THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION THREAD. If you want to talk about lootable coin, take it elsewhere.
8. Thornguard and her wolfy (mentioned already but just itemizing it)
9. Attack feats are all using the old Exp and Ability point advancement (base 40 exp instead of base 81 exp, requires 12 in ability score for feat level 3 instead of requiring 10 for feat level 3).
10. Weapon proficiencies are also back on the old exp advancement
I like you, but you have a bad habit of telling others what to do, stop that please.
Our stance on lootable currency has changed several times over the last couple of years. What we have now is hopefully the right compromise between fun risk and economic utility.
It is lootable until deposited. When you loot it from a goblin it is a coin. Once deposited it is a unit of credit equal to a coin, but no longer a physical object you can drop.
Wonderful news! Am I crazy or were they at first saying it would not be lootable (ever)?
5 and 6 are intentional, though they need a notification. This is part of our "tagging base" philosophy on turning your hard currency (which will eventually be lootable and have encumbrance) into credit that can be spent at any city.
We're looking into the rest of them.
Sorry if I'm confused? But I thought currency would not be lootable or have weight?
I confess, I'm not 100% certain it's holding me. At the moment, if I continue participating, I will probably aim for a resource gatherer for my settlement.
Can you add a parenthesis after each feat with an explanation of what it's used for such as: Feature Feet ("explanation of what feature feet is and why you need it")?
I know that would help with some confusion on what all these feats are actually for.
"Healer" should not be an effective combat style, for most of the same reasons that "stun-locking" should not be an effective combat style.
Having a full-time dedicated healer in small group combats just drags them out and reduces the number of viable tactics.
Having in-combat healers reduces the value of small incremental successes and instead makes massive burst damage the only effective tactic.
I never want to see an effective combat style in PFO that boils down to "I run around and make the hitpoint bars go back up."
My preference for healing effects is that they be rare, applied tactically, and turn the tide of battle based on the correct evaluation of when to commit those limited resources.
A lone Cleric facing a Fighter one on one should be thinking, "How do I use my status effects and the versatility of my expendables to offset the fighter's higher dps." They should never be thinking, "great, now I have to remember to throw a heal on myself every 4 seconds until this guy gets bored and walks away."
Seems like you've been burned by games with horrible healing systems.
I really hope PFO doesn't change to be more like other MMOs where healing can easily keep up with incoming damage, such that all tactical choices revolve around the presence or suppression of the healers.
I sympathize with you that love to play healers, but what I would really like to see in PFO is Clerics that in-combat, mostly do what all the other roles are doing... applying status effects to opponents and doing damage.
I'd like to see healing be done to remove long-term effects once the combat is over, and only occasionally throwing out a dispel or heal in combat.
To make Clerics more effective and valuable in combat, I'd like to see them have buff auras (not the current short term single target buffs), and to have better attack options than they currently have.
I don't want to see a role that is effective at reversing damage, and casts healing spells full time in combat.
Hit points should be seen as a non-renewable resource in combat, not as a pool for the cleric to keep refilling constantly.
My major PVP experience is with World of Warcraft, and I don't want to see anything that replicates the dynamic of healers being able to counteract any sustained dps, such that the only ways to get a pvp kill are burst damage or suppressing the healers.
Keep in-combat healing ineffective, and give the Cleric role something else useful to do.
I'm fine with that as long as I can do it from distance. :)
The thing I have the most problem with is all heals being "touch based" which pretty much pigeonholes the playstyle of a cleric to be melee oriented. It's my understanding in tabletop that heal spells are touch based, but perhaps for an MMO modification is in order?
I like choices, if I want to play a light DPS/healing caster I'd like that option (it's fun for me!); I really dislike playing a melee character. The developers in the past have said they don't want healers sitting in the back healing because "that's not fun." Psssh, says who?! What's not fun is running after allies to heal them as they flee from you and the enemy alike.
These are my humble opinions to share my viewpoint on a subject I care a lot about and are not meant to bash the developers or the hard work they have put into this game.
I have to agree that all healing spells being touch based is more annoying than anything. I usually play a healer but will not in this game considering how they currently work.
Well, without a monetary system all players are pretty much required to be a crafter. How can we buy goods from other players if there is no coin? Hehe.
During the first couple of weeks of EE, will Level 1 enemies be the main source* of +0 gear? I seem to recall a developer statement that there might be some NPC vendors selling the most basic starter gear. Maybe that idea changed into the NPCs who give away short bows, wands, and foci.
*A lot of +0 gear requires higher crafter levels than we're likely to see right away.
The difficulty, if we're not likely to see NPC vendors for weapons, armour, and consumables, is exactly the same as the observation Lee made about us voraciously over-harvesting everything in sight beyond the bounds of all expectation: we're doing the same to monsters. If those level 1 monsters are supposed to be the source for all new arrivals' equipment for all time, but "advanced" players continue to wipe out everything in sight simply because we can, how are newcomers going to get their gear from level 1 monsters?
Yes, I know people are going to have many ideas about those newcomers getting gear from other players, Companies, Settlements, and such, but if the level 1 monsters are *intended* to provide that gear, how are they expected to do so?
Newcomers cannot get starter gear from other players if they cannot make any money in the game.
Only having low level monsters provide gear seams like an error to me. It will do exactly as you say, keeping higher level players around farming them.
If all monsters have some form a drop, players will spread out.
The market for basic equipment will saturate either way.
I agree with with you on this Xeen. Though, I would like to add, I haven't paid much attention to how "coin" works. Will (or do adventurers already) receive coin from monsters? Or do monsters only drop things like recipes (other than starter gear)?
I replied to Ideascale, I just wanted to say I like this idea but I'd propose a slight alteration: I don't think you should be locked in place but rather if a player moves whilst casting their action is interrupted.
I don't like the idea of animations locking me in place but I'm fine with moving causing my spells to fail.
For the record, I completely agree that being required to click-target other players sucks - almost as much as having to manually aim sucks in a twitch game.
Not sure which person this was intended for but I was strictly referring to clicking in general, not tab targeting. I'm not sure if it is my computer, or what, but I can not actually "click" on a person to target them unless they are in extremely close proximity.
I'm with Xeen on this one, if I can't target another players in a sandbox/PVP MMO I don't think it can be considered a "minimum viable product." That's just my opinion...
I'm absolutely hoping they spend a bit more time adding augmenting the core functions before releasing EE.
I kinda hope they delay a month. I mean really, why not? Open the game with the full map, companies, UI fixes, proto settlements, basic animations for most actions, full tool tip, stand in icons, etc...
Start off on the right foot with something the hard core fanbase can be proud of.
I'm a bit late to the commenting - I've been working fairly insane hours so that I can take time off for the first week of EE - but the above is my preference as well.
I agree with Avari in Deianira but I will support Goblinworks and this project either way. However, I think it is definitely missing some core functions that make a MMORPG playable (like being able to click other players...)
Please, Lord, let someone artistic from Phaeros find a new icon soon. Also, Duffy announced in another thread that he'd changed his URL, introducing the new one for the Aeonian League.
Were you able to use a Wizard's Spellbook with 1st-5th level spells? If not, then you might not have gotten the full experience of Wizard 1-10.
No I did not, in fact I couldn't really grasp how things were working whilst playing, I haven't had time to study over feats and roles. I tried cramming all the knowledge I could from the guides and stuff for the 2 days of Alpha; that didn't work out too well for me!
I think the biggest thing was trying to understand if I was doing things wrong or if what I was doing was right but wasn't yet coded correctly in Alpha, if that makes sense?
It is expected that at EE class advancement will require any one armor feat and any one role feature, in addition to the attack and defense bonuses.
Hey Decius, can you elaborate on this for me? I think you're saying that in EE I will be able to choose Evangelist or Crusader and an armor feat unlike in Alpha 7.1 where it was locked for me?
Glory is required because testing roles, as far as I know Glory is the only one working right now. Once gods/domains are functioning well, it could be changed (it was said somewhere/sometime ago) for the variety of domains.
So, I actually played a Wizard this Alpha up to level 10; I don't think this role is for me. Cleric is my next hope, but I find myself confused on something: Crusader is a required feat to level up as a Cleric, which requires heavy armor for the keywords. But what about the Evangelist? Perhaps I want to go more of the healer or buffer type Cleric instead of being so melee focused, why do I have to waste points in Crusader?
TL;DR
Why is the Crusader feat mandatory for Clerics?
Thanks in advance!
EDIT:
And now I also see the Glory domain is required to level also. I'm not sure I understand why as Sarenrae would be the deity I wish to worship and according to what I've read her designated domains in Pathfinder Online are Sun and Fire?
Posted this originally on Alpha Forums but thought I would post it here too.
First Impressions
Ok, last night was my first time in Alpha and then I played again for a half hour before heading for work this morning. These are my impressions after sleeping on it.
I used the New Quick Start Guide since I wanted a mage anyways. Did something wrong or something was left out of the guide because I didn't get Mage 1. Ran back and forth between all the folks trying to figure out what I did wrong but finally just took all the schools of magic listed and just as I was about done with getting them all, then I got Mage 1. I did the F11 thing to see what Mage 1 needed and I had all that stuff listed but still didn't have the achievement, was listed as still in progress, before I finally just started buying all the schools of magic.
Couldn't read the Thornguards names, that blue was too dark and lettering was too small. I was in the Windowed version of the game for ease of going back to the quick start guide. I'm going to try the full screen version at a lower resolution to see if more things are readable then tonight.
Confusing to have the Thornguards in red and the goblins outside of town in red as well. Kept getting turned around to head for a Thornguard when I wanted to go after a goblin. Any way of making the Thornguards, I don't know - blue?, on the map screen and then turn red if they hate you and will kill you if they can?
I absolutely did not see the new player trainers at the beginning of where I logged in for the first time until an hour or more into the game. Can you put a glowing arrow or something over their heads so new players know to go talk to them? Or maybe have them hold up and wave signs saying "Tutorial Here!"? I also made a cleric that I didn't do much with except move around a bit. So I will have him try to deal with these folks when I get on tonight.
Combat was cool and I happen to love tab targeting! Moving was easy though it was a bit dizzying to have my guy continue to turn...
Yes the QuickStart guide for Wizard leaves out a few required feats to become Wizard 2. I can't remember which feats exactly but it's more than one.
@Leithlen - most of the crafting loop is already in the Alpha now. The only parts that aren't are a payment process and an item destruction process. As soon as people can do more than barter I think the economy will take off. And when stuff starts getting destroyed, it will really take off.
In the Alpha, today, you can harvest, transport resources to a Settlement, process the resources into intermediate crafting materials, and craft finished goods. Those goods are usable immediately by characters and are valuable if they have trained feats to match the keywords on the items crafted. That all works right now.
As to social, I see three things happening.
First is kind of a loosely organized effort where some people will want to be crafter/merchants and some people will want to be adventurers. The adventurers are going to come back with coin, with crafting components, and with recipes. The crafter/merchants are going to be able to take the recipes and components and turn them into better items for the adventurers. The coin should be the medium of exchange. A group playing together will be better at this at first than random players because the group will be able to set objectives (we need more iron and coal) and the random players will likely be all over the map not matching needs to inputs. (A market will quickly develop and arbitrage will level that imbalance but until it does the cohesive groups will have an advantage).
Second is War of Towers. This is going to provide an engine for a lot of the early Early Enrollment activity. Trying to take and hold Towers will benefit the initial PC Settlements. They'll need a lot of economic activity to support that effort, and specialist PvP characters too. The amount of emergent social behavior in this one system is almost limitless. I can't predict what will happen but I am pretty confident it will be epic.
Third is longer-range planning of people thinking about how to play the Kingdom Game as more systems get added and we move towards real...
The point Leithlen is trying to convey (I think) is there doesn't seem to be enough core functions implemented to begin EE. You can barely target things, it's hard to comprehend what's going on when playing and the UI is, hmm, in need of improvement. Are any of these things a game killer? Of course not. But perhaps EE being released in September is a bit premature when there are many MVP areas in need of heavy modification.
I'd like my friends to be somewhat impressed by the functions and depth in EE; I just don't think that would happen as of now. Hopefully the next two builds will change my mind!
EE..... yeah I agree a lot needs to be fixed before then. I'd rather it stay in alpha until combat is more balanced, tool tips in and various other items fixed. If people are paying to get in and are unhappy about, likely they wont stay. If they have to wait a little longer but are satisfied, then you haven't lost much.
I agree... The current minimum viable product is a'bit too minimum for me.
I received my Alpha invite this weekend(Thanks, Caliphis!)and I thought I'd add my comments to the list.
My first impression was the same as most: No tooltips, tutorials, and an overwhelmingly large number of choices for spending XP with next to no in-game information. Add in tool-tips, have the boxes pop-up in front of open windows showing needed/required prerequisites, and skill info, along with color-coding to separate the different skills into their respective categories, and a way to separate skills into primary/secondary/defensive/reactive/etc. categories.
My second impression was how difficult it was to target outside of using the tab key.
My next overall awakening came as I was randomly attacked in town by a PC Wizard(who happened to be "nude"). I had just freshly leveled the rogue toon I was experimenting with to just shy of Level 8, focusing solely on ranged combat and the prerequisite rogue talents to reach Rogue 7. I was, however, equipped only with the equipment I spawned with. Despite using my hardest hitting skill(which I found later could nearly one-shot an Alpha Wolf, and did one-shot a bandit with later) I did ABSOLUTELY NO discernible DAMAGE to my Wizard attacker. I assume that he was categorically not much higher in level, and was at least not wearing any clothing type gear. I recall a blog quite awhile back that said that power creep was going to be negligible. and like leveled characters should have an equal chance to win in a fight(it mentioned a group of level ones having the ability to take down a Level 20 toon if they fought in coordination), but there wasn't any thing like that here. Either his other equipped gear outstripped mine to such an egregious extent as to offer him juggernaut status, or the wizard class is exceptionally overpowered.
Stealth- I like the way it is implemented; the detached wig floating through the forest is slightly humorous, but even at the highest skill I was able to achieve(Stealth 8, Scout 8, 18 Dex; Stealth skill at 101)I was never able to...
-Names not being over players' and npcs' heads is very annoying. I don't want to have to click a million trainers just to figure out what they train.
You will quickly learn who trains what and your settlement will surely place related trainers near to one another so there is less running clear across town to train a related feat.
Having name tags over the heads of players would be very annoying to me. Bad enough that you can click on them and see it together with their reputation icon, but at least if I'm in the distance you won't be able to identify immediately whether I am red or blue and I have at least a chance to escape notice if you're hostile, so long as we don't get so close that the minimap gives away my position.
Putting a big sign over your head should only happen at the airport.
I wouldn't mind having names over just the heads of NPCs.
EDIT: If they do decide to not show names of players I hope there will be some sort of character customization (guild tabards) so deciphering an enemy in a huge battle doesn't become a clicking/tabbing cluster f***.
Seems like a good place to also add my experience. :)
Played less than 2:30 hours on Thursday 8/22/14; Alpha Build 6.
Selected a male fighter to start with.
Logged in to game with absolutely no problem (thank the heavens!), proceeded to run around Seoni statue and get bonus XP (as per Alpha Instruction doc). Spent 15-20 minutes learning how to move and understand GUI.
Did some training, OVERWHELMEND with choices and FUSTRATED at lack of information/tool tips (I had a Tablet open to TEO Cheatles Guide, and I still couldn't figure things out).
First combat with Goblins wasn't very ....heroic... killed them after lots of trial and error.
Learned to gather nodes, type in chat (thanks Nihimon!), read the map, and to stealth pass zombies ...err... enemies.
First Impression: the roads are INFESETED with enemies, and that wasn't even inside escalation hexes.
First Death: Got killed by a God-Mode-On immortal teleporting/phasing wolf that hit me 10 times for every 1 hit I got in, it had 1% HP left, I swear it was a messenger of death!
Bug: Changed the settings from Fastest to Fast, screen got all messed up, would not switch back to previous settings.
Overall: Did not actually have fun, felt more like work, was unable to slot feats that I purchased, I understand its Alpha, really looking forward to builds 7 and 8!
This was almost exactly my experience. I will add:
-Combat is clunky and unresponsive
-Names not being over players' and npcs' heads is very annoying. I don't want to have to click a million trainers just to figure out what they train.
-Clicking monsters seems somewhat bugged, used tab to get around this.
-It's difficult to understand if you are flagged or not. Apparently I attacked a fellow player in town and the guards kept killing me over and over until I logged out.
-Training and leveling up is very, very, VERY cryptic. Allowing "classes" to train at all class trainers promotes confusion. Perhaps color coding things per class or disallowing training that "makes no sense" would be a good step. ***this was the most frustrating issue and led me to eventually log out unhappily.
OVERALL I honestly did not enjoy my experience and in my opinion September for EE (unless these next 2 Alphas are God incarnate) seems very premature. I just don't see the current features providing an interesting gaming experience. I'm a tough critic, sorry.
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Statistics
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Str 5, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 7, Wis 11, Cha 16
Base Atk +0; CMB -3; CMD 12
Languages: Common, Sylvan
You can precisely mimic the physical features of any individual you have encountered. When you use your racial change shape ability, you can attempt to take the form of an individual, granting you a +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks made to fool others with your impersonation.
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Traits
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Disillusioned (Combat)
Your childhood was ended by a great disaster or atrocity that you witnessed. To cope with the horror, you have learned to reflexively suppress all emotion. You gain a +2 trait bonus on Will saving throws against emotion and fear effects.
Orphan (Regional)
You grew up in an orphanage. Whether or not you took to their teachings, your strict indoctrination has toughened your body against punishment. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Fortitude saves.
Class Features/Special Abilities/Racial Traits (Kitsune):
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Class Features
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Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
Rogues are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, short sword, and shortbow. They are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.
Hidden Blade
A knife master adds 1/2 her level on Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal a light blade. (This ability replaces trapfinding.)
Sneak Stab (Ex)
A knife master focuses her ability to deal sneak attack damage with daggers and similar weapons to such a degree that she can deal more sneak attack damage with those weapons at the expense of sneak attacks with other weapons. When she makes a sneak attack with a dagger, kerambit, kukri, punching daggers, starknife, or swordbreaker dagger, she uses d8s to roll sneak attack damage instead of d6s. For sneak attacks with all other weapons, she uses d4s instead of d6s.
Finesse Training (Ex)
At 1st level, a rogue gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat.
Sneak Attack: 1d6
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Special Abilities
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Change Shape (Su) [Realistic Likeness]
You can precisely mimic the physical features of any individual you have encountered. When you use your racial change shape ability, you can attempt to take the form of an individual, granting you a +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks made to fool others with your impersonation. A kitsune in human form cannot use her bite attack, but gains a +10 racial bonus on Disguise checks made to appear human. Changing shape is a standardmove action. This ability otherwise functions as alter self, except that the kitsune does not adjust her ability scores.
Fast Shifter (Su) You were born with an innate talent for switching between your natural forms. Using your racial change shape ability is a move action instead of a standard action.
Ability Score Racial Traits: Kitsune are agile and companionable, but tend to be physically weak. They gain +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, and –2 Strength
Size: Kitsune are Medium creatures and thus have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Languages: Kitsune begin play speaking Common and Sylvan.
Agile (Ex) Kitsune receive a +2 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks.
Offense Racial Traits
Natural Weapons (Ex) In her natural form, a kitsune has a bite attack that deals 1d4 points of damage.
Background Story:
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Background Story
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Life is hard for an orphaned waif, and Lyanif was no exception. But then the priests had found her. The orphanage they placed her in wasn't a kind institution, but it was better than the streets. Or so they kept repeating. She usually stayed out of trouble, not because she didn't break any rules, but because she was fast enough to not get caught. And when that failed her, she would pretend to be someone else. Of course, that only worked when the person she was pretending to be wasn't in trouble to begin with.
Over time, the handful of other undesirables she called friends discovered her ability and it became one of her chief commodities. A beating taken in place of someone would buy two days of chores. A few pinched coins and some clothes bought an afternoon of traipsing around shops as some merchant's daughter or son. Not in front of said merchant, not more than once, maybe twice. She definitely wouldn't have considered trying to convince the merchant that she was his son and not that brat with the stupid look on his face. She didn't considered it in fact, not because it was a ridiculous plan with slim chance of success, but because she didn't consider most things.
All of that ended when the orphanage burned to the ground, with most of her friends inside. The fire had swept over the entirety of the already impoverished area leaving yet more devastation in its wake. It had been an almost accident; a group of young nobles had started a bonfire in a coming-of-age celebration. Lyanif would never forget the sound of their revelry as her world burned to the ground.
Very little political maneuvering was necessary to protect the nobles offspring. They had faced no punishment, no fines, nothing. The fire was spun as a positive incident, a chance for growth. Fines were leveled by those nobles against the very workers whose homes were now destroyed.
A few years later Lyanif joined the Liberty's Edge faction and began training as a part of the Pathfinder society.
[Need to reword this later, but it's 5 in the morning]
Dark cloak over quilted armor. Rust-red fur. Usually presents as a human female of the same age with the same hair color. Mischievous dark humor burns in her eyes.
