To be quite honest, I preceded this post with a massive verbal rant on my thoughts on healing in MMO's and so on, then decided against it before I clarify some facts.
Been following PFO for over a year, my one concern (due to my preference of playstyle) is how Healing works in game at the moment. As I don't have access to Alpha and no one seems to Twitch stream as a healer, my latest info is months old.
1) Is healing still almost completely touch-based?
2) Are heals still sparse/mostly just curing wound debuffs?
3) Do full clerics have at least SOME potency as main healing/off dps?
4) Dear lord, why!?!
5) Are Devs at all interested in moving away from this method?
Ok, so that last one is that rant coming out in me again. I've played a lot of MMO's, I know my preferred playstyle is as a dedicated healer in both PvE and PvP. I also know from experience that Pathfinder PnP healing can be a downright bitter experience, especially at low levels.
Thanks in advance!
(On a side note, I don't usually go for pre-game guild planning, but any Companies looking for a Healer/Raid Leader? I'll be gunning for Healing and party-leadership talents in game and can explain my background if requested.)
Goblin Squad Member
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The Keepers of the Circle have an entire sub-group, the Ring of Light, that is focused on healing. I'm sure many of them share your concern that healing be a meaningful role choice in the game. There are certainly issues right now--with the targeting system it's very easy to heal the bad guys...a Party-based heal system would be fabulous. That said, I have seen the healing be quite potent/useful at least in the PvE experience so far.
I'll be happy to shoot you an Alpha access if you PM me your email.
Squaring the Circle,
Erian El'ranelen, Guardian of Gold
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Yeah, we still have plenty of Alpha Invites to pass out.
Speaking as a Primary Healer, I find that healing is just barely good enough to not be 100% ineffective, while making it a challenge and quite... different a few to healing than other MMO's I've seen.
I think the main problem right now is that Spells for ANY given caster Role are so incredibly rare to drop that nobody really even gets to test them out unless they have a TON of freetime or are highly networked into the Alpha community. Once PCs can choose from a reasonably stocked market of Spells to buy I'm sure there will be better Healing Spells available,
as right now the only one that everyone has access to is an oorsion, and a piddly little effect, not that you could tell with how incredibly loud the spell is.
1) Yes
2) Not really
3) If you want to do damage in the Alpha you need to either pick up a bow, or spend the XP to get Wizard spells. I use a bow for my secondary weapon as I find it to be less XP intensive. In either case you pretty much have to pick 1 thing to do at a time, and hope it works out. Sure I can switch off my bow if I'm too low on health, but I'd probably die just as fast as if I just kept shooting.
4) It's Alpha, I'm confident healing will be brought to par in short order.
5) Your guess is as good as mine, but there ARE ranged healing effects they can pull from, but until we have access to more Spells we wont be able to test the effects.
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Goblin Squad Member
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(On a side note, I don't usually go for pre-game guild planning, but any Companies looking for a Healer/Raid Leader? I'll be gunning for Healing and party-leadership talents in game and can explain my background if requested.)
We'd love to have you in Sunholm. In my experience, players willing to lead are some of the hardest to find (and tend to be some of the best). We boast Cleric training in-settlement, as well as access to a full roster of training among our allies (and a market just three hexes away!). We are a NG settlement with interest as diverse as our membership.
There are a number of companies you can join - I lead the Torchbearers based in ANZAC TZ, but we also have two NA companies and a Greek contingent. If nothing else, there should always be someone around. :) Give us a look!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah, we still have plenty of Alpha Invites to pass out.
Speaking as a Primary Healer, I find that healing is just barely good enough to not be 100% ineffective, while making it a challenge and quite... different a few to healing than other MMO's I've seen.
I think the main problem right now is that Spells for ANY given caster Role are so incredibly rare to drop that nobody really even gets to test them out unless they have a TON of freetime or are highly networked into the Alpha community. Once PCs can choose from a reasonably stocked market of Spells to buy I'm sure there will be better Healing Spells available,
as right now the only one that everyone has access to is an oorsion, and a piddly little effect, not that you could tell with how incredibly loud the spell is.1) Yes
2) Not really
3) If you want to do damage in the Alpha you need to either pick up a bow, or spend the XP to get Wizard spells. I use a bow for my secondary weapon as I find it to be less XP intensive. In either case you pretty much have to pick 1 thing to do at a time, and hope it works out. Sure I can switch off my bow if I'm too low on health, but I'd probably die just as fast as if I just kept shooting.
4) It's Alpha, I'm confident healing will be brought to par in short order.
5) Your guess is as good as mine, but there ARE ranged healing effects they can pull from, but until we have access to more Spells we wont be able to test the effects.
Heck I did't even know spells dropped. I thought there were just the spells from the trainer.
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I thought there were just the spells from the trainer.
The thing is, they are all grouped under "Implement Actions" and are dropped (Seemingly) on the same rate and frequency that ANY given recipe does. Given we don't know anything about recipe drops, maybe that complicates things but all I know is that you either have to be at it for many hours, or get lucky to get ANY kind of Implement Action drop that will either be useful to you, or can be used at all in the case you are in a group with someone.
Keep in mind I've only switched to the starter shortbow our of desperation, but I feel like SOMETHING has to be done about training at least a few "Common" or "Starter" level 1 spells, since at the current time, 99% of the people who want to try out an Implement Action simply cannot.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well as a healer,
There is a Role feature Feat called healer for clerics to boast that role.
As has been said before Targeting is an issue atm.
It keeps happening that you use attack spells on party members or heals on Mobs cause your target switches to something that crosses you line of sight.
Less of an issue if you only heal/buff and something that will change for the better once it is patched away.
Apart from that, having a partymember in front of you that tries to flee from mobs but keeps getting hit and falling down dying and
KEEPING HIm/HER ALIVE AND MOVING away one step at a time fells awesome :D
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would tend to be vocal about my dissatisfaction with the way the cleric role underperforms in the current iteration of the game, but I urge caution that many systems are not yet implemented which could alter net cleric performance.
What those unimplemented systems might be... I have no freaking clue, brother, but that is the explanation for several features that would otherwise be considered broken, so I think we should assume that is the case here as well.
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I just started playing Alpha 8 last week, and I have a lot of the same concerns (some of which I already posted and did receive some good advice!). My preferred role is also cleric in both PnP and MMOs. I prefer to heal and support. Dishing out damage just hasn't interested me as much.
I've played Ultima Online, but can't remember it well enough to compare to PFO. I most recently came from DDO where combat and healing is MUCH different than PFO, and I’ve been struggling. So far I've managed to heal a bad guy and attack myself (which flagged me as an aggressor). I hope attacking myself is a bug. I've also watched my poor husband die numerous times because I couldn't heal him fast enough. But I think that's mostly due to the fact that I only have the one healing Orison.
Touch range healing is really new to me, but I think I'm getting better with practice. Right now I think there will need to be very good coordination and communication between healers and other players.
Thanks to advice from others on the boards (thank you to KoTC Edam Neadenil and T7V Jazzlvraz), I've had pretty good luck killing guys with combinations of Doom, Bleeding Touch, Holy Lance, and Touch of Darkness. I keep focusing on this because I’m trying to get the Divine 6 achievement so I can gain a level. Is there any other way to get Divine achievements in the Alpha?
I can’t say that I love things right now, but I seem to be getting better the more I play. I haven’t joined a company yet, so I hope all my posts about struggling won’t make people scared to let me join! ;-)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Is there any other way to get Divine achievements in the Alpha?
[Off-topic to the thread]
At present, Divine achievement-counters can be incremented only by:
- landing the killing blow on a Monster with an Orison cast through one's Focus, or
- performing either of two appropriately-typed Escalation activities
Escalations are, in my experience, very much group-related activities, as the monsters seem to appear in larger packs, and those packs in higher densities. For someone still building a support-network in-game, that might leave only doing damage as an option.
We've no way to know whether other options for increasing Divine Achievements will appear in future patches.
[End off-topic]
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Goblin Squad Member
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The thing I have the most problem with is all heals being "touch based" which pretty much pigeonholes the playstyle of a cleric to be melee oriented. It's my understanding in tabletop that heal spells are touch based, but perhaps for an MMO modification is in order?
I like choices, if I want to play a light DPS/healing caster I'd like that option (it's fun for me!); I really dislike playing a melee character. The developers in the past have said they don't want healers sitting in the back healing because "that's not fun." Psssh, says who?! What's not fun is running after allies to heal them as they flee from you and the enemy alike.
These are my humble opinions to share my viewpoint on a subject I care a lot about and are not meant to bash the developers or the hard work they have put into this game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If nothing else, the current systems have the potential to increase demand for Clerics, as each character--especially each character who both moves in combat and regularly takes significant damage--pretty much needs his own dedicated healer. One Cleric alone might notice a group-member taking damage, and one can use an F-key to change to that target (drive-by healing's not too likely to happen until targetting changes), but she then also has to have enough situational awareness and mobility to get to the target while healing's still needed.
I've not yet seen any Cleric spells, so how things change when Clerics are using anything other than orisons is outside my experience.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really hope PFO doesn't change to be more like other MMOs where healing can easily keep up with incoming damage, such that all tactical choices revolve around the presence or suppression of the healers.
I sympathize with you that love to play healers, but what I would really like to see in PFO is Clerics that in-combat, mostly do what all the other roles are doing... applying status effects to opponents and doing damage.
I'd like to see healing be done to remove long-term effects once the combat is over, and only occasionally throwing out a dispel or heal in combat.
To make Clerics more effective and valuable in combat, I'd like to see them have buff auras (not the current short term single target buffs), and to have better attack options than they currently have.
I don't want to see a role that is effective at reversing damage, and casts healing spells full time in combat.
Hit points should be seen as a non-renewable resource in combat, not as a pool for the cleric to keep refilling constantly.
My major PVP experience is with World of Warcraft, and I don't want to see anything that replicates the dynamic of healers being able to counteract any sustained dps, such that the only ways to get a pvp kill are burst damage or suppressing the healers.
Keep in-combat healing ineffective, and give the Cleric role something else useful to do.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really hope PFO doesn't change to be more like other MMOs where healing can easily keep up with incoming damage, such that all tactical choices revolve around the presence or suppression of the healers.
I sympathize with you that love to play healers, but what I would really like to see in PFO is Clerics that in-combat, mostly do what all the other roles are doing... applying status effects to opponents and doing damage.
I'd like to see healing be done to remove long-term effects once the combat is over, and only occasionally throwing out a dispel or heal in combat.
To make Clerics more effective and valuable in combat, I'd like to see them have buff auras (not the current short term single target buffs), and to have better attack options than they currently have.
I don't want to see a role that is effective at reversing damage, and casts healing spells full time in combat.
Hit points should be seen as a non-renewable resource in combat, not as a pool for the cleric to keep refilling constantly.My major PVP experience is with World of Warcraft, and I don't want to see anything that replicates the dynamic of healers being able to counteract any sustained dps, such that the only ways to get a pvp kill are burst damage or suppressing the healers.
Keep in-combat healing ineffective, and give the Cleric role something else useful to do.
I'm fine with that as long as I can do it from distance. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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...I'd like to see them have buff auras...
Clerics have three orisons--Bane, Bless, and Inspiring Word--that are "Burst to Self" and affect multiple nearby targets; they're as close as we have to auras at present. Given the pace of combat, the risk of affecting friendlies with Bane or enemies with Bless or Inspiring Word, and the lack of effects that need much post-combat management, it's hard to think when those orisons might be useful.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As early as build 7 (1st week), while on a group venture vs. an escalation, there was a healer that was awesome and effective in my group. I can't recall the character name, but they did a pretty good job.
It is possible. :)
Moridian was absolutely phenomenal, even with folks outside of his group. It really made me wish I'd be more likely to play the same hours as him more often :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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One of the challenges for PFO is to distinguish itself from the multitude of MMO's out there without alienating potential customers. I've been a dedicated healer in the past and I'm interested in how they are trying to bring some elements from the tabletop game into what has become standard play options for MMO's. And not just for clerics, but other classes (will actions impact alignment for paladins, will rogues be able to pickpocket/steal, and oh dear God the bard... etc.).
Caveat: I don't plan on playing cleric in PFO but not due to mechanics, time for something different.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...I'm sure there will be better Healing Spells available, as right now the only one that everyone has access to is an orsion, and a piddly little effect, not that you could tell with how incredibly loud the spell is.
+1 to that!
3) If you want to do damage in the Alpha you need to either pick up a bow, or spend the XP to get Wizard spells. I use a bow for my secondary weapon as I find it to be less XP intensive.
Bah! Commmmon Carbone! You know that's not perfectly true: you've seen me do pretty damn alright with melee. ;)
4) It's Alpha, I'm confident healing will be brought to par in short order.
+1 to this, too.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really hope PFO doesn't change to be more like other MMOs where healing can easily keep up with incoming damage, such that all tactical choices revolve around the presence or suppression of the healers.
I sympathize with you that love to play healers, but what I would really like to see in PFO is Clerics that in-combat, mostly do what all the other roles are doing... applying status effects to opponents and doing damage.
I'd like to see healing be done to remove long-term effects once the combat is over, and only occasionally throwing out a dispel or heal in combat.
To make Clerics more effective and valuable in combat, I'd like to see them have buff auras (not the current short term single target buffs), and to have better attack options than they currently have.
I don't want to see a role that is effective at reversing damage, and casts healing spells full time in combat.
Hit points should be seen as a non-renewable resource in combat, not as a pool for the cleric to keep refilling constantly.My major PVP experience is with World of Warcraft, and I don't want to see anything that replicates the dynamic of healers being able to counteract any sustained dps, such that the only ways to get a pvp kill are burst damage or suppressing the healers.
Keep in-combat healing ineffective, and give the Cleric role something else useful to do.
Couldn't agree with this more.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really hope PFO doesn't change to be more like other MMOs where healing can easily keep up with incoming damage, such that all tactical choices revolve around the presence or suppression of the healers.
I sympathize with you that love to play healers, but what I would really like to see in PFO is Clerics that in-combat, mostly do what all the other roles are doing... applying status effects to opponents and doing damage.
I'd like to see healing be done to remove long-term effects once the combat is over, and only occasionally throwing out a dispel or heal in combat.
To make Clerics more effective and valuable in combat, I'd like to see them have buff auras (not the current short term single target buffs), and to have better attack options than they currently have.
I don't want to see a role that is effective at reversing damage, and casts healing spells full time in combat.
Hit points should be seen as a non-renewable resource in combat, not as a pool for the cleric to keep refilling constantly.My major PVP experience is with World of Warcraft, and I don't want to see anything that replicates the dynamic of healers being able to counteract any sustained dps, such that the only ways to get a pvp kill are burst damage or suppressing the healers.
Keep in-combat healing ineffective, and give the Cleric role something else useful to do.
+1
The promise that I won't just by watching health bars is one of the main reasons I'm leaning Cleric.
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Goblin Squad Member
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1) Is healing still almost completely touch-based?
2) Are heals still sparse/mostly just curing wound debuffs?
3) Do full clerics have at least SOME potency as main healing/off dps?
4) Dear lord, why!?!
5) Are Devs at all interested in moving away from this method?
1 - Yes, but I want to mention that there are ranged healing spells, three of them to be exact. Not only this, but there is also Channel energy that will be added to the game.
Basically, there will be some ranged healing.
2 - There is HP heals, and then there are two types of buffs, buffs that give you mechanical bonuses, and those that give you defensive stacks. The stacks help against status effects.
3 - I think that once we get a month or so in game Clerics will be much, much better. I think they are suffering from the early game just like the Table Top Clerics. What most people don't realize is that Clerics actually have some very nasty attacks in the form of spells, their healing and DPS will get better.
4 - Because they are trying to emulate the table top.
5 - I don't think so.
Once everything is implemented and enough spells have dropped, then we are going to see all classes getting much more powerful, as well as gaining more tactics to use in combat.
Personally, I believe healing and melee ranges should be extended to 2-3m to initiate, and 7m to finish.
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Thanks for all the responses folks, while I'm not overjoyed at all of the answers I definitely am happier than I was before some of my facts were clarified.
The responses to this thread I take immense issue with are the thoughts concerning how 'life total' healing seems to be viewed as a non-dynamic gameplay element.
I firmly believe that a healer should ABSOLUTELY be able to put out heals-per-second similar to another character's Damage-per-second if they are of equal XP and skill. Now, in saying that I should point out that as Damage abilities are increased on a healer, that equality should certainly skew, but in a pure Damage vs. pure Healing situation they should be on par. Why? Well why should someone be able to simply out damage my healing?
The necessity of planning around healers in group PvP is the same as the necessity of targeting down Crowd Controllers is the same as bursting down casters before armored tanks is the same as kiting opposing melee. Saying that healers are the be-all and end-all tactics in PvP is just false.
I'm a former WoW guy too, but I think I had a very different experience than most people. I was second in command of a (fully active) 500 person World PvP guild during BC and Wrath expansions, so before Guild Perks and the rush for large guild numbers. I've sacked the Stormwind trade district with less than 30 brothers during peak server time. I've slain the 4 Alliance leaders in under 30 minutes, I've kept the Alliance from winning the weekly Fishing tournies for over a year and I've fought over every territory possible in that game. I've participated in everything from a fast escalation after a single gank to leading hundreds of Horde players, guild and non-guild alike, across multiple raid groups into battle-line combat against an equal number of Alliance.
I didn't do these things because I had better healers, or more healers. Whether it's two on two or 100 on 100, there is ALWAYS more to gameplay than just who has more heals. Thinking that ONE variable of a complex system demands all attention be payed to it is both simplifying and aggrandizing what Healers are.
When it comes down to it, if one side has 2 DPS and the other has 1 DPS and 1 Healer, they should still remain even because a Healer should have the opportunity to be as effective at their chosen playstyle as a Caster or a Melee damage dealer. If the 2 dps side feel they need to punch the Healer first, then fine, the Healer/Dps side might decide to kill the caster on the other side first too.
I hope none of this has come across as aggressive as it probably has, but there are few things in gaming that I have a passion for and I've seen WAY too many games with crappy Healing mechanics that I just don't want PFO to go the same way without my having said my two cents.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Leave the WoW mindset behind.
"Healer" should not be an effective combat style, for most of the same reasons that "stun-locking" should not be an effective combat style.
Having a full-time dedicated healer in small group combats just drags them out and reduces the number of viable tactics.
Having in-combat healers reduces the value of small incremental successes and instead makes massive burst damage the only effective tactic.
I never want to see an effective combat style in PFO that boils down to "I run around and make the hitpoint bars go back up."
My preference for healing effects is that they be rare, applied tactically, and turn the tide of battle based on the correct evaluation of when to commit those limited resources.
A lone Cleric facing a Fighter one on one should be thinking, "How do I use my status effects and the versatility of my expendables to offset the fighter's higher dps." They should never be thinking, "great, now I have to remember to throw a heal on myself every 4 seconds until this guy gets bored and walks away."
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Goblin Squad Member
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...applied tactically, and turn the tide of battle based on the correct evaluation of when to commit those limited resources.
With the speed of character and monster movement, and the short length of buffs and debuffs, how does that work? I freely admit I've no experience in scrums such as PFO creates, so I'm trying to learn.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Leave the WoW mindset behind.
"Healer" should not be an effective combat style, for most of the same reasons that "stun-locking" should not be an effective combat style.
Having a full-time dedicated healer in small group combats just drags them out and reduces the number of viable tactics.
Having in-combat healers reduces the value of small incremental successes and instead makes massive burst damage the only effective tactic.
I never want to see an effective combat style in PFO that boils down to "I run around and make the hitpoint bars go back up."
My preference for healing effects is that they be rare, applied tactically, and turn the tide of battle based on the correct evaluation of when to commit those limited resources.
A lone Cleric facing a Fighter one on one should be thinking, "How do I use my status effects and the versatility of my expendables to offset the fighter's higher dps." They should never be thinking, "great, now I have to remember to throw a heal on myself every 4 seconds until this guy gets bored and walks away."
Seems like you've been burned by games with horrible healing systems.
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4 - Because they are trying to emulate the table top.
I've seen this tossed out there for the idea of touch-based healing on more than one occasion (so don't take this as me pointing at you, you just provided a good quote for this thread)...
That's great, it is. But...not everything about a tabletop game translates well to an MMO.
Pathfinder tabletop has turn based actions with grid based movement. The MMO is real time and is not confined to a grid. This means that moving into touch range and healing is more problematic than the tabletop equivalent.
Also, the "trying to emulate the tabletop" excuse seems to be tossed around as is convenient. In my table top games monsters drop loot, coin can be used to buy equipment, there are classes, and XP isn't earned at a static rate. They went away from "emulating" Pathfinder a long time ago. If we can cherry pick those things, we can cherry pick touch based healing...
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Goblin Squad Member
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...applied tactically, and turn the tide of battle based on the correct evaluation of when to commit those limited resources.With the speed of character and monster movement, and the short length of buffs and debuffs, how does that work? I freely admit I've no experience in scrums such as PFO creates, so I'm trying to learn.
I'm dreaming, not describing my experience in the Alpha :)
To elaborate, my ideal would be for a Cleric to cast one timely dispel magic or freedom of movement that gave the Rogue the chance to land a killing blow, instead of constantly spamming small heals.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Seems like you've been burned by games with horrible healing systems.
I actually really enjoyed healing in WoW, I did progression raiding and arena PVP as both a resto druid and a holy paladin, and it was fun.
But.. I recognize how allowing that sort of constant "refill all the health bars all the time" style of healing severely constrains the opportunities for tactical combats, and I don't want to see it duplicated in PFO.
One thing I like about tabletop pathfinder is that it is rarely effective to have a character casting healing abilities repeatedly round after round, instead the choice to use your limited actions on a healing ability is made carefully and in times of great need.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But.. I recognize how allowing that sort of constant "refill all the health bars all the time" style of healing severely constrains the opportunities for tactical combats, and I don't want to see it duplicated in PFO.
Indeed.
The reason I never liked Diablo is because it felt to me like it was all about keeping your bubbles full with potions.
The reason I never liked Guild Wars is because it felt to me like it was all about keeping your bubbles filling with effects.
I'd be quite happy if it were simply impossible to heal any Character in a single Encounter for more Hit Points than they have. I'd be thrilled if that cap were actually more like 1/3 of their total Hit Points.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I found an interesting article/blog/jot he wrote in 2003 about the value of hit points and how Clerics as D&Dified don't respect them adequately.
http://www.jonathantweet.com/jotgamehitpoints.html
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Specifically, that article addresses 3.0 turn undead and heal, neither of which care about hit points. 3.0 heal basically restored the target to max hp -1d4, and turn undead was a one-shot defeat or nothing.
The entire discussion if save-or-due gameplay has been done to death, raised, killed again, animated, destroyed, buried, reanimated, &etc. too many times to count.
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CEO, Goblinworks
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TBH, for the most part we don't talk about too many changes to game designs. The designers work on them as a group and have individual responsibilities and they are in charge of that stuff.
Occasionally something rises above the general daily struggle to make forward progress and we do end up having a meeting to discuss it but usually those things are pretty dramatic.
Thus far healing has not reached that point of drama. We are pretty much focused right now on getting "minimum" implementations of key features to work, and the healing feature works so it's not drawing a lot of attention.
We are and will remain interested in your feedback though especially when we get some more real-world play experience and more players are able to use the stuff that is already in the game but isn't widely available due to the lack of a market.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm not sure I understand your question; are you asking about the three "Mass" AOE healing spells? Minor Cure is a melee orison, thus it won't be affected by changes to ranged abilities; all healing spells except those three "Mass"es are also melee, so they won't be affected.
I am curious about those three AOEs, though; it will be a while before anyone has the level 5 Mass Lesser Cure and we can test it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I hope none of this has come across as aggressive as it probably has...
Maybe I'm getting senile but none of that came across as aggressive to me. Seemed like a journalistic report of your observations.
Other hand my context is fresh off a Philadelphia commute, so someones mileage may vary...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Channel Positive Energy/Divine/Holy Symbol Implement P/Power/WIS
I think once the above Utility is in the game, people will be happier, well if it works similar to the TT mechanic. Essentially this is a burst heal out from the cleric to all nearby party members. With it being a Utility it gives you a lot more options.
There seems to be 3 Spells for Melee Healing, and 3 Spells for Ranged Healing. It would be interesting to have the Channel Positive Energy to balance out the Minor Cure.
By the way, I got that from the Spread Sheets, so it is either already in or at least planned to go in.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm not a healer. We have had healers in our parties in Alpha 8 who have been quite successful at (a) keeping characters alive despite enemy attacks and pursuit and (b) saving downed characters before they bled out. Both of these actions help the party stay in the fight against PvE escalations. I think it will be more of a challenge to use healers in PvP, but I think many things will be more of a challenge in PvP.
Leave the WoW mindset behind.
"Healer" should not be an effective combat style, for most of the same reasons that "stun-locking" should not be an effective combat style
Why? Why should I set aside the best representation of Healing game play on the market? Sure, it's had ups and downs but until a new system is PROVEN to be better, WoW will always be the key comparison of game play elements. The only other feasible comparison would be EVE for the economic markets.
"Caster" shouldn't be an effective combat style in my opinion, that doesn't mean other people don't want to see it. I hate getting obliterated from range while being run around by CC effects, so classic PnP crowd control roles shouldn't be in the game either?
I've already stated my background on PvP, so all I can say is from that experience you are just wrong about small group engagements. I play games to Play, not to spend 15 seconds fighting to determine a winner. Attrition is a viable tactic.
As this thread has progressed I've continued to be pleasantly surprised at the outlook of healing moving forward as things have been clarified for me. I hope, especially when other class archetypes release like the Bard, healing will get a closer look from Dance and Co. But for now I fully understand the need for minimum viable product and the many things PFO needs for core game function. I would argue Healing is tier two necessity, but that's just me.
As for not being aggressive, I guess that's good to hear. My new job in Labour Relations must be rubbing off on my Internet rants... hmm, maybe I should kick it up a notch.