Kasoh wrote:
Thank you Kasoh. Actually a fighter/druid Lancer with Animal companion mount does sound like a pretty interesting character in general.
Did the lance gain any mounted combat special rules in the full text block, or any other changes to the lance? Is spear crit still weaken 1? I am interested in a mobility based spear fighter and it looks like using the lance as a 2 handed spear with the option to drop back to a regular spear and shield if defense is needed. To that end is there a fighter spring attack type feat that would help support the builds mobility and chance to hit?
87
Ever wonder who builds the impressive stone circles, or houses that look like living trees . . . and still are. This guy that's who. He travels around the world taking contracts to sculpt and build major outdoor structures of rustic beauty. Through a combination of Shape Wood, Shape Stone, Wall of Stone, Telekinetic Haul, and Flesh to Stone (how else do you get garden halflings?) he builds wonders in days that take normal craftsmen months if not years. Not terrible as a backup healer either with a spontaneous heighten heal.
@Saedar Ah I see it now. We never used it so I glanced over retraining. Per the downtime rules class features which Spells Known is one for a Sorcerer is one month of downtime to retrain. Hard to say if that's one spell or the entire list but I would guess one spell. In the games I am usually part of you only get that much down time between adventure arcs. This will give you flexibility in general but you wont be swapping spells to be undead focused if you suddenly get a plot hook to go kill a vampire. I guess your mileage may vary and I will be interested to see how PFS ends up setting it up
@MusicAddict
As far as your worry about changing with the game meta I have not had your experience. We have always been very restrictive about retraining spells outside of leveling and the leveling mechanic is very limiting as by the nature of the game you will want to release an old spell that you have attained their big brother in order to gain a lower level utility spell. If you have a gm letting sorcerers swap out their spells known easily that might be the source of the problem. In PFS it is really expensive to do a rebuild on even a low level spell much less anything level 5 and up. The sorcerers of any spell list are going to naturally gravitate toward the most versatile and potent of the spells on the list, that’s just the way you build a successful sorcerer. Not overlapping spell lists is more important than not overlapping prepared casters vs spontaneous casters for keeping all party members relevant. The prepared spell caster will be able to respond to the game meta daily where a sorcerer will need to wait an entire level to make 1 adjustment. In short signature spells and spontaneous heightening needs to make up at least 7 spells known and the loss of power from having spells stuck at their initial spell level of damage. A few spells like Heal and Harm are great to have as signature spells as they a level 1 spells with +1 heightening mechanics but most heightenable spells only have 2-3 other spells that they can effectively be heightened to rather than the 8 spells a level 1 spell with +1 heightening. This does not keep up with the losses from PF1 spells known at only 2 signature spells.
Speaking of House rules I think I have come up with my solution. 1) Do away with signature spells entirely.
Mark, Thank you for posting in this thread even if you could not give us a preview of the Signature Spell rules. I apologize if my game mechanic problem for page count reasons came across as harsh. I can see how that could easily fall under unintended consequences of the new spell spell level progression, streamlining the overall spell system to be more balanced with the melee action economy/DPR and a great way to add more content to the initial book without making the book too long. I have been doing a lot of system level game mechanic design recently for a pet project Unity game so I was looking at it from a system design standpoint and not a hand crafted game standpoint. As I didn't send any feedback on the signature spell during the playtest phase I don't really have a leg to stand on, honestly didn't even come to the conclusion that spells should have been split into damage increases and form changes until I was writing the post earlier in this thread. Overall I think PF2 is looking to be a good system and I think it will help ease the burden on the GMs to the point that a few in my group might be finally willing to run a game not directly out of a book.
I feel you on the GM side of things. The longer a single players turn takes the more likely the other players will wonder off either physically or mentally into one device or another. I have both discouraged new and or disorganized players from playing casters and helped make cards for well meaning if forgetful players that I keep between sessions because said players are also likely to lose them. For one group we actually introduced a shot clock. If your player doesn't come up with an action in 2 minutes after passing the turn then their character is skipped. Once we instituted the rule we never had to enforce it because the problem people got organized. The real issue comes in in PFS where whatever rules are written is law with no house ruling and you cannot audit a player to play a class that they are actually competent at playing. Play test Sorcerers needed either more spells known so that you could afford to slot higher level spells or more than just two spell that can be spontaneously heightened. Even tying spontaneous heightening to bloodlines isn't great because most of the blood lines contain many single level spells and more than a few stinkers. In my mind they choose to create a game mechanic problem for a print page count reason. They condensed spells under the same name that had vastly different effect that should have stayed unique spells to save print space then nerfed the damage on spells for all levels after the first level you gained access to it compared to PF1. If the damage was intentionally being balanced then those should have the only spells that could have been heightened. Another option could have been that each spell has a level 0-10 version and reasonable modifications could have been made to classic spells to get them to join together into a single spell line. Then wizards only need to find one record to be able to add the line to their spell book and Sorcerers could only learn 3 spells at level 1 and one additional spell ever other level starting at level 3. A few of the spells would have been left as odd men out but those are usually the underpowered or over powered spells anyway.
For my I always dealt with "analysis paralysis" by making spell cards and a casting app to keep track of my spell levels. Most of the time they were not needed as I knew all my spells by heart. "analysis paralysis" is really only an issue the first couple of sessions with a new character or a very long time between play sessions. Whether only 2 spells I know or all spells I know can be spontaneously heightened I will need to make cards with all of their options and which ones I have in hand at the start of the day will change. A cheat sheet with the sudo spells known broken down by spell level with one line of relevant level dependant information would also greatly cut down on confusion. I actually think Paizo missed the boat a little on the heighten mechanic. Some spells just increase in power but do not really change in function (mostly the damage spells) but other spells vastly change in function and truly are different spells. A sorcerer totally should be able to power up any spell that doesn't change function with a higher spell slot but needs to have the spell as a bloodline or signature spell to heighten it if it changes form with levels. I would have also locked changing signature spells into a level up or rebuild mechanic rather than a once per day.
Not going to lie, was planning on having Architect or Engineer be the characters profession and role play it that he was a wandering mystic builder. Elemental Shaper
initial able to make some detail
Works really well as a gnome actually so maybe the garden gnome joke was in poor taste (maybe its a statuary graveyard?)
I had been planning on making a Fey Sorc that took Stone and Wood Shape and all the Form spells with summon natures ally and heal as my spontaneous heighten spells. In the end I was going to ignore most of the Fey type spell so it would be nice if there was some form of primal shaper bloodline with supporting effects.
Brain_in_a_Jar wrote:
I think I'm being trolled but suffice it to say that my intent was to say the updated master craftsman feat would count as having the appropriate magic item creation feat when creating items allowed by the feat.
What Brain and John appear to be arguing is that master craftsman should read as follows Master Craftsman
Prerequisites: 5 ranks in any Craft or Profession skill.
Creating Magic Armor
Creating Magic Weapons
Creating Wondrous Items
Normal - Only spellcasters can qualify for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats If it really is this restrictive then I will house rule that Master Craftsman (insert craft skill) gives you a pseudo item creation feat cut down to what your Craft can be used for. After all, who can actually use this feat? Fighter, barbarian, rogue without minor magic, Slayer, Swashbuckler, Gunslinger and kineticist. Other than kineticist they are all hurting for feats to do their job or have so few skill points that craft ranks are a real sacrifice. My Rewrite of Master Craftsman Master Craftsman
Craft (armor) - Can create magical armor as if you had the Craft Magical Arms and Armor Feat using Craft (Armor) in place of Spellcraft under normal item creation rules.
Other Crafting and profession: can craft Named Wondrous items the skill applies for, additionally can craft custom wondrous items as if you had the Craft Wondrous Item feat using the chosen craft or profession in place of Spellcraft under normal item creation rules. Special: Can take this feat multiple times, each time pick a different craft or profession.
John Murdock wrote: and does it negate what i said about the rule? no. you need the relevant craft or profession to still do it, if all they say is profession x you need profession x to do it not profession y or craft x to do it Also from a DM perspective you need to ask yourself why you are saying no. If you think it is for a game balance reason then by all means, warn your players that its a dead end feat and get the wizard to take craft feats. If on the other hand its something the player wants to do for story reasons then go for it. Crafting items and finding the rare components are fantastic plot hooks that the players are personally invested in. Have a thief steal your +2 rapier of undead bane and it sucks. Have a thief steal your +2 rapier of undead bane that you needed to collect the remains of 10 different types of undead, retrieve holy water from a monastery in the mountains and melt down an ancient sword, you now will tear down the very sky to get it back. I should also caveat by saying any time my players want to use craft feats they need to collect raw materials of significance to make up for the game balance of crafting for half price.
We will have to agree to disagree and FAQ the question. To me the intent of the feat is to allow non casters a method of creating their primary tools at the expense of skill points and a powerful hit dice feat. If it was intended to be as selective as you believe then the feat would have listed Craft only and not profession as well.
John Murdock wrote:
Thankfully your opinion that Profession is not capable of crafting magic items, despite being an option of the feat, doesn't really mater for the OP or myself.
Which is why its really best to use Profession Blacksmith as your skill of choice due to the virtually unlimited range of weapons, armor and wondrous items that can be made by a Blacksmith. I would say though that creating the "magical" component with alchemy which is added to a mundane item the character is capable of crafting is more than fair in most home games. It could be magical flux that is added to making the sword blank. It could be a special tannin mixture added to the leather making process. It could casting a resin made of dragon blood and dryad sap that is poured into a medallion mold. All of them are basic crafting checks where the challenging part is provided via alchemy. Any DM that cares more about crafting a story with and for their players rather than "beating their players" is going to have a vested interest in accommodating a players vision rather than mandating a strict interpretation of what is essentially a story feat.
If you are careful to enforce the maximum range of the skills you will see that unless they are already grappling the other ship or could be jumping from one to another its hard to use any of the powers in broken ways. The dangerous powers you are worried about you need to compare to 6th level spells available to wizards and druids. You will quickly see that on an encounter by encounter basis a 12th level druid or wizard is far more dangerous in ship to ship combat if they prepare for it. On a physics meets magic logic you need to remember that compared to a 30 ft schooner 320 gallons is a joke but on a small row boat its bad news. Anything requiring continuous use of an at will power should be considered exhausting. Think if you were to swing a sword 10 times a minute all day. If you did that all day your arm would be a wet noodle for the next couple of days and consequently your kineticist could have a splitting headache that made it impossible to gather energy the next day, a huge penalty. There is no denying that a kineticist of any flavor makes a good pirate, with the possible exception of earth/earth but I put forward the power of move earth and stone shape to make or destroy a harbor, and what they bring to the table should make for many non standard solutions that could make an old AP interesting.
Wow, how have I never seen that feat before. You don't really need dex to damage. Compare 22 dex(lvl 8 if you start with 16) and 14 Strength with power attack to 24 Dex starting with an 18 dex. You only loose 1 dex worth of attack/ac/init/ref and do more damage as I don't think with slashing grace you would get 1.5x dex to damage for 2 handing it but you would get 1.5x strength and qualify for power attack on a 2 hand weapon.
Al-Khen wrote:
Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don't take up space on a character's body, use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities. Your equation is wrong for multiple similar is wrong if it were multiple similar, which it is not, it would be
“Other Considerations: Once you have a cost figure, reduce that number if either of the following conditions applies:” You can apply the highest reduction the item qualifies for not each one for a maximum of -30% so
All three traits you listed are Magic Traits and while I am having trouble finding the source, it may be PFS, you are only supposed to have 1 trait from each category. So only one of the 5% discounts can be used. So 16,695 * 0.95 = 15,860.25 if your PFS rules but homebrew table
"The multiple similar abilities rule is specifically for items that don't use a magic item slot (such as staves), and can't be used for items that do use a magic item slot." So its multiple different, not multiple similar so
Its being crafted as an equipment slot item that breaks the rules for staff creation and uses the easiest to get and most versatile crafting feat. Its is most certainly multiple different enchantments and by no means meets the test for similar enchantments. Each enchantment adds to the intended effect and multiplies the action economy value, saying anything else is miss leading to people who don't understand magic item creation.
I could see a stored power one use item that acts like a scroll and priced accordingly. The spell level being the # of d6 and the CL being the minimum level to have that #. You can apply a combo of form and substance that would not require burn at that kineticist level. Kinetic Blade would be required for any enchanted ammo or charges on a melee weapon. Other than kinetic blade charged items I would put a minimum kineticist level to activate or the appropriate UMD. The items would be expensive enough I doubt they would be used too much but on that rare occasion they could be worth it. Might need craft Scroll or a made up feat of Craft Kinetic Charm to make them. I personally would like to see an item to soak burn, either one use or limited use per day and some way to use additional utility powers, possibly from a different element. Other than the defensive big 6 there is little a kineticist needs to spend any money on.
As for my view on the cost. .
The base cost for a CL 1 MM unlimited command word gloves is 1800. Each additional instance of the spell would fall under the multiple different ability multiplier of 1.5 to make them a base of 2700 per each additional layer. Total cost would be 66600 or 33300 to craft. I would also say that to prevent under valuating craft wand one fully charged wand of MM would be consumed as a talismanic component for each instance. If the wizard did not also have craft wand that would add 375 to each instance for another 9375. Secondly making these gloves at a low level would take a tremendous amount of time. 25 days for the wands and 2 days for the first gloves enchant and 3 days for each additional without any failures for a total of 169 8 hour work days. Any failures would increase both the time and the cost. As a GM I would also consider saying that while you could make this, only one of the magic missiles hits your target, the rest target a random square within spell range, hitting the first target in its path to the square.
This a good example of why rule 0 exists. Ultimately the GM is always right and has the responsibility to adjust rules as written for the good of the story and the enjoyment of all his players. Giving in to a rules lawyer with an agenda is a good way to ruin a game for everyone. If I were to accidentally approve something that ended up being over powered I would turn it into a story point. An evil thief will hear of them and sneak into the camp at night to steal the gloves, possibly with the wizards hands still in them. Said thief would begin to use it to take over the underworld of a major city causing great strife. The players would either be hired or driven by guilt to hunt down the thief and the gloves and destroy them both to prevent them from being abused again.
I don't fully have the idea fleshed out in my mind but what if the unchained fighter had bravery, armor training, and weapon training and combat feats replaced with Offensive Style, and Defensive Style. At level 1 you pick your primary offense and defense style. Offense styles are a mix between ranger combat style feat trees and Oracle mysteries. A Blank example: Melee Style of Big Smashy:
Big Smashy Powers: Walk Softly but carry a big stick: Treat a weapon that is normally 2hded for your character as one size larger for damage. PonGG!!: As a standard action strike a single target, if the hit is successful make a free bullrush attempt that does not provoke. Special if you have vicious strike apply the appropriate number of dice. Every other level pick either a bonus combat feat normally, an associated feat without meeting pre reqs or a style power. Defense Styles would be something like Heavy, Medium, Light, Unarmored, Of the mind. Each one would give you a similar mix of powers to combat styles but closer to traits in power and an appropriate skill bonus and save bonus. These would be received on alternating levels from Weapon. I might poke this a little more later.
Matthew Downie wrote:
In this case it would be more like you cornered a serial killer that was notorious for finding a way to get out of any situation given enough time, in this case waiting a day for new spells, and you didn't have any backup to bring him in.
The challenge with Gestalt characters in not in making them powerful its in making them interesting to play. An Unchained Monk/Rogue is a very powerful combo that will be able to deliver a great deal of punishment. Finesse Training Unarmed attack, flying kick, flurry and SA combine for a complete dex focused combat build. Bludgeoner->Enforcer->Shatter Defenses is a good way to get off sneak attacks. Also consider minor magic mage hand and major magic enlarge person as rogue talents. Other wise I would focus on making the character interesting and fun to play. Good luck
I am in the "your character sounds more CG than CN" camp. Your executing the prisoner was just an off shoot of your lack of faith in the law system to protect the innocent. CE would be shooting the Paladin in the face when sleeping so you could cut the prisoner into 4 inch cubes at your leisure. Then again my groups tend to put the "Murder" in Murder Hobo so your mileage may very. I have known some groups who avoid using non one god pantheons for personal reasons and had very G rated games. The real question is, is your group more "Rescue Rangers", "Secret of Nimh" or "Willow"
On of my favorite Gestalt bases is Unchained Rogue + Warpriest. Two weapon fighting with greatsword damage dealing daggers with full sneak attack and dex to attack and damage. All saves, 8 skills, d8, buffs and healing from war priest Dex Con Wisdom. Melee blaster with some support powers and spells
I know I wish I had some warning that a certain DM had a long standing history of making recruitment posts for interesting sounding games that required extensive character creation time, only to cry wolf on RL issues. By history I mean a cycle of at least 10 instances in profiles on this board. It didn't even occur to me to check his history.
GraveScratches, Two questions for you,
hmm It will not let me edit my languages, time to make a profile for Adolina. With an 18 int and 1 rank in linguistics as a Varisian my intended languages are Common and Varisian, then Elven, Halfling, Infernal, Shadowtongue and Strix. Am I incorrect that a Varisian automatically gets Varisian and common? Are there any other languages better suited?
Adolina Resariosa the Wolf of the Scales The Crunch:
Female Varisian Human Witch (Ley Line Guardian, Shadow Patron) 1 NG Medium humanoid Init +3; Senses Perception +6 -------------------- Defense -------------------- AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 10 (+3 Dex) hp 8 (1d6+2) Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +3; +2 trait bonus vs. fear spells and effects --------------------
Witch (Ley Line Guardian) Spells (CL 1st; concentration +5)
--------------------
The Fluff: Adolina is a Varisian Caravan negotiator. She is in Kintargo ostensibly for a very lucrative trade deal concerning highly sought after Varisian weaving's, common knowledge is that she is also running weapons into Cheliax to arm the population against house Thune. What remains a secret is that the true mission of Adolina's caravan is to smuggle north escaped halfling slaves out of Cheliax. Adolina is going to the protests in hope of making contact with the local Bellflower contingent as her handle went quite after martial law was declared and locked her into the city.
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