Mechagamera's page

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How about:

The real reason you lose your memories when you die is that all all the pieces of your soul that correspond to the alignments other than the one you spend your afterlife as an aspect of are cut away in the Bone Yard. Even for the most saintly paladin, the lack of the CG, NG, LN, N, CN, LE, NE, and CE parts of your soul (small as any of them may be) leave too many holes in your mind for you to be able to access any memories (or make sense of them if you could access them).


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CE--the monk's philosophical studies have taken him down a dark path, glimpsing things in mediation that man (or dwarf or elf or whatever the monk is) should never have seen. The monk believes that applying existing martial arts with wanton cruelty will eventually open his mind to creating a qlippoth stance or soul-wrenching ki spells.

CN--before becoming a monk, the person's life was rash and unfocused. At the monastery, she attained discipline, but that discipline was the result of being surrounded by the monastic culture. Now circumstances have forced her out in the world, and without the constant push of her fellow monks, her natural tendency towards capriciousness has returned, aided by the muscle memory of years of martial arts training.


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Midnightoker wrote:
Ly'ualdre wrote:
Which is probably why 2e Summoners have been implied to be able to choose their Tradition based on what their Eidolon is and how exactly it was created. If Traditions are the combination and manipulation of Essence to become magic; than I'd say and Eidolon is the combination of said Essence to become life essentially.

Interesting, I had not heard that they were a choose your tradition caster.

I wonder how the essences will tether to the Eidolon itself if that is the case, because I would expect some type of anchoring to exist in the same way the Witch/Sorcerer have powers tethered to the tradition.

Where did they imply it was a potential choose tradition? I had always heard the theory that Summoner was to be the "Spontaneous Arcane" caster, but perhaps that's not the case.

Maybe these "further reduced casters" will be getting their own set of each tradition + casting type (and these will be the new "gish" classes). If they land well, we might expect the Inquisitor to be in the same vein and a brand new Class takes the role of Spontaneous Arcane (if that ever becomes a thing).

The whole God Caller thing suggests a divine option.

Since an arcane summoner will likely have the full arcane list to draw on (or at least through 9th level spells), that could potentially create a grossly overpowered PC (summoner does as much damage as a wizard, then send in the eidolon for some extra damage). The simplest way to avoid that would be to make the summoner a divine caster, since the divine list isn't as damage heavy as the arcane or primal list (occult may work to). That isn't my favorite option; I prefer the eidolon has some vulnerability (like sharing hit points with the summoner) that strongly pushes the summoner to spend most of his/her casting to protect the eidolon while it is in the field. That vulnerability also creates some narrative space for the summoner.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
Having your eidolon be a full combatant and having the summoner being able to cast a spell would feel good. How to reign that in with power levels though might be tricky.

I suggest making the eidolon and the summoner share hit points. Hard to argue that the eidolon is "tougher than the party's barbarian" if it has wizard hp's, and that certainly motivates the summoner to spend most of his/her actions on casting spells to support the eidolon. As an aside, it also cuts down on the amount of bookkeeping since there is one less "character's" hit points to track.

Motivating the summoner to focus his/her casting attention on the eidolon seems particularly important if the summoner follows the sorcerer and witch with "choose your tradition" if you think of the summoner casting some high damage arcane or primal spells every round plus having the eidolon doing its thing.


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In Pathfinder the Next Generation, the ship's security officer will be a goblin with a beard (because all goblins will have beards a century from now), and if that doesn't tell you what Torag thinks of goblins (and who is responsible for the change in goblins), well there is no hope for you.


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More Windsong Testaments please.


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The main reason for a con caster was for races with no mental stat boost, but so far in PF2, it looks like everyone gets a mental boost and a physical boost (or a free boost), so unless orcs or gnolls don't get a mental stat boost, there isn't much need for one.

That being said, I wouldn't have minded if things like number of rounds of rage or wild shape (or some kind of ability where the fighter does more damage if the fight lasts long enough) were based on your con modifier.


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I think it is worth quoting James Jacobs over in the other neutral champion thread (https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42og8?Where-do-you-think-we-ll-see-Neutral-Ch ampions):

"For example... I could see a place for a true neutral champion that's all about protecting the flow of life and death and souls, and would be a full-on fighter against undead and creatures that capture or consume souls. That would absolutely be enough meat to base a class around, but conceptually, that starts to feel like it's stealing some of the
lunch of the good champions who already do pretty well against undead.

The trick is finding a role for neutral champions that is interesting and can support an entire class but doesn't poach things from other champions. When (and IF) we come up with an idea there... only then will we start to look at possibly doing a neutral champion. But from the office of expectation management, that day might never come."

And in a separate quote: "All of them are on the proverbial table, but I don't think it'd be satisfying to do just the LN and CN ones and not the N ones. Furthermore, while a LN champion could be all about fighting chaos and a CN one all about fighting law... again, that starts to potentially step on the toes of other champions a little. They'd need more than that. "

It is nice that they want to do something interesting with the champions of neutrality other than mad-libbing some adjectives in other champion's abilities, but it doesn't sound like anything will happen soon.


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It might be a little bit hard to be lawful and be in the wild order and your evil druids have to be selective about what they inflict wanton cruelty on for some of the other orders, but none of that seems insurmountable.


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Because Kender are WotC IP. I kid, I kid.

"The war sucked and we don't feel like being evil anymore" is workable, but it feels like it is cheating the poor goblins out of a mythical moment. Everyone deserves a mythical moment, so:

My PC's heard from a drunk in a bar that it was because the 4th person to pass the StarStone test was a goblin who has been hiding out from Lamashtu ever since (and has been so successful that even Paizo hasn't heard about it).

Or....

Goblins love fire.
The Sun is made up of fire.
Sarenrae is the goddess of the Sun.
Sarenrae is the goddess of redemption.
Do the math.


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I have a feeling a couple of these things (summoner, gunslinger, shifter, or anything else that had "issues" in PF1) might have long waits before they show up. I think they all will show up, but I think Paizo really wants them good (and be acceptable at most tables) when they do arrive and that takes time.


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I don't think they are locked into 4 essences, but they made them so big that it will be hard to make more. When people talk about shadow, I think they are thinking about a handful of spells, and that is an order of magnitude too small.


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Quandary wrote:

If I had to speculate on their (now confirmed/ret-conned) specific existence, it seems like it would make sense connected to Apsu and his divine demesne... I could see them being an element of Tianjing in Tian Xia as non-"humanoid" parallel to "normal" Aasimar locals, with Celestial/Apsu alliance making sense in dragon-drenched history of Tian Xia. A presence in (Dragon ruled) Xa Hoi society also seems plausible IMHO, possibly deriving from Tianjing group. Really, "Metallic Kobolds" could be represented by Kobold Ancestry with Aasimar Heritage (with specific rules re: Metallic Dragon aspect): if Kobold+Aasimar do exist, why wouldn't they be Metallic?

That seems like the type of ret-con that maintains the coherence of old paradigm by properly carving out distinct exception rather than just ignoring the previous canon. They would be semi-celestial with significant presence only in specific corner of the world, avoiding broader impact to Kobold's global niche which had led metallics to officially "not exist" before (albeit maybe that overplays JJ's earlier take). Their rare existence on material plane and position in Apsu's demesne might also prompt Good-aligned (non-metallic) Kobolds to hold them in special status and so on, as blessed priest-servitor class in a way... Somewhat mirroring general vibe of Aasimar, but very focused and tied to specific Good deity and of course Kobold/Dragon ancestry.

I think metallics as aasimar is a most excellent idea. If sylphs become a universal race, then I could see the sylph kobold being the cloud dragon proxy.


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Since we haven't seen them on Golorion before, it is time for the hidden kingdom of the metallic kobolds. I look forward to some Wakandan/Themyscian style arrogance: it is not your fault that your metal work is so poor, you are just a dwarf, but, take heart, it is levels about the cheap limericks elves pass off as poetry.....


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Filthy Lucre wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Nah. The five current colors are it. There might be exceptions now and then, like the weirdo purple kobold from Kingmaker, but I'd rather not have kobold versions of every dragon.

So, hopefully you check back in to read this because this is a real design question that has always puzzled me.

As Paizo actively moves away from the potentially racist/sexist tropes that have plagued Drow since their inception I am incredibly surprised we even still have dragons split into good and evil camps that are completely defined by their "race" as it were.

Would it make a lot more sense, from a world building perspective, and from a 'staying away from problematic concepts' perspective, to just say:

"There are only chromatic dragons. A dragons ethical outlook varies from individual to individual"?

No need to engage in literary ethnic cleansing.

Gold dragons are very interested in social engineering the lives of lesser life forms (pretty much everything non-gold dragon). Gold dragons almost always have large groups of kobolds living near them. Alignment: any lawful

Silver dragons tend toward high levels of religious fervor. Alignment: within one step of their god

Bronze dragons enjoy spending extended periods of time disguised as a humanoids. It is dangerous to "out" them. Alignment: any neutral

Brass dragons enjoy lifestyles of luxury and stimulating conversation. Unlike other dragons, they are willing to work for lesser beings to fund that lifestyle. Alignment: any neutral

Copper dragons are born entertainers. Sometimes they don't recognize (or care) if their antics hurt others. Alignment: any chaotic

Red dragons desire to be recognized as the best at what they do. An evil red dragon is the worst monster, and a good one is the greatest hero. Either way it is good for your health to recognize (and sing the praises of) any red dragon you meet. Alignment: any non-neutral

Blue dragons prefer to live in more complicated societies than other dragons, using magic to communicate with their peers with great regularity (since they don't like living around other dragons anymore than any other dragon). Blue dragons almost always have large groups of kobolds living near them. Alignment: any lawful

Green dragons think of themselves as authors and lesser beings as their books. A green dragon might help an orc become chief of her tribe only to engineer the orcs downfall because the Green feels like telling a tragedy. Or a Green might terrorize a Halfling family to prod a member of the family into becoming a paladin. Alignment: it doesn't matter, you won't know until it is too late anyway

Black dragons are the most territorial and antisocial of dragonkind. As far as they are concerned anything with an int of 3 or higher should stay out of their swamp. Or else become dinner. Alignment: CE

White dragons are a subrace of Silver dragons that turned to nature worship/druidism. Alignment: Any neutral


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Dimension door doesn't force you to leave your familiar to die, the fact that you didn't think through the implications when the party rogue said "I think the next room is the dragon's lair" is what forced your wizard to leave his/her familiar to die.

"Fluffy, wait out here, I will be back in a bit" is far more valuable for the familiar's lifespan than any spell.


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Yqatuba wrote:
But she did have a relationship with Apsu (as someone mentioned), and even had a kid with him (the dragon Peace Through Vigilance.)

Once you go dragon, you will never stop braggin'


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Iomedae doesn't strike me as a "giving in to unnecessary distractions" type. After the Abyss, Abaddon, and Hell have been conquered by the Forces of Good, there will be plenty of time for romance.


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I think I would go with each god having a single "most common" domain, a paragraph saying gods often benefit from having servants with other domains, so clerics can pick any common domain. Then I would make lists like "tyranny, pain, and undeath are uncommon for good aligned deities", and players should talk to their GM's if they want to make a good cleric with pain domain (messed up follower of Vildeis).

So, new players can easily play the "most common" domain for their PC's god, experienced players don't have to worry about whether Plague domain is available for Urgathoa or not, and GM's can decide if they want to put up "necromancy isn't evil because I have a cleric of Sarenrae with the undeath domain."


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PossibleCabbage wrote:

I still don't have a good idea of what a CN champion would be about, modulo the requirement that this character is not a person who would be a pain in the butt to adventure with.

Like, what are the tenets of chaos?

I think the "not a pain in the butt to adventure with" is one of the big stumbling blocks for the champions of neutrality. In some ways it is worse than the champions of evil, since you can expect bad behavior out of "super-extra evil guy", and you really shouldn't have to expect it out of champions of neutrality (except for maybe the CN one).

I have a hard time thinking of CN tenets that aren't just watered down versions of the CG (and what I presume the CE ones will be). Maybe liberate slaves, but then they are on their own (shouldn't be dependent on you, that is just a step back towards slavery) and art is inherently beneficial (even if it is done on someone else's property without their permission--say hello to the CN champion of graffiti)---sounds like a jerk and a pain in the butt to me.


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1d6 Fall Damage wrote:
I am curious how pantheon rules interact with spells like Divine Lance.

The simplest idea would be that the spells would key off of the patron deity. When you are building your pantheon, just make sure there is one non-TN deity in the group, so that one can be the patron.

I imagine that is how the final oracle will work too: you worship fire or battle or whatnot, pick a god with that in the portfolio as the patron deity for purposes of spells that require a deity. You are an oracle, not a cleric or paladin, so you can ignore the anathemas associated with that god (unless you want to be bound by them).


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UnArcaneElection wrote:

^It's the principle of the thing. Somebody is messing with my memory to punish someone else. Not cool no matter how many times I met them.

The whole bit about "In both cases, memories and writings rearrange themselves to omit you smoothly, rather than leaving obvious gaps" makes me think what he really did was teleport the cursed individual from one Golorian to an alternate version where the cursed never existed. Thus he didn't really mess with your memory, since the "you" that remembered the cursed person isn't the same "you" that is meeting the stranger who claims to be your best friend.

And if you break the curse (or Irori lifts it), Irori just sends you back to the Golorian you came from.


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spectrevk wrote:

Yo, Irori has some weird-ass feet. His big toe is like a third the width of his foot. :P

Maybe that is what happens when you use too many flurry of toes...I mean blows.....

Or the Fifth Horsemen is growing in his ingrown toenail.


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I believe this thread will shed some light on it: https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sh26?The-Windsong-Testaments-Rage -of-Creation#discuss.


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It could also be that Rovagug's presence caused commune spells to go to something other than the expected target. Has there been a novel or AP where someone goes into the Pit and casts commune to something other than the big R?


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Maybe the witch could merge with the familiar (one being shared hit points best of the 2 saves) for a short time each day. That would add survivability to the familiar and creepiness to the witch (particularly if the familiar was a spider or bug). Limited time means it won't be all day, but a witch who was going into combat would have the option.


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Scent


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I would argue that witches need "creepy" spells, but that lessons should handle those. After that if there must be one list, arcane seems to fit best due to the learning (and int casting), since the main reason occult was a fit was for the "creepy" spells.

If the APG wants to have a primarily occult caster (big if at this point), well being cursed by power is a primary theme in occult, and only a corner case for divine, so it seems like oracle would be a better thematic fit (and it isn't like oracles do actual mythological oracle stuff anyway).


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Ravingdork wrote:

Oracle curses should mostly be a matter of flavor, and not mechanics. The idea of a class feature actually penalizing you has always struck me as somewhat absurd.

Player: Hey, want to check out the new Oracle class!
New Player: Sure! What makes it unique?
Player: Horrible curses that penalize your character!
New Player: Think I'll take a pass on that.

There's just no real way to sell that without, at best, making it sound like you're making up for the penalties that probably shouldn't have been there in the first place.

I think the conversation would actually go like this:

Player: Hey, want to check out the new Oracle class!
New Player: Cool, I bet telling the future will make my PC really important.
Player: Oracles don't to that in Pathfinder.
New Player: What, really?
Player: Nope. Sorry about that.
New Player: That makes no sense. If it isn't about telling the future, why are they calling it an oracle? Okay, I will bite, what does an oracle do then?
Player: They cast spells and have horrible curses that penalize your character!
New Player: Like Pirates of the Caribbean or a werewolf curse? It still doesn't sound like an oracle, but being a werewolf or skeleton would be cool.
Player: Nope, not useful curses, just bad curses.
New Player: I heard 5e is a lot easier, could we play that instead?


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Honestly, high charisma types are the only ones who could fall for this sales pitch. High physical stat types have probably had to work out or practice, so "powers for nothing" is suspicious. High wisdom types wouldn't "feel right" about it. High intelligence types should figure "it doesn't make any sense for someone to offer me something for nothing." High charisma types assume everyone loves them anyway, so why shouldn't a mysterious stranger give them a magic pet....


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It seems to me that if they added a couple of divine-related greater and major lessons in the APG, a lot of the concern would go away. It may only need one that gives your familiar summon fiend and the witch a hellfire rebuke hex and one that gives some good healing options. Then the "make a deal with the devil" and the healbot "good witch" archetypes would both be supported without opening up divine witches.

Of course, for my money, the witch shouldn't be a list caster in the first place and should get all the spells from lessons which could draw from all the traditions. The big selling point would be that witch is best positioned to get a little bit from tradition A, a little bit from tradition B,....


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Angel Hunter D wrote:
If they grant divine power outside their normal avenue, wouldn't we just have an oracle?

Right now, the oracle is a group effort (possibly even an unintentional one) rather than a single god's work. Besides for a lot of witch patrons it would make more sense to have a curse trigger if you don't use a particular power instead of if you do, as it is for oracles: Why wasn't that orc that just died under a hex? I need souls. I guess it's time for you to not be able to heal until you curse and kill some humanoid, so you know not to let souls go to waste.


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It seems like the existence of the divine sorcerer puts a fork in the idea that accessing divine power without divine intervention is inherently dangerous in PF2 (honestly that should be more occult magic's gimmick anyway). It seems like it is more about who opens the faucet of power in the first place rather than who controls how fast the power comes out of it....


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I like the recover focus when you kill a hexed target idea. It adds another reason for patrons to support witches.


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In the fullness of time, I am sure there will be a divine option (may not be in the APG), but I suspect they didn't want people comparing the divine oracle to the divine witch in the playtest or be in a huff because "they have two divine things in the playtest and only 1 arcane thing" (and let's not pretend that wouldn't have happened).


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In universe, I think "goblin pride" (and "take ownership of the name") would be totally fitting for them to keep the name goblin.


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SOLDIER-1st wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Decimus Drake wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
siegfriedliner wrote:
Mind you one thing I quite like about alignment Damage is that it could lead to a pyschopass style dystopia were cities went about actively purging evil from them with detect evil sensors and alignment damaged based turrets on every corner to mow down anyone that pings as evil, its flawless because the turrets can't hurt collateral as only evil creatures are damaged by them.
There's a funny catch-22 that prevents this: executing humanoids without evidence of a crime being committed could be considered an evil act. Psycho Pass works because the system's definition of evil is inherently flawed and is frankly closer to what Pathfinder alignment would consider to be chaotic.
It's only catch-22 if you equate lawful process with "good". Their execution has nothing to do with their crimes. They are being killed because they are objectively evil and killing them is a good act because the alignment based damage being used to kill them is objectively good.
Killing Evil creatures sends them to the Evil planes, thereby strengthening Evil on the cosmic scale. Better to redeem them if you can.
I don't believe that's true in Pathfinder (not sure if you're talking about D&D, PF, or Psychopass).

I think it is: evil soul becomes an evil petitioner that (possibly) becomes a devil/demon/daemon (or whatnot). It is a fairly marginal thing: the odds are that it won't be a big empowerment of evil (most evil petitioners don't rise very high). A good soul could spend eternity singing "Joy to the World" (Jeremy was a Bullfrog version for CG) and not adding a lot to the forces of Good. On the other hand, that redeemed gnoll might end up becoming a Solar instead of a Balor.


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The Shifty Mongoose wrote:
Mechagamera wrote:
MidsouthGuy wrote:
My personal hypothesis is that Barbatos is a Qlippoth Lord who became Lawful. Instead of wanting to wipe out mortal life, he wants to punish, torment, and degrade it. His best bet for making that desire come true is to join the ranks of Hell, so he did. Him being a Qlippoth Lord would explain the friendship with Chaotic beings and eldritch appearance.
Now I am picturing a Qlippoth Lord that became an Empyreal Lord (maybe going so far as to become LG) to better fight demons, and everyone was "we can trust this thing as long as demons exist, but they are ever defeated....."
Wow, now I want to see a former Qlippoth turned Good. That'd just about be the ultimate redemption! Also, I wonder what one would look like...

Something like an Ophanim angel (wheels with lots of eyes) would work for me. I am not sure what the "good" version of the horrific appearance effect should be.


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MidsouthGuy wrote:
My personal hypothesis is that Barbatos is a Qlippoth Lord who became Lawful. Instead of wanting to wipe out mortal life, he wants to punish, torment, and degrade it. His best bet for making that desire come true is to join the ranks of Hell, so he did. Him being a Qlippoth Lord would explain the friendship with Chaotic beings and eldritch appearance.

Now I am picturing a Qlippoth Lord that became an Empyreal Lord (maybe going so far as to become LG) to better fight demons, and everyone was "we can trust this thing as long as demons exist, but they are ever defeated....."


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I suspect that the material plane is unpleasant to the elememntals. It may even be painful. Think of the poor fire elemental--it is bitterly cold and there humidity in the air--it may not do damage in the game sense (no hit points lost), but it can still be unpleasant.

They may regard organic life as an unnatural aberration, maybe akin to how the average humanoid would view something from the Far Realm. No one badmouths John Q. Dirtfarmer if he uses his shovel to smack some tentacle horror that pops out of a dimensional portal without waiting to see if it will suck out someone's brain.

In my games, I have the Elemental Liberation Front (ELF), a group of elementals trying to end the slave taking practices of the material plane's magic users. No reason to assume that elementals don't talk to each other, and stories of mistreatment by humanoids may be widespread.

If a PC found him/herself in an unpleasant environment and met some hideous monsters that were widely regarded as hostile in the PC's culture, what do you think he/she would do?


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Tender Tendrils wrote:
Mechagamera wrote:
Squiggit wrote:

I'm not sure we really need prepared any and to be honest the idea of just checking off every box for the sake of checking it off sounds.. not great. We don't really need ten flavors of 10th level spellcaster just to check off boxes.

Not to say that more casters aren't bad, but they should have some really strong thematic thing tying them into the game, not just exist to fill an arbitrary niche.

Like, Wizards and Arcane Sorcerers already feel really similar. Throwing a third caster in there feels like it would be pretty suffocating unless it has something really compelling to set it apart, which is in and of itself hard to do with how minimalist full caster class features actually are.

Regarding Witches, while I don't think it's necessary for Patrons to define spell lists, I would still like to see them be a lot more meaningful than 1e Patrons. The fluff of the Patron is really neat, thematically... but in practice there just isn't much there.

I like Hexes as a combination of cantrips and focus spells like the Bard has... maybe we could even get a damage dealing one so I can snag a patron and a big nuke and pretend to be a D&D warlock.

Inquiring minds want to know: how is prepared occult any less "checking off boxes" than prepared any? You might be able to argue that it is a more important box, but ultimately it is just a box.

Its about the reason for making the decision. The point is that the choice shouldn't be made just to fill a box, and you shouldn't just keep adding classes just to fill those boxes. The decision should be "I have an interesting and fun class concept, what tradition and method of spellcasting best fits that concept and helps to develop its distinctive identity".

While I am actually all for the sorcerer being pick a tradition (as it best fits the concept) I feel that making the witch pick a tradition doesn't feel right for the witch, and that occult magic is what the witch should be all about. (As the...

I get magic because my daddy is a devil is okay for that magic to be divine, but I get my magic because I learned it from a devil means the magic is somehow occult? On the surface, that doesn't feel right to me.

Now if they say something like "devils and fey lords teach witches occult magic in order to disguise their influence", I could buy that (assuming they explained how a nonoccult patron can teach occult magic [for devils I assume it would involve mining knowledge from occult casters souls in Hell]), but I haven't seen anything like that either (especially on this thread)


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I am assuming the witch will be the prepared version of the sorcerer: your patron might be, for example, a dragon (arcane), a devil (divine), an archfey (primal), or a GOO (occult). The hexes will be the focus spells. Int caster, which will also solve "it isn't right that my wizard can't summon a demon", since a witch/wizard multiclass should be a good combo.


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Maybe for sorcerers, "your deity" picks you instead of the other way around. If you are infused with their power (and maybe you didn't do a single thing to try to get that power), it seems like you are already "picked", regardless of who you pray to. Seems like a good source of Plot to me.....


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Kobolds discover that metallic dragons are also dragons. Some kobolds come to serve their new metallic overlords (undoubtedly a social engineering experiment by one or more gold dragons). Better living conditions produce healthier (and thus better for being a PC) kobolds.


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Even if the rest of the designers decided that "I'm feeling evil" is how they meant for this to play out, I think they should clarify it, since RAW + unconventional often equals problems at tables.

That being said, I would be fine if Mark changes it. If that is the case, I hope they find something more imaginative than "eventually you will turn evil/good/lawful/chaotic"--maybe every time a nonevil type casts the spell an imp teleports into the vicinity (you don't have to be evil to use this spell, but you are helping evil get a stronger foothold in the world every time you do). Last I heard, imps are still worth xp and have loot, so it is a win-win for the murder hoboes.


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In the fulness of time I am sure there will be more options. Still, I imagine the devs "to do" list is pretty big, so official "other good champions" might be a couple of years away (3rd party might be a lot sooner).


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Ed Reppert wrote:
BadHairDay wrote:
Thank god. I hated psionics from the moment it first came into D&D. It always just felt wrong because D&D requires magic and telepathy always seemed much more an element of science fiction.

If you can find a copy of it, read P.E.I. Bonewits' Authentic Thaumaturgy. It explains that the ability to do magic comes from innate psychic abilities, of which telepathy is just one, or actually two, sending and receiving. :-)

AT presents a magic system that could replace the system in just about any RPG. It doesn't provide a lot of spells - the emphasis is on using your innate psychic abilities and the laws of magic to devise your own spells. He does give a couple of examples, like "finger of blowing out of saddle", which requires a cheroot and a serape as materials. :-)

Oh, and "a spell is a process, not a thing." (It's the process of putting yourself in a mental state in which you can access your psychic abilities).

Those are great spell components. That does make me think of those old Weird Tales (and Dune) where psychic powers often involved sniffing something or drinking something (hmmmm, maybe the alchemist is already psychic). Maybe black lotus, hallucinatory mushrooms, Spice, and Granny's Moonshine as archetypes.....


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Pinstripedbarbarian wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
IIRC hags were arcane casters in the playtest bestiary, so I'd assume they will be an arcane bloodline, as much as occult would make sense.
Ah well, I'm a little sad to hear it but thanks for the info. I'd love for classic monsters to really carve their niches into the "new" spell lists to give things more identity. Witches being occult seems to make sense for a lot of people, so Hags following suit would be great.

I agree. It would be nice to account for occult being available on Day 1. On the other hand, in the "why is bard occult" thread, Mark Seifter said: Fey are tricky! It's slightly different metaphysically, but Mechagamera was right on the money that fey were "cheating" and doing weird things with their magic, hacking the essences they have rather than using mental/vital combo, but very similar.

Maybe Hags are good at hacking too....


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Arcaian wrote:
Mechagamera wrote:
You mean medium won't be the occult archetype for the oracle (or maybe the oracle will be the divine archetype of the medium)? The gods give visions, the spirits give me visions, six of one, half dozen of the other.
Oracles have always been varied in the abilities available to the class, but not the character - you can have a melee tank oracle, a blasting oracle, a summoning oracle, etc, but you couldn't have one oracle change between all those easily. Medium's mechanical niche is flexibility of the character, not the class, and that doesn't share much with the oracle. Thematically they're not that similar either - oracles are cursed/blessed by gods, whereas mediums channel the spirits of dead mortals. I see far more ground for similarity between a Shaman and a medium than an Oracle :)

You go see the oracle to find out what quest the gods want to go on. You go see the medium to find out what quest your dead aunt wants you to go on. That seems very thematically similar to me. It is basically mad libs.


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I think you could think of occult as powered-up hedge magic, which seems very appropriate for bards.

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