Is Barbatos a Great Old One infiltrating another Pantheon?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


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Or he exfiltrated the Elder Mythos pantheon and seeked refuged in Hell because he was hunted by his peers for being lawful? A "fallen" demigod from the Elder Mythos would certainly be lawful (or good or both).

With his many eyes and barbed tentacles he looks like an Great Old One/Outer God. His whole mutated animal schtick is close to Shub-Niggurath's. And his linked to gateways like Yog-Sothoth. His seers aspect also rings of Elder Mythos.

I can see Barbatos as a refugee. Or one of many who are trying to infiltrate other pantheon. The fey Eldest Ng the Hooded could be another one of these agents. No one knowns what Ng looks like and he is mysterious with his gloves (that could hide tentacles!!).

Are there other entities like Barbatos and Ng who have mysterious origines and could be linked to the Elder Mythos?


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Well, there is Desna...


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And Zon-Kuthon...


PossibleCabbage wrote:
Well, there is Desna...

Apparently not.

James Jacobs wrote:

Desna is indeed an alien entity who's kind of "adopted" the humanoid form in response to her delight in how we humans look and act. She's not from "outer space" even though she enjoys outer space—she pre-dates sapient thought/mortal life in the Material Plane, along with some of the other really REALLY ancient deities.

She's not a Great Old One, though. She's a full-fledged deity who doesn't get a stat block. Nor is she an Outer God, because she actively cares for and likes and wants to help us people.

If Desna were in Lovecraft's stories, she'd be classified along with Nodens as an Elder God, I suppose.

(We don't have an "Elder God" category in Pathifnder because it's nonsensical—"Elder God" basically means "deities who aren't Great Old Ones or Outer Gods," after all, so pretty much every other deity in the setting is an "Elder God" if you look at it from the Derleth Mythos world view—the creation of that category of deity being something August Derleth introduced to the stories in his sometimes awkward attempt to categorize Lovecraft's creations into narrowly defined categories like elementals and the like.)


PossibleCabbage wrote:
Well, there is Desna...

I know this isn't LITERALLY true, but this will always be my personal head cannon.

Shadow Lodge

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Yeah, I love the idea of a former Outer God who was driven sane by the plight of mortality. I really want to make well-meaning CN Elder Mythos Cultist of Desna who the mainstream Desnans keep telling not to be so furtive and creepy all the time. Since Desna makes her realm in Cynosure, for Desna, the stars are always right!

Shadow Lodge

As for Barbatos, I thought that as well. Focusing more toward corruption and secrecy as strictly enforced rules, as well as the social constructivism of, "Everything can be corrupted, therefore, everything IS being corrupted RIGHT NOW!" It's also a plus for Asmodeus, who might happily accept an Outer God into the outermost layer of Hell. Surely, this is proof that even jumbled madness must give way to his tight-fisted rule.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Barbatos being a great old one is certainly an amusing notion... but if the time comes for us to reveal what he is, and if I'm still the creative director... he won't be. I don't think that the flavor of Hell works with the flavor of Lovecraft at all, and don't wanna mix the two.

There's SO MUCH MORE he could be that is more interesting to me. But at the same time, now isn't the right time to nail down in print what he is.

Shadow Lodge

Yeah, I mean, it is one of those mysteries that doesn't really need a resolution.


James Jacobs wrote:

Barbatos being a great old one is certainly an amusing notion... but if the time comes for us to reveal what he is, and if I'm still the creative director... he won't be. I don't think that the flavor of Hell works with the flavor of Lovecraft at all, and don't wanna mix the two.

There's SO MUCH MORE he could be that is more interesting to me. But at the same time, now isn't the right time to nail down in print what he is.

A... a Qlippoth!?

Or a fey or agathion. Those can have tentacle esthetics.


goldomark wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

Barbatos being a great old one is certainly an amusing notion... but if the time comes for us to reveal what he is, and if I'm still the creative director... he won't be. I don't think that the flavor of Hell works with the flavor of Lovecraft at all, and don't wanna mix the two.

There's SO MUCH MORE he could be that is more interesting to me. But at the same time, now isn't the right time to nail down in print what he is.

A... a Qlippoth!?

Or a fey or agathion. Those can have tentacle esthetics.

Or all of it^^?


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I think the real question is, if Barbatos exists in Golarian, does Batman exist in some sense?

Shadow Lodge

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I mean, there are/were vigilantes...
But if we're going down that route, just be glad that this guy named Barbatos can't run over to you and take a max-damage AoO if you try to use a scroll or potion within line of sight...


22plus wrote:
I think the real question is, if Barbatos exists in Golarian, does Batman exist in some sense?

If I have my timeline right, Golarion year 4719 AR maps to earth year 1919 CE, and the first batman comic was released in 1939 according to a quick google search. So it seems we are about 20 years too early.


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"Rasputin Must Die" came out in 2013 and has the PCs visiting earth- in 1918 by earth reckoning.

So Currently it should be 1924 on Earth in the universe that contains Golarion.

So we're 15 years away from Batman.


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Pretty sure he’s a baernaloth.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:

"Rasputin Must Die" came out in 2013 and has the PCs visiting earth- in 1918 by earth reckoning.

So Currently it should be 1924 on Earth in the universe that contains Golarion.

So we're 15 years away from Batman.

In the Year 15 BB (Before Batman)...


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Somewhere, deep beneath the earth, an ancient clock ticks down. One minute left until midnight strikes. The peoples of the Lands Below have prophesies of what will be unleashed when the clock strikes midnight. Of the coming of a legend. A man who would be more than a man. Darkness to fear even for those in the lands without light. Duergar, drow, even the aboleth consult what powers they can to learn the nature of this creature.

Elsewhere, the Mask of Zorro is playing....


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I noticed he is the only Archdevil to have unholy aura instead of shield of law. Is this significant?


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Probably because he's not really a devil or from Hell but something else that's originally from somewhere else?


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My personal hypothesis is that Barbatos is a Qlippoth Lord who became Lawful. Instead of wanting to wipe out mortal life, he wants to punish, torment, and degrade it. His best bet for making that desire come true is to join the ranks of Hell, so he did. Him being a Qlippoth Lord would explain the friendship with Chaotic beings and eldritch appearance.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well, also, Lawful Evil souls don't become demons. Ever. Thereby helping the Qlippoth in their Abyssal war.


Could it be that Barbatos, and not Yamasoth, is the first demon?

Crazy? You think the multiverse is sane?


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MidsouthGuy wrote:
My personal hypothesis is that Barbatos is a Qlippoth Lord who became Lawful. Instead of wanting to wipe out mortal life, he wants to punish, torment, and degrade it. His best bet for making that desire come true is to join the ranks of Hell, so he did. Him being a Qlippoth Lord would explain the friendship with Chaotic beings and eldritch appearance.

Now I am picturing a Qlippoth Lord that became an Empyreal Lord (maybe going so far as to become LG) to better fight demons, and everyone was "we can trust this thing as long as demons exist, but they are ever defeated....."


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What if Barbatos is just a guy in a tentacle mask who is really, really good at bluffing?

One hasty lie built upon another until they found themselves ruling a layer of hell and being stuck keeping up the lie. They just keep pretending and it keeps working somehow.

Shadow Lodge

Mechagamera wrote:
MidsouthGuy wrote:
My personal hypothesis is that Barbatos is a Qlippoth Lord who became Lawful. Instead of wanting to wipe out mortal life, he wants to punish, torment, and degrade it. His best bet for making that desire come true is to join the ranks of Hell, so he did. Him being a Qlippoth Lord would explain the friendship with Chaotic beings and eldritch appearance.
Now I am picturing a Qlippoth Lord that became an Empyreal Lord (maybe going so far as to become LG) to better fight demons, and everyone was "we can trust this thing as long as demons exist, but they are ever defeated....."

Wow, now I want to see a former Qlippoth turned Good. That'd just about be the ultimate redemption! Also, I wonder what one would look like...


The Shifty Mongoose wrote:
Mechagamera wrote:
MidsouthGuy wrote:
My personal hypothesis is that Barbatos is a Qlippoth Lord who became Lawful. Instead of wanting to wipe out mortal life, he wants to punish, torment, and degrade it. His best bet for making that desire come true is to join the ranks of Hell, so he did. Him being a Qlippoth Lord would explain the friendship with Chaotic beings and eldritch appearance.
Now I am picturing a Qlippoth Lord that became an Empyreal Lord (maybe going so far as to become LG) to better fight demons, and everyone was "we can trust this thing as long as demons exist, but they are ever defeated....."
Wow, now I want to see a former Qlippoth turned Good. That'd just about be the ultimate redemption! Also, I wonder what one would look like...

Something like an Ophanim angel (wheels with lots of eyes) would work for me. I am not sure what the "good" version of the horrific appearance effect should be.


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Tender Tendrils wrote:

What if Barbatos is just a guy in a tentacle mask who is really, really good at bluffing?

One hasty lie built upon another until they found themselves ruling a layer of hell and being stuck keeping up the lie. They just keep pretending and it keeps working somehow.

Like Razmir, but bolder. I like it. I now kinda want to play an evil game where the party has to help Barbatos keep his secret.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Paradozen wrote:
Tender Tendrils wrote:

What if Barbatos is just a guy in a tentacle mask who is really, really good at bluffing?

One hasty lie built upon another until they found themselves ruling a layer of hell and being stuck keeping up the lie. They just keep pretending and it keeps working somehow.

Like Razmir, but bolder. I like it. I now kinda want to play an evil game where the party has to help Barbatos keep his secret.

Or a Good game where they help him because the alternative is much worse :-)

And of course in the end, they are all Asmodeus' unwitting pawns.


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The Raven Black wrote:
Paradozen wrote:
Tender Tendrils wrote:

What if Barbatos is just a guy in a tentacle mask who is really, really good at bluffing?

One hasty lie built upon another until they found themselves ruling a layer of hell and being stuck keeping up the lie. They just keep pretending and it keeps working somehow.

Like Razmir, but bolder. I like it. I now kinda want to play an evil game where the party has to help Barbatos keep his secret.

Or a Good game where they help him because the alternative is much worse :-)

And of course in the end, they are all Asmodeus' unwitting pawns.

Who isn't?


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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Hope you guess my name wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Paradozen wrote:
Tender Tendrils wrote:

What if Barbatos is just a guy in a tentacle mask who is really, really good at bluffing?

One hasty lie built upon another until they found themselves ruling a layer of hell and being stuck keeping up the lie. They just keep pretending and it keeps working somehow.

Like Razmir, but bolder. I like it. I now kinda want to play an evil game where the party has to help Barbatos keep his secret.

Or a Good game where they help him because the alternative is much worse :-)

And of course in the end, they are all Asmodeus' unwitting pawns.

Who isn't?

The Archdevils, and all his other witting pawns


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Nathan Monson wrote:
Hope you guess my name wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Paradozen wrote:
Tender Tendrils wrote:

What if Barbatos is just a guy in a tentacle mask who is really, really good at bluffing?

One hasty lie built upon another until they found themselves ruling a layer of hell and being stuck keeping up the lie. They just keep pretending and it keeps working somehow.

Like Razmir, but bolder. I like it. I now kinda want to play an evil game where the party has to help Barbatos keep his secret.

Or a Good game where they help him because the alternative is much worse :-)

And of course in the end, they are all Asmodeus' unwitting pawns.

Who isn't?
The Archdevils, and all his other witting pawns

That is what they believe.

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