I always assumed the metal restrictions were part of whatever ancient pacts the orders made with nature. Just like teaching Druidic to nondruids causes them to lose their magic.
So the above numbers would mean having the knowledge to identify the abilites and weaknesses of the monster, while just knowing what a monster is would be a lower DC granted it's not a rare monster.
Looks absolutely amazing!
One thing I don't understand though...why would a monster's level be a factor in how difficult they are to identify? Generally you're less likely to encounter high level monsters, but that doesn't make them less well known. I'm sure the average person would know a dragon when they saw one.
Now that I have my hard copy of the rulebook and not forced to navigate it via my tablet, I'm absorbing things much better, and I'm feeling very optimistic overall.
There are things I feel need to be fixed, and I hope we get some official threads breaking things down by class and sections. I've read some pretty good critiques and hope it can be organized. Right now it feels like a hundred conversations in a crowded room all happening at once.
The only only thing with P2 that's reminded me of 4E, is some of the extremely short duration on some spells and powers. Feels like they were tested out based only on combat-mode consideration and not how they can be useful otherwise. When I came across those, it did send a cold shiver up my spin, but for the most part, the P2 playtest and 4E are completely different worlds.
A consequence of Signature Skills, is who can be a primary-caster in rituals. Everything we heard about rituals leading up to the release, is how they can be for any class. But it turns out most of the base skills required for rituals are those baked into the casting classes's signature skills. There are so many cool character concepts for characters like martials who learn to fight, so they can explore and get their hands on these rituals. A character like that should not have to rely on getting a caster to lead the ritual for them.
I'm in the same boat. Waiting for my hard copy to shown up and spending the last two days bleeding from the eyes staring at my tablet.
In general, I like the new skill system. But I see no upside at all to Signature Skills. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand, they don't provide any bonuses in skills, but only put a cold cap on how high you can rise in proficiency no matter how much you choose to invest. That's pretty contrary to an edtion of the game that's supposed to be predicated on character options.
I really like the tone of this thread and how everyone is keeping feedback above the bar. Think I'm gonna hang here to do some opining...
Does anyone else find the non-arcane sorcerer bloodlines to be weaker option? I'm creating a fey-bloodline sorcerer and my initial impression is that while the primal spell-list is fun, it may not be strong enough to keep the character alive. I think it works well for the druid, because the druid's other options compliment it, and their weapon and armor proficiencies provide additional protection. I don't think the other bloodline spells and powers do much to help keep up.
My initial impressions are that a lot of non-damage spells are so limited in utility and/or duration, that they never justify the cost of the spell slot. A free use of a skill will get the job done better in many cases.
Example: Suggestion is a 4th level spell, and only has a duration of 1 minute on a failed save. Now the stipulation for it is not just that the target won't do anything self- destructive, but won't do anything not in it's self-interest. It's pretty bad if a 7th level wizard, at the hefty expense of a 4th level slot, can't get a target to inconvenience themselve for a minute. But a rogue or barbarian could most likely get the job done with simple intimidation.
A lot of the discussion is focused on mechanics and power level. Personally I think flavor and theme has a lot to do with the appeal of the book. There might, or might not be close similarities between the OC classes and other classes- I'm not as versed in analyzing it as others are. I can say, people I know are playing Pathfinder because they like the different genre options offered in books like OC, rather than playing another Forgotten Realms type setting. If you want only traditional fantasy PF has that too. Just pick. I have not posted here for a while, but the online vs offline debate on these things is very different from my experience.
I wonder if the First World content will reprint the recent setting and companion content (which was beyond amazing), be new, or a mix.
I am actually very fond of that archetype, but would like something more focused on fey-like enchantments. The fey trickster is almost completely illusion based with its “fey veils”. A real problem with the fey trickster I came across when I ran one as an NPC, is that the druid spell list does not work very well with any of the other mesmerist class features- Hypnotic Stare, and Mental Potency lost much of its usefulness with a spell list with so relatively very few will-save spells on it. The mesmerist’s spell list was always very important to making that class work. Still, fey trickster is cool, just not very effective overall.
It makes me think of the other PCs rolling in the psychic in full plate like a siege weapon, then a head shot like Tony Stark in the Iron Man armor yelling, “I’m crushing your head!”I’m glad the players I game with, are either to stupid, or too smart, to try something like that.
This topic got me thinking about something that probably has been covered, but I can’t recall… Could a d6 psychic who spent the feat for the proficiency, theoretically, get to lunk around in magic plate armor and unleash hell? I’ve considered sorcerers and psychics to be pretty much on equal foot power wise, but sorcerers have arcane spell failure when it comes to armor.
I’ve been planning on running Strange Aeons for a while now, and I just picked up four, out of the six, modules for 50% off. Plus I nabbed Psychic Anthology. From what I’m told, my mesmerist will thank me for it.
Leadership is at it's best if you are using material from Ultimate Campaign, or even Ultimate Intrigue- downtime rules and such. Followers are not meant to be an army, just everyday folks that support what you stand for. Cohorts are best used to deal with minor side-quests, or to gather his or her peeps to investigate something for you. Leadership is only a problem if you let it be.
Looks like we are of the same mind on this type of character.
I created an NPC Mesmer who specializes in this form of trauma healing. I guess in a world where your village as been raided one too many times, and your wife went missing, only to return and try and drink your blood- there is a good niche for this kind of healer.
When dealing with a truly horrific, evil enemy, whom is vastly powerful, and a threat to the world- I don't see the problem with bringing him or her to heel. It's not as 'honorable' as just killing this villain, but some would see it as justice for a tyrant, by making use of their powers to help destroy other evils in the world. Of course it could eventually backfire if control is broken.
That's just one take. I can totally see where you're coming from though.
A good Mesmerist is a challenging character to roleplay, but in my opinion it's a very interesting and fun challenge.
I want to wait until I've fully absorbed the book from front to back, before I write up a proper review- but I have to say at least this much... Completely amazing!
The sheer creativity that went into this book, is only matched by how much knowledge the developers have of old occult traditions. They translated it perfectly into Pathfinder.
I feel too much of the discussion on this book has been focused on number crunching- pure damage output. Personally, I could care less about how these classes compare to a Wizard or other classes in terms of being a terror in battle. What's important to me is character options- and this book allows for the creation of some of the most interesting classes in any RPG.
Something else I feel the creators of this book deserve serious credit for, is the absolutely lush atmosphere and mood this book invokes.
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Ha! "Hello, I'm a Bard..." is probably the best explanation for what they do. :)
That a good point too.
My personal guess, is that the forums here are not a representative sample. Folks here are more 'hardcore' than the average player or GM (at least the ones I know or have met). I don't mean it pejoratively, but I don't think the average gamer is as hyper-aware of game details, and don't spot perceived problems with the game like posters here, nor do they react as intensely.
However, I can see why topics like this one are very relevant to any Pathfinder Society players. It directly effect their game.
Yeah, I could imagine that needing to tweak your character every time there is a change would get frustrating. Especially if the changes feel unnecessary.
Ed Reppert wrote:
Hm. It's a role-playing game. IOW, it's a game in which the players each play a role. But reading this thread, it seems it's not a role-playing game — the playing of roles has little relevance. What's important is how much damage a given character can do per round. Really?
I agree. Playing a character that is predicated only on being a terror in battle, feels way too much like a video game and not a role playing game.
Jamie Charlan wrote:
Could you please make your points without all the hyperbole? Anything you're trying to say gets drowned out by it, and it's a general buzzkill for the tone of the thread.
Alric Rahl wrote:
I don't know, but I suddenly feel the strangest compulsion to eat my own feet.
I love leveling without EXP. It takes a lot of stress off the GM (doesn't have to count every monster and special EXP granting whatsit), and off the player (so how much EXP did we get for that? We got some for that right, it took us like THREE HOURS!).
I agree, and it also takes into consideration, non-combative situations the players handle well.
The fact that you had that number in less than 10 minutes is weirdly impressive. :)
I'd like to see "The Black Eyed Children" in 5.
They're not as well known of an urban legend as say the Mothman, but I think a version of them would be cool.
In case you've never heard of them, their deal is that they are extremely pale children that show up on folk's doorstep, usually dressed in all-black in a style slightly off from what's modern, or typical. All they want is to be let in. They're speech also off as well. They say things like "It's food time" to imply things like they are hungry, cold, or need help. They sort of put the people answering the door in a slight daze which helps hide that their eyes are completely black with no pupils. Those that do let them in, will notice the black eyes, and that's usually the last that they remember. When the homeowner regains their senses, the children are gone and only vaguely remember the children being at their door. For a long time after all this goes down, the person is either sickly, has bad luck, or has nightmares every night they can't remember after waking up screaming.
In terms of gameplay, I think the Psychic is going to be a serious powerhouse.
I love the feel of the class, it won't be like playing the other 9th level casters.
I also like the sense of spirituality, without religion. With the divine casters, it's about the Gods or communing with something else; with arcane classes it's about shaping arcane power- with the Psychic, it's about personal evolution and the innate connection to the universe.
I think flavor is as important as mechanics; with these occult classes, theme is especially important in order to get a book that's not just another set of psionic rules.
I am disappointed that the Psychic is the only class that gets the undercasting. The Mesmerist should have ego whip.
Um... I'm not the one complaining.I'm calling out the typical snarky BS for not even taking the time to actually play test the class before squatting on it.
Hope: Paizo never dumbs-down Pathfinder. A rules light beginner's option would be good, with the current version, the 'advanced' rulebook. New players will be happy to graduate to something with more options.
Fear: Paizo stops its current level of creative enthusiasm. (If anyone doesn't like something, they don't have to use it.)
Isn't it crazy, that across the gaming community, that people are expect to either hate 5e, or pathfinder- Why not love them both??
I personally, liked FAR MORE about the 5e PHB, than I didn't. Don't want to get into an "additions war", but yeah, there was some good stuff there. Also for me personally, my issue is with what came after. A lackluster DMG, and MM- and then, nothing substantial.
What will always put me in the Paizo camp, while still looking forward for more from 5e, is the overwhelming creativity of Pazio- a game made by very talented fans, for fans.
Ed Reppert wrote:
I agree 100%. I've never understand how a show that cool and fun, could not get picked up for a season 2. Great cast too!