Mastering Pathfinder

Monday, July 22, 2019

This week, we’re going to take a look at the tools the new edition provides the GM to tell awesome stories full of interesting foes and hazards as well as plenty of opportunity to shine the spotlight on the PCs and show off how incredible the PCs are!

Digital artwork: Desert, under a sky filled with blood-red clouds. Amiri battles an axe-wielding gnoll, while beside her Linni strikes another gnoll with a crackling web of lightning, causing him to drop his scimitar. In the foreground, Linni's snow leopard Droogami faces off against a snarling hyena.

Illustration by Igor Grechanyi

But before I get too mired into details of the rules, I want to talk about the high-quality overall GM advice in the book. For instance, my favorite bit of GM advice is this section in Gamemastering on adjudicating the rules, where we flat out tell you the underlying principles so you can design improvised rules on the fly!

Text inset: If you don’t know how long a quick task takes, go with 1 action, or 2 actions if a character shouldn’t be able to perform it three times per round.  
					If you’re not sure what action a task uses, look for the most similar basic action. If you don’t find one, make up an action adding any necessary traits (usually attack, concentrate, manipulate, or move).
					When two sides are opposed, have one roll against the other’s DC. Don’t have both sides roll (initiative is the exception to this rule). The character who rolls is usually the one acting (except in the case of saving throws).
					If an effect raises or lowers chances of success, grant a +1 circumstance bonus or a –1 circumstance penalty.
					If you’re not sure how difficult a significant challenge should be, use the DC for the party’s level.
					If you’re making up an effect, creatures should be incapacitated or killed on only a critical success (or for a saving throw, on a critical failure).
					If you don’t know what check to use, pick the most appropriate skill. If no other skill applies to a check to Recall Knowledge, use an appropriate Lore skill (usually at an untrained proficiency rank).
					Use the characters’ daily preparations as the time to reset anything that lasts roughly a day.
					When a character accomplishes something noteworthy that doesn’t have rules for XP, award them XP for an accomplishment (10 to 30 XP, as described on page 507).
					When the PCs fail at a task, look for a way they might fail forward, meaning the story moves forward with a negative consequence rather than the failure halting progress entirely.

There’re tips on encounter, session, adventure, and campaign management as well! One useful new tool we added was the Pathfinder baseline, which essentially explains a baseline assumption for edgy content. Whether you want to follow it or not is totally up to your group. It’s a conversation starter; the baseline determines what you should expect from our published adventures, and we’ll tell you if there’s an exception. Similarly, for a home game, if you read the baseline and want to add or remove restrictions (or scrap it entirely!) you now know that you should talk to the rest of your group first. Lack of communication often arises when everyone has their own baselines and assumes everyone shares theirs.

But you want some hard rules, right? We have rules for encounters, exploration, and downtime, as well as rules for all sorts of environmental effects, natural disasters like volcanic eruptions, and hazards like haunts and traps. For a quick taste of these before we move on, take a look at these temperature effects. Unlike First Edition, they aren’t based on the legacy Pacific Northwest sensibilities where a day of summer back home on the East Coast would kill me from nonlethal damage!

Text inset: TABLE 10-13: TEMPERATURE EFFECTS.
				Category: Temperature: Fatigue: Damage.
				Incredible cold: -80 degrees F or colder: 2 hours: Moderate cold every minute.
				Extreme cold: -79 degrees F to -20 degrees F: 4 hours: Minor cold every 10 minutes.
				Severe cold: -21 degrees F to 12 degrees F: 4 hours: Minor cold every hour.
				Mild cold: 13 degrees F to 32 degrees F: 4 hours: None.
				Normal: 33 degrees F to 94 degrees F: 8 hours: None.
				Mild heat: 95 degrees F to 104 degrees F: 4 hours: None.
				Severe heat: 105 degrees F to 114 degrees F: 4 hours: Minor fire every hour.
				Extreme heat: 115 degrees F to 139 degrees F: 4 hours: Minor fire every 10 minutes.
				Incredible heat: 140 degrees F or warmer: 2 hours: Moderate fire every minute.
				*Adjust temperatures down by 15 degrees in areas of high humidity.

For our in-depth look, let’s start with guidelines for skill DCs! You might’ve seen the simple DCs before from Jason’s spoilers, but we have those, as well as a level by level DC table for tasks against something of that level, which you can adjust by 2, 5, or 10 if it’s particularly easy or hard. For instance, learning a 6th level spell or identifying level 11 monster is DC 28, but uncommon spells or monsters are DC 30, and rare spells or monsters are DC 33. You’ll also notice these DCs are much easier to make than before, thanks to playtest guidance through a series of other numbers, we’ve alighted on a strong set that can help show off how amazing your PCs are!

Text inset: TABLE 10-4: SIMPLE DCs. 
				Proficiency rank: DC.
				Untrained: 10.
				Trained: 15.
				Expert: 20.
				Master: 30.
				Legendary: 40. Text inset: TABLE 10-5: DCs BY LEVEL. Text inset: TABLE 10-6: DC ADJUSTMENTS. 
				Difficulty: Adjustment: Rarity.
				Incredibly easy: -10.
				Very easy: -5.
				Easy: -2.
				Hard: +2: Uncommon.
				Very hard: +5: Rare.
				Incredibly hard: +10: Unique.

Also, by popular playtester demand, we can a table of typical skills to identify monsters.

Text inset: TABLE 10-7: CREATURE IDENTIFICATION SKILLS.
				Creature trait: Skills.
				Aberration: Occultism.
				Animal: Nature.
				Astral: Occultism.
				Beast: Arcana, Nature.
				Celestial: Religion.
				Construct: Arcana, Crafting.
				Dragon: Arcana.
				Elemental: Arcana, Nature.
				Ethereal: Occultism.
				Fey: Nature.
				Fiend: Religion.
				Fungus: Nature.
				Humanoid: Society.
				Monitor: Religion.
				Ooze: Occultism.
				Plant: Nature.
				Spirit: Occultism.
				Undead: Religion.

Speaking of monsters! The Bestiary contains friends and foes of all sorts, from the classic to the brand new. Take a look at the skeleton for a moment.

Pathfinder Bestiary Entries for various types of Skeletons, including the Skeleton Guard, Skeletal Champion, Skeletal Horse, Skeletal Giant and Skeletal Hulk. Featuring illustrations of the Skeletal Champion and Skeletal Horse.

Illustration by Johnny Marrow

You can build any skeleton you need at lightning speed, and add fun special abilities like exploding bones, throwing heads, or collapsing into piles of bones! Plus check out the lore sidebar about vital essence; playtesters demanded to see more of the four magical essences in the foreground, so they’re coming out to play everything once in a while!

What about a newcomer? The gogiteth is a gross skittery critter with a lot of fun movement and grapple abilities. Can you still have an interesting encounter against a purely melee 12th-level foe when the PCs have so many special options at their fingertips? The gogiteth wants to say “yes” but it has you in its mouth and is currently skittering around, so you’ll have to take my word for it.

Pathfinder Bestiary Entry for the Gogiteth, featuring an illustration of the Gogiteth tearing apart its prey.

Illustration by Mark Molnar

To close out our monster review, let’s take a look at some friendly creatures…

Pathfinder Bestiary Entries for various types of Gremlins, including the Mitflit, Pugwampi, and Jinkin. Featuring illustrations of the Pugwampi and Jinkin.

Illustration by Yasen Stoilov

Whoops, some gremlins in the gears! Those aren’t friendly at all. Each gremlin has a special way that they make life miserable for those around them, except perhaps the incomplete mitflits, who are just themselves miserable little guys. Maybe you can help give them a social order and teach them that self-loathing isn’t the answer? If you think like that, you might like these actually friendly allies.

Pathfinder Bestiary Entries for various types of Archons, including the Legion Archon and Shield Archon. Featuring illustrations of the Legion Archon and Shield Archon.

Illustrations by Bryan Sola and Firat Solhan

Each archon represents a particular virtue, with justice and courage shown here. The legion archon takes justice into its own hands (literally) with some powerful offense, while the shield archon explores courage as the virtue of bravery to sacrifice yourself for others and stand in the thick of things. And if you’re sharp-eyed, you now know one of the other archons in the book as well! Meanwhile, on the chaotic side…

Pathfinder Bestiary Entries for various types of Azatas, including the Lillend (Muse Azata) and Ghaele (Crusader Azata). Featuring illustrations of the Lillend and Ghaele.

Illustration by Raph Lomotan

Azatas each represent a freedom. Ghaeles stand for the freedom to bear arms against oppression, and they’re energy form and energy focus have a revamp to fit their concept and be a bit more interesting; take a look! Lillends are the embodiment of freedom of expression and a great summon for a party looking for a quick bard. Plus, they are a great choice for your bard’s muse. The other great option? Take a look at the nymph!

Pathfinder Bestiary Entries for various types of Nymphs, including the Naiad Queen and Dryad Queen. Featuring an illustrations of the Dryad Queen.

Illustrations by Emile Denis

The nymph entry gives you not only low-level nymph allies like the naiad or dryad, but also tools to build powerful nymph queens like Myriana or Svevanka from Rise of the Runelords or Nyrissa from Kingmaker, with special rules for being a bard’s muse! This should make the entries for classic nymphs like the lampad much more interesting—note the intriguing and new-to-Pathfinder hesperides mentioned in the sidebar as well!

To close off, a personal note: I’m most of the way through book five of the War for the Crown Adventure Path, which I’m running in Second Edition. GMing it has been a joy; preparing and running have been much easier than when I ran Jade Regent or Rise of the Runelords in First Edition, even including the effort of converting the adventure. Other Paizo community members running in the playtest have noted this as well, including community member Ediwir, who is running War for the Crown in both First Edition and the playtest at the same time to compare. If you’ve ever wanted to GM Pathfinder before but it just looked daunting, Second Edition is the perfect time to give it a shot! You’ll have all these tools at your fingertips to make life easier, and everyone’s starting out too, so there will be tons of community support and goodwill, as well as more than a little patience for mistakes. I hope you’ll join me and give running a game a shot. If you do, what are you most excited to run first? The Age of Ashes Adventure Path? The Fall of Plaguestone? Pathfinder Society adventures? Something special you’re brewing up at home? Let me know in the comments below!

Mark Seifter
Designer

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Tags: Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Pathfinder Second Edition
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I also want to quibble with the "adjust down in areas of high humidity" on the low end of the spectrum. When the temperature dips into that arctic range, there is no appreciable humidity since air that cold just won't hold water.

Sure, if it's -40 and you're soaking wet you're dead but what you want to watch out for in extreme cold is not humidity but wind.

Acquisitives

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Ashanderai wrote:
Wow, I guess my family and I have fire resistance in real life, because we must be taking fire damage every hour or every 10 minutes depending on the day and time of day during the summer here in Arizona.

I've been in Arizona in the summer, and that seems about right. You definitely don't get that humidity bonus, as I recall.

Although I don't know what the actual effect of "minor fire" is.


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TOZ wrote:
Y'all can't roleplay in a setting that uses fantasy temperatures?

The F stands for Fantasy


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I am ready to run Age of Ashes for my family home game. My wife really loves dragons.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:

I also want to quibble with the "adjust down in areas of high humidity" on the low end of the spectrum. When the temperature dips into that arctic range, there is no appreciable humidity since air that cold just won't hold water.

Sure, if it's -40 and you're soaking wet you're dead but what you want to watch out for in extreme cold is not humidity but wind.

The footnote only applies to those temperatures marked with an asterisk.

Sovereign Court

In looking over the creature identification skills, I don't see "Giant" listed. Are they just considered a "Large Humanoid"? So recognizing that thing over there as a "Slag Giant" and knowing what it can do and how it is different from a Stone Giant or a Fire Giant is Knowledge Society?


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Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I think a better representation of the detriments of high temperatures on the human body would be to inflict periodic saving throws against dehydration and heat stroke with failure inflicting a condition or inflicting a disease (heat stroke) and stat it up as a disease or as a Condition with symptoms that inflict consecutive penalties that can result in death when it progresses too far (like past Heat Stroke Condition 3). Though, fire damage at the Incredible Heat level is probably still appropriate, but maybe have it as damage in addition to the condition.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Insight wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:

I also want to quibble with the "adjust down in areas of high humidity" on the low end of the spectrum. When the temperature dips into that arctic range, there is no appreciable humidity since air that cold just won't hold water.

Sure, if it's -40 and you're soaking wet you're dead but what you want to watch out for in extreme cold is not humidity but wind.

The footnote only applies to those temperatures marked with an asterisk.

The temperature table is much simpler to understand and apply, but it's based on this earlier text, which does make it clear that you can move in either direction for heat, to make Arizonan summers work right.

Earlier Text, Not in Book wrote:
Temperatures below freezing (32° F) are mild cold, and temperatures above around 95° F (ranging from 80° in high humidity to 120° in low humidity) are mild heat.


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Voss wrote:


I'm pretty confused by the skeleton pages.

It claims 'most skeletons have one of these abilities' (which seems rather extreme, to be honest). Yet none of them do. Should they just be assigned one for free without adjusting their level?

Skeleton Guards are 'Creature -1.' The rest are just Creature X. What does -1 mean in this context?

Why do skeletal giants have horns? Let alone agile horns with a bigger die type?

They are mindless [though the champion seems not to be, given the higher int score and languages, and lack of the mindless tag), but evil because they're about creation? What do skeletons create? Evilly create? Why is this evil at all?

The 'Creating Skeletons' side bar seems unfinished. Start with size, add strikes, speed or other shape related abilities and... that's it?
How are level, stats, skills, saves, AC and HP assigned? I'm assuming it would get the same laundry list of immunities and resistances, but that's extrapolation.

In Order:

-Yeah you just assign one of them. It allows GMs to make similar enemies with slightly varying abilities. You could choose to assign none of them, or even assign more than one (increasing the creatures level)

-It means they're 2 levels below a level 1 character for purpose of xp calculation for encounter building

-Its made from some large creature with a horn, or just has bone sticking out of its head. its a natural attack you could probably flavor it as a bone spike

-They arent about creation. They're made from Negative Energy which is a force of destruction. Using said force for reanimating things (creation) makes them vicious husks. This isnt new and has been the general theme of undead in pathfinder for years

-Its just guidelines, the proper monster creation rules are in the GMG. the Guidelines alone allow you to edit the base skeletons a bit


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PossibleCabbage wrote:

I also want to quibble with the "adjust down in areas of high humidity" on the low end of the spectrum. When the temperature dips into that arctic range, there is no appreciable humidity since air that cold just won't hold water.

Sure, if it's -40 and you're soaking wet you're dead but what you want to watch out for in extreme cold is not humidity but wind.

The inherent incompatibility of cold temperature and atmospheric humidity means you normally never apply this rule below freezing (which caused me to ignore this part of table originally), but being soaked in water SHOULD be a scenario that would apply worse Temperature Category... but unfortunately treating it as Humidity would tend to improve the Condition, AFAIK (shifting category boundaries in same direction). If anything, being immersed (partially/completely) in water should lower Category by more than 1. (or in hot water, increase it by more than 1)

Insight wrote:
The footnote only applies to those temperatures marked with an asterisk.

Which would leave a gap of "No Temperature Category" (with no duration trigger for Fatigue at all) between 94 (Normal) and 105 (Severe), and between 80 and 89 there would technically be 2 Categories applicable since Normal still applies and modified Mild also does. This almost feels like a concept that ended up partially/inconsistently implemented between stages of editing.

Gabbers "Gab" McTalkington wrote:
Quandary wrote:
Actually I think half the difficulty of reading/applying the Temperature table (even for Farenheight-natives) comes from it's presentation format, i.e. a separate column which spells out "from X to Y" for each Category, with X and Y basically overlapping with adjacent Categories meaning it's very inefficient at communicating info. (the 'border' of two categories is really only one datapoint, but it is duplicated in table)
Do you mean in the post? Those categories on the temperature table don't overlap. There's a one-degree gap between each of the categories.

I was referring to an over-lap in the INFORMATION, not actual temperature bands. There is only ONE data point needed to denote the border between bands. Unless one is to interpret 94.5* as falling outside of both Normal and Mild Heat categories, constituting special netherland where NO duration triggers for Fatigue apply. The adventurer's preferred climate, I suppose (and this identical state occuring at every Category transition).

As mentioned above, there is also separate rules text which may (hopefully) better clarify things, but disappointed the table is so awkward (at best) when this is exactly the sort of thing one would hope a quick table look-up would be helpful for (re: Environmental conditions).


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This is a superb blog, thank you Mark. As expected the monsters are juicy! And the art is very, very cool. I also appreciate the DC table, so much more sensible and easy to understand than the playtest's. Kudos also on the excellent GM guidelines.

I second those who would have appreciated a column with temperatures in Celsius. I have adjusted to feet and pounds without excessive pain since the conversion isn't hard (5-ft = 1.5 m, 1 lb = 0.5 kg), but for Farenheit I have to use Google, and I hate having to do that during a game. Trying to "think" directly in F is extremely counter-intuitive and not workable.

By the way, a wind adjustment, for cold temperatures, is as necessary as a humidity adjustment for high ones. That said, these are minor quibbles. Some sweat about environment effect rules isn't the end of the world.

Now, yes, this preview makes it really attractive to run adventures with this ruleset. Earlier I thought I couldnt afford to switch mid-campaign... Now I think it would be worth it, if I can bring my players on board with the effort required for the change.


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This all looks great! And I am so happy that they got rid of "level 0 except it's treated like -1" and just made them level -1!


Mark Seifter wrote:
Lord Bowser wrote:
Ok, now that you mention it I'm honestly curious... what does the rest of the world do about creature speeds and the expected 5-foot square battle mats? Do people convert to meters or is that just a fight you've given up on?
I think 2-meter squares (with diagonals costing 3 meters) could be cool.

how many blood are“”covered in dripping blood"meaning?A drop of blood? A pool of blood?


Mark Seifter wrote:
Lord Bowser wrote:
Ok, now that you mention it I'm honestly curious... what does the rest of the world do about creature speeds and the expected 5-foot square battle mats? Do people convert to meters or is that just a fight you've given up on?
I think 2-meter squares (with diagonals costing 3 meters) could be cool.

1-meter hexes!


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GM Lamplighter wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Lord Bowser wrote:
Ok, now that you mention it I'm honestly curious... what does the rest of the world do about creature speeds and the expected 5-foot square battle mats? Do people convert to meters or is that just a fight you've given up on?
I think 2-meter squares (with diagonals costing 3 meters) could be cool.
1-meter hexes!

No, 2-cubit heptagons!


Ashanderai wrote:

Wow, I guess my family and I have fire resistance in real life, because we must be taking fire damage every hour or every 10 minutes depending on the day and time of day during the summer here in Arizona. I just came in from 106 degree temperature just a few minutes ago and my adult kids work outside all day in this heat at their jobs.

So, um, yeah the temperature thing is better than what it used to be, but still not realistic. :)

I imagine it can be handwaved/knocked down a level if taking proper precautions (nice airy clothes, lots of water, staying in shade). You'd have probably something around 10-15 hp (human+class HP+Con) so if average is 3.5 damage without proper damage you could be outside for 30-40 minutes before suffering adverse effects. I don't live in Arizona but seems accurate to me. Especially since you don't drop dead but instead enter a dying state.


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Looks absolutely amazing!

One thing I don't understand though...why would a monster's level be a factor in how difficult they are to identify? Generally you're less likely to encounter high level monsters, but that doesn't make them less well known. I'm sure the average person would know a dragon when they saw one.


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Sure, although to be clear, that is common issue with 3.x/1E which just used "CR" instead of "Level" but it was basically same thing for this purpose. In terms of general "high power but vaguely well known" topic, I think I remember one of devs suggesting they addressed that in some way, although I'm not sure if it is general mechanic or ad-hoc "Dragons are famous".

A more specific issue is discerning between abilities actually specific to this creature/Level and those shared with lower level creatures of same broad type. E.g. it shouldn't be hard to figure out a Skeleton of Tyrannosaurus Rex has same Bludgeoning vulnerability as a Skeleton of a Human, even though the T-Rex may have other lesser known abilities. Or "look, a Demonspawn Dire Wolf! Can it Trip? I failed the Level 15 DC by 1, so I have no idea if it can Trip like Level 1 Wolf!".

3.x/1E also had creature "rarity" which AFAIK affected things like Knowledge DCs (more difficult than normal, no generic mechanic to indicate easier than normal). I'm not sure how that will continue, especially with "Rarity" having other new usages in system... keying off same terms could be nice, but desired functionalities could conflict.


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I realized why Fahrenheit is actually reasonable here is that for the longest time my "can't bother to look up the chart" rule for temperature has been "as long as you're dressed appropriately- from 0 to 100 you're fine."


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@Mark, for the baseline notes, what is the context for "edgy content". Do you mean rules edge or cultural edge? Just wondering whether this is advice to ramp up your game mechanically or what we can expect in terms of zany/out there Paizo APs.


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I'm assuming "edgy content" is "stuff that's intended to go right up to the edge of people's comfort zones" in terms of content. Think Rise of the Runelords book 3 or Hell's Rebels book 6 in terms of stuff that is at the line or "we're gonna cross it, but we're gonna warn you about it."

It makes sense for Paizo to set boundaries like "we're not going to give graphic depictions of torture" and put that in the CRB as a baseline so if an individual GM is going to push that particular boundary in their game, they should clear it with their players well in advance.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

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Pretty great stuff! Cool illustrations as well.

However, I was hoping to see a lot more allure and vibrancy from the lillend azata. I understand the need to depart from its previous design, but I would expect a lot more color and warmer hues for a celestial muse than dull greens and blues.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So many plans for GMing PF2!

I'll be starting up a new group of inexperienced players, haven't had Session 0 yet but it will likely be a follow up to the PF1 Beginner's Box adventure. Homebrew stuff.

I hope that my "main" group will switch over to PF2, and we have a long-standing homebrew setting. I might convert and run Mummy's Mask, or the new Age of Ashes, or we may continue to run homebrew content. We'll see!


....is it just me, or are the naiad and dryad queens missing some text in their action descriptions?


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Joe Hex wrote:

Looks absolutely amazing!

One thing I don't understand though...why would a monster's level be a factor in how difficult they are to identify? Generally you're less likely to encounter high level monsters, but that doesn't make them less well known. I'm sure the average person would know a dragon when they saw one.

Sure, but the actual common knowledge of what that dragon is capable of is probably something like "Breathes fire, wrecked our town." To know the specifics of what it does when it's really trying would require someone that fought one up close and lived. That knowledge is likely much less common.


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Alyran wrote:
Joe Hex wrote:

Looks absolutely amazing!

One thing I don't understand though...why would a monster's level be a factor in how difficult they are to identify? Generally you're less likely to encounter high level monsters, but that doesn't make them less well known. I'm sure the average person would know a dragon when they saw one.

Sure, but the actual common knowledge of what that dragon is capable of is probably something like "Breathes fire, wrecked our town." To know the specifics of what it does when it's really trying would require someone that fought one up close and lived. That knowledge is likely much less common.

So the above numbers would mean having the knowledge to identify the abilites and weaknesses of the monster, while just knowing what a monster is would be a lower DC granted it's not a rare monster.


Lord Bowser wrote:
Ok, now that you mention it I'm honestly curious... what does the rest of the world do about creature speeds and the expected 5-foot square battle mats? Do people convert to meters or is that just a fight you've given up on?

Depending on language, localisations use either 2m squares or 1.5m squares. Most use 1.5m because “a 1.5mt step” is actually pronunceable outside of English, but sometimes it sounds too weird and that’s where you end up with 2m approximations.

It’s all about phonetics.

Still, I’m not aware of anyone using feet. People need a real-world comparison, and even English natives can benefit a lot from conversions.


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Ah well, the game has Bulk and turns and actions. Why not have feet and Fahrenheit as made up units as well. :)

Great blog! I'm looking forward to the encounter and session management stuff.

Liberty's Edge

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I'm a big fan of basically all of this. :)

The temperature rules in particular seem like a vast improvement (and would not result in my own prior death like the 3.0 ones Pathfinder used), though I agree that there's a slight weirdness with the asterisk.

Dark Archive

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I'm also in the group that is disappointed for lack of international support for temperatures :( It wouldn't have been that hard to include when there clearly was space for it...

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Is "roughly a day" akin to 24 hours? ;-p

Also yes, devs should remember they provide worldwide amusement and increase it by providing Celsius temperatures.

Feet and pounds are far easier to convert.


Jürgen Hubert wrote:
....is it just me, or are the naiad and dryad queens missing some text in their action descriptions?

It does appear like key action information is missing. If this is true, let's hope this is not the final copy (in the book) we are seeing.


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So much good stuff here. First monster I read was the Nymph, since I'm running Rise of the Runelords. I love that art! They look gorgeous, but much less like "hot naked lady" and more like "embodiment of nature's beauty." Also very excited about having those Inspiration mechanics. I'm curious if a bard who takes feats for the other muses can snag all 3 benefits? Or does that not work the same as in the playtest? Also, if you take something that lets you add your level to untrained skills, and then you get a +4 bonus on top of that, doesn't that mean you're better at untrained skills than trained?


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The Raven Black wrote:
Is "roughly a day" akin to 24 hours? ;-p

I figure that's so you don't have to really care about what hour it was when something happened, or account for time zones.


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Technotrooper wrote:
Jürgen Hubert wrote:
....is it just me, or are the naiad and dryad queens missing some text in their action descriptions?
It does appear like key action information is missing. If this is true, let's hope this is not the final copy (in the book) we are seeing.

The action descriptions are in the general section for the queens.


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From the Skeleton entries: Pleasantly surprised to see that "Nonabilities" have gone away -- even the Mindless ones have an Intelligence modifier and a Constitution modifier. Reminded of how I would have liked for PC ability scores to be replaced likewise by modifiers.


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Lord Bowser wrote:
Ok, now that you mention it I'm honestly curious... what does the rest of the world do about creature speeds and the expected 5-foot square battle mats? Do people convert to meters or is that just a fight you've given up on?

Fahrenheit to Celsius is a pain and more abstract to show people.

(Fahrenheit - 32) / 1.8 = Celcius

Personally I am going to ignore the specifics of temperature and just use them as rough guides in my head. But it gets frustrating the more often it is mentioned.

Yards are great units of measurement for people used to meters though :)

Joe Hex wrote:

Looks absolutely amazing!

One thing I don't understand though...why would a monster's level be a factor in how difficult they are to identify? Generally you're less likely to encounter high level monsters, but that doesn't make them less well known. I'm sure the average person would know a dragon when they saw one.

Isn't it about knowing what the weaknesses and abilities of the creature are? Sure there are niche cases where the average joe should easily know and I am sure GMs can accommodate that. But for the vast majority of uses I am pretty sure that people know less about more esoteric creatures the more formidable they get. Especially in a world without internet.

In most locations in golarion dragons aren't that common, so people are likely to call anything scaled and vaguely dragon shaped a dragon imo. More educated people are less likely to do so.

Could even be an excuse to ask "what are you trying to recall regarding the creature standing infront of you" then use that handy DC adjustment table if appropriate.
Or do it as a GM in the background, set multiple DCs. So recalling the name is easier because it is well known but abilities, resistances and such are just as hard as they would be normally.


Nightwhisper wrote:
The action descriptions are in the general section for the queens.

Ah, yes, that makes sense. Thanks.


Also, the Lillend's wing placement looks at least as unbalanced as previous versions and maybe even more so -- most fantasy creatures' wings look like they would successfully produce horizontal flight (even if not necessarily efficiently) if they could be supplied with enough power, but these look like they would only work for flight in a vertical position, even if supplied with power well in excess of that needed to get aloft at all.


I'm running RotR, but will prob not move it over to PF2, since I have the Fantasy Grounds package for Runelords, and it's all done in 1st edition. Will probably start with Plaguestone for an intro. Assuming my book ever ships.
Now, if FG ever came out with a PF2 Runelords, I'd buy it for sure.


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I know the books might already be off to the press. But please please in future revisions (and pdf), or if you can add it in. Please add metric conversions of measures. Fahrenheit is a very difficult unit of measure if you are not familiar with it. So is fl oz.

Maybe the majority of your customers live in the US. But the rest of the world uses the metric system.

Dark Archive

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Chobiko wrote:

I know the books might already be off to the press. But please please in future revisions (and pdf), or if you can add it in. Please add metric conversions of measures. Fahrenheit is a very difficult unit of measure if you are not familiar with it. So is fl oz.

Maybe the majority of your customers live in the US. But the rest of the world uses the metric system.

Its kinda starting to remind me of some Japanese companies who only care how well the product does in their home country and kind of ignore the consumers from overseas :'D

Like I'd argue that including the other measurements isn't just for convenience, its also to make other audiences feel like they are acknowledged to exist. It kinda sucks to feel like creators of product don't care about groups outside of their primary audience especially when you belong to that group

(And yes, I did make thread on this back during playtest days, I think even commented on it in surveys, so I feel extra ignored :D)


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redpandamage wrote:
Why is fungus its own thing?

There are fungus creatures, fungus isn't a plant (thst is why lichen is so interesting) and lore skills exist.


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Secret Wizard wrote:

Why put the temperatures in Fahrenheit? What brackwater country still uses that system?

Does the book come with a conversion table?

The same place that uses bulk for weighing things?... I want an actual conversion table to real weights before I'd care about temperatures.

Quandary wrote:
Likewise, and especially jarring when there is clearly space in the table for parenthetical "(X° to Y° C)".

LOL If I can get a table with actual weights next to bulk for equipment, I'll think about caring about °C temps...

Dark Archive

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graystone wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:

Why put the temperatures in Fahrenheit? What brackwater country still uses that system?

Does the book come with a conversion table?

The same place that uses bulk for weighing things?... I want an actual conversion table to real weights before I'd care about temperatures.

Quandary wrote:
Likewise, and especially jarring when there is clearly space in the table for parenthetical "(X° to Y° C)".
LOL If I can get a table with actual weights next to bulk for equipment, I'll think about caring about °C temps...

I mean, bulk isn't just weight, its also the "how hard this thing is to carry around".

That said, I don't disagree that having weight around for flavor reasons would be a good thing, but I don't know how much lbs is in grams anyway so its actually plus for me since I doubt we would get both :p


I am running like 4 pathfinder 1st edition games, and pcs and I have a long list but I intend to kingmaker for 2nd edition.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

the artwork in the book is simply amazing i was soon distracted by looking at it and forgot to read the statblocks. That blue gremlin is awesome


Mark Seifter wrote:
Lord Bowser wrote:
Ok, now that you mention it I'm honestly curious... what does the rest of the world do about creature speeds and the expected 5-foot square battle mats? Do people convert to meters or is that just a fight you've given up on?
I think 2-meter squares (with diagonals costing 3 meters) could be cool.

Official French translation for 1E is 1.5m for squares. Makes it closer to the original length but even after 10+ years of playing we misconvert sometimes (we get most of our books in English since it usually uses more accurate wording)

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

About measures.
Hi, my name is Umberto Boni and I work on the official Italian translation of Pathfinder, below is our conversion table that we use starting from Pathfinder Playtest.

1 foot (ft) = 30 centimetri (cm)
5 foot (ft)(1 square) = 1,5 metri (m) (1 quadretto)
10 foot (ft) = 3 metri (m)
15 foot (ft) = 4,5 metri (m)
20 foot (ft) = 6 metri (m)
100 foot (ft) = 30 metri (m)
1 yard (yd) = 1 metro (m)
1 mile (m) = 1,8 chilometri (km)
1 fluid ounce (fl oz) = 30 millilitri (ml)
1 ounce (oz) = 30 grammi (g)
1 pint (pt) = 0,5 litri (l)
1 gallon = 4 litri (l)
1 pound (lb) = 0,5 chilogrammi (kg)
1 square yard = 1 metro quadrato (m2)
1 cubic feet = 30 decimetri cubi (dm3)

In the past we converted 1 mile to 1.5 kilometers, but this created some problems over long distances.
By doing some reverse engineering, on the TABLE 9-2: TRAVEL SPEED (Core Rulebook 2e 479) we found that for Paizo 1 mile it's about 1.8 kilometers.
For the "uninitiated", there are many types of miles in the US, but the most used are this:

1 statute mile (m) = 1609,344 metri (m)
1 US nautical mile (nm) = 1853,24 metri (m)

So it seems that Paizo used the nautical mile for his measurements.

To convert temperatures, instead we rely on measurement converters like pocket calculators or google. Too complicated to convert F ° to C ° manually.

Waiting for the US to convert to the International System of Units (SI) like the rest of the world, I hope all this can be useful to you.

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