just got through the basic pdf. It seems more complex as I thought after I was told that it is "friendly" to newbies and also oldhands which dont like many rules. Its definately not as simple as Lablord or the original red box. As already mentioned here, there are several not very convincing exceptions to the basic rules and I guess we will see alot more in the upcoming books. (eg the concentration rules for the wizard are quite confusing, or its unclear if you have to rewrite the difficulty of the modules because you dont use the resting rules which are surely not everybodies taste, or its confusing that you dont use advantage/disadvantage - generally a nifty idea - but instead a fixed -2/-5 for cover, etc. etc.) the layout of the basic pdf is ok, but not really phantastic. Even the simplest Pathfinder books have a more professional layout. What is really annoying that in my copy there was no index and no table of contents which page numbers. Also I dont like that crunch and fluff is mixed, sometimes even in the same sentence. Either this is intended or it shows a lack of understanding how modern rulebooks should be written. Really I am disappointed a little bit. I thought its the "holy grail" for the lazy GM who likes a simple but effective game system but its not.
Well in many respects I do understand the OPs issue with Golarion. Not long ago we had a similar and very detailed discussion about the Golarion background material in a large rpg forum in Germany. For me there are 2 main source books for Golarion - The Inner Sea World Guide is a work of pure art and easly one of the best RPG book ever produced. (much better than anything WotC ever released - except maybe the new Elminster books which is also good but entirely another scale than the ISWG) It has the perfect detail level one can suspect from an world overview. and -The Guide to Darkmoon Vale which has all the necessary details I like in a local area sourcebook Now to the other books - the 64p campaign books are ok but not really that great (graphically they are of course - I speak from the content). In most cases, but not always, they are sufficient to cater the basic description needs for an entire nation. But OTOH in other rpgs I am used to 150-250p sourcebooks about single nations with a more detailed description of them. -the 32p companions - well I really dont like them. I refer to them rather as "extended articles" than as books. Unfortunately these are often the only source for some important nations like Taldor or Cheliax. I would suggest, Paizo gives out a new series of eg. 120p+ books with a more detailed description for a single important nation, full with local maps, local fashions, better description of national military and politics and the description of national cities and customs. Like the 64p book, only much more into details. Its interesting that we have 2500 pages description per year for Golarion but we dont know how a typical chelish soldier or war galley looks like, or we dont know what the noble families with the most influence in Taldor are. We have dozens of pages per deity but we dont know how the ranks of Abadars clerics are called (except the Archbanker which is the head of a temple). So in this wonderful setting we have alot of fluff words but very few fluff details. (in comparision to the word count) One additional wish I have: I would love to see more adventures with alternative themes to the usual dungeon crawl. For example I think that many nations have beautiful and very unique themes which are never adressed in an module. For example Andoran. The main theme of Andoran is freedom and a kind of fantasy democracy. (exactly how do they elect their government? again a detail which is left out untill now despite having dozens of pages of fluff description) Why dont we have an Andoran adventure module which is designed around such a national theme like democracy? (eg. the adventurerer prevent election fraud) All in all Golarion has many pages but few deeper details (compared to a page count of 2500 per year), but one can hope that this will be corrected someday.
Kohl McClash wrote:
I dont understand the problem. No need to buy female minis if you dont need them in your game. Use companiens like minimarket or troll & toad who sell singles out of the set. I never buy random bricks or boxes where I cannot control which minis I will finally get. Thats like going to a restaurant and letting the chef choose which dish you have to eat.
I really like the newest package of Next. IMO its the best incarnation untill now. The last ones have been overcomplex and unbalanced. They threw out several unnecessary rules (like the martial damage bonus) and streamlined the whole package. Now thankfully the fighter damage has been scaled massively down and he got some good but not too many options. (as it should be) But the tactical module is missing. I am curious what is coming up here. I hope it will not be too complex (like 3x or 4) but OTOH offering fast and good strategies.
Oh, so many demands and requirements for a good DM. (this makes him a rare species) One very important aspect of a good GM I didnt see yet is carefully choosing his players before he starts the game. Eg. not every player can be invited to every game or combination of co-players. Maybe we should also talk about how players could contribute to help their overworked GM creating a good game experience? :)
The_Minstrel_Wyrm wrote:
I second this request. Another base pack with Desert, Mountain/Hills, Ice and Swamp would be VERY important.
Kyras Ausks wrote:
I dont see you as a jerk because you are ABSOLUTELY right in your view about granular numbers. They are not needed in a good game. Eg. Baldurs Gate is a perfect example how a combat system can be done with small numbers. It proofs also that D&D with its d20. limited but clever actions and small numbers is perfect for computer games too. This blathering about excessive unneeded granularity and "we do because we CAN..." so what? Just a cheap excuse, a sneaky persuasion attempt to get the fans on their side. And to the people at Goblin Works I have an advice: Play Baldurs Gate and you will see that its not necessary at all to have 400 Hitpoints on 1st level and a full load of overcomplex mathematic formulas to let the player experience engaging combats.
feytharn wrote:
I never said that its morally wrong to use the OGL. Dont turn around the words I wrote. I said thats its morally wrong and hypocritcial to attack fellow copycats, only because WotC made a mistake by creating an OGL and your own company is in the convenient position to be able to take advantage of this bad business decision. Copying concepts and ideas is copying concept and ideas and a copycat has maybe a legal right but no moral right to accuse other copycats, independantly of the legal situation. And if this occurs, I call it hypocritical.
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
You are hypocritical. May I quote your sentence "Robert, why are you so ardent about defending someone who has blatantly copied someone else's work?" (Sean K Reynolds) So you are attacking this guy because he copied someone else work but ignore the fact that you and your company does the same in a very big style. The existance and success of Paizo is grounded in copying concepts from other designers. Its irrelevant if WotC made a mistake to allow you to use the OGL or not and paizo was in the lucky positition to take advantage of it. I bet that WotC today regrets their allowance deeply and would love to take back the OGL. But thats also irrelevant. What IS relevant and what IS fact is that your business is based on copying 3x D&D stuff, its rules, monsters, some of the typical D&D gods, their demons (sometimes its a 100% copy like Asmodeus and sometimes you cleverly call them other names like you did with apsu etc.) and so on. The list is endless. So really: what moral right do you have to accuse others to "copy someone else´s work?" You seem to confuse morality with legality. I would recommend: enjoy the bad business decision WotC made years ago by letting Paizo free copy their IP stuff, but its not your business to attack other copycats.
Sean K Reynolds wrote: Robert, why are you so ardent about defending someone who has blatantly copied someone else's work? And how is Paizo different? (eg. producing a perfect plastic miniature copy of a Glabrezu demon and calling it "treachery demon"?) Your whole company exists because you are happily copying and modifying the intellectual ideas and work of another company in the industry. The Tentacle and Eyeball KS is not much different. IMO your argumentation is very hypocritical.
Alot of Europeans think that the US has interest in creating and maintaining the European crisis. (in order to weaken the EU as political entity and in order to distract from internal US economy problems) They point to the fact that the US based rating agencies have been the primary and main actors in this drama. To make it clear. Personally I am not that opionion. I dont even think that there is a real crisis in Europe. Its mainly based on hype and media made. which will be replaced by the next hype soon.
I am really a fan of the flip mats and the map packs. But sometimes they become a little bit repetitve. For example we have now several flip mats for forest, forest with river, light forest, ancient forest etc. but how about those who play the Serpent Skull or skull & shackles AP or other modules in the mwangi area? Where are the -jungle flip mats (AFAIK we only have a map pack but not a single flipmat for jungle) -swamp (we have one flip mat titled as "swamp" but while it has good artwork, I fear its not very "swampy". So how about are really cool swamp mat, with mangrovia trees, dampy wet areas and a small river through it, a map where you can see and "feel" the fog ascending up from the ground? I would like to suggest the following additonal map packs or flip mats -desert (up to now we have just one desert flip mat and it has on both sides structures. How about a zero-structure flip mat only with plain dunes and as add-on a map pack some overlays with desert motives? (like pyramides, osirian statues etc.) -under sea - a flip mat with portrays underwater with reefs, fish etc. And as add-on a corresponding map pack with underwater wracks and underwater sahuagin houses? -a flip mat with an abyssal area. Like the formidable Hellscape map pack but a whole flip mat Untill now we have half a dozen maps with markets, shops etc. Everything is fine with it, but they are hardly usable in non-medieval environments like Garund or Jade Empire. So I suggest a flip mats with -oriental city, market and housing (and as add-on an overlay with oriental shops and structures) -far east/Jade empire city
Architecture and Clothing guides are great. I strongly vote for this suggestion. You can take the oprey books as example how to do it best. Also I would like to know more about the military of the inner sea region. We dont know much about this. Please give military and political campaigns a chance. Dungeon Crawling is fine but oversupported in PF. How about a companion about the military and tactics and with illustrations of typical soldiers, war ships and warmachines of the major nations? The Inner sea is too peaceful for my taste, but war is a good motivator for players and excellent background for campaigns.
Well my first collectors list for paizo flip mats stands. I scanned the maps and thumbnailded them to a much smaller size for the screen depiction (only about 15cm) List one - the flip mats have been easy. but now comes the difficult part - the map packs with their nearly 500 minimaps. I could use some of the store listing pics to save some time, but I dont like the "sample" print on them, so I will use my own scans. Each of the minimap scans will have only a thumbnail size of 5x3cm or so. At the moment I am using the weekend to work on this project. I guess 1-2 weeks and I am ready with all the 500 map packs minimaps and giving each of them a catalogue number. The last step will be a storage system (most likely I will use Lisas great idea of a file card box) and labeling each minimaps. One absolutely great side effect if you combine list, storage system plus digital pictures of each minimap is that you can find as a DM the right minimap for a szene or combat in a matter of a few minutes. eg. you are looking for a throne room? Well browse through the pdf with flip mat thumbnails, nope, there is none. Then browse through the pdf with the map pack thumbnails and voila you will find it in map pack 02 Fortress, minimap-tiles 3,4,5 and 6. Last step is goto the locker, open the file card box on card 02 Fortress and take the corresponding minimaps out. A work of maybe 2 minutes. I guess this is much better than the storage chaos I have now with hundreds of unlabeled minimaps bumbling around in a box.
Don Walker wrote: Why not just check the Paizo store listing? Because I thought that the paizo store listing is not complete. Maybe I am wrong and they have every map they ever produced. I will compare it with other lists, I got.
douglasiv wrote:
Great. Many thanks for your help. Your google doc is really super and will be the base for my map list.
thomrenault wrote: They should get Richard Borg to do their tactical battlegame. I would absolutely love Commands and Colors: Pathfinder. Especially if it had rules for leaders as pcs, and letting the PC's run one side and the DM run the other side. Yeah, a Command & Colors Pathfinder with quadiran, taldean, chelish and andoran plastic armies. That would be be great. Or a more adventure focused game in Absalom featuring the different Pathfinder factions hunting for relicts and treasures in the inner sea.
I agree. Very good minis. Especially the kobold is one of the better ones I saw. Keep on making those fine minis. I bought over 200 from your last set which quality is also great. (only the troll and the chimera are a little bit too small - maybe I use them as teen monsters or so) Among your greatest minis are the goblins. OTOH I had already those from Games Workshop which look quite different. So I had to create 2 different races of gobbos in my rpg world. The Bignoses (the warhammer gobbo) and the Roundnoses (the paizo gobbo). :)
Thorkull wrote:
I met several of talented new roleplayers who have been much better in portraying their character than so called veteran "system mastery" player whose contribution to the fun of the game was only to do 100 damage per turn, but who had no idea how to roleplay properly. So, yes, a player can excel in roleplaying totally independently of his understanding of the rules because good roleplaying is only a matter of talent and personality not a matter of time commitment.
Pan wrote: So Diffan what about the folks who like system mastery? What part of 5E is for them? Could the core be simple and easy but modules stack the complexity? These people can continue to play 3x or Pathfinder. Whats the problem? Not every D&D system should made for a bunch of hardcore nerds. Pan wrote:
I am really glad that MC dont have his fingers on 5e anymore. Maybe now it its buyable for me. His anti-casual and anti-family-friendly "system mastery" philosophy should be rooted out in modern rpg systems on from the beginning.
Well I for my part like the minis of Paizo very much. Many of them are of excellent quality especially when experienced in natura. As working in advertising myself I know that it is difficult and usually quite expensive to shoot a high quality picture, so dont be so harsh with Paizo because they didnt have premium quality for a photo which appears only in such simple medium like a blog. Regarding monsters vs. person, IMO there should be a healthy mix. I especially miss nice kobolds eg for a kobold king campaign and sahuagins. (especially these critters because the WotC version is becoming rare and very expensive) So in short what I would love to see are -thematic figures for the nationss (eg. dragon empire minis, arabs for LoF or Osirion or chelish soldiers)
Its easy. If you have that few HP, just expect to die very soon. Then roll again. Tipps for survival (except to stay indoor) are unnecessary with so few HP. :) Another possibility is to play NOT a typicial D&D adventure, but a political or ecnomical scenario without combat. But thats the decision of your DM.
Generally I think Golarion is a good setting, but far from perfect. What bothers me:
-almost all countries have a similar size -the world is way too big -the world is again designed as a planet - I would prefer it more "fantasy-like" ...eg. flat (as is mentioned in a post before) and carried by a mythical god-turtle :) -no typical medieval kingdoms -too much history which fits not very well. For example Taldan Empire was founded -1281 and its army reached (distance 500 miles) Lake Encartha "only" 1600!y later in 499. And then it last another 1000!y till it reaches the other side of the continent to found Corentyn. This means Taldan exploration armies needed 2600y to reach western cheliax. (distance 2500 miles) -the setting authors make the mistake (like in many settings before them) just to throw in thousands of years of history without much thought if this is authentic. they seem to think "the more years the better"! The result is that often even simple events last for centuries or millenias. -Andoria and other 18th century influence (like Galt or Ustalav) unfortunately sucks - these countries are too modern. Eg. the uniforms (pfui). If I want to play post-renaissance steampunk with monocled generals I use other settings. -Andoria - how does the democratic/political process work exactly in this country? Even in the sourcebook there is only a vague description but no illuminating facts. Thats bad. -concerning Alkenstar and Numeria. Well until the sourcebooks are out its impossible to judge if its too much modern technology or not. What I like in Golarion:
-cheliax - best description of an evil country I ever read. very inspiring -cultures related to real world but still a little different. Great and very sensible concept. Easy to understand and play in practice. -convincing description of ethnic cultures like the Mwangi, North Garundi and Dragon Empire. -orcs/goblins are evil and this is fine. I dont like these whitewashing of traditional evil creatures to neutral or good ones, as it is often done in other settings
lungdisc wrote:
There is some truth in your words. But one thing I guess you forgot is that MMOs are getting boring in their current form, because they just deliver the same experience over and over. IMO to innovate the whole genre you have to invent a different and more interesting type of interaction between the players. For example in giving the creative players directors rights. Allow players to create content and stories for others. Of course you have to develope advanced tools for this, in order to not imbalance the game world.
While the idea of a bestiary box is not that bad I for my part only use the paper flats from OneMonk. http://onemonk.com/ These minis are perfect for D&D/rpg combat. IMO he has the most experience in the industry in producing them. They are beautiful, simple and easy recognizeable from a distance of 50-100cm. I agree with Gorbacz that the figures as shown in the paizo pics are too complicated.
I am one of those voting for a Basic Box 2 with level 6-10. The "full" game is too tedious for my group. We play mostly easy Savage Worlds and dont want to learn a complex new game system like PF for our occasional trip to D&D country. So the BB is ideal for us. While I am understanding that paizo fears for cannibalization of its main line, maybe there is a middle ground to satisfy the old customers and the new basic fans? (which numbers seem to grow more and more) 1. why not making APs double stattet or at least playable with the BB box? you could distinguish the basic and advanced parts of a monster stat with different colours. 2. give out a new line of "basic APs". Or at least some basic modules like 0one game does. 3. If you dont come up with own BB products you could support and encourage a third party subindustry with basic modules. All in all I think that not the complex "full game" is paizos future in the next 5-10y, but BB products. The company had a good idea and insight in producing the box. The basic approach which is finally worth its name (unlike the other similar products in the last years) distinguishes paizo from the competition and has the potential to bring a much needed image change to D&D.
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