I have ended up with a character with 2hp and 6 CON at first level due to some bad rolling.
What can people recommend doing during combat (tactics, tips, tricks etc.) for keeping this character alive?
I do not recommend keeping this character alive.
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Its actually not possible to have 2 hp and 6 con at first level. The lowest hit dice is a d6, which would give you 4 hp at first level. . .
If you roll AND have a racial penalty such as -2 to con and being an elf...
@OP: Regardless how you "achieved" this abmyssal HP count at first level, I would suggest the following:
- Take toughness. NO other feat will be as valuable to you at level 1 as this one.
- If you play with traits, take the resilient trait at the very least.
- Take great fortitude as your next feat. You gotta shore up that crappy fortitude save.
- Get stat boosters, cloaks of rsistance etc.
- Stay ou of melee!
- Read up cover, concealment and 5 foot step rules.
- Consider using a tower shield, even when non proficient. Helps with lots of things.
- Consider dipping into a class with great saves such as monk.
- Go for ranged attacks.
For more I need more info, hope this helps :-)
Its actually not possible to have 2 hp and 6 con at first level. The lowest hit dice is a d6, which would give you 4 hp at first level. . .If you roll AND have a racial penalty such as -2 to con and being an elf...I didn't say that it was impossible to start with a 6 con, I said it was impossible to start with 2 hp and 6 con.
6 con gives -2 hp / level. A wizard (or any other d6 class) gets 6 hp at first level. That means the minimum hp a character can have at first level with a 6 con, is 4 hp.
I was referring to rolling HP when I said "roll". Some groups do not use maximum at 1st level but roll them as well. Roll a 4, -2/level, end with 2 hp :-)
I didn't say that it was impossible to start with a 6 con, I said it was impossible to start with 2 hp and 6 con.6 con gives -2 hp / level. A wizard (or any other d6 class) gets 6 hp at first level. That means the minimum hp a character can have at first level with a 6 con, is 4 hp.
You're not really helping I'm afraid. OP poses an easy question. He doesn't say exactly how he got those hitpoints but that he did nonetheless (bad rolling).
Sangalor has some usefull tips though.
Also don't forget to use your fellow partymembers as "shields".
Can you give us some more information? If this character is anything other than a wizard sorcerer or witch then do not even play it, it cannot be salvaged.
Also don't listen to the "munchkins", I just hope your GM takes into consideration you might not bring your party up to strenght.
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As a social game, the first rule of Pathfinder (or any other RPG) should always be "Don't be a jerk." Any DM that would force a player to try and survive with 2 HP max is breaking that rule. I would refuse to play with such a DM and find a new group to join.
Now I would not go so far here :-)
We do not know the background, what the group is like etc. Maybe all of them have low scores? Maybe they had the option for point-buy or roll and have to go with it? Maybe he is playing a 3pp class with d4 hit die which was agreed on not to upgrade? Maybe the OP likes the character concept or wants to try to make this build work afterall? Maybe he could have assigned that 6 to dex but did not want to for optimization or flavor reasons?
There are too many things we do not know to make such harsh recommendations IMO. The OP provided very little information, so I will just wait for more before making any judgement :-)
Ick, I can't even imagine trying to play with so few hit points. I always thought that starting hit points were too low even when you get max hp and a positive con modifier.
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You can try to play this character. You might even have a good time. We all know that human beings are at their best when pressed into a bad spot. Your creativity and ingenuity can overcome this.
But make a new character. There are baselines to PF. These baselines became the baselines because of decades of evolution and experience. There are things that are so basic to RPGs such as PF that to ignore those baselines is to invite a terrible gaming experience that is not worth experiencing.
If this is a serious game, and by that I mean character that will be in it for an entire AP or 1-20 type game, it's not worth trying to make survivable.
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(I am going to refrain from telling you to reroll. If you choose to do that, that's fine, but you didn't come here to be told to do something you already know you can do, I don't think.)
Anyone else find it silly that a person with <2 HP> and <6 CON> is recommended to take <Toughness> as a feat? (purely from a thematic standpoint, anyway)
Despite this, it is definitely a very good choice for you to have. It's more than doubling your current HP, and it'll just keep on giving.
I would also consider Improved Initiative. You're not wanting to ever be anywhere near melee combat under anyone else's terms (see below), and if you can help it, wanting to shield yourself from any ranged abilities (magical or otherwise).
If you are playing a melee, -=AC!=- You will need as much as this and saves as you can get. Get the best armor you can, grab the first cloak of resistance that drops (surely your team won't care that much). If you go first and think you can immediately remove some threats, do so, but don't get surrounded. If there is a big baddie around, wait to engage him with your party - the less time you spend in threatened area, the better, so you will need superb focus fire from your party.
If you are playing a ranged martial (archer, thrower, etc.), then you are looking at wanting to keep moving in the earlier levels. Keep lots of distance, use your range advantage constantly. When you start to get multiple attacks per round, hopefully you will have some decent gear, so you can consider full attacking, but weigh that option carefully.
If you are playing any sort of a caster, then defensive spells are your best friend. Most arcane casters can boost their defenses respectably, though with limited duration, so consider when you might need a spell and when you might just need to sit a fight out to conserve your resources.
Most importantly, make sure to talk to your party and let them know that you are going to be a scrawny little bugger and will need to lean on them for support. You can still pull your weight, but they need to understand what your weakness is so that they can help you overcome it.
I would suggest putting your favored class bonus towards hp if you haven't already. Unless I'm mistaken, that bonus is added after your hp is calculated, so you should never have to worry about it being 'wasted' because of con penalties.
By the rules you should 4 hit point to start at level 1 with 6 con. You can take toughness to add 3 hit point and use your Favored Class for 1 additional hit point. So you start at 8 hit points. If this is an NPC you could have 2 as you average hit point is 4 and they use average instead of max. Of course you could have house rule that says first level Hit Point are rolled but you could end up dead if you rolled a 1 -2 to start with -1 hit points.
The character will become more frail as the levels go up: I would not like to play such character, a blast will kill you even on a save.
If you want to play, toughness is a good starting point. Other than that you will have to buy CON increasing items, and try go get temporary hit points. False life as soon as you can, even better if empowered.
However you will play the squishiest character I've ever seen, try playing with the idea of seeing how far it will survive but be prepared to die.
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What can people recommend doing during combat (tactics, tips, tricks etc.) for keeping this character alive?
Maaaan... first rule of thumb- avoid fighting anything tougher than a domestic house-cat.
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The character will become more frail as the levels go up: I would not like to play such character, a blast will kill you even on a save.
If you want to play, toughness is a good starting point. Other than that you will have to buy CON increasing items, and try go get temporary hit points. False life as soon as you can, even better if empowered.However you will play the squishiest character I've ever seen, try playing with the idea of seeing how far it will survive but be prepared to die.
@OP: Independently from what I said above, this is also true. You will be *really* squishy. Even a merciful fireball, being nonleathal, will kill you. If you put your favored class bonus AND take toughness you just manage to negate the penalties.
You will have to focus and spend a lot of ressources just on staying alive instead of influencing the game.If you can change the character, I would suggest you do it. Or prepare a backup character and see how many sessions this one will last. Maybe you could even link their stories, like the backup char being the avenger for the first character :-)
You almost have to take toughness and the favored class bonus to HP. Without those, one hit from a CR 1/3 fighter-type - not the toughest thing you'll be fighting - and you're dead. Not dying. Dead. You have a reasonably chance of waking up in the boneyard if you're hit - not crit, but just hit - with an orc's backup ranged attack. Toughness and the favored class boost at least get you to a point where successful attacks only make you dying, instead of outright dead. Even the dying status is really hazardous to you, since you have a pretty poor chance of making the stabilization check and you can't bleed for very long. 6 HP/6 Con at least means that you have a few rounds to sit there bleeding to death every combat instead of just being dead.
Even then, I'd have a backup character ready to roll. (Something that's not a bad idea in general, even for people who aren't playing a character that's so at-risk for death.)
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I say go barbarian, and hulk out until you die. Go out in a blaze of glory. Then hope your luck is better next rolling.
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This is a home game where HP was rolled.
With some incredible unluckiness I got a 1 off the dice.
This character is a bard with decent stats elsewhere (10 str, 14 dex, 16 int, 8 wis and 18 cha).
I have already drawn up a backup character but want to try and see how I go trying to manage with very little HP.
This isn't a case of my DM is a jerk and is forcing me to play this concept, if anything it's me being a stubborn player who wants to play off the dice.
The campaign is unlikely involve ridiculously challenging combat (HP was fairly low on most characters except for the Druid who managed to roll max)
The party consists of myself (bard), a Druid, a Spellslinger, a gunslinger, a ranger, a cavalier, a warlock variant and one extra who is more than likely playing a martial character (he was sick and absent from character creation)
Once again, the DM is a nice guy and won't be throwing us into ridiculously difficult challenges realising that we aren't a particularly healthy party.
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Stay behind the other party members in combat, use cover/concealment/stealth as much as possible, never ever present a good target for anything, especially area spells. Oh, and sing your lungs out to bolster the guys who can actually survive being attacked by a squirrel ... ;-)
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It'll be a memorable character if you can stay alive. Melee's a bad idea unless you're trying to blaze of glory out. Given how disasterous a lucky hit can be, no statted defense will serve as well as being out of reach. So, you need great perception and related powers, the ability to get out of enemy range while keeping them within yours, and raise con/fort/hp for when you fail to be unreachable. Love cleric? Zen archer? Wizard conjurer? Casting bard?
Towershield and Plate Mail.
Oh and take Toughness.
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You're a bard in a large party. Your best tactic is to stay back and use your performance to help the others kill everything as quickly as possible, preferably before anything can get a shot at you.
Toughness is always nice, and at later levels if you can multiclass into something that gives you better armour, then that, combined with arcane armor training could help boost your AC and keep things from hitting you as much.
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Thanks for all the advice. Lets see how many sessions I can keep her alive.
In order to keep her alive, I may have to resort to Bard Cake: Bard Cake
I have had the same problem when playing a bard, and the only thing that kept him alive was by being a coward, but even as a coward it did not keep him from being below 0 every encounter.
biggest thing I can suggest, is to remember that your hitpoints go down to 0 and then into negative. My group always forgets that and has killed more characters then they would like to admit.
Oh, and remember, be a coward!
Are you human? Take Heart of the Wilderness. Take 1 level of Unbreakable Fighter to gain Diehard (because, hell, if you start bleeding to death you aren't likely to stop). Get some Evasion. Best of luck :0
I have had the same problem when playing a bard, and the only thing that kept him alive was by being a coward, but even as a coward it did not keep him from being below 0 every encounter.
biggest thing I can suggest, is to remember that your hitpoints go down to 0 and then into negative. My group always forgets that and has killed more characters then they would like to admit.
Oh, and remember, be a coward!
This calls for a Cowardly Crouching Cloak!
...Except not really, because it's not a great magic item at all, really. Fits thematically though.
Thanks for all the advice. Lets see how many sessions I can keep her alive.
In order to keep her alive, I may have to resort to Bard Cake: Bard Cake
Ooh it's a she, a bard and part of a large party. Plenty of roleplaying opportunities. Good think you've got a backup.
Like Cult of Vorg said: imagine taking this one past the first few levels. Good luck!
"And in this thread we have learned why it was an explicit design decision to give max hp at first level."
Make yourself useful out of combat. Focus on that. Focus on making battles easier before they start. As a bard, youre great at this, especially with that intelligence. Diplomacy, knowledge, illusions etc. When combat starts, performe but otherwise just go for survival. Hide behind tower shields, teammates, rocks, whatever. Vanish is great. Just dont get attacked and dont think about offense _at all_.
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"And in this thread we have learned why it was an explicit design decision to give max hp at first level."
I would say we have learned how scared people are of playing less then good characters, but you know potato, patato.
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potato indeed. Making this character survive to high levels is a worthy challenge!
general tip: location, location, location. And never walk alone.
-if they dont know you're there, they won't attack you (stealth, misdirection)
-if they can't hit you, they won't hurt you (AC and cover, movement and positioning, misdirection, debuffs)
-if they are busy attacking someone else, they are not attacking you.
-if hitting, you need to win on one hit. Overkill is your friend.
-false life and protection spells is much more useful than healing.
-never go first (or last) in the marching order (stay between the healers?)
Low hp only matters if actually taking damage. Your save-or-suck defense, your offensive capabilities and your ability to avoid damage are as good as anyones.
What can people recommend doing during combat (tactics, tips, tricks etc.) for keeping this character alive?Maaaan... first rule of thumb- avoid fighting anything tougher than a domestic house-cat.
I would even avoid these! Remember 2nd edition AD&D housecat stats? 3 attacks per round for 2 claws 1d1-2 and a bite 1d2-2. That is minimum 1 hit point per hit. You'd be dead at 4 hp.
Stay at range I say!
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One of my most memorable characters was a 3.0 bard/druid/geomancer who started with a 6 con and 8 str. The game got to level 14, and by then he had 42 HP. He was also one of the most effective party members (party was NOT optimized, but that's another story). I built him to be a controller in combat, which he was OK at, and good at everything ever out of combat, he was great at stealth, competent or better in every knowledge skill, and incredible at every social skill, with utility spells for every situation.
The most important thing that made him memorable, though, was how I played him. In the 3rd session of the game when we were 2nd level, we had fought some dire rats, and my character had some constitution damage bringing his con down to 2. We killed the boss, and found a chest, which I suspected was trapped. For some reason (maybe hoping to roll up a new character), I decided not to bother disabling it, and just opened it. It was trapped with a needle bearing con poison. Naturally I failed the save, and took 1d4 con damage. The die came up 1, and he lived for the round needed for delay poison to be applied. After that, for 12 more levels, I played him as though he was almost invulnerable (but not suicidal; I could count the number of melee attacks I made over 14 levels on my hands). It worked, and turned out to be a blast.
I should mention that part of what made this possible was a deceptively OP item from a Dragon Magazine called armor of healing which was a chest-slot item with 50 charges, which, at the end of any round in which the wearer took damage, would spend a charge to cast cure light wounds on the wearer (CL 1st). It was priced at 1250g, which we realized as time went on was an absolute steal for what it did. This item is definitely and unmitigatedly overpowered, but you might want to talk to your DM about making it available to you (it should not be generally available) given your character's particular and extreme weakness.
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You know what? Don't even bother trying to build up the HP. Roll with it! Make the bard sickly, like they get into coughing fits and have dizzy spells often. She has trouble singing. But play the bard like she is a virtuoso on the lute! And her name shall be...Han Valen.
The problem is not how to survive the first level, just take Toughness and you're done.
The problem is not even that you will surely die at higher levels when the gap bteween you and your felllows widens and widens.
The problem is that you will be unconscious and dying if someone looks the wrong way at you and thus be useless to your party more often than not.
I would hate that.
Get a scroll of expeditious retreat first chance you get. Then, first combat where it looks like your compatriots will be too busy to chase you, run like the wind. THIS BIRD'S GOTTA FLY!