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Organized Play Member. 55 posts (9,579 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Organized Play characters. 24 aliases.


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I think in some respects the kingdom building elements might be easier to manage - the kingdom stats & feats mimic a PF2e character build so it'll probably be easier for players and GMs to incorporate with character growth.

Of course it'll be a while before my group starts actually building a kingdom so we'll see if it works as well in practice as it seems to work in theory.


If you like the idea of running with three players (or that's just youe group size!) take a look at the free archetype GMG optional rule, characters get archetype feats (which can be dedications and subsidiary feats) every even level. As I said I really do love that rule.


1. In my experience level 1 can be rough for players who aren't careful, once players start leveling it becomes much harder to wipe the party. Perhaps due to lenient GM'ing I've only ever seen one death. Failing quests is a harder metric since that depends on a mixture of player behavior and GM ruling. I'd say no more than other games and for AP's less because the adventure assumes you succeed.

2. Increasing the difficulty of monster encounters is easy - add more or make monsters elite. If you want to increase out of combat rolls increasing the DC by a single level is also very impactful.

There are nine roles for a kingdom and that is too many players for the average table so adding one more NPC to those roles won't be that impactful unless you make the NPC the ruler which I would regard as a wasted opportunity.

3. Action economy is the real power limit for the game. Dual classing does increase player options without question but there will be less impact than you might think because there are only so many actions and reactions you get as a PC per round.

With fewer players dual classing lets them cover the bases of a group without one player feeling they "have" to play a caster or a healer. The free archetype rule I wholeheartedly endorse for all size tables to help players realize their character concept and increase options during play.

I would avoid granting extra levels or withholding levels as the math might get wonky. It's ok to let your players get in over their heads but I never like holding my players back.

Increasing any roll target by 1 or 2 can have a huge impact on the game. Also letting your monsters play like PCs by utilizing skills and terrain elevates your game. You don't want to beat your players but your NPC's absolutely do want to beat the PC's and if you can strike that balance I think players will find your game challenging and engaging.

Good luck! As someone who left 4e for PF1e because I was not happy about the changes made by WotC I really enjoy running and playing in PF2e, I hope you do too.


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I'm making an Issian patriot inventor with the mauler and bastion archetypes, using his magitech to forge a new kingdom for his oppressed people.

My hope is to gather enough BP to create a neighborhood/city I refer to as Sparktown, an outpost of enlightened technological advancement in the wilderness with only the occassional catastrophic explosion flattening a workshop. Need to invent a working fire engine stat before the goblin alchemists show up!

I'm also hoping to persuade my group to stretch the timeline a bit to create several possible generations of adventurers across Kingmaker but I'll have to see how much they like that idea from an RP and kingdom management perspective.


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Please tell me there's an Actual Play podcast of what happened, it has to have been amazing.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
Rysky wrote:
alaiziadarkstar wrote:
Valantrix1 wrote:
Being an atheist is looking better and better.
have fun being fed to groteus.
Pretty sure that's only really evil Atheists, non-evil ones tend to turn into petitioners that watch the planes in exploration and study.
Per planar adventures that's propaganda by people with a vested interest to make atheism look bad. No one gets fed to Groetus at all. Your really inveterate atheists who refuse to even take part in the the afterlife just get locked in the Graveyard of Souls and Pharasma leaves them alone forever.

Atheists spend eternity in Sartre's hell? I think I'd prefer Groteus.


I'd run it as a skill challenge from 4e.

Set up several skills that could help progress the runaway mine car - athletics or acrobatics to shift the cart onto the "right" track (meaning whichever one you want it to take), or perception to tell people to duck from a low tunnel if they're attacking a pursuing car with weapons so they don't take a bludgeoning hit as they get knocked down; maybe introduce a melee attack option to knock falling stalactites away.

Also allow your players to select any other skill they have that might be applicable - maybe one of them has mining lore so they know just how to toss a switch as the car moves, or one of them wants to use performance to hit a high note that will agitate all the bats in the mine to cause them to fly into the pursuers' face.

Set up a total number of successes based on a DC that they have to reach to "escape" on the car and a number of failures that could cause the car to come to a halt. You might also want to let players cover for someone else's failure (up to a point, probably with an in game impact) so that one bad turn doesn't derail the encounter prematurely.


Dotting


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Mark Seifter wrote:
Just use vigilante archetype with the free archetype variant rule from GMG where everyone gets the archetype and its feats for free, and voila!

That sounds like a lot of fun and I'm actually going to let my players do that now.

Gotta love a company that makes you ask "why didn't I think of that already?!"


N N 959 wrote:
Elmdorprime wrote:


Speaking as someone who did pick Alchemical Sciences I did it in order to pick up ACD at 2 and then make studied strike bombs which gave my investigator much needed utility by varying damage type and placing debuffs on monsters.
Just to clarify, can't a 1st level Inv. make bombs, they just have to pay the crafting charge where as with vials, they can make elixirs for free, correct?

My reading was that since each time you gain a level you can learn formulas for elixirs or items - which I read as distinct from bombs - that just like PF1 you are not intended to get bombs as an Investigator; I definitely see your point rereading the playtest rules because you can make bombs with alchemical crafting; that's just me projecting last edition badly!

The reason I went ACD at 2 is 1) because I get trained with bombs - they're a martial weapon so without that training my hit with them would be bad and 2) I get infused reagents from the ACD so now instead of just have my intelligence modifier as quick alchemy up to 8 quick alchemy elixirs (with Alchemical Discoveries) I now can get 20+ alchemical items and 8 quick elixirs at 20 and I think if you're going to be playing an alchemical sciences investigator you should lean all the way in.

Basically every day I get a set of prepared spells and sorcerer spontaneous spells I can use to help my investigator beef up combat for 1 2nd level feat which I think is pretty amazing.

Granted I also took Adopted Ancestry and the Alchemical Scholar Hobgoblin feat so I get lots of free formulas and starting formulas.


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I think it wasn't picked both because Alchemical Sciences is a legacy of the PF1 investigator being a alchemist/rogue mashup, part of being a jack of all trades build which a lot of players may not have wanted to do, as well as the fact that the general consensus on the forum is that alchemy and crafting read terribly in PF2.

I'm not saying they are bad, I mostly DM and my players went champion/rogue/sorceror/cleric so I haven't even seen alchemy in play, but that they underwhelm on paper.

You also get a very limited number of uses so the impulse quick alchemy becomes very risky amd players are naturally risk averse as a rule (which is why /r/rpghorrorstories is 60% "and then this player did something that got my character killed").

Speaking as someone who did pick Alchemical Sciences I did it in order to pick up ACD at 2 and then make studied strike bombs which gave my investigator much needed utility by varying damage type and placing debuffs on monsters.

Thematically for the class it's not that much different than any investigator who has the Alchemical Crafting feat for identifying poisons or alchemical items. A cool duplicative feat would be nice so an alchemical investigator could "recreate" the method of crime (I'm think of shows like Elementary where Sherlock does something bizarre to demonstrate his theory like exploding a variety of tennis balls to recreate the smell of explosives) and get a short-use alchemical item.


N N 959 wrote:

I get where you are coming from. One thing that's different about PF2 vs PF1/3.5, is that the rules and the latitude given to GMs is decidedly from a skewed perspective of Paizo seemingly expecting all GMs to have a uniform sense of fairness and perspective that comes with experience. The rules read like they are written specifically for me (and other GMs I respect) given several decades of playing D&D/Pathfinder. However, when I read the forums, I see all kinds of GM rulings that make me cringe and the rulebooks approach does nothing to curb or guide these GMs. A lot of players/GMs just flat don't get it. I didn't get a lot of things when I started out. There are still things I don't get.

That having been said, I actually like the open-ended/nebulous aspect of how the feats are written. I think that I maybe be blinded by the maturity in which the rules treat the game/players. I would not be surprised to hear that, as written, GMs are royally screwing ov er Investigators so that the class can't disrupt the "story." Nevertheless, I think that as a player, you have to just roll with it. If the GM doesn't do the class justice then don't play it, or don't play with that GM. But I think this class is actually a story-telling GMs best friend. Hopefully most GMs will see that.

I find the investigator the most interesting of the playtest classes because almost all of it seems to be pointed at the exploration part of the game and very little at combat which makes for a very different table experience.

On the Scene being a level 1 feat however is basically throwing a literal bone at the GM who too many times has had the players roll low on Perception and just move past the plot device placed right there.

I do think that it needs a lot more combat utility than it does because combat is such a heavy component of PF2 but it's nice to see them take a completely different tack on building a character class.


EberronHoward wrote:
Elmdorprime wrote:
That's a good change but if you Study Suspect as a free action you can't capitalize on a critical success and move unless you're giving the investigator extra actions?
Yeah, it's only going to be used to its maximum potential when it's able to attack its Case Subject when it starts its turn. As I understand it, you can use Studied Strike with ranged weapons, so the Investigator does not need to linger in melee reach of the Case Subject, waiting to crit their Study Suspect.

That was my reading as well - my investigator is using Studied Strike with bombs so being able to use it on ranged is key to that concept. I just tend to move first at least as often if not more as I attack first 2when I play thanks to the way the 3 actions has given me mobility.


That's a good change but if you Study Suspect as a free action you can't capitalize on a critical success and move unless you're giving the investigator extra actions?

I've leaned towards make Study Suspect an automatic success and Studied Strike 2 actions to preserve action economy.


How often do enemies stay alive for an extended time to have multiple bonuses stack? I think you'd have the same economy now just with a broader skill choice at the lower end of character levels and if it was 1 clue to 1d6 less damage at the high end.


And I'm already planning to turn maps black and white so I can run this in noir style. Anybody know someone who does jazz on their lute for background music?


I'm going to be running an Investigator with maxed Int through Plaguestone starting Friday, I'm going to be interested in how it plays and keeping a record of Int vs. (Theoretical) Wis results on Studied Strike. Truly anecdotal data at its finest. Has anyone run an Int Investigator?

Granted my stats aren't going to be ideal for using Study Subject but I'm going to try Alchemical Sciences as the methodology to use the Eagle Eye Elixir to help make that up a bit.


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Arachnofiend wrote:


One thing I'm not sure on with the Swashbuckler and Investigator though: are panache and open case things that you should expect/strive to be always on? I'm especially confused with the Investigator on this, since it seems like the design would be to use it against important, named enemies but the ability to open a case on an entire room seems to imply that you can use it more broadly (IE, setting up in a room to ambush a group of enemies and now you can use study suspect as a free action on everyone in the room).

It seems like On the Case is supposed to be used multiple times per day since you can use it once every ten minutes. I would use it whenever a new scene opened up if possible or try to weasel my way to a very broad case. "I open a case on The Temple of Elemental Evil. A continent is big right, so in comparison the temple is a small location. I swear."


Don't have Computers. He'd hand it off to Jaxom who seems reasonably tech savvy if he couldn't figure it out right away.


I third Warhawks idea - alternatively you could put in a "dock point" that basically lets you connect your tiny ship to the medium ship with a seal around a entrance/exit point to the tiny ship without keeping it entirely inside the medium ship.


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Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
The Drunken Dragon wrote:
Jeez...words hurt.
Yeah, who'd a thought?

Not my five year old self! I was mostly worried about sticks and stones.

I lived in a rough neighborhood.


Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
The Lion Cleric wrote:

The Life Amongst the Stars

A trid show hosted by the famous shirren xeno-druid Strvr'uin (and his rather scared and oft-exchanged cameraman), the premise follows him as he travels on newly discovered planets and investigates and (mostly) befriends new and exotic species. The popularity of the show, while dwindling in recent years, has suddenly spiked after the latest episode, which featured the following scene:

"The life here on Aucturn is truly, truly fascinating. Oh, would you look at that gorgeous creature! The spiked tendrils! The seven fanged maws! Would you just look at that magnificent trail of secretions, it seems to be corroding the very ground beneath it! I'm going to get closer, come on!"

Strvr'uin managed to completely regenerate himself via magic after the incident, and his cameraman was chiefly reincarnated after arrival of relief forces.

Captain J.T. Kirk wrote:

The Xeno Hunter

An educational nature show were the host, an Android named Steve Irwin, travels around the Galaxy, seeking out some of the most unusual and dangerous life in existence. He then proceeds to agitate the wild life until it gets angry, at which point the show often devolves into Steve running for his life from a very angry creature trying to eat and or kill him.

Legend has it that the soul that inhabits the Android came from a far away planet called Earth, were in a previous life Mr Irwin lived a similar life to what he does now. Seeking out exotic wild life and filming his adventures interacting with it.

Uh, I don't mean to be THAT GUY, but aren't these basically the same?

Great minds think alike?


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Personally I'd say it'd be Eox's Navy - they're undead and therefore immune to pathogens.

Plus people would freak out about it because evil undead blockading planet therefore adventure!


I think that a lot of the insults that races think are clever don't translate that well so they're mostly shrugged off.

A human couldn't call a Vesk ugly without a response like "Says the guy who doesn't have any horns!"

You'd have to go for cultural insults, like calling a Vesk a coward, or a kasantha bare-faced.

An android could be called a play-person, humans could be called worldless.

For Shirren mindless would be particularly infuriating.

Not sure about lashunta or Ysoki - if I played a Ysoki and someone called me a rat my response would probably be "what's your point?" and probably something about monkeys flinging feces/lizards sunning themselves on rocks.

Lashunta seem too generic/idealized in the CRB to have a good cultural insult.


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Seeking

This weekly show presents a new myth, lost civilization, scientific theory or cultural phenomenon in a lurid docudrama style complete with lavish dramatizations performed by actors, interviews with experts in the episodes's topic and sometimes straight rumor mongering gathered from the best conspiracy Infosphere pages in an hour long format. Narrated by the beloved Ysoki trivid actor Sim Sadar, best known for playing the science officer of the starship Endeavor on the show of the same name.

And since people like the e-Sports idea so much...

Battle for the Starstone

This trivid broadcast of the greatest annual gaming competition in the Pact Worlds competes over replica Starstone trophies awarded to the best individual and team players in strategy or first person shooter games performed live for a massive audience at Hamisfore Theatorium. Players and teams compete in brackets for six months to meet in person for their shot at fame. With endorsements and prizes reaching six figures annually the rivalries are fierce and so is the action.

Come see players from as far away as can be imagined compete to see who can become one of the Gods of Gaming!


If he really hates it I'd say let Starfinder go given your group's situation.

If you do "break games" where your group does something completely different every once in a while I'd run Starfinder there.

I definitely wouldn't modify the system when I ran it to start because it becomes harder to do as time goes by where I'd have to start kludging together lots of extraneous sourcebooks that don't mesh together well.


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Against the Swarm

Based on a true story!

The hottest action movie out there about a Vesk & a Pact World combat teams to encounter the Swarm on an abandoned planetoid. Can they set aside their differences long enough to survive and warn the galaxy of the coming threat?


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Shamelessly inspired (i.e. stolen) from another thread.

Shirren Improvisational Drama

A Shirren acting company performs dramatic plays all over the Pact Worlds and is famous for its actors deciding to change or invent lines, plots and characters on the fly. Wildly popular because each performance is entirely differnet.


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Maybe it's secretly a Small goblin in a Large goblin suit?


13) A contemplative running a Veskarium food stand and a shirren customer are having a loud argument about whether the cuisine is authentic.


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Now that's a post!


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6) An Eoxian is going door to door selling unlife insurance.


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4) Wall of Noise, the Pact World's best one-ysoki-band, is currently competing in Absalom's Got Talent live at the local square where her adoring fans are cheering and waving her picture at anyone who come near.

5) A dwarf Swarm War veteran is hanging out in front of the local lashunta restauarant wearing a sign that says "Ask me about brain slugs."


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thejeff wrote:
Elmdorprime wrote:
Silentman73 wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Did I mention I'm probably not the right person to ask about this? I hate Pathfinder's drow almost as much as I hate FR's drow. I think they represent basically everything wrong with...
In general, most of what many think of as "drow" now are the result of R.A. Salvatore's books in the 90s. He's the one who fully fleshed out drow society. Aside from an occasional article in Dragon Magazine here and there, they were otherwise just Gygax creations that amounted to, "They're evil elves, and so people know they're evil, we'll make their skin black and make their race subterranean, because nothing good can live underground."

Or it could be that when the drow were created by looking up Norse mythology, specifically Svartalfheim, to come up with a way to make evil elves since elves are almost universally regarded as good.

Sometimes a race of evil, subterranean elves is just a race of evil, subterranean elves.

And then not actually doing any research on the Svartalfar (or the Dökkálfar, if they're actually different) beyond the basic "there are dark elves" concept.

From what I understand there isn't much beyond the name Svartalfheim, which apparently roughly translates as "land of the black elves," the location is underground, and the "black elves" might or might not have been dwarves if the name was mistranslated.


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Silentman73 wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Did I mention I'm probably not the right person to ask about this? I hate Pathfinder's drow almost as much as I hate FR's drow. I think they represent basically everything wrong with...
In general, most of what many think of as "drow" now are the result of R.A. Salvatore's books in the 90s. He's the one who fully fleshed out drow society. Aside from an occasional article in Dragon Magazine here and there, they were otherwise just Gygax creations that amounted to, "They're evil elves, and so people know they're evil, we'll make their skin black and make their race subterranean, because nothing good can live underground."

Or it could be that the drow were created by looking up Norse mythology, specifically Svartalfheim, to come up with a way to make evil elves since elves are almost universally regarded as good.

Sometimes a race of evil, subterranean elves is just a race of evil, subterranean elves.


The Mad Comrade wrote:


Insurance policies on the PCs that they are not (initially) aware of?

There's a good twist for the end of book 1.


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I'd like an AP that revolves around the trials and tribulations of working for a package delivery service for an old coot technomancer who keeps trying to get you killed by sending you to dangerous locales for no good reason.


Scarvexx wrote:
28. You just stole a short range junker with half a power cell. They parked their real ship in the drift.

Ok, now I have an adventure seed - mammoth ghost ship in the Drift that shouldn't be there because it shows signs of being present there more than 314 years ago detected because a shuttle ejected into normal space around Absalom Station.


You could give the Tallyman a weapon in the form of an executioner's axe and have his tally be a Victor Szasz style markings on his armor.

If you wanted something a little more cartoony a solar pendulum he swings back and forth while he goes "tick, tock" as he stalks his prey could be good as his way of implying it's only a matter of time before his prey gets added to his tally.


Jimbles the Mediocre wrote:
IonutRO wrote:
A literal reading of the RAW would make it affect whatever armor you end up wearing in addition to the the normal mods installed in that armor.

This is the way I read it as well - there's no text in the Upgrade Slot racial ability that suggests the armor upgrade affects the android specifically.

I would rule that an android with the tensile reinforcement armor upgrade would apply the effect to its armor when it was wearing armor and the upgrade would do nothing if the android was not wearing armor.

That's the way I'd rule it too.

I think we've had 3 posts about this since it's one of four possible armor upgrades at level 1 for androids and androids' description, namely as not-quite constructs that can have multiple unique souls possessing the same body, poses some interesting metaphysical questions.


22. Create a hackable fake retina scanner attached to your helm that drives a spike through the eye of anyone using it.


I read them as neighborhoods somewhere in the station as well.

There will, I'm certain, be an Absalom Station setting book sooner rather than later but until then I'd have fun naming them something other than Arm 1, Arm 2...


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Absalom Station is basically Manhattan in space so I'd use any TV show, movie, book, comic or radio show based in Manhattan as a reference for any story you're trying to tell.

There's lots of people, they come from all over, and anything can happen there.


I put up a post on the rules questions forum too because when I thought about it my thoughts were, in order:

1)Wait, that can't be right.
2)But it's technically possible.
3)But that's crazy, they must have thought of this.
4)Oh dear, they didn't.

Then I broke out in maniacal laughter.


I feel silly asking this (no, really) but I just want to make sure I'm not crazy - adding Tensile Reinforcement to the android armor upgrade slot doesn't do anything right?

With rules as written it seems I could make the case that if you did slot Tensile Reinforcement that your android would get the benefits which include calculating hit points as if you were 5 levels higher. But that can't possibly be what was intended.


Now I'm tempted to make a Shirren technomage.


I'd follow the AP's example myself; the best route possible for the soon-to-be beleaguered Paizo employees and any Starfinder Society GM/players worried about offending someone at their table would probably be to simply state that Shirren is canonically a genderless language regarding pronouns and Shirren go on a case by case basis depending on personal preferences when speaking in other languages.


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Personally I think that if the AP is anything to go by Absalom Station is run by lunatics since no one with any degree of sanity allows projectile weapons into the hands of gang members on a space station no matter how thick the walls supposedly are and if you have to seal the station and go level by level to confiscate guns you do just that.

There are a lot of legitimate reasons to wonder about weapon control in the Pact Worlds in general but if you're GM'ing and have an issue with players wandering around with a rail gun in a civilized area my advice is to let your players know that in advance so they can plan for it and institute a weapon "check-in" system at places like Absalom Station.

Your PCs might be able to buy a reaction cannon at the convenience store on 6 while they're buying slushies and beef jerky but it gets delivered to their ship in a sealed customs crate and it doesn't come out or the PC gets hard labor. This means that magic-wielding PCs/NPCs could have an advantage in surprise combat but that's the way it is in your game.

However keep in mind that the world of Starfinder is a lot more dangerous than our world so gun control in any context might be seen entirely differently from how we see it.

For me any Starfinder games I run will work on the theory that if it's OK for NPC A to have a reaction cannon it's ok for PC B too - but I'll be very surprised if in at least one Paizo product there isn't a world/station/adventure where PC's are expected to check their hardware at the door.


Not that it's necessarily the same but I've played, or GM'd, games for PFS on the boards where people get credit for PFS characters but have the game characters advance normally in the AP like Steelscales said.

I've noticed a few other "wait, what?" moments in the rulebooks so far so the first errata will be fun.


No worries about SFS on my end - I'll register the character if I get into the game. I'd tenatively put August Vydoc in the Dataphiles and Xander Darilian in the Acquisitives.

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