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![]() If you want your characters' deity to have an impact on the story, do not pick Sarenrae. Once Book 2 is done, you will never hear about her anymore. This is really a trap choice in my opinion. Having someone following Iomedae really helps with the story. Especially because almost every plot points regarding religion are linked to her, for at least the first half of the story ; and if your GM plays their cards right, it can stay relevant for the whole AP. Pharasma is also thematic, and there's a heavy emphasis on her at some point. It does not last long, but being a follower of Pharasma in this AP can be a real big motivation to do what the AP asks you to do and can open some good RP opportunities. (Plus there are a bunch of undeads to destroy since Lastwall is a bit of a cursed nation, with all the "land filled with necrotic energies since the big battle against Tar'Baphon some centuries ago" shenanigans). Torag's religion shows up at one point, but it's even less interesting than Sarenrae's and it shows up really late in the AP. Gorum is a sound choice because setup-wise there is a large cult of Gorum in Lastwall, but he never gets any influence in the AP. ![]()
![]() Or "How four idiots managed to survive the apocalypse". I will try to sum up my party's progress in the AP in this thread to not clog up the general thread too much. Everyone was super excited to play Tyrant's Grasp. Especially because :
The Setup We play once per month at my house, for sessions going up to 8 hours. All the maps are put on Roll20 and I use a projector to show them to my players on the table. This way, I can anotate my maps and uncover only the sections they saw, and they can place their minis on the map. When the confinement started, we switched to playing on Roll20. And... boy, it's not the same thing at all. Those sessions were particularly painfull. Now that the confinmenet is lifted in our country, we are back to playing IRL. House rules used
Other rules
The Party
I planned for each character a secret arc that will play out during the AP. Unless someone asks to know these in advance, I will reveal them once they are played out. We started playing in June of 2019. ![]()
![]() Zi Mishkal wrote:
That was a big pain point for my players too. They were really pissed that nobody of influence believed them (especially with all their proofs from the previous book). If you don't want to skip the investigation part, I would suggest having Varvatos or Heliu ask the PCs to investigate on their behalf. This way, they are backed up by someone in the government and will have less problems with working for them and actually following the plot, thus you won't need to skip this part. Stealing the shard might be a good idea. You could have them discover from one way or another that the Crows already stole the shards, make the PCs investigate on how they did it (thus allowing them to trigger Gaundry's confession without having to ask him about Gildais), and either use Gaundry's culpability to get the shard or really steal it. But do beware that the shard exploding is really important for the plot as it is written, so either you will need to rework the plot so that it works without the shard exploding, or you have to make your PCs not die when it explodes. Maybe they are still protected by their obols ? --------------------------------------------- So... the more I play this AP, the more I come to the conclusion that I will have to make a bunch of modifications to the scenario from now on since we have many problems with how it evolved. Some plot ideas are nice (like Vigil exploding), but the combats are a bit too "you can't do anything against me" or "I touch you you're dead" for our taste (my PCs are still pissed about the croc and the torrent of filth trap). My players really have a bad time with all those surprise encounters they can't do anything against, the fact they can't ready themselves/research their opponents, etc etc... Session 5 : The Redoubt Cleverquill was really fun. Peludes are scarry enough with all their spikes to make my PCs weary. I made him climb a column and attack the PCs from there, telling them it was readying its breath and allowing them one turn before it fired. There, my PCs had the idea to use Grease to make it fall (which they succeeded), and he had to climb another column to get them. The tactical possibilities of this environment are really great, I suggest to GMs to really use it at its full potential. They ended up just knocking him down, and, after a heated debate over if they should kill him and check if there are treasures in his belly (wut ?) or letting him live, they left him alone and Cleverquill fleed. I will have to remember making the PCs see Cleverquill swimming away once they flee in the boat ;) The crystal golem... Man, it is overpowered. Had to debuff his explode head so that it makes damage over time. 14d6 of damages in one go, as a sneak attack since , is just insane, especially when the PCs already took damages at least because of Cleverquill. The PCs never thought about showing the holy symbol of Arazni to the statue, and I think this is pretty legit. Why would you do it ? Anyway, my PCs used the magic key they got in book 1 to open the door at a distance. On the spot, I ruled that the one using the key triggered the golem, but maybe I should have said that it was a valid way to bypass the trap. The PCs got in the redoubt and slaughtered the knights. There, they met Dondun. They reaaaaaaaaally didn't want to free him. They even threatened to grab his grimoire (luckily he hid it in his cape so they couldn't destroy it, and they couldn't make it come back). After a looooooong discussion, they ended up freeing him and forcing him to come with them, so that he won't attack them from behind or escape. They... pretty much took all his stuff and made him open every door. Instead of having Evark and Roscasco fight separatly, I made them fight at the same time. Evark had prepared a Symbol of Pain centered around her (which was triggered by Swashbuckler), and Roscasco was hiding besides her and bull rushed the first PC trying to attack Evark into an iron maiden. From what I saw on this fight, having them be separate combats would have made them really easy for my PCs. I removed the Urannag. Yosiduin was... a bit disappointing. The fight was greatly enhanced by the fact that he had the mohrgs that were preventing some characters from approaching too much. But on himself, he was pretty weak in my opinion, especially because the obols were negating most of his attacks. The PCs already had a staff of frost they found on book 1 (under the haunted press). So I would suggest changing the staff of frost in G21 for something else. Before leaving, they pretty much murdered Leovon thanks to the incense of corporality. Luckily they went to Leovon in the end, because otherwise they could not have used it. Maybe put this item before they get to the redoubt, so that they can still use it on Leovon whichever route they go first. (Note : Evark's statblock has a typo. She should have 1d3+6 damages on her bite attack.) ![]()
![]() Scott Wilhelm wrote:
*writes down in her notebook* Oh they do want to make tactical fights. In fact their favorite fights are the tactical ones. Good ideas, I will try what you are saying :) At first I wanted to do some out-of-game session where I explain to them how to use more tactical things (especially because Sorcerer is a new player and Druid never played a caster before), but maybe just directly putting them on these situations/showing them with the help of some NPCs might be better. I'll also see if I can change some giant monsters to use more straightforward ones.Edit : Now that I think about it, last time they found an anti-ghost item just before fighting a ghost, and they used the item as soon as they could. So this technic does work with them. I will try to add more "obvious" items on their path until they learn how to be more tactical :) Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
That's a fair point. After reading your previous answers, I really thought about it. In the AP itself, it is just stated that some NPCs feed the croc, and then the croc attacks whoever comes in the "room" and does not feed it. I thought after that that, maybe, I should have made them see some NPC feeding it while they were sneaking. But now that I red your new answer, I really like this idea ! Making PCs use all their skills is really neet ! TxSam88 wrote:
I admit I made the croc sneak attack on the first turn. For the Cestus, I don't remember well (it was some years ago), but I do think he won initiative. Anyway, yes, I do let the characters who succeeded their Perception check play during the surprise round. (And when I forget my players are prone to protest anyway xD) ![]()
![]() Wow, so many posts since last time I checked ! Ok, I'll try to answer everyone. Samaphira wrote:
Yes, I was planning on doing this, but was afraid it would be too video-gamey. Glad to see that it worked for someone else :) Kimera757 wrote: I didn't find them all that fun in D&D 3e and Pathfinder either. Big monsters have big Strength, which gives a big bonus to hit and damage, and their grappling is overpowered (especially in 3e). Yup, you pointed out the exact problem we have with those... Mark Hoover 330 wrote: Barring the Cetus, the other 2 encounters you spoke of, the croc and the flytrap, seem like they just caught the PCs off guard. Maybe what they don't like is just that: being caught off guard. That's a possibility, yeah. I will have to tweak the AP a lot though, since most of the encounters... are surprise encounters. Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
I... I knew it, but never thought about it that way. Yeah, now that you say it like that, it makes sense. I will need to look how I can change some battles to work better with my PCs abilities. Mark Hoover 330 wrote: Do your players use Knowledge checks to ID monsters? How about investigation? How often does the adventure start off, before any of your random monsters or encounters, with the players spending their downtime doing research, scouting areas, using Diplomacy to Gather Information, casting Divination spells, etc.? They try to use their Knowledge but rarely succeed against big monsters. But they just got an item that will help them with that, if they touch the monster. They don't have the time to investigate and don't have downtime in Tyrant's Grasp, since it's somewhat of a "race against time" AP. Mark Hoover 330 wrote: Another reason, related to a lack of forewarning of the monsters, could be an inability to get through their defenses. I don't know if any of the big brutes you're throwing against these PCs have challenging DRs, Spell Resistance, Immunities or Energy Resistances, but if these come up spur of the moment and players aren't prepared this can make a fight a massive slog instead of a fun adventure.How often are your gigantors getting Full Attack actions? If Godzilla somehow manages a Surprise round, gets up next to a melee type in that round, and then beats the melee type's Initiative the first full round, I can see where Godzilla gets a Full Attack. If however the characters can clearly see Godzilla on the horizon, I can't imagine many of them would let the beast come at them to get multiple rounds of Full Attacks against them. Actually, my players do manage to pass their defenses, most of the time. But as you pointed out, they regularly have bad Initiative rolls. Plus, some monsters (like the croc) are designed to be hard to reach (for exemple, the croc can go under the water, and is not visible as long as he is underwater), so if they are not one-shoted, they get more rounds. Most of the time, they only need one full-attack to down one of the PCs. I'd say they most of the time get one or two full-attacks before being downed, when the PCs are not unlucky with their rolls.Mark Hoover 330 wrote:
I did warn my player that he won't be able to use his mount most of the time, as the AP is really not mount-friendly. But still he decided to be a Cavalier. He took the "Strategist" archetype and built his Cavalier like a tank/melee DPS. He has some mount combat feats (Mounted Combat and Ride-By-Attack) but was only able to use those once, because there was one time when they were outdoor. He couldn't take his horse in the sewers. From what I can remember, he wants to use those feats when our Sorcerer will be able to change into a dragon to mount her (I accepted). Now I'm kinda wondering if it would not be better to tell him to change those feats... From what I know of the rest of the AP, he will probably use his mount once or twice, if the mount is not killed because of the scenario. Mark Hoover 330 wrote: Lastly, when you make random encounter lists or look up a quick monster that you think would be fun to throw at the PCs, how often do you take a quick inventory of the PCs themselves before you make your choices? I mean if you've got a sorcerer/dragon disciple that LOVES throwing Fire spells and uses direct damage to win fights, picking a Gargantuan Fire Elemental at the party might kind of negate the sorcerer's powers. I usually don't use random encounters and choose my monsters in advance when I want to add one, but I will keep this in mind :) Mark Hoover 330 wrote: On a larger scale, looking at the party you described: Cavalier, Swashbuckler, Word Druid and Sorcerer [...] The Cavalier is primarily an armored, sword-and-board tank, with high AC and hp and an ok melee DPR, and wants to become a Knight of Ozem. He attracks attacks and defends the other PCs while giving them team feats. The Swashbuckler is the main melee DPR with the ability to reach up to 3 squares, with to do rotating attacks and deal massive damages (as long as the enemy is not immune to precision damages), with an okay AC. He gains his abilities back by doing non-lethal damages and destroying undeads (which is perfect for this AP).The druid and the sorcerer both are magic DPR, with the sorcerer also being an ok melee DPR that can take up melee damages (high Con/hp and okay AC for a melee), while the druid is the glasscanon (very low AC and HP) and the group's healer. The druid only wildshapes into a crow and sometimes an elemental, and it's mostly to scout or cast spells while being out of reach or blending into the environment. He never used it to attack. The sorcerer often goes to melee attack, unless the monster seems really dangerous (like the croc), then she blasts it from far away. Mark Hoover 330 wrote: As yet another compromise to cheer your players up, along with other's suggestions, have you ever thought of making UNDER powered encounters? What about a random encounter with a CR 13 amount of ogres led by an ogre magi? No one monster poses much of a threat and even the "boss" type has little chance to affect the characters much. On the other hand the PCs, who once would've been utterly destroyed by a warband of minor giant types, get to wail on these foes and feel like the superhumans they are. Yes, nice idea, I will try to do this from time to time ! I check if I can do this with some of the ennemies they already fought against :) blahpers wrote:
My players are still traumatized by this freakin' furnace :,D Mark Hoover 330 wrote: One of the encounters mentioned above is described as an "evolved" dire crocodile. Sorry, language barrier. It's the simple archetype where you add +1 to the CR of the creature. Mark Hoover 330 wrote: At a +8 Stealth in the water it may not have gotten spotted, fine, but that doesn't mean there aren't signs of it's existence. Even though it can Swallow Whole that doesn't mean it consumes the whole meal. A Gargantuan sized dinosaur likely needs feed itself with tens of thousands of calories of meat per meal; bones should absolutely litter the sewer stream here. I would agree with you, but in context it's not possible. From what the AP tells the GM, you can't see through the water (it's muddy), and the bones are underwater. You only know there "some dangerous beast" there if you did a secondary quest before - which my PCs did, so I gave them this info. Mark Hoover 330 wrote: Then think: why are the PCs down here? 4 PCs, APL 10; it's a pretty good bet the AP has a specific mission in mind for the characters. Does having to fight and slay this thing meet the requirement for victory? An animal type creature might be frightened away from their potential meal, even if they're bigger than their meal, by things like overwhelming damage, fire, jarring noise, etc. If the characters are clever and try using Knowledge: Nature, Survival, and so on to identify these animalistic tendencies, think about rewarding their ingenuity so that you encourage more of it in the future. Once again, I agree with you, but I just want to point out the context to answer your question. Here, the mission is to cross a sewer stream. The water is filthy and makes you ill if you step in it. There are some wooden planks you can use to make a bridge. The sewer stream is guarded by this giant croc. In its statblock, it's stated that the croc fights to the death, unless it is fed. Still, I agree, I should have made the croc flee once the players did damage it instead of following the "fight to the death" strategy, or find something else. It seems I really need to learn how to distance myself from the official material, and try to tailor my encounters to suit my PCs. Once again, thanks to everyone for their wonderful tips ! This thread really made me think about how to be a better GM more than before I started it :) ![]()
![]() Hi there I am currently working on an electronic bestiary (French only, sorry) that automatically computes statblocks. I wanted to test it out on my next game of Tyrant's Grasp, but then I tried to add some creatures and the natural attacks maths seem... off. I wanted to know if it was me that forgot some rules, or if the statblocks are indeed wrong. The problem arises from ennemies capable of using manufactured weapons and natural attacks. As a reminder, here are the rules : Quote:
So, I tried to reconstruct one of the ennemies*. They're a tengu with 18 in Strength, and no feats nor abilities granting them extra damage. But when I compute their attacks, I get : "Melee +2 heavy flail +13/+8 (1d10+8/19–20) or bite +11 (1d3+6)"While on their official statblock they have : "Melee +2 heavy flail +13/+8 (1d10+8/19–20) or bite +11 (1d3+4)" It seems like the bite damages are calculated by adding their normal Strength modifier to their damages. But, as I understand the rules, since they only use their bite for the second combo, they should add their Strength x1.5 (only one natural attack in this attack because of the "or", and they are not able to make another natural attack). I tried looking for other official statblocks similar to this one. I found some, and it seems like, as long as they have at least one manufactured weapon, even if they can only make one natural attack, they only add their Strength as damage once if they only attack with their natural attacks, so 1d3+4 for our NPC. This seems consistent with the official Paizo statblocks (for exemple, the canibal ) But I found some threads (notably this one) where players tend to say the opposite, and that this NPC should use their bite at 1d3+6 damages. Plus, it seems strange to me that your only natural weapon becomes less efficient as long as you potentially can use a manufactured weapon. If you are using a weapon in the same attack, sure, since you are less focused on your natural attack. But otherwise ? Does that mean I have to re-calculate the damages if the monster grabs a weapon that was not in their statblock ? Same thing when they are disarmed and can only rely on their unique bite attack ? I'm kinda lost, so I need your help to figure this out @_@ *The NPC I'm talking about: Evark Nox from book 3 ![]()
![]() Greylurker wrote:
Yes, I agree with you. We were talking about it with my players, and they said that they liked another battle where terrain was a major factor, even though the ennemies were dealing them no damages, because they really had to use the terrain to progress in the battle :) Lady Asharah wrote:
Well... I have to admit that this encounter in particular was set up like a pseudo-random encounter to spice up a travel. I wanted to try and add an unusual monster, and I had decided on the monster too late to give hints... My bad ^^" This resulted in our full caster not having petrification spells prepared. Quote: If the party has no full spellcaster, do they have anyone who can use wands? scrolls? Giving out an unusually specific piece of loot can be a portent of things to come ("So *that's* why we found the Scroll of Stone to Flesh last month"). Yes, that's something I'm trying to do more and more. I try and swap the scenario's loot for items that are useful to the party in terms of party members' abilities and what types of monsters they will encounter. Quote: Charm Monster would also have a decent chance of working and it would result in a hilarious effect of this extremely powerful creature now escorting the PCs and their ship to safety. Well, my players did reanimate as a skeleton the linorm they killed just after this battle to escort them... I'm not a fan of Charm spells. I feel like they tend to break the game too much. My players know this, so they refrain from using it. ![]()
![]() Serisan wrote:
Hmm... If you see it this way, that makes sense. I have to admit I'm not a "Golarion" expert, so I did not think about the forest x) I still have some questions and remarks though, if you don't mind :) Isn't Caliphas supposed to be a relatively safe place where people could hide, since Tar Baphon seems more interested in destroying Lastwall right now ? That said, this would mean having a deal with Caliphvaso to take in the citizens of Vigil in her city. And with the south-west border of Ustalav being Vyrlich, it may not be really safe to sail this way (as evidenced by the attacks at the start of the next book). I don't know enough about the Isle of Terror and Hallein Town though (I only DMed Carrion Crown in this area). I'm curious now. Has someone had their group try to convince the NPCs to go to the east ? If so, what did you do ? ... Okay, now that I'm typing here, I'm even more curious about something else. Do we know what the other countries are doing meanwhile ? Especially Ustalav and Nirmathas ? What about the Palatine Eye Order ? ![]()
![]() Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
You, sir, deserve a medal. Thank you :) ![]()
![]() I always play scholars (mostly spellcasters) and silver-tongued characters, since I like gathering lore and interacting with NPCs. Most of the time I end up being the party face, and if not I at least can stand my ground in terms of social encounters when I need to. People with high charisma and intelligence, and most of the time low wisdom. I am currently playing with a group where everyone wanted to be a party face. So... in the end, I gave my seat to the other players and I'm playing a very polite but mostly silent and docile noble lady (slayer). She's not really good at talking to people and prefer letting others do the negociations. She's also not very clever - or at least feels less clever than most people - and puts her faith in the intelligence of her companions. It's... really hard sometimes. I have to force myself to not speak and let others do their job, even when they are terrorizing or angering key NPCs because the other PCs are pragmatic as heck or when they don't think about searching for something. It's a really humbling experience. But at least I can focus on being a murder machine with a big scythe >:) ![]()
![]() Not sure if this has been said already, but, first, revise the summoning system and update the list of summonable monsters. Summoning is weak if you are not a Summoner because you have your summon for 1/lvl rounds. And the summonable monsters' list is so outdated and unbalanced... After you reach the second half of the list, most of the creatures are demons and devils. Plus, there are so many fun creatures from the newest bestiaries that you could summmon, such as new demons/devils/angels, daemons, psychopomps, animals, etc etc... Also, another alternate spellcasting system, something other than vancian casting. Or at least some new content for Word-casting. Plus, balancing and adding support for more classes for Mythic adventures. Post-Mythic adventures classes and some older classes such as Summoner really have a bad time as mythic characters. There's not enough options in my opinion. Finally, a comprehensive book/article about how to properly create a dungeon and/or an "adventuring day". Balancing your encounters without making a "1-encounter day" is a lot of trial and error to me. ![]()
![]() I once played a bartender, Mary Daniels. Mechanically speaking, she was an Alchemist with the Infusion discovery. Naratively speaking, she was a bartender so talented in her craft that she was able to brew magical alcohols that gave incredible powers to those who drunk it or had the power to heal them, and liked throwing molotov cocktails. She tried selling alcohol to some NPCs in order to solve the group's problems. Every time she had some rest, she would tinker with her portable alambics to create new recipes. She was also a drunkard, but unable to be drunk thanks to her poison immunity (we ruled that alcohol acted as poisons) after drinking so many magically enhanced alcohol. Her liver was in such a bad shape that its cancerous cells developped their own will and became a Tumor Familiar under her command. ![]()
![]() There are metamagic feats that allow you to conteract some undeads' immunities : thanatopic spell and threnodic spell. I don't know if they would interest you, but you might want to take a look at them. Just, be sure to talk about them with you DM since it can easily break some encounters. ![]()
![]() Scott Wilhelm wrote: (...) Well, as much as I know, Jabberwocky was a real challenge for translators. There's even a book about the multiple attempts to translate this poem. They had to keep the rhytmic quality, but in a way understandable for French people. So there were multiple attempts at translations. For the Jubjub bird, I saw "JeubJeub", "Jubjube", "Jub", etc etc... For "Jabberwocky", it either stays "Jabberwocky" or become "Jabberwock" or "Jaseroque". The most outlandish translation I saw was "Bredouloch". "Frumjous" was translated with "frumieux". The same root ("frum"), to which they affixed one of the classical suffixes used to create adjectives ("ieux"). "Brillig" was sometimes translated by "reveneure". It still doesn't make sense. Other nonsense-words in the poem had the same treatment : either take the same root and apply a french suffix to tell your reader what type of word it is, or translate it with another senseless word. But even with all this, in the end, "Jube-jube" is the translation created by the French translators of Pathfinder, not of the poem. They did not have to care about how well it worked in the poem, since it wasn't for the poem they were translating, but for the RPG. "Jube-jube" is probably said the same way than "jubjub", it's just a different, more "Frenchy" way to write it (the "e" at the end of words is silent most of the time, and "b" and "j" are weird letters to put one after the other in French). "Jabberwocky" and "Bandersnatch" were not translated because their pronunciation is feasible in French and there are no "weird association of letters" in their name. Quote: English lyrical poetry tends to be structured around patterns of rhyming the last words of each line (...) Is end-rhyme scheme even a thing in lyrical French poetry? Dude... French poetry is all about end-line rhyming and rythm. When we learn about poetry in school we learn at least about half a dozen ways to make rhyming patterns. We had our prose period, sure, but most of our greatest poets were using rhymes. Even when you look at modern-day music, French singers will rhyme as if their life depended on it. While I saw many singers not rhyme in English and give more attention to rythm and images, or prefer words that sound like they end the same way but not exactly (chain/claim for exemple). Quote: But in English it is typical for the adjective to come before the noun it modifies: I don't know what a bandersnatch is, but I do know it is the frumjous ones I need to be aware of. Regular bandersnatches, not so much. But in French, the adjective normally comes after, and that means that it is the frumjous that you must be aware of, particularly the bandersnatch variety of frumjous. Referring to les bandershatches frumjus seems presume meaning on words that were created to have no meaning at all! That's a false assumption. French is more flexible than English about where to place the adjective (from what I know about the English language). You can either place the adjective before or after the noun it modified. That allows you to emphasis either on the noun or on the adjective. Sometimes it's even preferred to put adjectives before nouns because it's "more beautiful". It's just that you may not know about it because nowadays, in talked French, we mainly put adjectives after the noun because it's easier, and putting adjectives before nouns in talked French will probably make you look like a pompous person. But you can find adjectives before nouns in books, in speeches, and in any instance where you need to carefully and "beautifully" craft your sentences. For exemple, if I were to translate "the gigantic barbarian" in French, I can either say "le barbare gigantesque" (adjective after noun) or "le gigantesque barbare" (adjective before noun). Both translations are correct. But in the first case I emphasis the fact that our character is a barbarian, and in the second I emphasis the fact that they are garguantuan. Quote: What about iambic, trocheic, dactylic, and anapestic metrical feet? I'm... not a poetry expert, but according to Wikipédia, yes we have those. ![]()
![]() Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Dunno. I just find the French name even funnier than the English one. Plus I'm French, so I'm more used to the French name. ![]()
![]() My all time favorite is the Jubjub ("Jube-Jube" in French). Everything about it makes me to cackle maniacally. First, the name. I find it hillarious, I don't know why. Then, the appearance. It's a freaking giant saurian dodo. Look at the majesty of this smug beast. And those little wings.
I also quite like Kobolds, not as much as ennemies than as a whole specie. I like the Pathfinder Kobolds' lore with them being more scaly and less courageous dwarves with a knack for traps. ![]()
![]() Murawt wrote:
Same here. The battle is not that hard when you have someone with huge damages and someone else able to give them flanking. Cavalier and Swashbuckler pummeled her with Power Attacks and that was it. ![]()
![]() wkover wrote:
I agree that Before Acting powers are common, and sadly there are no easy ways to prevent them. The Dog is one of those ways, I'm not sure about others. Maybe you were luckier than me, but in my plays After Acting powers were my bane. Losing 1d4 cards from your hand when you are an Ezren without your False Life and already have to use a bunch of cards to explore and/or when you are low on life, or taking a Scourge without being able to make a roll to prevent it is a pain. Or maybe it just depends on which character you play with which builds (I suppose most After Acting powers are not very painful for a healing specialize Kyra, for exemple). ![]()
![]() Bob Bob Bob wrote: So I see two specific problems. First, you're using Huge+ monsters as bosses or mid-bosses (solo monsters of higher CR). Of course your players aren't going to have fun with Huge+ creatures if every one is a boss-level fight (unless they really love just the boss fights, I guess). Second, and somewhat tied into the first, you seem to favor a specific kind of scenario (giant monster surprises players) which is even more difficult for the players. Fair point. I will keep it in mind. This confirms to me that I should better use less powerful creatures. And yes, it's true now that I think about it that there are too many "surprise encounters" in the encounters my players are the most disatisfied with. Bob Bob Bob wrote: That Croc has a Stealth of +8. It's not impossible it got the drop on the players but it is unlikely. The Giant Flytrap is explicitly designed to do just that. Turning characters into the stars of a horror movie is only fun if that's what the players want. Playing Strange Aeons? Sure. Playing Giantslayer? Probably not. It's funny you said that. Because the croc and the flytrap are indeed encounters from a horror story : those are two encounters in Tyrant's Grasp, the AP I am currently running. I warned my players about the story being in the survival horror genra, but "throwing big monsters that can one-turn them" is not what they would qualify as horror. Still, I take notes on your remarks for when I will try to create my own adventures and in order to modify the AP a bit so that my players can be a bit more prepared and have funnier battles :) ![]()
![]() SheepishEidolon wrote: Personally, I'd try to warn my players that something very powerful comes their way. That could be giant footprints, the crushed remains of powerful other creatures or a closing thundering. So they might have the choice between fight and flight. Or at least the chance to prepare, both mentally and mechanically. And if they flee, still I would have established that really dangerous creatures roam here. Okay, I will keep that in mind and try to warn them more in advance. SheepishEidolon wrote: If they had real trouble with Huge+ creatures (which not necessarily equates very powerful), I'd give them some hints how to fight them. Reach weapons, specialized feats (Just out of Reach) and size increasing magic come to my mind. I have to admit I never thought about talking with my players about how to defeat such and such types of monsters, since most of them are more experienced than me. I will give it a shot :) SheepishEidolon wrote:
*takes notes* Gotcha. Thank you for your advices :) Quixote wrote:
And that's only its bite attack. You add to that the Combat Reflexes which cancels most repositioning options with its 21 Dex, the SR 24 which cancelled most of the Witch's attempts at casting spells on it, and the Mariner's Misfortune which makes you 50% less effective. And a free grab with its bite attack with a +46 to grapple, doubling the damages from the bite if it succeeds, at triggering Swallow Whole the next turn. Even with 20 to Dex and Str a level 13 character would have at most 33 to their CMD. I feel like the more recent the bestiary is, more Huge+ creatures' CRs are weird. Maybe there's a way to rectify a monster's CR depending on its damages ? Quixote wrote:
Oooh, Shadow of the Colossus style, I really like the idea ! :) It will be a bit difficult to have something like that for every single encounter, but thinking up alternate methods such as this one can be interesting for some of them. GeneticDrift wrote: Use lower cr giants Yeah, maybe using lower CRs might be a good idea. Something like CR-1 for regular fights, and CR +1 for boss-fights maybe. But in that case, I may need to give them some extra HPs so that my players don't one-shot them either. GeneticDrift wrote: and don't make up the cr by using more giants? Sorry, I did not understand this part of your sentence ^^" ![]()
![]() Reksew_Trebla wrote:
Most of the time, no. But sometimes there will be surprise attacks, or the monster is revealed and the wizards are too close to it and are in its range. For exemple, the Druid will check on a bush where a big plant is hidden, or they will disturb a Putrid Ooze chilling in a hole, or they will approach a living tree without noticing that it's a monster and not just a normal tree. Reksew_Trebla wrote: Are you stacking templates? No. For big monsters, I don't usually use templates, and I never used more than one template as of today regardless of the monster. Reksew_Trebla wrote: Are you throwing things way too high of CR for the party? Unless I want to create an obstacle which my PCs are not supposed overcome (which is not the case for those battles with which I am having problems), I always keep my CRs between group level and group level +2, with using the latter for (mid-)boss-fights. Reksew_Trebla wrote: Are you allowing the players downtime to retrain their hp to at least average if not max? No, we don't play with downtime rules on most of my games because the APs I played usually don't allow downtime (Carrion Crown, Tyrant's Grasp). For their HP rolls, they have the choice between choosing the average roll on their dice (so for exemple 5 for a d8), or rolling for HPs. If they roll for HPs, they can reroll once if they rolled a 1. Most of the time they choose the average roll method. Reksew_Trebla wrote: Did you give them less than a 15 point buy (dice rolling is always wrong, as it will never create anything close to balanced)? I give my players 20 points. ![]()
![]() Session 3 : The sewers So, last month we started the sewers section. I'm globally satisfied with this session. I used the first seal-breaker knights to dump some infos on Yosiduin and the otyughs while arguing with each other as suggested by the scenario. The battle went pretty well. One knight has been sent in the water, soon joined by the Cavalier who failed his acrobatics skill check after the Sorcerer fumbled her own skill check while she was trying to pass his square (I ruled that the section they were on was too slippery and small for them to pass each others space without problems). The Druid was hidden in the water as a Water Elemental and casted spells from afar to help the others, while the Cavalier was desperatly fighint with the submerged knight while the Sorcerer tried to help out with her reach weapon, and the Swashbuckler and Jando were fighting the other knights. The battle went on pretty long. There was an Indiana Jones moment with a Knight and the Swashbuckler gauging each other front accross a bridge for one round, swords in hands, before the Swashbuckler whiped out his arbalet and shot the Knight, enraging him enough to make him charge on the brigdge... for the Druid to Vortex him to death. They managed to keep one Knight alive, but decided to keep going in case they lose the other Knights tracks. They met with the Otyughs. The encounter went on pretty well, with the PCs parleying with the Otyughs and promising to defeat the knights (while awkwardly trying to dodge the subject of the soothsayers to not tell the Otyughs they were the ones who killed them) and recovered the Glove of Storing. It took them some times before thinking about checking if something was stored in it. The Cavalier discarded his own scabbard, which was promptly taken by the Otyughs. Jokes about the poor next party of adventurers who would have to settle for a normal scabbard as a gift of thanks from the Otyughs ensued. Even though they were warned about Old Leatherback, the combat was tough. I had put the Evolved archetype on the dire crocodile so that it would not die too quickly, but that was a big mistake. Sorcerer and Druid were enough in the back to be able to cast, but after one or two turns Old Leatherback one-shoted Cavalier after a nasty death roll. It's a miracle that Swashbuckler did not get hit, and he had to focus on defense to dodge every attack while not being able to hit himself. I kind of aggravated the fight when I said that Old Leatherback went back underwater on turn 2, making it untargettable by anyone except Druid who was still a Water Elemental... My players really did not like this battle. Old Leatherback already deals massive damages, and evolving it really was not a smart move in retrospect. Anyway, Fireballs and Explosion of Electricities were dispensed in large amount. They arrived just before the door to the redoubt at the end of this session. Session 4 : Unexpected discoveries This session started on a great start. The players were sure the door was trapped. They went on to examine the door... but did not think about checking the floor in front of it. Two characters were hit by the trap. The trap dealt so much damages that I stated that the characters could get out of the area of effect by crawling for one turn, because otherwise I would have two kills. Between this and the previous session, everyone is ill (except for Druid who is immune to illnesses at this point). Druid summoned an Earth Elemental to the other side of the door, since he could see through the crack between the doors, and asked the elemental to open it for them. The knight immediatly casted their Protection spell to make the Elemental unable to approach them and remained hidden. As usual, Sorcerer was ready to cast a Fireball in the room to kill everyone, but was convinced otherwise in case the barrels contained explosive materials. In the end it was Druid who casted his Explosion of Electricity. My players sure love their AoE spells. The rest was pretty uneventful until they discovered the Bloodstone. They destroyed the statues, triggered the haunt (my players hate haunts because they can't do anything about them, but at least it gave some backstory to this place and allowed them to confirm that these ruins are linked to Arazni), and explored the overgrown temple. Snapper was a tricky battle since he grappled Cavalier pretty quickly, but other than that things went well. Then they explored the temple and fount the Bloodstone, which was standing in a pool of blood. "Awesome, some urn that has an aura so powerful that it blinded Druid, sitting in a pool of blood. This is not creepy at all" said Cavalier in a creeped out voice. They retrieved the Bloodstone, gave it to Druid (who was pretty happy with his new toy), and now are resting in the overgrown temple after being offered to do so by the Sump Steward. Spoilers in case my players come accross this: Now, Druid is a Samsaran. So I intend to have his first life being the one of a faithful servant of Arazni from back when she was alive, who managed to sneak in Geb and retrieve the bloodstones to hide them from Geb in an attempt to free Arazni. So, when he touched the bloodstone, he had a vision of him running with it while being chased, and then being teleported to the temple when it was still inhabitted. This will allow me to foreshadow a bit more his connection with Arazni, so that the group will be more likely to work with her in book 4. ![]()
![]() I did not see your post earlier, hope I'm not too late. Zi Mishkal wrote:
I would suggest a worst case scenario and find a way to give them the rewards at a later time, without having them report. My players wanted to do everything ASAP too. I mitigated the problem by telling them the night was settling once they returned from the watch post, and then telling them they are starting to get really tired and that they were deep in the night after they saved the dwarves.If they want, allow them to go find the different NPCs where they normally work during the night or early in the morning (like the church for Varvatos) so that they can talk to the NPCs outside of the "normal hours" once they met them at least once. For number 2, Serisan already said it all. You will see that a big amount of the campaign will count on the players being "good hearted heroes" more and more frequently. Zi Mishkal wrote:
Serisan wrote:
Even though your explanation makes sense, Serisan, I still think that it would be more logic to have the boat go away from Virlych rather than closer. There's no explanation in the book itself that tells us it's because Ulthun is there. I think the surviving spellcasters should send him a magical message instead of throwing citizens in the maw of the beast on the offchance that Ulthun can save them. I agree with your idea of having multiple vessels. You can even make the giant turtle destroy one or two ships when it appears for dramatic effect. Cuup wrote:
I think you are correct. That indeed can become problematic. As of now, my players did all the sewers in one go until the old temple of Arazni with Snapper and decided to sleep there after being allowed by its guardian (I will post about it later). When the explosion will detonate on the surface, I will probably act as if the obols react to the explosion and knock uncounscious the PCs, thus forcing them to take a long rest before starting the 3rd Part. Maybe you can even use Evni's motherly persona to force the PCs to take a rest when they get to the tower, stating that she thinks the PCs are in a really bad shape and need some rest. The trickiest part will probably be to make the explosion without exposing the teleporting players to it directly, so to not kill them. Again. ![]()
![]() Some advices before starting your first game :
Hope this helps :) ![]()
![]() Greylurker wrote: Give your party the Escape Route Feat. Maybe a Cavalier is with them or maybe just give it out as a Special Reward for something ("Thank you for bringing me the McGuffin. Let me give you some special training as a reward" - Free Teamwork feat) That goes a long way to dealing with the threatening reach, and they might remember it for future campaigns. Thanks, I did not know of this feat :) My current party indeed has a Cavalier with the tactician archetype, but I don't know if he knows of this feat. Either way, I may have a good opportunity to give it out as a bonus feat pretty soon. Most of my players don't min-max/optimize, but they like to use a bunch of feats to be able to do a bunch of things even if it's not the most optimized thing to do, but I doubt they would want to take this one if it's not a bonus feat... I will probably try to talk about it with my players. Maybe I should give it as a bonus feat at the start of my future campaigns ? It seems to be a good way of mitigating the "static battles" problem without having to rework the whole attack of opportunity system. But my players will probably not want to sacrifice a feat for this one and prefer taking feats that go well with their characters. so making it a bonus featGreylurker wrote:
Oki doki. I will remove Combat Reflexes from Big Monsters, and check the combat maneuvers :) Quixote wrote: I'm confused. What monsters are you using, and what level are the PC's? From the monsters I remember : - A Cetus (CR 13) against a level 13 4-player group (a paladin, a witch, a hunter + Roc mount, and a paladin/oracle/warpriest) (they were on a boat during the encounter)- An evolved dire crocodile (CR 10) against a level 8 4-player group (a cavalier, a swashbuckler, a word-magic druid and a sorcerer/draconian disciple) (the crocodile was in the sewers, and had a surprise attack before going back underwater for the first round, then remained the rest of the combat on the surface) - A giant flytrap (CR 10) against the same group but now level 9 Quixote wrote: A single combatant is basically always inferior to multiple ones in terms of the quality of the encounter you're building. Yeah, I understand that sometimes you would be better having multiple small ennemies rather than one big monster. But sometimes having one big monster can be nice narratively speaking. I like to make my encounters as diverse as possible. Plus a bunch of encounters in Paizo APs are against one big monster. Quixote wrote:
I'm not sure if I understood this part correctly, since English is not my main language x) I do want to make things engaging. What would you suggest as "something different" ? ![]()
![]() I would advise against any AP which has its own sets of rules, such as Skull and Shakles or Kingmaker. Your players will not be able to learn the main rules with extra rules added. It is not an AP, but if you want PCs to reach level 2 before starting an AP as Gummy Bear suggested, or just want them to discover the rules for a One-Shot, I would advise running Crypt of the Everflame. There are some puzzles that will need PCs to use some key class abilities and key actions, they will encounter some classic monster-types, and it has a good learning curve with its challenges being benine at the start then becoming more and more dangerous until getting to a legit "Pathfinder" level of dangerosity. A nice tutorial. ![]()
![]() Hi everyone My players regularly find giant monsters (i.e. Huge or more) "not fun" when I GM them. But I like using giant monsters : they are inherantly scary, and even though I tend to be nice with my players and try to not give them impossible challenges, a good Kaiju or two from time to time is a good way to establish that "serious sh*t is going down and the situation is not something to take lightly". Plus, the more you gain levels, the more you will have to use giant monsters to have level-appropriate encounters against a single ennemy. Also, giant monsters are cool. So I see this situation as a problem. When I talked to them to know what is their problem, they told me that giant monsters are way too powerfull compared to PCs. Most of the time, if the monster hits with even only one attack, it will at least put one PC unconscious (except for the occasional tank with a tone of HPs who is down after two hits). It's worse when the monster has multiple attacks because they can take out multiple PCs in a single turn, or focus on one PC to be sure to down them. Plus, giant monsters tend to have special abilities that can cancel any character once it triggers (for exemple, the Giant Flytrap's Engulf ability tends to completely remove a character from the fight until the Flytrap is killed, since it has a monstruous grapple modifier). From my players' perspective, these prevent the "giant monster encouters" from being scary : since they one-shot pretty much anyone, you immediatly go from the "okay I'm full health this should be okay until I take a hit" to "okay I'm dead time to wait for the battle to end and for my healer to heal me". Put this way, I can understand their frustration. Also, this can become kind of frustrating for me as well sometimes. When I one-shot a player, it's not really fun. And when I don't one-shot a player, that mainly means that I did not hit them once, and so the fight appears "easy" since the monster never really fought. And the players end up killing the monster in two to three turns, because, despite their big damage output, giant monsters are not that resistant. I don't think the GM is "against" the players, but they have to at least give them a challenge from time to time, so it bothers me when I build up a big encounter/(mid-)boss fight for my monster to finally just be a glorified punching bag. Just getting out of a giant creature's reach is most of the time not possible. When you play a close-combat character... well, you have to get close of your target. And if you are a long-range character, you don't really have many options to get to a safe spot. A Step only covers 5ft, so it's not enough for a Huge monster or more if it's right next to you, and a retreat only cancels the opportunity attacks from the first square. So, I am looking for some advices on how to run and/or modify "giant" monsters to make them more fun, more scary, and less frustrating. Do you have any ideas on what I could do ? How do you run your giant monsters ? Do you change some things ? ![]()
![]() We started book 3 some times ago with my group. This book has some cool ideas, but after talking a bit with my players, they didn't like the execution of the investigation :/ I tried to present them some NPCs from the main ones you have to report to, using the fact that some of the characters came from/to Vigil earlier (the cavalier studied there to become a Knight of Ozem, and the Sorcerer/Draconian disciple met Evni who told her to go to Roslar's Coffer) as a hook.
So... yeah, my group and I are not great fans of this investigation part, and I had to change some parts afterward. But, appart from the investigation, the rest of the book looks promising, and they had fun with what we did :) Anyway, on my summary of those sessions... *Session 1 : Winning their trust* They interacted with most of the NPCs on the first day (the only one they did not was Ceto Malderra, and they spoke to Veena later). They were pretty bummed that Varvatos did not trust them, but pressed on with the help of Ranton and Evni nonetheless, decided to save the city weither it wanted it or not, agreed with Varvatos to meet her at the cathedral when the sun set, and went to the Northguard post. They spotted the hanged guard and had the nice idea to give their Ring of Feather Fall to the druid who polimorphed in a crow, put the ring on the guard's finger, and pecked the noose to cut it. Then they proceeded to climb, and to crush the wights. As they were not particularly stealthy in B3, Usundra and Okagu embushed them behind the door in the corridor next to B3, Okagu acting as a meatshield for Usundra while scarring the sh*t out of the PCs. This was a very neat battle. They found the documents, and came back to the cathedral to meet Varvatos (who was talking with Veena Heliu at the time), and presented the documents to both of them. Then, with Vavatos and Heliu's blessing, they went to Brunna's forge, killed the elemental, spotted Dondun, and saved Rolf. When they went in C4, the druid was polimorphed as a Fire Elemental, so... Rolf panicked, shot, and the swarshbuckler promptly charged him and knocked him unconscious. They took the shields and ran for an escape... which was fun when Brunna told them to take one of the shield she stocked in C4, and the cavalier got them out of their bag of holding while saying "you mean, those shields ?"
*Session 2 : Kilibrandt's downfall* I retconned a bit Brunna at the start of this session, changing her dialog. Basically, I made her explain that she worked for Kilibrandt under duress, playing Kilibrandt as something more of a mastermind. Dondun put a mark on Rolf, and Kilibrandt and him told Brunna to craft a replica of the shield, then to keep silent, or the curse he put on Rolf would kill him. In the end, Dondun activated the curse in order to destroy all proofs, thus summoning the fire elemental. Now that the mark disappeared from Rolf's body, she told the truth to the PCs, and they convinced her to report to the authorities and to seek a mean to check the shield currently displayed to prove it is a fake. They visited the swashbuckler's mom, then went to sleep. First thing in the morning, they went straight to the Erstwhile Dieworks. On the way, they met "Kilibrandt" (a double that was working for her under duress), and after some talk the combat started. The PCs really liked this battle, as it was very strategic due to the buildings. 10/10 would knock out Kilibrandt again. They captured Kilibrandt (unconscious) and the hunters (dogs dead, body double and one hunter unconscious, the other surrendered), and the last hunter explained to them that his adopted sister (the gnome), his brother and him were - you know the pattern now - working under duress for Kilibrandt, who had captured their father, a merchant. The PCs told Jando to get those suspects to the guards, and ran to the dieworks, fearing that the rest of the Wise Crows were destroying proofs there. They almost lost the sorcerer to the specters. Those things hit easily. I don't think they are that dangerous, but our swashbuckler really had a hard time because of them (he was the only one to fail his save against them). The Otyughs almost TPK'd, but that was because of an error of translation from one of my players (we translated "sickened" as "nauseated" ^^' Rendering the cavalier and the sorcerer useless for the entirity of this battle). As usual, the druid got grappled (I swear, this happens every time they meet some creature that can grapple, and I'm not even trying to target him). And then, they met it. The Putrid Ooze. This creature absolutely cancelled the group. Red Dragon Sorcerer specialized in Fire spells ? Nope, Resist Fire 20. Druid who's only means of dealing significant damages are Electricity spells ? Nuh-uh, Resist Electricity 20. Cavalier trying to hit it with a sword ? Lol, your sword takes 2d6 acid damages, and take 6d6+16+2d6 slam damages. Swashbuckler trying to hit it with a crossbow ? DR 10 baby. I think I never saw my players so scared for their lives. And I made them fight Tar Baphon himself last year. The druid burned the heck out of their Rod of Ice with snow storms just to slow it down, and I allowed the cavalier to make the mill wheel spin so that the ooze is even more slowed. The ooze sniped the druid with its splatter, making him go unconscious, and everybody freaked out when they realized it had a ranged attack. They almost ran away through the sewers, but the sorcerer kept bombarding the ooze with Fireballs, and it ended up dying thanks to some crazy rolls. Huh... As they say, "if brute force is not the answer, that is because you did not apply enough brute force"... They were SUPER proud of them after this, and this was super fun :) This ooze is insane. If you don't have a character able to make spell damages other than electricity and fire, you need some crazy luck to kill it. Now they are taking a break and investigating a bit more, and rescuing Doeswen. Next session : the sewers :) ------------------------------- Prepping the sewers and the redoubt : the Crystal Golem Those parts look really fun, and with Serisan summaries as an indication I'm sure we will have a lot of crazy shenanigans. However, I would like to know if some of you had the chance to try out the Crystal Golem encounter, and how it went out. This thing seems as crazy as the putrid ooze, at least for my players. Just the Explode Head can one-shot anybody in my group, and they don't have any mean to resurect somebody. How well did your groups do ? Do you have any advice on how to run this encounter ? ![]()
![]() My players did point at the moon. But every time they did, the villager would freak out for a bit, becoming mentally unstable, and then his memory would be "reset". Did it once and my players did not try that again. They did break out the truth to one of the characters' mom, but were really coscious about it this time. Then they just did what the scenario originally intended them to do. ![]()
![]() I was saying that I did not understand if you were agreeing with my post or Rysky's post (sorry, English isn't my mother language, so maybe I am missing something on your last post ^^") Oh, Ultimate Wilderness, that explains why I did not hear about it. Well, thanks for the link ! This page still states that leshies need druids to be created, though... The Vine leshy is just really weird to me as an adventurer. I see leshies as the nature equivalent of constructs, golems and necrocrafts, since they have to be created by someone else, and that someone else must have a purpose for them in mind. I guess I'm just gonna "leaf 'em" =/ ![]()
![]() Well... Anyone is technically able to create leshies if they have the right knowledge, but it is stated in their descriptions that they most of the time were created by druids. From what I red most of the time druids create leshies, and then older leshies help them create more leshies, but the druid is still the main actor of the creation process. Also, regardless of how easy or hard it was to have a leshy familiar for a druid, leshies are druid familiars in PF2. I sense awkward situations happening x) (I never heard of a leshy race in 1e. Are you maybe talking about Ghorans ? If the leshy race does exist in official Paizo 1e material, I'm curious to see it) (PS : not sure of who you are agreeing with here Corvus, your post is a bit confusing to me @_@) ![]()
![]() But... aren't Leshy's druids' familiars ? Like, creatures druids litteraly garden to create ? So you can have a Leaf Druid Leshy with a Leshy familiar ? ........ Am I the only one seeing the problem here ? The more I see of the Age of Lost Omens, the more I want to keep working on my homebrew setting. Now I'm waiting on the playable Necrocraft, Eidolon and wolf... I do love leshys and I was happy to see them being full-fledged familiars for druids. But they are familiars. Who need a druid to be created. ![]()
![]() Why didn't the simulacrum attack Amaretos ? From what I read, it seems that Amaretos is in K10 for some time (long enough to make K10 a study). I know that most of Tar-Baphon's servants are now controlled by the graveknights, but what about Otto for exemple ? He doesn't seem controlled. Why did he not attempt to warn the simulacrum, and thus Tar-Baphon, about the intruders ? Or is there something bounding the simulacrum in this room ? Did I miss something ? ![]()
![]() (my party for context :
Also I replaced aligned DR with metallic DR) Our last session went pretty well, and my players kept on doing things I did not expect :) As their final destination, the party went to Salighara's Scriptorium. Being ace detectives, they immediatly found weird that the wyrmwood's corpse was bleeding (even though they did not know its specie). They talked to Berthold and Qil gave him a bit of his blood, but they refused to give him the devil contract (in case it would be dangerous). Frellyh and Wallinar were a really easy fight. They then befriended the other wyrmwoods (and made a bunch of hand-related jokes). Qil triggered the gnashing press, but it was alright, it did a correct amount of damages. The party tested the teleporting room a bunch of times. They ended up with Roy being teleported and locked in one of the small bedrooms with rats and blood everywhere (until Qil finally found him, after a bunch of failed Perception check), and Levy burned the storage room. They did not trigger the fanged peach. They triggered the Broken sculpture trap, but everyone but Qil dodged it. Damages were correct. They instantly attacked Colulus's "corpse". They "killed" it after some rounds, but without silver. Colulus was definitelly killed by Phileas when he tried to sneak attack the spellcasters. The guardian scroll nearly killed Levy. This thing has some crazy amount of bonus for maneuvres ! It can be dangerous, but most clever groups will probably manage this fight. When they met Mrs. Pedipalp, they immediatly attacked her when she told them her name (they guessed that she was the one behind everything in the scriptorium). Roy was instantly removed from the battle because of Pedipalp's fear effect. Luckily the other three managed the battle pretty well thanks to good tactics and saving throws. In the end I think the most dangerous battles in this part are the guardian scroll, and the nightgaunt if your party is unlucky or has low defense against maneuvres. I made Thoot offer the party a Lady's mercy for each member :) They mainly rolled over Deathbower. The gardeners are very easy battles. The tree almost killed Qil, and having two hexes on everyone for the entirity of the battle made it challenging, but once the tree was down, the witchcrows become easy preys (they really depend on another creature to deal damage). They manage to turn Aydie's strategy against her, cornering her in her own Silence zone. They then met Mictena, and oh boy that was a fun fight. They failed the first Diplomacy test (it was impossible for them to succeed it, even with their good diplomacy scores). It took them multiple turns to spot that the one they were fighting was an illusion, and the remainder of the fight was on the gazebo's roof. Mictena used her kiss on Roy once, but was then minced away by a serie of critical hits from Phileas (~40 damages per turn :,D). This battle has a very good potential for an epic fight. When they met Barzakh, he gave them a special coin because they were kind to their ennemis. I talk about it in this thread if you want more details. Final thoughts about this book : It has good ideas, even though the "horror" ambiance is somewhat laking except in Salighara's scriptorium. My players suggested to me to "foreshadow" a bit the monsters like with Collulus so that they know something is lurking, ready to attack them, instead of just doing battles one after the other.
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![]() Hello To the hero who made the maps of book 4 of Tyrant's Grasp : Thank you Finally maps where the secret passages are drawn in way that the "S" symbol is on a different layer than the actual map, and that there is enough space between the room and the secret room that I don't have to spend 15 minutes on Photoshop to edit the map enough to make the secret passage invisible. I know I tend to be pretty harsh with Paizo, so I really wanted to let you know that this made my day. I hope future official maps will stick to this. ![]()
![]() You can change the words, sure, it doesn't really change the core mechanic :) Take the words you are the most confortable with ! Just, for the "heretic" term : the "you are wrong" aspect of the "Heretic" term could well work (since as a cleric you will think something that is against your beliefs to be wrong). As I see this, a Pharasmin cleric that casts a spell that deals damage to Heretic targets deals damages to a cleric of Urgatoah (because they have ideas directly clashing) but not to a cleric of Gozreh (they don't have a subject in common). But you could say such effects also englobes "infidels" in the category opposing divine/devout. I would let the GM determine who are "your religion's allies" and who are "your religion's ennemies" :) ![]()
![]() (Heh, your post made me laugh a little x)) I do agree with you that the Rejection Vulnerability made me shake my head. Like come on : succubi are temptresses. If you are trying to tempt someone as strong-willed as a PC, it won't be done immediatly, you have to try again and again until they lower their guard. ![]()
![]() Calm down guys, you are derailing the conversation x) Vidmaster7 wrote:
Yup. Had to make an elf to make a wizard/ranger with a bow. shroudb wrote: If the classes gave their weapon prof then fighter dedication would be truly pointless since basically that's all it do. Well, Fighter could give something else too. For exemple, the fighter is the only one making you more than trained right now. That would be a good enough edge if your aim is to become a master of weapons - what the fighter is. One could easily argue that Ranger dedication is useless/pretty weak too since it only gives you Hunt Prey, which is useless unless you can wield a ranged weapon (which the dedication feat does not give you) or use some of your feats in Hunt Prey's feat tree. I agree with tivadar that it seems pretty hard now to make a 50/50 characters... Has someone tried to make a theurge ? Edit : The one good thing about those new multiclass options is that now you don't fall behind on spellcasting if you start as a spellcaster. Edit edit : funny how the Ranger multiclass iconic using a bow is an alchemist/ranger, but alchemists don't get bows... ![]()
![]() I think your signature spell is not an adition. All the rules about how you gain new known spells are in the Spell Repertoire feature. It wouldn't make sense to write this feature if the rules about how to gain spells were scattered between multiple features IMHO. The only exception to this would be Bloodline paragon, which adds 2 10th level spells to your repertoire, but if you check table 3-17, there is a column for 10th level with a note saying that you can get this 10th level spell slot once you get Bloodline paragon. So it seems like if the Signature Spell feature would add a new spell (like Bloodline paragon), it would be visible on table 3-17. From what I understand, unless you take a feat that especially says that you add a new known spell (such as Cantrip Expansion, Arcane Evolution or Divine Evolution) or a familiar with Spell battery, or if something outside of your class features allows you to add/gain a spell known, your number of spells per day and of known spells should be the same numbers as in table 3-17. (with the exception of Bloodline Paragon which is called out in said table) So, if I take the Angelic bloodline as an exemple (not taking into account cantrips) :
Edit : Before someone points it out, I wanted to add that the specialist wizard would be a counterargument to the "if there was something giving you additionnal spells it would be in the table". But since the sentence "plus one extra cantrip and spell of your chosen school of each level you can cast if you are a specialist wizard" is in the Arcane Spellcasting feature, it is covered by the argument "all the rules for a feature are in said feature". Edit edit : Whoever is right, the Signature spell feature needs an errata, either to replace "choose" by "add" or "choose" by "choose a spell in your spell repertoire". ![]()
![]() Hi everyone ! :) One of my players suggested me a workaround I will probably use to remove alignment from my games: Divine and Heretic. So I will expose it here in case it could be of help for another GM :) "Divine" is related to your patron god's / concept's values. For exemple, showing mercy to your ennemy will be Divine for a follower of Sarenrae, and a spell raising an undead will be Divine for a follower of Urgatoah. Divine targets are targets that follow your values, such as an angel for Iomedae. Divine damages deal damages to targets that are Heretic to you, such as fiends for Iomedae. "Heretic" is related to your patron god's / concept's anathemas and ennemies. Showing mercy to your ennemy will be Heretic for a follower of Asmodeus, and a spell raising an undead is Heretic for a follower of Pharasma. Heretic damages deal damages to targets that are Divine to you, such as psychopomps for Pharasma. (Heretic damages would be quiet rare, since attacking a Divine target would be an Heretic act unless special circumstances). Replace all occurences of alignment by either "Divine" or "Heretic", depending on the context. For exemple, the Champion's Divine Smite, Holy Cascade and Hellfire Plume will now deal Divine damages (so a Champion of Pharasma will deal damages to undeads but not to psychopomps, and an undead casting Hellfire Plume will deal Divine damages to said Champion of Pharasma while a psychopomp casting the same Hellfire Plume on this Champion will deal no damages). It is somewhat of a redux Loyalty system mixed with the Anathema system that only impacts divine characters and outsiders (since they seem to be the only characters with alignment-based mechanics). You will have to make judgment calls on what is considered Divine and Heretic on a per-character basis, but IMHO this can be improvised quickly when the situation presents itself and at character creation if you have a solid comprehension of your setting's gods'/concepts' values. Hope this helps :) Note: Please do not debate here about if removing alignment from the game is a good idea / a bad idea / necessary / not necessary as it is not the point of this thread. If you like alignment and want to keep it in your game, or if you don't like it and want to remove it, that's neither good nor bad, that's your decision and nobody should judge you on this. But you can debate about the Divine and Heretic rules or other ways to replace alignment here if you'd like.
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![]() James Jacobs wrote: That said, one thing that I really enjoy about RPGs is when the players play different types of characters, personality wise. Every time I've run a game without alignments, everyone ends up playing what's essentially chaotic neutral, and that's repetitive and dull. And here I am with my alignment-less campaign where I have the equivalent of a Loyal Good with Chaotic Weird moments Iomedian, another Loyal Good Sarenite, a Chaotic Neutral and a Neutral Good/True Neutral. I think you stumbled into the classic problem of "my players act like chaotic neutral because they started playing back when playing a gold-hungry chaotic mercenary/adventurer was seen as the norm or learned how to play with people with this mentality" too many times and it painted a dark image of alignment-less games for you. (or maybe not, my intent is not to judge you or your players, but that's something I noticed about other groups after reading a bunch of RPG debates/horror stories) Since Golarion has so many gods/half-gods/fake gods, and since people in Golarion have solid proof about the existence of gods, religion would be a good driving force for most characters who will still follow their god's precepts. I sadly can't argue with the "it is harcoded into the multiverse" argument since the rules are mainly based off Golarion, even though I prefer a home setting.
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