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The sleepy town of Karpad in shadow-haunted Nidal has long been overseen by the Boroi family, and until a few weeks ago, the citizens under Baron Stepan Boroi's rule have lived uneventful lives of relative peace. Recently, however, the outbreak of a virulent and fatal disease and a number of mysterious disappearances have left the people of Karpad paranoid and fearful. Even Baron Stepan has been acting strangely, and now the tenuous balance of racial tensions between Karpad's human and fetchling populations stands on the verge of collapsing into total anarchy. Can the PCs uncover the root of Karpad's problems and put an end to the deadly virus, the terrifying disappearances, and the miasma of fear and distrust that threatens to overwhelm the region?
I'm opening recruitment for the module The Midnight Mirror by Sam Zeitlin. This is a 4th level adventure which should take around 7 months to complete. This will be the third game I’m GMing on these boards, and if I continue to enjoy the experience I will likely run another module afterwards.
We play this game with words, and I try to select mine with care. I don’t expect phenomenal prose, but I hope that you will put some effort into making your posts fun and easy to read. I will do my best to create an atmospheric and immersive game with elements of horror and investigation. Please plan to post daily, an average of 6 times per week or more. I also like using discord and will have an (optional) server for the game
GMing is already hard enough, and I will not make it harder for myself by doing unnecessary work for you. It’s up to you to manage a loot inventory if you want loot. You have the power to scroll back through the game and find that old post which gives you a key clue. You control your own destiny, you shiny sparkling thing
Shoving is encouraged. Specifically, I’m using shoving to refer to posting actions rather than talking about doing something. Here is a good example. There seems to be a tendency to post “Should we see what’s behind the door?” Rather than “Gork opens the door.” As a GM, I am looking for definitive actions so I can respond appropriately
I would like to murder you
17 Point Buy - Don’t spend it all on one stat
Level 4
Partial Gestalt: Level 1 and level 4 are gestalt levels. You are a gestalt character for those 2 levels. Level 2 and 3 are normal levels, meaning you only advance 1 set of class features. You can multiclass however you want. For example, you could be a Fighter/Wizard gestalt at level 1, a Rogue at level 2 and 3, and a Fighter/Warpriest at level 4. Be clear about what you’re doing
Allowed Classes: All Core, All Unchained, All Hybrid, Alchemist, Inquisitor, Magus, Oracle, Shifter, Witch
Races: I suggest you choose Core but if the concept works a lot better with something else then go for it. Gnomes are prohibited within 200ft of my game, and I’m not about to flaunt the law just for you
6k GP
2 traits - you can take a drawback but you won’t get a 3rd trait <3
Please put your crunch in a standard format. Here is an example under the character sheet spoiler
Firearm rework - I tried out my own firearm rules last game and liked them. I’ve made a few more tweaks, however, so these are not exactly the same as last time
Drawing a two handed weapon is a standard rather than move action, reduced to move with quickdraw
Background skills are in effect
Fractional Bonuses are in effect (add up fractional BaB/Saves then round)
Elephant in the room feat taxes are in effect
In addition to a Character Sheet and a Background, I encourage you to respond to the below prompt in character, perhaps narrating your thoughts or interacting with other applicants who may be in the recruitment thread. I’m planning to pick four players based mostly on 1) player vibes and 2) character concept. Planning to keep things open for 10-14 days unless demand says otherwise.
The Lady Tiborose seeks adventurers of even temper and clever disposition, who must conduct themselves with a display of good breeding and perfect equanimity, to perform an errand of a simple but important nature...
The page of fresh vellum, skinned with care and stretched to a fine translucent sheet, goes on to detail how interested parties might inquire inside. It has been fastened to the front gate of the Nidalese embassy in Magnimar by a spiked chain. Inside the embassy, a front room has been cleared of any torture instruments, or whatever else is normally there, and set sparingly with a table and a few chairs. A well dressed woman with scars running like tears down the sides of her face welcomes you, quickly assuring you that she’s not the ‘High Lady Tibrose,’ who will only see you if you complete an application to satisfaction. She offers one to you with a faint sneer.
I, the undersigned, do with clear head and unconstrained body submit myself to your remanding gaze. For my own edification, I will meekly defer to your better judgement while under your employ, save in any matter which requires small matters of professional consideration beneath your notice. With one fingerprick of pain, I will make my mark below, and thus vouchsafe that this document contains no lies.
1. What do you fear most? When did you fail to overcome fear?
2. Have you any experience whatever in working with highborn and noble individuals of exquisite refinement and discerning taste?
3. Will you be able to supply even a single reputable reference who might recommend you to me, and thereby obviate the need for rude introduction?
4. What past adventures have you completed? Only list those worth the time it takes me to read them.
5. Have you ever located a missing person? Was she alive?
6. Are there any in Magnimar or the surrounding acreage who will miss you if you suffer an untimely demise?
With unflinching hand, I sign my name
_____________________________
And make my mark
_______
1. I fear most the word “saught”.
Also: being murdered.
Hell yes!
Valdear here from your Feast of Ravenmoor campaign. I really enjoyed that one, and would love to be in another of your games. I'll get a character made up.
What I am thinking....
Race: Human
Partial Gestalt:
Lvl 1: Zealot Vigilante
Dedicated to a single deity, the zealot hunts the enemies of his faith in secret, often because his religion is outlawed or persecuted in the region
Lvl 4: Enlightened Paladin...or Virtuous Bravo... of Desna
The vigilante is perfect for having a disguise where the paladin lives a secret life in Nidal. This is someone who has a life within Karpad, which nobody questions. While also having a secret role as part of the the Whispered Song.
Hello, hello, this one sounds interesting :)
I am considering an Half-Orc Dex based Investigator or Magus, Gestalt 1 Swashbuckler Inspired Blade, Gestalt 2... Brawler maybe :D
WIP for profile. Character concept is leaning heavily into someone who has a reason to fight, care about the village, and who can adventure without their home life collapsing.
Galessa is a shepherd born and raised in Karpad. Her husband is a Fetchling shepherd, also native to the village. Together, with their teenage son, they are quietly part of the Whispered Song, Desna's clandestine network operating within Nidal.
Their shepherding gives them an innocuous reason to travel outside Karpad. They carry messages and occasionally assist in moving goods through the countryside, while keeping an eye on roads, travelers, and events that might be of interest to the network.
Neither of them thinks of themselves as great heroes. They are simply two people doing what they can to protect their home and their faith.
When the outbreak of disease struck their home, her husband left to reach out to their Desnan contacts for assistance. He...never returned. She has no idea if he is alive or dead, and she does not have any way to contact him. All she can do is pray that he is alive and that help will come. In the meantime, this is her home and she is determined to do whatever she can to protect it.
Of her family, there is Galessa and her husband, both who are in their mid thirties. They have a son who is sixteen going on seventeen, and a thirteen year old daughter. Between the four of them, they have always been able to manage their flock without too much difficulty. Their children have grown up helping with the sheep, giving their parents the freedom to balance their responsibilities as members of the Desnan network with their roles within the village. It is simply the way their family has always lived.
1. What do you fear most? When did you fail to overcome fear?
* She fears that her husband is dead, or worse, was captured by the authorities. And that she will either never know. Even worse, she fears that being discovered will put their children in danger.
* She has not overcome that fear. She has simply learned that dwelling on what she cannot know will accomplish nothing. For now, she focuses on what she can do.
2. Have you any experience whatever in working with highborn and noble individuals of exquisite refinement and discerning taste?
* No. She is a shepherd through and through. However, as a local, she has interacted with with Baron Stepan Boroi's household, local merchants, ranchers, travelers, and people passing through Karpad.
3. Will you be able to supply even a single reputable reference who might recommend you to me, and thereby obviate the need for rude introduction?
* Yes. She is well known in Karpad as trustworthy, reliable, and self-sufficient. The Baron’s household, local merchants, ranchers, and other residents of the village can attest to her character. She has also earned a reputation for protecting her flock and herself from dangers in the wilderness.
4. What past adventures have you completed? Only list those worth the time it takes me to read them.
* Several seasons ago, cattle rustlers stole much of her flock. She, her husband, and their teenage son tracked the thieves and recovered what they could.
* On another occasion, a pack of wolves repeatedly harried her flock. She eventually confronted them alone and killed the pack's alpha with her knife.
5. Have you ever located a missing person? Was she alive?
* A few years back, the tanner's daughter went missing. The entire village went out to search for her. Galessa and her husband brought the girl back. She was traumatized by the experience, and refuses to say what had happened. The two said that they deferred to her wishes on not saying what occurred. It led to near endless speculation in town.
6. Are there any in Magnimar or the surrounding acreage who will miss you if you suffer an untimely demise?
* Magnimar? No. In Karpad? Yes. She is a well respected member of her community. However, should she fall protecting her village, she will be remembered fondly by those who lost her.
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Hell yes!
Valdear here from your Feast of Ravenmoor campaign. I really enjoyed that one, and would love to be in another of your games. I'll get a character made up.
Good to see you Valdear! You’re welcome to re-use Valdear for this adventure. After all, he did just return to Magnimar
———————————-
Since it seems like there’s interest in characters from Nidal, I will consider the possibility of an alternate hook that doesn’t take place in Magnimar. The module assumes the PCs are initially hired by Lady Tibrose, who lives somewhere far from the small town of Karpad. It’s possible that all the PCs would need to meet up in Magnimar together after being hired at the same time, or for some of them to be Lady Tibroses agents/retainers already in Nidal ready to meet the other PCs who come from Magnimar. I’ll have to think about this more
I’d be more than happy to play as Valdear. I had a blast playing him in the last campaign. Or to have Galessa as written above. Whichever you feel works best for this campaign. (I enjoy making characters so time was well spent making her regardless)
From your last post though, it seems that Valdear might fit in this better?
I'll be applying fully later. I'm just making this easier to get to.
I got a basic crunch - Magus gestalt Swashbuckler + Brawler :D
Theraxx
Male half-orc brawler 1/magus (hexcrafter) 4/swashbuckler (inspired blade) 1/gestalt 2 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 23, 56, 125, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 9, 48)
CG Medium humanoid (human, orc)
Init +4; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +9
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Defense
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AC 20, touch 14, flat-footed 16 (+5 armor, +4 Dex, +1 natural)
hp 34 (2d10+8)
Fort +9, Ref +10, Will +9
Defensive Abilities sacred tattoo[APG]
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee mwk cold iron rapier +8 (1d6+7/18-20) or
. . unarmed strike +6 (1d6+4)
Special Attacks arcane pool (+1, 4 points), deeds (derring-do, dodging panache, opportune parry and riposte), hex arcana (familiar[UM]), martial flexibility 4/day, panache (3), spell combat, spellstrike
Magus Spell-Like Abilities (CL 4th; concentration +6)
. . At will—feather fall (self only)
. . 1/day—levitate (self only)
Magus (Hexcrafter) Spells Prepared (CL 4th; concentration +6)
. . 2nd—invisibility, mirror image
. . 1st—keep watch, monkey fish[ACG], shield, vanish[APG] (DC 13)
. . 0 (at will)—brand[APG] (DC 12), detect magic, disrupt undead, ray of frost
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Statistics
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Str 12, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +3; CMB +6 (+8 grapple); CMD 18 (20 vs. grapple)
Feats Agile Maneuvers, Alertness, Arcane Strike, Combat Expertise, Deadly Aim, Endurance, Fencing Grace[UI], Power Attack, Unarmed Combatant, Weapon Focus
Traits fate's favored, pragmatic activator
Skills Acrobatics +10, Bluff +3, Craft (weapons) +9, Escape Artist +7, Handle Animal +4, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +6, Linguistics +6, Perception +9, Sense Motive +2, Spellcraft +6, Swim +4, Use Magic Device +9
Languages Abyssal, Aklo, Common, Draconic, Infernal, Orc, Shadowtongue, Sylvan
SQ brawler's cunning, finesse weapon attack attribute, hex (flight[APG]), hex arcana, hex magus, inspired panache, martial training, orc blood
Combat Gear wand of shield (50 charges); Other Gear +1 chain shirt, mwk cold iron rapier, amulet of natural armor +1, cloak of resistance +1, magus starting spellbook, masterwork weaponsmithing tools
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Special Abilities
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Agile Maneuvers Use DEX instead of STR for CMB
Arcane Pool +1 (4/day) (Su) Infuse own power into a held weapon, granting enhancement bonus or selected item powers.
Arcane Strike As a swift action, add +1 damage, +1 per 5 caster levels and your weapons are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Brawler's Cunning (Ex) Count as Int 13 for the purpose of combat feat pre-requisites.
Combat Expertise +/-1 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Deadly Aim -1/+2 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Deeds
Deliver Touch Spells Through Familiar (Su) Your familiar can deliver touch spells for you.
Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
Endurance +4 to a variety of fort saves, skill and ability checks. Sleep in L/M armor with no fatigue.
Familiar Bonus: +2 bonus on Will saves You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Fencing Grace Use Dexterity on rapier damage rolls
Finesse Weapon Attack Attribute Finesse weapons use Dexterity on attack rolls.
Hex Arcana You can substitute Hexes for Magus Arcana.
Hex Magus (Su) You gain access to witch hexes.
Inspired Panache (Ex) Gain no panache from killing blow, only from rapier crits.
Martial Flexibility (move action, 4/day) (Ex) As a Move action, gain a combat feat for 1 min. More gained for greater actions.
Martial Training (Ex) Brawler levels count as fighter/monk levels for feat/item pre-reqs and effects.
Orc Blood Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.
Panache (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on light/piercing crit/killing blow.
Power Attack -1/+2 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Sacred Tattoo +1 to all saves.
Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.
Spell Combat (Ex) Use a weapon with one hand at -2 and cast a spell with the other.
Spellstrike (Su) Deliver touch spells as part of a melee attack.
Unarmed Combatant Always considered armed, no attack of opportunity on grapple attempts.
Weapon Focus (Light Blades) Choose one weapon group. You become better at using that type of weapon.
Prerequisites: base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using weapons from the selected group. The bonus only applies
And Spike!!
Spike CR –
Hedgehog (protector) (Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic)
CG Diminutive magical beast (animal)
Init +3; Senses low-light vision; Perception +8
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Defense
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AC 20, touch 17, flat-footed 17 (+3 Dex, +3 natural, +4 size)
hp 17 (1d8-2)
Fort +2, Ref +6, Will +5
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft.
Space 1 ft.; Reach 0 ft.
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Statistics
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Str 1, Dex 16, Con 6, Int 7, Wis 12, Cha 7
Base Atk +3; CMB +2; CMD 7 (11 vs. trip)
Feats Agile Maneuvers, Athletic, Bodyguard[APG], Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Deadly Aim, Power Attack
Skills Acrobatics +10 (+6 to jump), Bluff -1, Climb +5, Escape Artist +4, Handle Animal +0, Linguistics +2, Perception +8, Spellcraft -1, Stealth +19, Swim +5, Use Magic Device +2
SQ empathic link, finesse weapon attack attribute, loyal bodyguard, spiny defense
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Special Abilities
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Agile Maneuvers Use DEX instead of STR for CMB
Bodyguard Use an AoO to use aid another to improve an ally's AC.
Combat Expertise +/-1 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Deadly Aim -1/+2 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Empathic Link (Su) You have an empathic link with your master.
Finesse Weapon Attack Attribute Finesse weapons use on attack rolls.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Loyal Bodyguard (Ex) Can use Bodyguard to protect master, even if not threatening attacker.
Power Attack -1/+2 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Share Spells Spells with a target of "You" can be delivered by a familiar with a range of touch.
Spiny Defense As a move action, a hedgehog can roll itself up into a spiny ball. While rolled up, it gains a +1 enhancement bonus to its existing natural armor, and any creature attempting to grapple the hedgehog takes 1d3 damage on making a grapple check. While r
More to come.
A duo of a halfling and a strange-looking, very tan elf walk into the embassy. The halfling looks irritated and is silent. The elf has a hint of a smile. Both have the dress and overall appearance of adventurers.
The elf gestures slightly, moving a little toward the halfling. "C'mon Dal-" he begins to say, his voice soothing and warm.
"No!" the pouting halfling interrupts as they continue walking in. "I don't want to hear it! You almost told her! Then what?! Hmm?! What would you have done if she just hauled me off!?"
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With the smirk still on his face he puffs out his chest and says dramatically, "I would have protected you, obviously."
A duo of a halfling and a strange-looking, very tan elf walk into the embassy. The halfling looks irritated and is silent. The elf has a hint of a smile. Both have the dress and overall appearance of adventurers.
The elf gestures slightly, moving a little toward the halfling. "C'mon Dal-" he begins to say, his voice soothing and warm.
The urge to use Valdear skyrocketed. Truly glad to see this duo. :)
"Or! Or, Nzuri, you don't even get into the situation to begin with! You could just keep your mouth shut, ya'know!" he says clearly exasperated. "You don't have to open your stupid mouth every second!"
Nzuri's smirk grows into a full on grin, "Dal," he says softly at the fuming halfling. "We are here...and your making a scene.."
Dal bites back what he was about to say and simply angrily shakes his fist at the elf. He then takes a couple deep breaths and composes himself before walking up to the desk.
"My apologies," he says in a surprisingly measured tone given his emotions several seconds ago. "We heard word that there is a possible job to be had here?" He gestures at the beaming elf, "My...partner..and I are...magically bound. If there is an application, would you like us to fill out one or two?"
Since it seems like there’s interest in characters from Nidal, I will consider the possibility of an alternate hook that doesn’t take place in Magnimar. The module assumes the PCs are initially hired by Lady Tibrose, who lives somewhere far from the small town of Karpad. It’s possible that all the PCs would need to meet up in Magnimar together after being hired at the same time, or for some of them to be Lady Tibroses agents/retainers already in Nidal ready to meet the other PCs who come from Magnimar. I’ll have to think about this more
I’m going to go ahead and say that it’s alright if some PCs are from Nidal. They have in some capacity worked for the Tbroses before. When she hires the PCs in Magnimar, she will also write a letter for them. They will meet the PCs in Nidal and give them the letter from Lady Tibrose, at which point the party will be joined. For the sake of expediency, all PCs in Nidal will need to be joined up so that there aren’t multiple scenes of PCs meeting
The Tibroses are an influential noble family based in Nisroch, and heavily involved in foreign shipping and trade. Lady Tibrose herself spends at least half the year abroad, seeing to her interests and securing deals with foreigners.
Anya Tibrose, the Lady Tibrose’s eldest daughter, married into the Boroi family last year. Handsome and with extensive holdings throughout the rural lands north of the Uskwood, a marriage to Stephan Boroi was easy to bless. The small village of Karpad is a far cry from the busy ports of Nisroch or the shadowy aristocracy in Pangolais, with only a couple hundred residents and a single twisting road leading elsewhere. Still, Anya and her lady have maintained a regular correspondence and the marriage has thus far appeared successful.
For the sake of fairness, I’d like all applicants answer the same six question application in character (although question 6 need not reference Magnimar). For those not in Magnimar, we will assume that you had to submit such an application to one of Lady Tibroses servants, just as the applicants in Magnimar are doing
Out of time for now. I will respond to completed applications when I get my next opportunity
Posting my submission here for appreciation! Background, sheet, application to Lady Tibrose, and more details can be found on the profile. Kadji knows Nidal well, but she's currently in Magnimar. Thanks!
1. What do you fear most? When did you fail to overcome fear?
I fear losing myself to magical possession. When I was young, dreams of becoming enslaved in Cheliax haunted my dreams.
2. Have you any experience whatever in working with highborn and noble individuals of exquisite refinement and discerning taste?
I have much experience in refined courts.
3. Will you be able to supply even a single reputable reference who might recommend you to me, and thereby obviate the need for rude introduction?
Jeminda Anikee
4. What past adventures have you completed? Only list those worth the time it takes me to read them.
Nzuri and I searched for a lost person and retrieved taxes due to Magnimar.
5. Have you ever located a missing person? Was she alive?
We have located several lost people. A majority of them were alive.
6. Are there any in Magnimar or the surrounding acreage who will miss you if you suffer an untimely demise?
As my sole companion is Nzuri, who I cannot separate from, no.
With unflinching hand, I sign my name
Dalabrac
And make my mark
D.A.
Please ignore that last part, Nzuri is trying to be funny.
-D
1. What do you fear most? When did you fail to overcome fear?
I fear losing control of myself. I always overcome my fears!
2. Have you any experience whatever in working with highborn and noble individuals of exquisite refinement and discerning taste?
Nobles love me!
3. Will you be able to supply even a single reputable reference who might recommend you to me, and thereby obviate the need for rude introduction?
Yes, Jeminda Anikee, she works for Magnimar's tax department.
4. What past adventures have you completed? Only list those worth the time it takes me to read them.
Oh yeah! So Dal and I just recently went to this town in the middle of nowhere, where this evil cult had taken over for like hundreds of years...[he writes it all]...and then we killed the megastirge dude and it was epic!
5. Have you ever located a missing person? Was she alive?
Oh, yeah, tons of times! Most of them were alive. But that guy Jaminda wanted us to find was definitely not. He was super dead.
-D
6. Are there any in Magnimar or the surrounding acreage who will miss you if you suffer an untimely demise?
I cannot die, so no problem there.
With unflinching hand, I sign my name
Ɲźưṛï
And make my mark
Ɲ
Seriously though, he does
I’m putting together an application with a Gloomblade 4 // Inquisitor 2.
WIP for profile. Character concept is leaning heavily into someone who has a reason to fight, care about the village, and who can adventure without their home life collapsing.
Looks good so far. It's nice to see someone trying to play a more or less normal person in a game where so often you'll see people wanting to play an exiled princess with a tumor familiar. Anyway...
"What do you fear most?..."
"Your husband is missing? What a shame..." Lady Tibroses servant has scars in the shape of tears running down each cheek which crinkle when she smiles. "I do wonder about the circumstances of his disappearance," she says, with the cold callousness of nobility, as though she's less interested in helping and more interested in finding out your secrets. "You know, my Lady has many servants all across Nidal. They have eyes and ears everywhere. Should you acquit yourself well and prove your worth, there is much she might have the power to find out for you." The sparing, stone walled room smells faintly of wax and burned hair. The servant slides your application across the table, smiling.
I got a basic crunch - Magus gestalt Swashbuckler + Brawler :D
Welcome and glad you're here. A multiclass magus always has its appeal. There are a couple things in your crunch, such as Fate's Favored, that seem overall too strong to me. When all the PCs are selected, I'm going to end up reviewing the builds and if yours was noticeably stronger than the other PCs, I'd ask you to change some things (such as Fate's Favored)
"My apologies," he says in a surprisingly measured tone given his emotions several seconds ago. "We heard word that there is a possible job to be had here?" He gestures at the beaming elf, "My...partner..and I are...magically bound. If there is an application, would you like us to fill out one or two?"
When Nzuri beams, it's warm and comforting. When Lady Tibroses servant beams back at him, it's sinister and unsettling. "I assure you, magical bondage is no reason not to work twice as hard!"
She considers your application. You'll never know if she finds Nzuri to be hilarious, because she doesn't show the vulnerable flinch of laughter. "There, where it says you must make your mark," she points to the bottom of the page, where Dal has signed D.A. "You're meant to prick a finger and press your blood into the page. Here," she shows you her own index finger, which is scarred from the many such pages she must have marked over her years in shadow haunted Nidal. "Don't be too gentle." If you have no knife, she will offer you one.
I got a basic crunch - Magus gestalt Swashbuckler + Brawler :DWelcome and glad you're here. A multiclass magus always has its appeal. There are a couple things in your crunch, such as Fate's Favored, that seem overall too strong to me. When all the PCs are selected, I'm going to end up reviewing the builds and if yours was noticeably stronger than the other PCs, I'd ask you to change some things (such as Fate's Favored)
Fair enough. As long as all characters get the same treatment, I have no issues with it.
As an example, you will not find a dump stat on my character (say... A 7 or less?), which is a common min-maxing thing people do, because rules like encumbrance or NPC reactions are many times handwaved by the GM.
Let me know what is your stance on this?
I got a basic crunch - Magus gestalt Swashbuckler + Brawler :DWelcome and glad you're here. A multiclass magus always has its appeal. There are a couple things in your crunch, such as Fate's Favored, that seem overall too strong to me. When all the PCs are selected, I'm going to end up reviewing the builds and if yours was noticeably stronger than the other PCs, I'd ask you to change some things (such as Fate's Favored)Fair enough. As long as all characters get the same treatment, I have no issues with it.
As an example, you will not find a dump stat on my character (say... A 7 or less?), which is a common min-maxing thing people do, because rules like encumbrance or NPC reactions are many times handwaved by the GM.
Let me know what is your stance on this?
From experience with his last game: I played a Magus who never used shocking grasp or the like. The character did just fine (he was optimized in his own way to never fail the check to cast in combat). The combats were challenging enough. I trust GM Woe when he says that he has an idea of what level of optimization works best, and to not unnecessarily nerf a character.
And once more to GM Woe. Please let me know if Valdear or Galessa fits better and I’ll adjust as needed.
I got a basic crunch - Magus gestalt Swashbuckler + Brawler :DWelcome and glad you're here. A multiclass magus always has its appeal. There are a couple things in your crunch, such as Fate's Favored, that seem overall too strong to me. When all the PCs are selected, I'm going to end up reviewing the builds and if yours was noticeably stronger than the other PCs, I'd ask you to change some things (such as Fate's Favored)Fair enough. As long as all characters get the same treatment, I have no issues with it.
As an example, you will not find a dump stat on my character (say... A 7 or less?), which is a common min-maxing thing people do, because rules like encumbrance or NPC reactions are many times handwaved by the GM.
Let me know what is your stance on this?
I'm not going to track encumbrance unless it's egregious. Dump stats are ok, but like all stats they should be reflected in the rest of the character, including background and how they act. Building a powerful character is ok and encouraged, but I find excessive minmaxxing distasteful if it results in a significant difference in power level between characters in the same party. Since the final power level is what matters to me, I'm much more ok with minmaxxing on characters that would otherwise be too weak to keep up with the party, such as Rogues
Out of time for now, hopefully I'll be back later today
I got a basic crunch - Magus gestalt Swashbuckler + Brawler :DWelcome and glad you're here. A multiclass magus always has its appeal. There are a couple things in your crunch, such as Fate's Favored, that seem overall too strong to me. When all the PCs are selected, I'm going to end up reviewing the builds and if yours was noticeably stronger than the other PCs, I'd ask you to change some things (such as Fate's Favored)Fair enough. As long as all characters get the same treatment, I have no issues with it.
As an example, you will not find a dump stat on my character (say... A 7 or less?), which is a common min-maxing thing people do, because rules like encumbrance or NPC reactions are many times handwaved by the GM.
Let me know what is your stance on this?
From experience with his last game: I played a Magus who never used shocking grasp or the like. The character did just fine (he was optimized in his own way to never fail the check to cast in combat). The combats were challenging enough. I trust GM Woe when he says that he has an idea of what level of optimization works best, and to not unnecessarily nerf a character.
And once more to GM Woe. Please let me know if Valdear or Galessa fits better and I’ll adjust as needed.
Thank you for the input.
I am simply curious about what is considered (excessive) optimization or 'too strong', thus garnering a 'nerf', and at the end of the day if I agree with it. So I can decide if I believe I am a good fit for the game or not.
I got a basic crunch - Magus gestalt Swashbuckler + Brawler :DWelcome and glad you're here. A multiclass magus always has its appeal. There are a couple things in your crunch, such as Fate's Favored, that seem overall too strong to me. When all the PCs are selected, I'm going to end up reviewing the builds and if yours was noticeably stronger than the other PCs, I'd ask you to change some things (such as Fate's Favored)Fair enough. As long as all characters get the same treatment, I have no issues with it.
As an example, you will not find a dump stat on my character (say... A 7 or less?), which is a common min-maxing thing people do, because rules like encumbrance or NPC reactions are many times handwaved by the GM.
Let me know what is your stance on this?
I'm not going to track encumbrance unless it's egregious. Dump stats are ok, but like all stats they should be reflected in the rest of the character, including background and how they act. Building a powerful character is ok and encouraged, but I find excessive minmaxxing distasteful if it results in a significant difference in power level between characters in the same party. Since the final power level is what matters to me, I'm much more ok with minmaxxing on characters that would otherwise be too weak to keep up with the party, such as Rogues
Out of time for now, hopefully I'll be back later today
So I guess my question would be: is Fate's Favored — and thus a +1 to all my saves in this particular case — considered excessive minmaxxing and "distasteful", or perhaps "too strong"? Whereas dump stats are okay, when we all know that 99% of the time they're chosen for mechanical reasons rather than character or background reasons (especially when things like encumbrance and NPC reactions aren't generally enforced)?
My character has none of the things Magus players would usually consider minmaxxing: no Shocking Grasp shenanigans, no clearly OP archetype like Kensai, no clearly OP hex like Sleep, no wand of Divine Favor or other far-fetched tricks, and no OP traits. Heck, I even forgot to add an offensive spell, which I intended to be Frostbite.
It's really just an attempt at making a versatile combatant, and I'll actually be dropping CHA to 7 to get WIS 12 — obviously for pure background and RP reasons ;)
So yeah, it feels weird to me that Fate's Favored is being singled out specifically because it might be "too strong".
But again, fair enough — that's GM prerogative. I'm not trying to be adversarial or combative here (though I realize this post may come across that way); I'm genuinely just trying to understand the underlying logic and where the optimization line is for the game.
So I guess my question would be: is Fate's Favored — and thus a +1 to all my saves in this particular case — considered excessive minmaxxing and "distasteful", or perhaps "too strong"? Whereas dump stats are okay, when we all know that 99% of the time they're chosen for mechanical reasons rather than character or background reasons (especially when things like encumbrance and NPC reactions aren't generally enforced)?
My character has none of the things Magus players would usually consider minmaxxing: no Shocking...
I could be wrong here but I think you are unlikely to get a hard line that the GM is drawing. I suspect Fate's Favored was pointed out less in respect to its interaction with your build, and more of a common identifier of op builds, which you identified with the examples you pointed out.
There is a massive gradient in character power in 1e. It can be broken in all kinds of ways. The GM is merely saying that they have in mind to ensure that the characters in the game do not go beyond a certain (undefined) point. As they posted above it is about the end result of the build, not necessarily the particular parts of it.
Agreed with Dalabrac. Plus, Albion, all due respect but it feels like you're way too concerned with the other characters rather than focusing on yours. And you shouldn't - the GM does a good job balancing out the stronger stuff. Just go for the character you want to play and adapt to his feedback without getting so attached into looking at other people's sheets or mechanics.
So I guess my question would be: is Fate's Favored — and thus a +1 to all my saves in this particular case — considered excessive minmaxxing and "distasteful", or perhaps "too strong"? Whereas dump stats are okay, when we all know that 99% of the time they're chosen for mechanical reasons rather than character or background reasons (especially when things like encumbrance and NPC reactions aren't generally enforced)?
My character has none of the things Magus players would usually consider minmaxxing: no Shocking...
I could be wrong here but I think you are unlikely to get a hard line that the GM is drawing. I suspect Fate's Favored was pointed out less in respect to its interaction with your build, and more of a common identifier of op builds, which you identified with the examples you pointed out.
There is a massive gradient in character power in 1e. It can be broken in all kinds of ways. The GM is merely saying that they have in mind to ensure that the characters in the game do not go beyond a certain (undefined) point. As they posted above it is about the end result of the build, not necessarily the particular parts of it.
Dalabrac, understood, and I agree there probably isn't a hard numerical line.
But I don't think "Fate's Favored is a common identifier of OP builds" tells much by itself. A particular option being commonly found on optimized characters doesn't make that particular use of it strong, and that's exactly what I'm trying to understand.
And there are plenty of other very obvious optimization choices one could point to. For example, taking STR 7 to maximize a primary stat and then spending 2,000 gp on a Heavyload Belt to largely negate the practical consequence of that dump is very clearly a mechanical optimization decision. You're deliberately accepting a -2 STR modifier because the benefits of putting those points elsewhere are worth more, and then buying an item that costs 2,000 gp specifically to mitigate the downside.
That's actually a pretty good illustration of what I'm talking about: why spend 4,000 gp on a +2 STR item when you can spend 2,000 gp on a Heavyload Belt and simply work around the low Strength instead? That's optimization. Elegant? Or distasteful?
My question is why this particular minor optimization is being singled out as potentially excessive when there are numerous other deliberate optimization choices in the recruitment, and the stated criterion is supposed to be the power of the finished character.
If Fate's Favored is simply being used as a "this is an optimization-oriented character, so I'll take a closer look at the whole build" flag, then fair enough. That's very different from Fate's Favored itself being considered too strong, though, and that's the distinction I was trying to clarify.
Agreed with Dalabrac. Plus, Albion, all due respect but it feels like you're way too concerned with the other characters rather than focusing on yours. And you shouldn't - the GM does a good job balancing out the stronger stuff. Just go for the character you want to play and adapt to his feedback without getting so attached into looking at other people's sheets or mechanics.
Thank you, Lapyd, but you'll note that is exactly what I did — I focused on the character I want to play.
It was only after my character was specifically called out for using options that may be "too strong" that I started looking at the other characters, because I wasn't seeing similar scrutiny elsewhere and was trying to understand the logic behind it.
You keep saying that GM Woe does a good job of balancing out the stronger stuff, but that shifts the scope of the conversation, as if I am attacking, which is not true. I'm not questioning whether he's a good GM or attacking his ability to balance a party. I'm trying to understand how he runs his game and where he draws the optimization line.
The GM is considering whether I'm an appropriate player for his game. I'm likewise considering whether the game he's running is appropriate for me. That seems entirely fair.
I'm quite happy to adapt my character to his feedback. I just think it's reasonable to ask what that feedback actually means rather than simply being told "the GM knows what he's doing, don't worry about it."
What you say at the end is fair, Albion. However, in the same post you single out another player's mechanics/sheet to complain or argue about yours. Can you just ignore the other characters and try to have your own dialog? Would it help if all submissions were secret? I find it very distasteful, hence why I asked you to stop being so concerned about other characters and focus on your own. The GM will deal with each person separately and adjust whatever they feel the need to do so. Like other games and hosts here in the forum, they may be used to play with the person enough to understand whether they abuse mechanics or not.
Come on, Lapyd. I think we're going in circles here.
I don't consider pointing out another concrete example of mechanical optimization to be an attack on either you or the GM. I brought it up because the entire question is about where the line between "optimization" and "excessive optimization" is supposed to be drawn. If I'm told that Fate's Favored is a potential indicator of excessive optimization, then I think it's entirely reasonable to point out that there are other, arguably much more obvious, examples of deliberate mechanical optimization in the same recruitment.
I'm not saying anyone is doing anything wrong by optimizing. Quite the opposite — I'm saying that 'everyone is optimizing to some degree', and I still don't think Fate's Favored amounts to anything particularly significant in the context of my actual build.
Where I disagree with you is the idea that pointing this out somehow means I'm attacking the GM or "complaining about" another player's character. I'm trying to establish whether we're applying the same standard to everyone, which seems relevant when the stated concern is the overall power level of the characters.
That said, I agree with your last point: this is becoming less productive. I've made my position clear, and I'll leave it there.
I said my peace. At the end of the day, their question about GM discernment was for the GM. And, I do not find it unreasonable to desire more information about the GMs process and discern for one's self the fit with the GM. Communication can be very important.
Sometimes, due to the crunch of the game and this textual medium lacking body language and other social cues, we can lose sight that often enough, it boils down to vibes. Please make sure that you don't take things too personally, because very often it is not intended that way.
And, on that note, I have failed to respond to the GM myself so I will get on that shortly.
When Nzuri beams, it's warm and comforting. When Lady Tibroses servant beams back at him, it's sinister and unsettling. "I assure you, magical bondage is no reason not to work twice as hard!"
...
Dalabrac sets his face in a forced, pleasant smile. "We are quite...enthusiastic to work twice as hard, so long as we are getting paid for two," he starts evenly, but ends with a mischievous grin.
****
Yet again he sets his jaw and pulls out his own dagger and, clearly begrudgingly, does as is requested.
|
The well dressed woman with scars instantly regrets her faint sneer, as she recognizes the holy symbol of Zon-Kuthon on the human's broad chest.
She stands still, terrified, as the cleric gently traces his index knuckle along the scars on her face. "How beautiful", the dark-haired nidalese remarked as he sat down to complete the application.
1. What do you fear most? When did you fail to overcome fear?
The Anger of The Midnight Lord. For Great is his Fury, and Imaginative is his Revenge.
While assisting some agents of the Umbral Court in helping to clear a mausoleum for a fresh burial, a wraith entered by blind spot as I turned the corner, and felt the full effect of his cause fear effect. After several embarrassing moments of running away, I turned back to face the wraith, rather than face the scorn of my superiors.
2. Have you any experience whatever in working with highborn and noble individuals of exquisite refinement and discerning taste?
You write of my peers. As you well know, House Shadowecreche has served at The Prince of Pain's leisure for over twelve generations. If this question is any indication, I am pleased to serve Nidal and The Dark Prince in such a capacity.
3. Will you be able to supply even a single reputable reference who might recommend you to me, and thereby obviate the need for rude introduction?
In Shadowcreche Manor in Pangolais, ask for my father and Head of House, Lord Barlonis.
4. What past adventures have you completed? Only list those worth the time it takes me to read them.
My skill at the healing arts has made me a favorite of Pangolais, altering the wounds of noble and slave alike. It does get me invited to the best of parties and celebrations.
5. Have you ever located a missing person? Was she alive?
One of my few failures. Recently, I asked to assist in an interrogation of a desnan 'freedom fighter' to find the location of some missing slaves. Using a zone of truth spell, I was able to get the information without wasting time on 'traditional interrogation tactics'. We had missed the slave's escape by roughly ten minutes. The desnan suffered as he died.
6. Are there any in Magnimar or the surrounding acreage who will miss you if you suffer an untimely demise?
No. House Shadowcreche might.
With unflinching hand, I sign my name
Ebon Shadowcreche of House Shadowcreche
And make my mark
___X____
With a predatory smile, Ebon asks, "So, Beautious One. Have any social plans or obligations for this evening?"
Nzuri's reaction is along the same lines, but more pronounced. The sinister and sadistic undertones overtones cause a notable change in his demeanor from beaming and cheerful to serious and cautious. He says nothing, but it is clear, in his several looks and glances to Dalabrac that he is having second thoughts.
****
Yet again he gives Dal a cautious look. But, after his halfling companion stabs himself, Nzuri clearly resigns himself to accompany his companion and holds out his hand as well.
And once more to GM Woe. Please let me know if Valdear or Galessa fits better and I’ll adjust as needed.
Personally I think it would be cool to see you play the same character in a second game. But if you have a preference you should go with your heart.
-----------------------
Re builds
I was thinking a bit about why Fate's Favored feels worse than dumping multiple stats. The biggest reason, to me, is that Fate's Favored doesn't do anything other than increase the power level of a character. Dump stats are likely to affect a person's image of a character during character creation/background writing, and I can't say the same for Fate's Favored. The second biggest reason is that Fate's Favored is never not significantly better than other traits, so it's easy to flag it as a broken ability while quickly looking through a build.
I will reiterate, for all players considering applying, that what matters in the end is everyone having fun, and it's more fun if characters are balanced with one another. So if I ask you to change something, it will be for that reason, likely via PM at the end of the recruitment process.
Yet again he gives Dal a cautious look. But, after his halfling companion stabs himself, Nzuri clearly resigns himself to accompany his companion and holds out his hand as well.
The servant looks at Nzuri's hand for a long moment. "Oh no, my dear. You must do it yourself." She seems happy to correct the clueless elf.
I'll get Valdear up to level 4 then. :)
Thank you for offering your insights regarding Fate's Favored.
I can also see you already have another Magus character submitted, so I will drop off from the race.
Wish you all a great game!
An Application to Humbly Serve High Lady Tibrose:
I, the undersigned, do with clear head and unconstrained body submit myself to your remanding gaze. For my own edification, I will meekly defer to your better judgement while under your employ, save in any matter which requires small matters of professional consideration beneath your notice. With one fingerprick of pain, I will make my mark below, and thus vouchsafe that this document contains no lies.
1. What do you fear most? When did you fail to overcome fear?
I fear that my experiments will consume me. I refuse to allow this to occur, and therefore I continue to pursue my work, so that I might master it.
2. Have you any experience whatever in working with highborn and noble individuals of exquisite refinement and discerning taste?
Yes. <what follows is a description of his family upbringing, their connections, and his prestigious education>
3. Will you be able to supply even a single reputable reference who might recommend you to me, and thereby obviate the need for rude introduction?
Jeminda Anikee.
4. What past adventures have you completed? Only list those worth the time it takes me to read them.
What follows is a description, entitled 'The Feast of Ravemoor.' It described uncovering, and destroying, a cult of Ghalunder.
5. Have you ever located a missing person? Was she alive?
Yes. No. <He explains that the missing taxes were recovered, however, and were all accounted for.>
6. Are there any in Magnimar or the surrounding acreage who will miss you if you suffer an untimely demise?
No. <He explains that Magnimar is not his home, but rather a temporary locale in which he is conducting his studies and experiments>
With unflinching hand, I sign my name
_____________________________
And make my mark
_______
The servant looks at Nzuri's hand for a long moment. "Oh no, my dear. You must do it yourself." She seems happy to correct the clueless elf.
Like Dal, Nzuri sets his jaw and receives the dagger from Dal. Without looking at himself do it, he pricks his finger and dabs the parchment. All the while he stares at her as if saying, "I see what you are up to."
6. Are there any in Magnimar or the surrounding acreage who will miss you if you suffer an untimely demise?
To be honest... Few. Puppeteers are remembered only when their shadows dance. If I vanish, perhaps a whisper will remain in the alleys, but no tears will be shed. I would be quite sad, though.
"None will miss you? What a shame, I myself love shadows." The servant taps a finger on her table, considering. "It seems that you are by nature very quiet. You say that even the archivists of Goka find you unsettling." She has an iron gaze when she meets your eye. "Lady Tibrose intends to hire a group, not just you. Tell me, have you really never had companionship?"
"How beautiful....So, Beautious One. Have any social plans or obligations for this evening?"
"I belong to the Lady Tibrose, Lord Shadowcrèche, and must thus meekly defer to her will. As might be well for you to do, under her employ." Lady Tibrose's servant has an even, emotionless voice, the kind a servant uses to address a superior. She might well be reciting a list of facts. She traces a finger to the bottom of the page. It stops just beside Ebon's bloody fingerprint. "You write that you've experienced a few failures," she says, twisting his words unfairly. "Tell me about another one."
Thank you for offering your insights regarding Fate's Favored.
I can also see you already have another Magus character submitted, so I will drop off from the race.
Wish you all a great game!
Maybe next time. Farewell!
I fear that my experiments will consume me. I refuse to allow this to occur, and therefore I continue to pursue my work, so that I might master it.
"Tell me, do you ever conduct experimentation on the road?" Lady Tibrose's servant seems entirely fascinated by Valdear's arm, as though she might peer through his sleeve and find the point where it meets his body if she stares hard enough. "I wonder that you might let them consume you a little more, would you not be so affected by this constraining fear."
I fear that my experiments will consume me. I refuse to allow this to occur, and therefore I continue to pursue my work, so that I might master it."Tell me, do you ever conduct experimentation on the road?" Lady Tibrose's servant seems entirely fascinated by Valdear's arm, as though she might peer through his sleeve and find the point where it meets his body if she stares hard enough. "I wonder that you might let them consume you a little more, would you not be so affected by this constraining fear."
"My dear patron." Valdear says, his voice and face a mask of neutrality. "An opportunity such as this is fertile ground for experimentation. For expeditions such as this are often grounds for field tests. There is only so much that can be done to understand the effects in a laboratory. It is the stresses of the road which bring true understanding." As he speaks, he holds his arm up, so that both might see it. The liquid glass flows as its name suggests, with his fingers merging into one, only to come apart again. Simultaneously both solid and liquid, the flow of the material is evidence enough of the elemental power flowing within. "And how else am I to know whether this is a success that can be replicated, and whether replication is even warranted?" Lowering his arm to look at Lady Tibrose, he says, his face still unchanging "And of course, my studies are costly. Payment rendered will go a long way in furthering my studies as well."