I'm actually becoming increasingly convinced that the hero point system is poorly designed. Spending a highly limited resource to do worse (with absolutely no recompense) is just so infuriating and leaves people feeling so defeated.
I'm actually becoming increasingly convinced that the hero point system is poorly designed. Spending a highly limited resource to do worse (with absolutely no recompense) is just so infuriating and leaves people feeling so defeated.
First, it was a beautiful paragraph, I regret the dice rolls forced a change.
I SHOULD be feeling defeated, but at this point, it's almost comical to me . ICly, Dyrm has to work himself up to have more confidence that stealth WILL Work, that it is the best option... he finally goes with the flow... more confident... his team has got him ready and...
CLANK CLANK CLANK
Dibs on boots of Clank reduction if we find a new pair :)
I'm actually becoming increasingly convinced that the hero point system is poorly designed. Spending a highly limited resource to do worse (with absolutely no recompense) is just so infuriating and leaves people feeling so defeated.First, it was a beautiful paragraph, I regret the dice rolls forced a change.
I SHOULD be feeling defeated, but at this point, it's almost comical to me . ICly, Dyrm has to work himself up to have more confidence that stealth WILL Work, that it is the best option... he finally goes with the flow... more confident... his team has got him ready and...
CLANK CLANK CLANK
Dibs on boots of Clank reduction if we find a new pair :)
First of all, you don't know that a change will be forced. I haven't even read the post that brought these two comments as I'm writing here. I checked Discussion first today.
Second, I don't see Hero Points as an extremely limited resource. Especially with the way I've been giving them out! I'm going to be trying something different in chapter 3, as I'm still trying to find the right pacing for them.
That said, IMO, Hero Points are not supposed to be used every time you think you that you may have failed a roll. They're meant to a) save your life and keep you from bleeding out, or b) help you in a high leverage situation. If you see them differently, that's fine, I am not saying that you are wrong, but it let's you see how I see them, so you can understand my throught process as I play around with rates to give them out.
Third, RAW you have to take the second roll on a Hero Point roll. Rules as me, ignore that. You get the higher roll when you spend one.
Lastly, as a curiosity from me thing, how would you make them work, Halanestra?
Also, I'm glad Dyrm's not feeling defeated :)
I didn't mean to insinuate you were at all stingy with the Hero Points if that's how I came across. I much prefer the option to no option at all.
Given how dangerous getting caught seemed to be stressed, it seemed Dyrm failing the roll put the whole party at risk with a fight we might not win when he's already injured. So I guess it was a 'save your life' mentality, though I probably AM too quick to jump that gun. Maybe I misunderstood the threat level. (And it looks like I did as it is actually several rolls)
I'm VERY grateful for your house rule that best roll is used. Thank you VERY Much for that :)
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To be fair, that was how I thought they worked. When I looked it up this morning, I did a double-take. I probably thought that as it has the Fortune trait, which often gives 5E advantage, though not always. But, in Hero Point case, I think that it makes a lot of sense to give it advantage.
Also, as it has the Fortune trait, there is an unwritten but niche use of Hero Points. If you are under a Misfortune trait effect, you can pop a Hero Point to negate it and roll normally, as the two traits cancel.
Also, Dyrm is not wounded. The overnight rest brought everyone to full. Between 8 to 12 hours of medicine checks and Con Bonus times level overnight rest healing, bringing people back to full when they rest overnight - or over day, or over whatever time in this case - is pretty easy.
GM Lia, I don't think you're being stingy with hero points either--I've made numerous comments about how they're plentiful in this game! PbP pacing in particular means they're plentiful. My point was rather that they're a resource the player cannot regenerate at will and cannot use more than once on a roll.
I've been thinking for a while now how I'd prefer them to work. The least bad thing I've thought of so far is adding dice (much smaller, like 1d6 or 2d6, maybe scaling like with proficiency bonus?) to a roll. This means you'll always get a better result, even if by an insignificant amount. My philosophy here is that if you spend a resource, you should always get something for it. It will still occasionally be disappointing, but I don't think it would make me feel extremely bitter like I did after rolling one lower than the original roll three times in a row. The important thing is to not make them auto-success points while still being useful, and I think this maintains a good balance of being useful while not being overpowered. You're not going to change a failure into a critical success with that kind of approach, but you can definitely turn a near miss into a hit.
Everything else said on the topic is very reasonable, and I particularly appreciate the clemency of applying them like D&D 5e advantage. That kind of "roll twice and take the higher" mechanic even has precedence in first edition Pathfinder, long before D&D 5e popularized it. In particular, I'm quite fond of the witch hexes which do this, one each for ally and enemy rolls. Hex an enemy with it and make them roll a save on, say, baleful polymorph and take the lower of two, suddenly you have a spare familiar ;)
Pardon folks. I'm going to be slow posting as for the last few days I've been a bit sick, and it's gotten onto a full blown fever. I think it's the flu. Ugh.
I hope you get better soon Dyrm!
Adding a proficiency bonus to a hero point roll would be broken pretty quickly in PF2E, as your level is your proficiency bonus. Adding a d6 per point of proficiency bonus to a d20 would be pretty close to auto-crit by level 3 or 4 :).
Hero points are difficult to monitor in PbP. At my table I have an hourglass and give a new hero point every hour, but that is of course not translatable. The "tabletop" game however moves much faster... so the PC's use them, but often run out.
One Podcast I listen to has a rule that if you use a Hero point and roll less than "10" you can just take a 10. Still might not succeed, but you don't often end up with a worse roll.
Sorry to hear, Dyrm, please remember lots of fluids!
I didn't mean a d6 per point of proficiency bonus, I'm sorry, I didn't explain that well. I mean adding a die as your level of proficiency with the task increases--but I can see that being easily broken too. Maybe just 1-2d6 at most?
I definitely like the take 10 approach--I don't think I've wanted to use a hero point on a roll when I've rolled more than 10 (... except blasted Fort saves...), as I try to focus on the things I'm good at and 10 + whatever is usually good enough, or at least not a critical failure.
I'm having a difficult week. My posting will be spotty for a while. Please bot me as needed.
Still here, just of absolutely no use with breaking stone. Halanestra is not about to start poking rocks with her sharp blades, that seems like a great way to ruin them.
Still here, just of absolutely no use with breaking stone. Halanestra is not about to start poking rocks with her sharp blades, that seems like a great way to ruin them.
There are no rules for damage to items for using them to break something open, and that's a level of simulation that I have no desire to just down the rabbit hole on. If that's a worry, it doesn't need to be at all.
Okay. Antibiotics taken and I am no longer as deadbrained. I'll try to catch up. And thank you for the words of concern
Glad to hear you're doing better, please remember to hydrate too, especially if you're suffering through the US heat right now!
I may have spoken too soon. But third time is the charm.
A mechanics question before I post my turn: I'm considering using Figment (per my Otherworldly Magic ancestry feat) to distract Stonemaker and thus make them off-guard to me.
When you Cast or Sustain the Spell, you can attempt to Create a Diversion with the illusion, gaining a +2 circumstance bonus to your Deception check.
Is this Create a Diversion action part of the two actions to cast Figment, or do I need to spend a separate action for it?
You do not need to spend another action as the spell says that you Create a Diversion. It's basically what the spell does, makes a diversion.
However, I would point out that you are much more than 30 feet away from and in cover, so you could also just Hide to gain off-guard, which would give you two remaining actions rather than just one.
I'm so sorry for taking forever to check in. Things have not been great with my mental health these past few months and last month things kind of came to a head. For various reasons, play-by-post has become very stressful (no fault of any of you). In the interest of trying to cut down on stress sources, I am taking an indefinite hiatus from play by post. This means I have to bow out of my games, including this one.
I had a lot of fun while I was here, and I wish you all the best, and happy gaming.
I've been there, Myobatsu P. I hope you find the time and chances you need to take care of yourself.
Sorry to see you go, Batsu. I also echo what Dyrm said.
You have finished Chapter 2.
Chapter 3 of Book 1, A Relic Reunited, will be starting soon.
You are all now level four. Don't forget you get a Free Archetype feat as well as your normal progression.
There will be downtime here. How much? As much as is needed for the party to level and hit any downtime goals they may have.
At the moment, I am not going to replace Batsu, unless someone knows someone that they want to recommend to me. Feel free to PM in that case.
I'll do a between-chapter base-touching, as well as feedback from my perspective for you all in the next day or so, but also feel free to make any comments about anything here, or ask any questions that you may have.
You have all the empathy in the world from me, Batsu, I can't say I know exactly what you're going through but my mental health demons are absolutely the worst thing I've had to deal with in life. It has been a pleasure playing with you and I hope you find some solace and peace soon. Unlikely, but if you (or anyone else!) wants, my inbox is open and I'm happy to listen.
As for the game, I need to figure out where I want to go with Halanestra before I know how much downtime I'll need. Regardless of that, she is going to want a long, hot bath to wash off all the grime and the ickiness and the memories of the Darklands.
More defenses are definitely required, as well as more damage and more HP. I'm leaning toward United Assault for the archetype feat via Basic Hunter's Trick. This makes so much sense for a melee character, especially one that wants to be in melee with allies. I'm really surprised rogues don't get it! It does require I spend some time training with the Knights of Lastwall, something we've discussed previously. I'll start working on the level up tonight.
Best wishes, Batsu. I hope the break gives you enough mental leeway to bounce back. You're welcome back anytime.
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Touching Base, Part 1.
I need to go through and get you all a consolidated loot list unless one of you has one.
Halanestra, I want to note that United Assault does not require the target of your Strike with it to have been damaged by other people in melee or even by your allies. It's damaged by anyone, up to 4, so if they get hit by one of their friends' AoEs that would trigger a +1 for you, for example.
I'm fine with factions having cool feats, it gives a reason to want to join them. There may be an RP or gold cost to learn it, but you can. The Knights are in Highhelm during SKT specifically for that reason!
Hero Points: I am still not happy with how to give out Hero Points in PbP. This does not mean I'm not happy with how you have used them, you've done that well. It's just harder to judge the whens.
So, I'm going to try something else. Chapter 3 has three sections. Prior to starting each one, I'll give you HP for that section. This will let you know how dangerous each section is. But, you can also earn more by heroic actions during that section (and feel free to stump for them if you feel you earned one)!
Feel free to give any feedback on this or anything else, and I'll be doing a combat-oriented feedback later.
Thanks, a "Loot list" would be great. That seems to be one of the harder things to referee in PbP for some reason. I guess everyone is hesitant to take items wondering if they're being greedy, or someone else might need it more.
I have leveled Korox up. He only wishes to find someone to craft him a cold iron weapon in whatever downtime is available. Also, I'm assuming Korox didn't use his infiltrators elixir as he originally planned as the scheme went a different way. Once I determine how much funding is left after purchasing the cold iron dagger/hammer, then I might shop some more. Depending on the amount of downtime required from others he will spend some time earning income.
Remember to check with me about anything Uncommon, or things from APs, before selecting them. While neither Admonishing Ray or Purifying Icicle is problematic (though there may be a cost for the latter), I'd feel bad if you'd updated your sheet and I then had to say no.
As for a cold iron weapon, buy one. Whatever weapon plus 40 gold for the cold iron, once I have the loot sheet done, and you all know how much you have. It would be Low-Grade which just means it can't hold runes above level 8.
Hey just wanted to say I'm on Vacation right now. My posting will be a little erratic because of that. Ten hour car trips do not work well with writing put posts.
Halanestra is mostly finished. I took Poison Weapon for my class feat and, indeed, United Assault via Basic Hunter's Trick. I learned tonight that AoN exposes full ElasticSearch query syntax to users with its complex query type, which helped me narrow the list of feats. This will be pretty exciting if you know what it means, but nonsense if not :) I used my skill increase to bump my acrobatics to expert, so expect some more shenanigans there :D
As for my skill feat, I'd like to request Fane's Escape. It's Uncommon and the access requirement is that I'm a Pathfinder (also that I have a deck of playing cards, but that's easy enough). Halanestra used to be a Pathfinder, so I'd like to make the argument that she could have learned this trick during her time. And it'd make sense, thematically, as well.
A little disappointed that we don't get ability boosts at this level, though; I had just assumed we do at level 4 since that's how it's been forever, but no, that's level 5.
I would like to revisit my choice of my first level class feat, Trap Finder. In light of how much rarer traps are in PF2, I'd like to consider swapping it out to something else. Would this be acceptable? I made the choice thinking there'd be traps everywhere like in earlier editions, but of course that's not the case for PF2.
Yes, you can retrain out of Trap Finder. It is, however, a very useful feat, as it gives a passive search roll for trap hazards even when you are not Searching, something I realize now that I forgot about when you were dealing with the Glyph outside of Thenur's tower. It's not a bad thing to have in your toolkit, especially since it also gives a +1 to Perception to find them, as well as AC and Saves against them.
That all said, if you want to train out, do so. It can only be into another level 1 class fear, but I presume you knew that.
Yes, you can have Fane's Escape.
Touching Base: Part 2: Prep things.
This should be pretty simple. From each of you, as you have the time to do so, I would like two things.
1. A wish list for loot. You can leave Potency and Striking Runes off it, as they are both easy to buy and fairly easy to come across as you start encountering higher-level humanoid foes that could be using weapons with them.
2. A typical round for you in case I have to bot you. IRL happens and I want to be better prepared going forward when it does.
Lastly, if there are any character story-related side quests you'd like to see, let me know. Any/all of that can be done in the discussion thread or via PM, whichever you prefer.
Touching Base: Part 3. Combat.
This AP has had very little combat. Combat style is one of the things that takes the most time to jell in a group, and typically adventures are much more combat-heavy, so that comes sooner.
To put it in perspective, in the game I am in Korox is running, we're just level 2, and in our third fight, one of which was a six-encounter wave fight. So, seven combat encounters. That's already more fights in a level than you guys have had in four levels as you have had six, three of which happened in Thenur's tower.
Now, you have also managed to bypass some fights, and that's not a bad thing. But, you are still learning each other's styles, as well as general strategy, and I wanted to touch on this as once we reach Book 2, and you go into the real Darklands, things will get harder.
In the mushroom cavern, you all did great. Korox's creation of his own ramp bypassed a fight with a nasty ooze. The Stealth failure against the Shrieker actually helped you as it triggered the fight further out and effectively removed the spore cannons from the battle. You also all worked well as a team.
You also did very well at the tower. While I could tell there was a little disappointment that you could not help Thenur - yet, that help is coming up soon, it was a very fun fight, and playing the crazy gnome was fun for me. However, you made your first real mistake here.
While talking to her, you had come up with the Strategy of going for the
Soulgem and yet no one ever did. While it could not actually be removed, you could try Disarm, Grapple, or Steal against the gem, and any success would have done 4d6 Mental damage and Stunned 1 on a success and 8d6 Mental and Stunned 2 on a Crit Success.
Also, when the spectral hazard showed up, even though you had a Cleric and a Thaumaturge in the group, a few of you went to attack the spectral hazard rather than back up the squishy, and yet very aggressive, elven rogue.
It would have been better there for most of the party to focus on Thenur and leave the Hazard to the people who could - and did - deal with it quickly without weapons.
Before I say more, I want to emphasize that I am not saying you played wrong, or bad, or anything like that. I'm intending to show ways that you could work together and use your abilities more effectively as a group. No one did anything wrong.
You could have played the last fight a lot better.
To a large extent, Halanestra and Zivzeb hard-carried the group.
Thanks to Halanestra's double sneak attacks, and Xivxeb's crazy crit quickly taking out the level 5 Caster, and causing the tribe to flee making it a 5 on 1 fight by early in Round 2, you had the advantage and did not use it well as a group. Stone Maker was also level 5, so you can see that this was intended to be a tough fight.
Halanestra and Zothan did very well. Zothan IDed its scary attack, and I gave you a full mechanical breakdown of how its petrification worked so you could plan. Halanestra continued to play very aggressively, which is consistent for her, and something the group needs to work to support a little better.
While the cautious play in Round 2 was reasonable, it should have ended in Round 3. Why?
Because you get to see the dice. Stone Maker attacked the AC 19 rouge, with a +15 attack bonus. He'd hit her on a 4. His crit could have one-shot her.
At that point, you should have - and did not - pull out the big guns. What could you have done better?
Dyrm: Instead of Stride, Shoot, Reload, on Round 2, and triple Stride on 3, doing 5 damage over two rounds, you could have done triple Stride on 2, and then made two attacks, with the greataxe, and flanking, and given Halnestra 2 extra hits with sneak attack. You also would have likely hit at least once, with those two attacks and done much more than 5 damage,
Korox: You could have cast Spiritual Armament on Round 2. Not only would this have done more damage than Needle Darts, but it would have set up flanking for the rogue and would have, over the rest of the fight, given her at least 3d6 more damage. The Heal on round 3 was very clutch, but then you went back to tossing cantrips with better options in your toolkit.
Jaxi: While Ray of Frost is a solid cantrip, you had Laughing Fit. A cast of that, and a /success/ on Stone Makers save, would have totally taken his ability to turn any of you into stone off the table. Removing all reactions on a successful save makes that spell incredibly powerful.
You did win the fight and did not take much damage. But, I also want to use this as a teaching moment. Do not be afraid to be aggressive, and do not be afraid to use spell slots. They are there to be used!
Thank you for the advice. Perhaps I had misread how fast that basilisk moved
I'm behind on upgrading Dyrm, sorry. We had a brief but intense storm come through the other day, knocked the power out for 7 plus hours, and there's come clean up to do. Everyone's fine mind you.
Halanestra is now officially level 4. I've added Fane's Escape but have kept Trap Finder and will try to be more mindful of mentioning it in future.
Speaking of stumping for hero points, I think my standing up to Stone Maker--especially after seeing that +15--warrants one.
While talking to her, you had come up with the Strategy of going for the
Soulgem and yet no one ever did. While it could not actually be removed, you could try Disarm, Grapple, or Steal against the gem, and any success would have done 4d6 Mental damage and Stunned 1 on a success and 8d6 Mental and Stunned 2 on a Crit Success.
I don't think we--or at least I--knew this was an option. I did a search in the thread and I don't see any mention of either disarm or thievery/stealing related to the gem. I absolutely would have gone with that if I had known it was an option. I mean, party rogue, that's my thing. That said, I haven't gotten the impression that I could use skills that way, so I'll try to be more proactive in that regard.
Also, when the spectral hazard showed up, even though you had a Cleric and a Thaumaturge in the group, a few of you went to attack the spectral hazard rather than back up the squishy, and yet very aggressive, elven rogue.
...
Halanestra continued to play very aggressively, which is consistent for her, and something the group needs to work to support a little better.
I would have to agree that I should have some more support in melee. Halanestra's aggressiveness is going to get her killed without it. I don't get much in the way of defensive abilities as a rogue--or even with my ranger archetype, yet (Twin Parry won't be available for another four levels, and even that's just a +2 circumstance bonus). Besides better armor, Fane's Escape is just about the only thing available to me, and that's not really about defense per se.
As for the loot wishlist, that will take some time. I know that I'll need more defensive items, given how quickly I go squish, but I would also love some additional utility. Would sometime this weekend work for you for the loot wishlist? It'll likely be Sunday; I'm getting my hair done on Saturday (turquoise!) and it'll take most of the day, and the rest of the day will be researching. Since I don't really know what's available (see also: very new to PF2 still), I need to research and that'll take some time.
For botting, are the botting suggestions I wrote in my character sheet sufficient? I realize I haven't been using feint or tumble through or demoralize, but I've gotten the impression that several of the things we've fought were immune so I didn't try. I'll ask about that stuff more often, though. If this isn't sufficient, please let me know what's missing and I'll provide details.
Late-breaking character development news: I realize I never took a level 2 rogue class feat. I'm going to take tumble behind as there's some great synergy with Halanestra being an expert in acrobatics.
I expect to have Zothan’s profile updated today, just need to think about gear upgrades.
Taking Tut-tut was ok, right, since there is an opportunity to join the Firebrands in Highhelm?
@Zothan: Yes, you may take Tut-Tut. I'm going to work on a narrative way for that to happen during downtime to make IC sense but upgrade with that in mind.
For wishlists, it can be whenever. It's just something that I want to plan for so I can swap items out of the APs list for things you might want.
As for Loot:
You each get 150 Gold. This is for selling all the varied small junk, Krohan's before and after payment, and assuming that you sell the potent toxin you found in Thenur's tower to a legit alchemist. You could get more if you sold to a criminal, but that did not seem to me to be something this group would do.
But, there are also other things. I will list the sale value after each, and if no one wants a given item, it can be sold and the price split 5 ways.
2 Cold Iron chunks. They have a value of 10 GP each, but may also be used to defray the cost of a cold iron weapon.
1 Climbig Bolt. Sale Price: 8 GP. (1.4 each)
1 Jade Cat Talisman. Sale Price: 3 GP. (6 SP each)
1 Spore Shepherds Staff Sale Price: 50 gold (10 each)
1 Grim Sandglass Sale Price: 28 gold (5.6 each)
1 Oil of Weightlessness Sale Price: 3 gold. (6 SP each)
1 Alchemist Goggles Sale Price: 50 gold (10 each)
1 Ventriloquist's Ring Sale Price: 30 gold (6 each).
There is also a scroll of Create Food. As there will be much longer Darklands trips later, I'd suggest holding onto this for emergencies.
Krohan will hold onto the Diplomat's Badge that you found and both parts of the dagger for now. Those items will have a role to play going forward.
The training from the Knights that both Korox and Halenestra want will cost 20 GP and take one week of downtime.
Toss out claims or questions as needed. Early next week, I'll be going over some sub-system rules that you will need in the next part, which is the Family Festival.
Given that I just took poison weapon, is the toxin that we found something I can apply to my weapons? Also, I'd consider exploring the option of selling it to some kind of criminal--so long as they're more of the "fighting for the right thing even if it's against the law" sort. I do have Lore: Underworld and quite a good diplomacy skill, so I'd love to explore looking into this in character. Halanestra's opinion of the legal system is... still not great, though these days she's more mindful of how her actions impact others.
Yes, you could apply it to your weapon, once. It's better for the group to sell it. 90 gold for each party member is much more practical than you having pretty massive bonus damage on one attack at some point.
The toxin is a major aspect of the Chapter 2 rewards for the group to be able to gear up to where you should be for level 4 characters.
You're also not going to find any Robinhood-style outlaws in Highhelm. Highhelp Thieves Guilds are more like mob-families.
Touching Base: Part 3. Combat.
This AP has had very little combat. Combat style is one of the things that takes the most time to jell in a group, and typically adventures are much more combat-heavy, so that comes sooner.
To put it in perspective, in the game I am in Korox is running, we're just level 2, and in our third fight, one of which was a six-encounter wave fight. So, seven combat encounters. That's already more fights in a level than you guys have had in four levels as you have had six, three of which happened in Thenur's tower.
Now, you have also managed to bypass some fights, and that's not a bad thing. But, you are still learning each other's styles, as well as general strategy, and I wanted to touch on this as once we reach Book 2, and you go into the real Darklands, things will get harder.
In the mushroom cavern, you all did great. Korox's creation of his own ramp bypassed a fight with a nasty ooze. The Stealth failure against the Shrieker actually helped you as it triggered the fight further out and effectively removed the spore cannons from the battle. You also all worked well as a team.
You also did very well at the tower. While I could tell there was a little disappointment that you could not help Thenur - yet, that help is coming up soon, it was a very fun fight, and playing the crazy gnome was fun for me. However, you made your first real mistake here.
While talking to her, you had come up with the Strategy of going for the
Soulgem and yet no one ever did. While it could not actually be removed, you could try Disarm, Grapple, or Steal against the gem, and any success would have done 4d6 Mental damage and Stunned 1 on a success and 8d6 Mental and Stunned 2 on a Crit Success.Also, when the spectral hazard showed up, even though you had a Cleric and a Thaumaturge in the group, a few of you went to attack the spectral hazard rather than back up the squishy, and yet very aggressive, elven rogue.
It would have been better there for most of the party to focus on Thenur...
Thanks for the advice. I guess Korox was holding back a bit thinking he might need to dispense more healing... You're right. If you've got resources use them.
I see Korox as kind of a "Jack of all trades". He likes to have items, scrolls, elixers etc for any unusual situations that might come up. As a gunslinger (Not to mention DEX based), his main combat is with his +1 Striking hand crossbow. He'll look for a repeating one (Since he already has a magazine for one, a cold iron throwing hammer, and pay the 20 GP to the knights for training.
Korox takes 1 of the chunks of Cold Iron (Not sure how that affects the cost of the hammer, and the climbing bolt if nobody else puts in a claim. I had envisioned Korox originally to be an alchemical crafter... but I think since he's also a gunslinger I'm better to concentrate on that.
Cold Iron (Low Grade) Light Hammer (44 GP , minus anything from the cold iron chunk).
1d6 Bludgeoning Damage, Agile, Thrown (20')
Hardness 5, HP 20, Break 10.
Looks like I need a 4th level Feat to use repeating hand crossbows... so I'll hold off on that for now.
Knights Training 20 GP.
I'll do a little more shopping after we determine the price of the Cold Iron Light hammer, and what else we sell.
Remember that Clerics' have Font and that it's 4 base slots now. Effectively you have four free slots of healing, which makes Clerics amazing in-combat healers and they do not lose any other spellcasting at all as a result. PF2 really buffed Clerics in general.
re: The hammer. A Low-Grade item is not fully made of the substance. For instance, for the hammer, the head (or likely parts of it), will be made of Cold Iron, so there is no additional cost for the hammer itself. The whole thing - non-magical - is 40 gold, 30 if you supply one of the chunks of ore.
At Standard Grade and higher, more and more of the item is made from the precious material, and so the item cost grows.
For a general note, for everyone, something I should have mentioned with the loot post is this: As you spend, make sure what you spend on is something you can see yourself using on a regular basis, or is something that is situational, but when you need it, you're very glad to have it.
Examples of the latter are Hhrulkax's Scroll of Create Food, or Thenur's Potion of Weightlessness, which she would use to be able to bring large amounts of ore at one time to her tower/lab.
That way, you'll both meet the math curve and be able to use whatever fun toys that you grab.
Also, do not sleep on Potions of Healing. Moderates (which are the best bang for the buck) are still out of your price range, but Minors are dirt cheap, and Lesser is really solid.
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The next major plot element will be the Family Festival itself, and mechanically its key element is the Influence Subsystem.
I want to go over its base rules. There will be some specific event adjustments, but understanding the base rules is important, so ask any questions that you have.
To quote GM Core:
Influence is a short-term subsystem wherein the PCs accumulate Influence Points during a social encounter with an NPC to represent their increasing influence. These encounters are a race against the clock to reach Influence Point thresholds in order to sway the NPC. It's perfect for a single social gathering—whether it's a party, a treaty negotiation, or even an attempt to persuade various members of a panel of judges.
What does this mean in play? Each Influence event will have a number of stages. In each stage, each PC will have a choice of one of two actions: Discover and Influence.
Discover is used to learn what might Influence someone and, Influence is used to actually Influence them.
How do these things work?
Discover is used to Discover things that will influence the NPC in question. For example, if you were trying to Influence Xivzeb, you might learn that he is fond of ambushes, and so the Stealth skill - to talk about ways to set them up - would influence him.
When you roll Discover, you'll roll a d20. I will add the best of your Perception or any other skill you may have that would work, as you do not know that, to the roll.
Before you roll, you'll declare the order in which you want to learn the following:
The Skill that can be used to Influence the NPC with the lowest DC (skipping any you already know. Each NPC will have more than one skill that can influence them);
One of the NPC's personal biases. None of the NPCs in SKT has biases, so always leave this last, but I am including the rule for completeness.
One of the NPC's Resistances. These are elements that add to the DC of an Influence check, and show you what to avoid in your Influence RP; and
One of the NPC's Weaknesses. These are elements that reduce the DC of an Influence check, and show you areas you might be able to highlight in your Influence RP.
When you roll the Discover check, you have the typical four degrees of
success.
Crit Success: You learn two of the above.
Success: You learn one of the above.
Failure: You learn nothing.
Crit Failure: You learn the opposite of one of the above.
THIS IS SHARED INFORMATION. ONCE ONE OF YOU MAKES A DISCOVERY, ANY OF YOU CAN USE THAT INFORMATION.
Once you have that information, you can then Influence the NPC. You also may try an Influence check without a Discover, but in that case, you are flying blind and may be rolling something that can not succeed but could fail.
As part of the Influence post, you can RP. It is optional. If you are pressed for time, or just want to, a dice roll and nothing else is fine. However, both Resitances and Weaknesses will only trigger if there is RP. I need to be able to see the RP to know if I can apply either of those.
With Influence, you are gaining Influence points with that NPC on the typical four degrees with them being:
Crit Success: Gain 2.
Success: Gain 1.
Failure: Gain 0.
Crit Failure: Lose 1.
I will be posting an upgraded tally for all 5 NPCs that you will have the chance to Influence after each Influence roll so that you all have that information at all times.
Sweet! Sounds like a fun event.
Zothan would like to upgrade his weapon to something that suits his Dandy personality (and archetype). Lia, how do you feel about an exquisite sword cane?
Also, any advise for must-have items is much appreciated.
You could easily get one in Highhelm, but they are expensive. It would be 90 for the cane, and 35 more for a +1 potency rune. That would be 125 of your 150.
If you wanted to do that, it would be fine.
Excellent. Zothan is fully upgraded to level 4 then.
New Feats:
Breached Defenses (Class Feat)
Tut-Tut (Dandy Archetype)
Unmistakable Lore (Skill Feat)
Purchases:
Exquisite Sword Cane + Potency rune (125 gp total)
Healing potion (lesser) (12 gp)
Zothan is not particularly interested in any of the loot items.
As mentioned several times, Halanestra is going to purchase a striking rune for her rapier (65 gp). This should hopefully address her abysmal damage.
She will also spend the 20 gp for training (85 gp total, 74 total remaining from prior funds and this amount). I'd like to upgrade my rapier to cold iron, but I'm not sure what the process is for that. Would I need to purchase an entirely new rapier and transfer the potency rune, then have the striking rune applied? I'm sure that I can do that in Highhelm, I'm just not sure of the mechanics.
Also, do not sleep on Potions of Healing. Moderates (which are the best bang for the buck) are still out of your price range, but Minors are dirt cheap, and Lesser is really solid.
Halanestra does have two minor healing potions already :) I'd buy more but I'm actually right at my bulk limit! Life will be so much better for her when she hits level 5 and can boost her strength.
I'd also like to claim the jade cat talisman and the ventriloquist's ring. As I begin to explore acrobatics more, I can easily see myself in situations where I'll need to drop down from a great height. Additionally, I'm comfortable taking on the role of party face, as it makes sense for Halanestra given her background, so having items to boost her social skills makes sense. That said, it's more important to me that we keep it than that Halanestra specifically keeps it--it appears we're heading into a social / RP-focused section of the AP so it would be good for someone to have it.
I'd love to purchase an armor potency rune, but they're 160 gp and I just don't have that kind of money. That does raise an interesting point, though: I think it'd make sense for Halanestra to become the group's crafter. In PF2, crafting is a bit of an investment in terms of feats and skills. For magic items (like runes), you need to be an expert in crafting and have the magic item crafting feat. This is a large investment for most other classes, but rogues get skill feats and skill increases every level. If folks think this is a worthwhile investment, I'll take the necessary increases and be ready to craft items at level 6.
Additionally, Halanestra is specifically well-suited to the role of crafter because of her rogue racket. Masterminds (if you couldn't tell from the name) want to keep their intelligence up to successfully RK the creatures they encounter (something I need to get back to doing). Unless I've missed someone, I don't think anyone else in the group has similar motivation to boost intelligence.
What do folks think? I may be making far too many plans for an AP that won't be long enough for them to bear meaningful fruit, so I'd love feedback there.
Sounds good to me, Halanestra.
Zothan is also great at climbing and all the social skills, but he already gets an item bonus from his regalia implement, so the ventriloquist's ring is less useful for him. And he has Land on Your Feet to deal with falling damage.
The climbing bolt looks like it could be very useful, so one of the crossbow folk should hold on to that.
And Halanestra taking up crafting sounds great. Go for it.
The main plan for Zothan is to scare the crap out of opponents with Tut-Tut/standard demoralize and to be super versatile in all skills and Lore types. Even more so when he picks up Tome as his second implement. He'll add a striking rune to his new sword cane when he can afford it and a Dread (lesser) rune to his armor.
It is still a little early to expect Armor Potency runes, as they are expected at about level 8. That does not mean you can't get them earlier of course.
For the Cold Iron upgrade, just like with Korox, it would cost 20 GP with the other chunk of Cold Iron tossed in, and 2 more to transfer the rune from your current weapon.
That would handle both chunks of chunks of cold iron..
Korox had mentioned wanting to hold onto the bolt, and Halanestra the talisman and ring.
Once Dyrm and Jaxi make notes for anything they'd like to keep, we can sell the rest and update your gold.
I also believe that in order to add a Rune to your armor It has to be already magical. You need to have an Armor potency rune of +1 in order to add a property rune to it. If you have a +1 potency, and a +1 resilience you can add 2 items worth of properties.
+1 Potency Rune is a Level 5 item.
Not exactly.
Either of the Essential runes makes Armor or a Weapon magical.
You could have, for instance, a Striking weapon with no potency rune.
However, you can't add property runes without a Potency (the +1, 2, or 3) runes), and the number on the Potency determines how many Property Runes (Flaming, etc), an item can hold.
Striking (for weapons), and Resilience (for Armor) have no effect on the amount of Property runes.
Typically you do go Potency (for the +1 to hit or AC) before Striking/Resilence (for the +1 die of damage/+1 to all saves) as it does you no good to do more damage if you miss, and saves don't matter if you are dead thanks to a crit, but you could do them in opposite directions if you really wanted.