Sky King's Tomb

Game Master Lia Wynn

This is PbP Campaign of the PF2E AP Sky King's Tomb.


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Female (she/her) Cavern Elf Rogue 3 HP 33/33 | AC 19 | F +6 R +10 W +8 | Perc +8 | Rapier +9 1d6 P | Main-gauche +8 1d4 P/S | Shortbow +8 1d6 P 60 ft | Starknife +8 1d4 P/S 20 ft | Spd 35 | Active Conditions: | Exploration Activity: Scout| Hero points: 2 | Arcana +7 Nature +6 Occult +7 Religion +6

I'm actually becoming increasingly convinced that the hero point system is poorly designed. Spending a highly limited resource to do worse (with absolutely no recompense) is just so infuriating and leaves people feeling so defeated.


Male Dwarf (strong blooded) Fighter 3; AC: 20, HP: 49/49; Saves F+10, Ref +8, Will +8 (2 Hero points)
Halanestra Ravenheart wrote:
I'm actually becoming increasingly convinced that the hero point system is poorly designed. Spending a highly limited resource to do worse (with absolutely no recompense) is just so infuriating and leaves people feeling so defeated.

First, it was a beautiful paragraph, I regret the dice rolls forced a change.

I SHOULD be feeling defeated, but at this point, it's almost comical to me . ICly, Dyrm has to work himself up to have more confidence that stealth WILL Work, that it is the best option... he finally goes with the flow... more confident... his team has got him ready and...

CLANK CLANK CLANK

Dibs on boots of Clank reduction if we find a new pair :)


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Dyrm wrote:
Halanestra Ravenheart wrote:
I'm actually becoming increasingly convinced that the hero point system is poorly designed. Spending a highly limited resource to do worse (with absolutely no recompense) is just so infuriating and leaves people feeling so defeated.

First, it was a beautiful paragraph, I regret the dice rolls forced a change.

I SHOULD be feeling defeated, but at this point, it's almost comical to me . ICly, Dyrm has to work himself up to have more confidence that stealth WILL Work, that it is the best option... he finally goes with the flow... more confident... his team has got him ready and...

CLANK CLANK CLANK

Dibs on boots of Clank reduction if we find a new pair :)

First of all, you don't know that a change will be forced. I haven't even read the post that brought these two comments as I'm writing here. I checked Discussion first today.

Second, I don't see Hero Points as an extremely limited resource. Especially with the way I've been giving them out! I'm going to be trying something different in chapter 3, as I'm still trying to find the right pacing for them.

That said, IMO, Hero Points are not supposed to be used every time you think you that you may have failed a roll. They're meant to a) save your life and keep you from bleeding out, or b) help you in a high leverage situation. If you see them differently, that's fine, I am not saying that you are wrong, but it let's you see how I see them, so you can understand my throught process as I play around with rates to give them out.

Third, RAW you have to take the second roll on a Hero Point roll. Rules as me, ignore that. You get the higher roll when you spend one.

Lastly, as a curiosity from me thing, how would you make them work, Halanestra?

Also, I'm glad Dyrm's not feeling defeated :)


Male Dwarf (strong blooded) Fighter 3; AC: 20, HP: 49/49; Saves F+10, Ref +8, Will +8 (2 Hero points)

I didn't mean to insinuate you were at all stingy with the Hero Points if that's how I came across. I much prefer the option to no option at all.

Given how dangerous getting caught seemed to be stressed, it seemed Dyrm failing the roll put the whole party at risk with a fight we might not win when he's already injured. So I guess it was a 'save your life' mentality, though I probably AM too quick to jump that gun. Maybe I misunderstood the threat level. (And it looks like I did as it is actually several rolls)

I'm VERY grateful for your house rule that best roll is used. Thank you VERY Much for that :)


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To be fair, that was how I thought they worked. When I looked it up this morning, I did a double-take. I probably thought that as it has the Fortune trait, which often gives 5E advantage, though not always. But, in Hero Point case, I think that it makes a lot of sense to give it advantage.

Also, as it has the Fortune trait, there is an unwritten but niche use of Hero Points. If you are under a Misfortune trait effect, you can pop a Hero Point to negate it and roll normally, as the two traits cancel.

Also, Dyrm is not wounded. The overnight rest brought everyone to full. Between 8 to 12 hours of medicine checks and Con Bonus times level overnight rest healing, bringing people back to full when they rest overnight - or over day, or over whatever time in this case - is pretty easy.


Female (she/her) Cavern Elf Rogue 3 HP 33/33 | AC 19 | F +6 R +10 W +8 | Perc +8 | Rapier +9 1d6 P | Main-gauche +8 1d4 P/S | Shortbow +8 1d6 P 60 ft | Starknife +8 1d4 P/S 20 ft | Spd 35 | Active Conditions: | Exploration Activity: Scout| Hero points: 2 | Arcana +7 Nature +6 Occult +7 Religion +6

GM Lia, I don't think you're being stingy with hero points either--I've made numerous comments about how they're plentiful in this game! PbP pacing in particular means they're plentiful. My point was rather that they're a resource the player cannot regenerate at will and cannot use more than once on a roll.

I've been thinking for a while now how I'd prefer them to work. The least bad thing I've thought of so far is adding dice (much smaller, like 1d6 or 2d6, maybe scaling like with proficiency bonus?) to a roll. This means you'll always get a better result, even if by an insignificant amount. My philosophy here is that if you spend a resource, you should always get something for it. It will still occasionally be disappointing, but I don't think it would make me feel extremely bitter like I did after rolling one lower than the original roll three times in a row. The important thing is to not make them auto-success points while still being useful, and I think this maintains a good balance of being useful while not being overpowered. You're not going to change a failure into a critical success with that kind of approach, but you can definitely turn a near miss into a hit.

Everything else said on the topic is very reasonable, and I particularly appreciate the clemency of applying them like D&D 5e advantage. That kind of "roll twice and take the higher" mechanic even has precedence in first edition Pathfinder, long before D&D 5e popularized it. In particular, I'm quite fond of the witch hexes which do this, one each for ally and enemy rolls. Hex an enemy with it and make them roll a save on, say, baleful polymorph and take the lower of two, suddenly you have a spare familiar ;)


Male Dwarf (strong blooded) Fighter 3; AC: 20, HP: 49/49; Saves F+10, Ref +8, Will +8 (2 Hero points)

Pardon folks. I'm going to be slow posting as for the last few days I've been a bit sick, and it's gotten onto a full blown fever. I think it's the flu. Ugh.


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I hope you get better soon Dyrm!

Adding a proficiency bonus to a hero point roll would be broken pretty quickly in PF2E, as your level is your proficiency bonus. Adding a d6 per point of proficiency bonus to a d20 would be pretty close to auto-crit by level 3 or 4 :).


Male; AC 20 (22), HP 40/40 Hero Points 2/3, Spd 20. Dwarf (Forge Blessed) Cleric (Warpriest) / 3 Gunslinger - Way of the Spellshot Perception +8; Fort +9, Ref +8, Will +10

Hero points are difficult to monitor in PbP. At my table I have an hourglass and give a new hero point every hour, but that is of course not translatable. The "tabletop" game however moves much faster... so the PC's use them, but often run out.

One Podcast I listen to has a rule that if you use a Hero point and roll less than "10" you can just take a 10. Still might not succeed, but you don't often end up with a worse roll.


Female (she/her) Cavern Elf Rogue 3 HP 33/33 | AC 19 | F +6 R +10 W +8 | Perc +8 | Rapier +9 1d6 P | Main-gauche +8 1d4 P/S | Shortbow +8 1d6 P 60 ft | Starknife +8 1d4 P/S 20 ft | Spd 35 | Active Conditions: | Exploration Activity: Scout| Hero points: 2 | Arcana +7 Nature +6 Occult +7 Religion +6

Sorry to hear, Dyrm, please remember lots of fluids!

I didn't mean a d6 per point of proficiency bonus, I'm sorry, I didn't explain that well. I mean adding a die as your level of proficiency with the task increases--but I can see that being easily broken too. Maybe just 1-2d6 at most?

I definitely like the take 10 approach--I don't think I've wanted to use a hero point on a roll when I've rolled more than 10 (... except blasted Fort saves...), as I try to focus on the things I'm good at and 10 + whatever is usually good enough, or at least not a critical failure.


Ysoki Duskwalker Exemplar/Vigilante 3 (He/Him) | HP 39/39 | AC 20 (21 w/Bangle, 21 w/Raised Shield, 22 w/Both) (T) | F +8 (E) | R +9 (T) | W +7 (E) | Per +5 (T) | Stealth +9 (T) | Spd 30 ft | Exploration Activity Avoid Notice| Hero Points 1/3 | Active Ikon Palisade Bangle | Active Conditions None | Active Persona The Night Shepherd

I'm having a difficult week. My posting will be spotty for a while. Please bot me as needed.


Female (she/her) Cavern Elf Rogue 3 HP 33/33 | AC 19 | F +6 R +10 W +8 | Perc +8 | Rapier +9 1d6 P | Main-gauche +8 1d4 P/S | Shortbow +8 1d6 P 60 ft | Starknife +8 1d4 P/S 20 ft | Spd 35 | Active Conditions: | Exploration Activity: Scout| Hero points: 2 | Arcana +7 Nature +6 Occult +7 Religion +6

Still here, just of absolutely no use with breaking stone. Halanestra is not about to start poking rocks with her sharp blades, that seems like a great way to ruin them.


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Halanestra Ravenheart wrote:
Still here, just of absolutely no use with breaking stone. Halanestra is not about to start poking rocks with her sharp blades, that seems like a great way to ruin them.

There are no rules for damage to items for using them to break something open, and that's a level of simulation that I have no desire to just down the rabbit hole on. If that's a worry, it doesn't need to be at all.


Male Dwarf (strong blooded) Fighter 3; AC: 20, HP: 49/49; Saves F+10, Ref +8, Will +8 (2 Hero points)

Okay. Antibiotics taken and I am no longer as deadbrained. I'll try to catch up. And thank you for the words of concern


Female (she/her) Cavern Elf Rogue 3 HP 33/33 | AC 19 | F +6 R +10 W +8 | Perc +8 | Rapier +9 1d6 P | Main-gauche +8 1d4 P/S | Shortbow +8 1d6 P 60 ft | Starknife +8 1d4 P/S 20 ft | Spd 35 | Active Conditions: | Exploration Activity: Scout| Hero points: 2 | Arcana +7 Nature +6 Occult +7 Religion +6

Glad to hear you're doing better, please remember to hydrate too, especially if you're suffering through the US heat right now!


Male Dwarf (strong blooded) Fighter 3; AC: 20, HP: 49/49; Saves F+10, Ref +8, Will +8 (2 Hero points)

I may have spoken too soon. But third time is the charm.


Female (she/her) Cavern Elf Rogue 3 HP 33/33 | AC 19 | F +6 R +10 W +8 | Perc +8 | Rapier +9 1d6 P | Main-gauche +8 1d4 P/S | Shortbow +8 1d6 P 60 ft | Starknife +8 1d4 P/S 20 ft | Spd 35 | Active Conditions: | Exploration Activity: Scout| Hero points: 2 | Arcana +7 Nature +6 Occult +7 Religion +6

A mechanics question before I post my turn: I'm considering using Figment (per my Otherworldly Magic ancestry feat) to distract Stonemaker and thus make them off-guard to me.

Figment description wrote:

When you Cast or Sustain the Spell, you can attempt to Create a Diversion with the illusion, gaining a +2 circumstance bonus to your Deception check.

Is this Create a Diversion action part of the two actions to cast Figment, or do I need to spend a separate action for it?


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You do not need to spend another action as the spell says that you Create a Diversion. It's basically what the spell does, makes a diversion.

However, I would point out that you are much more than 30 feet away from and in cover, so you could also just Hide to gain off-guard, which would give you two remaining actions rather than just one.

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