[ooc]I’m cool with moving out as soon as possible. Do we have a magical source of food and water or do we need to stock up on rations and water skins?
Zed could learn the "Create Water" orison.
Otherwise we're out of luck. A scroll of "Create Food and Water" is 375gp, if we want to stock up on those. But buying rations and carrying them in a bag of holding is probably simpler.
We're a 12th level party, food/water should be absolutely no issue for us, even if that's just stockpiling a bunch in a bag of holding.
@Gaelan Zindarien, I believe you have better use for your limited spell slots than Haste, which I can provide plentyful.
How about Angelic Aspect or Archon's Aura? Displacement or See Invisibilty if you wanted a nice buff from the bard spell list.
I played a Paladin for a long time and I know how scarce 4th level casting is.
same goes @Roet Heineous. Your Haste extract only works for one person. Let me take care of hasten the party, thus you have two slots to improve versatility.
We're a 12th level party, food/water should be absolutely no issue for us, even if that's just stockpiling a bunch in a bag of holding.
It should, and yet here we are. Aja- you’re the only person in the party with a bag of holding... do you mind if we load it up with trail rations and water skins? I could buy a handy haversack or ring of sustenance if necessary but then I won’t have any gold for healing items...
no problem. There's plenty of room. I believe.
@Gaelan Zindarien, I believe you have better use for your limited spell slots than Haste, which I can provide plentyful.
How about Angelic Aspect or Archon's Aura? Displacement or See Invisibilty if you wanted a nice buff from the bard spell list.
I played a Paladin for a long time and I know how scarce 4th level casting is.same goes @Roet Heineous. Your Haste extract only works for one person. Let me take care of hasten the party, thus you have two slots to improve versatility.
Cool, will definitely switch out Haste then for Displacement and Bladed Dash for See Invisibility (it’s a 2nd level inquisitor spell). As for food and water, Gaelan has a ring of sustenance.
It's a good point - I will switch my spells as well. I'll have it all set before the end of the day. I might change my Fiendish Wrath as well, since it seems we have people giving morale bonus (I was using it mostly for the Rend but it seems like a waste).
@GM- how big a stickler are you for tracking things like rations? Can we just pay like 100 gold (or some other figure) for a bunch of water skins and trail rations to toss in the sack, or do we need to pick a number of days and actually mark them off as we go?
Not a stickler at all - I usually hand-wave it.
Perfect! I’ve been super busy but I’ll try to get healing items bought tonight or tomorrow so we can get moving.
No problem, waiting for the party to complete purchases/character before moving the action.
Character is fully updated and ready to move on. I can contribute 2271 gp for healing supplies, if needed.
Aja and Zed bought their own healing supplies, and I didn't see a post from Roet about having extra gold for it. So, with my 2,000g, if Gaelan contributes 2125g, we could get: 2 clw wands, 2 scrolls of remove blindness/deafness, 2 scrolls of remove curse, and 1 scroll of breath of life. Gaelan can remove disease with LoH, Roet can make infusions or restoration, and Aja has scrolls of remove paralysis, remove disease, remove curse, and break enchantment.
Does that sound good to everyone?
I believe that sounds excellent!
Excellent Sola!
I will contribute more as soon as we get more gold, but will happily create a bunch of infusions (some of them for cure wounds as well).
Who wants to carry the stuff Gaelan and I bought? I don't mind carrying some of it, but I can't actually use them at all so its probably better for someone else who can to have them? Especially the scroll of breath of life... that has to be used right away if/when someone dies so it should be in the possession of whoever would use it (probably Aja, I'm guessing).
I can take it and put it in one of my spring loaded scroll cases.
Excellent. Thank you.
Just to clarify how these teleportation gates work, do we need to physically cross some sort of barrier before using the next teleportation scroll? Or could we just spam teleport a few times to get through them all?
Thanks for the vote of confidence Zed! I tried to really familiarize myself with how all this tactical stuff will work so I could play Sola well. And, for RP, she is accustomed to being a leader on the battlefield and will probably continue to offer suggestions for how to approach things and think tactically as a team and whatnot. But, as a player I don’t want anyone to feel like they’re being told how to play their character or anything like that, so if anyone ever feels (ooc) like I’m being a little bit too forthcoming with those ideas please feel free to say so. At the end of the day the games about all of us having fun and it’s better to TPK enjoying the game than to stay alive and not enjoy it.
@GM How about you put the maps and our icons on a Google Slide. Thus we can move ourselves.
Not very tech savvy and I don't use Google much other than the search engine- don't know how to do that. :)
Just use This link. It's like powerpoint
I'm happy to help get maps set up. I've created like...hundreds at this point.
That being said I'm perfectly happy with the GM handling maps this way. I can already tell from him perfectly positioning my character based on a description that he has a good tactical mindset.
Just use This link. It's like powerpoint
Yeah, that's too complicated...lol. Thanks though. I'll just stick with my maps. At least it's better than those GMs who do theater of the mind with no maps whatsoever.
Roet, I have been reviewing your character and the boards and there is support for the contention that natural armor bonuses do not stack. Therefore, Armor of the Pit +2 and Mutagen +4 and Nimble +2 and Bone-Spike +2 do not stack - only the highest will apply. Therefore, currently with Barkskin, your AC is 36. You can make the necessary changes to your discoveries and feats. Apologies, it took me this long.
Natural armor bonuses don’t stack unless they say so (like barkskin, which is an increase to existing armor, which is what hero lab is doing (some are enhancement bonus, etc). For example, barkskin and ironskin don’t stack. The others in my list stack accordingly, and the mutagen increases go on top of it. I redid the calculations multiple times too - hero lab is doing it right.
I know natural armor stacks with Barkskin, which is an enhancement bonus.
REF: The Glossary regarding Bonus Types.
Natural armor bonuses stack with all other bonuses to armor class except other natural armor bonuses. Link
It's quite clear so I am not changing my mind.
Wow, the first day I'm really busy and you guys were off to the races! I'll read through gameplay and get a post up asap.
Also, I don't want to stick my nose in where it isn't welcome but I think I may be able to help with the natural armor issue if that's alright?
Armor of the Pit is always on and guarantees a minimum +2 natural armor bonus.
Your base mutagen grants a +4 natural armor bonus which doesn't stack with AotP, but bone-spike specifically modifies your mutagen to increase its natural armor bonus to +6. So, +2 from AotP with no mutagen increasing to +6 (not +8) with a mutagen.
Nimble also grants a +2 natural armor bonus. As worded that part of the advanced mutagen is worthless (unless you have a variant mutagen that provides no natural armor bonus) because it will not stack with the normal mutagen bonus. So, still +2 or +6.
Barkskin is an enhancement bonus to natural armor and should stack with your base natural armor. At 12th caster level it grants a +5 bonus, so it should put you at +7 without mutagen or +11 with it.
The way HeroLab seems to be calculating it, it's considering the +2 from Armor of the Pit as a racial bonus to the Natural Armor of the creature, which I agree it's probably wrong - and it's assuming that Nimble increases the natural armor bonus from the mutagen by 2, instead of granting a 2. The most conservative reading of all of it would mean that it's calculating 4 higher than it should:
No mutagen: 10 + 9 (Armor) + 3 (Dex) + 2 (Deflection) + 1 (Dodge) + 2 (Natural) = 27
Mutated: 10 + 9 (Armor) + 5 (Dex) + 2 (Deflection) + 1 (Dodge) + 6 (Natural) = 33
With Barkskin, these are 5 higher (or 6 higher with Ironskin).
Now, honestly, Nimble should be counted as an increase to the natural armor bonus - the prerequisite for the master chymist prestige class is to have mutagen, which in its most basic form grants already +2 to natural armor... But I don't mind if we want to simply ignore it.
Just use This link. It's like powerpointYeah, that's too complicated...lol. Thanks though. I'll just stick with my maps. At least it's better than those GMs who do theater of the mind with no maps whatsoever.
too bad. my work network blocks the site you're using. It's theater of the mind for me then. At least sometimes, I do have my phone, too. Unless you wanted to just provide your Roll20 link.
@Roet- there may be an argument to be made that RAI they should have made nimble modify the natural armor bonus from the base mutagen but RAW it doesn’t, it just grants its own natural armor bonus (although fey mutagen and inspired cognatogen don’t grant a natural armor bonus of their own, iirc, so there are a couple opportunities to gain the benefit as written).
@Roet- there may be an argument to be made that RAI they should have made nimble modify the natural armor bonus from the base mutagen but RAW it doesn’t, it just grants its own natural armor bonus (although fey mutagen and inspired cognatogen don’t grant a natural armor bonus of their own, iirc, so there are a couple opportunities to gain the benefit as written).
I think I made it all clear on my own post, mate. It's however the GM decided (sorry if it sounds rude, but I'm not really asking you).
Okay Roet, we are going to proceed with the conservative interpretation:
No mutagen: 10 + 9 (Armor) + 3 (Dex) + 2 (Deflection) + 1 (Dodge) + 2 (Natural) = 27
Mutated: 10 + 9 (Armor) + 5 (Dex) + 2 (Deflection) + 1 (Dodge) + 6 (Natural) = 33
With Barkskin, these are 5 higher (or 6 higher with Ironskin).
Now, another issue that has come to light: Your character is level 8 alchemist/level 4 master chymist. For purposes of extracts oer day and CL, you are only a 10th level alchemist. For purposes of qualifying for the greater mutagen, your alchemist level is 12th level. However, for all other benefits, your alchemist level is 8th level - which means that you do not qualify for pounce as you only get 2 beast shape I abilities, which do not include pounce. Now, you may want to rectify that changing your build to Alchemist 10/Master Chymist 2. Up to you. But there are changes that need to be made.
Aja, I am confused how Searing Light is a 1st level spell for you. Searing Light is a 3rd level spell. Magical lineage reduces the level to 2 when applying a metamagic feat. So a quickened searing light is 5th level. What did I miss?
@Fox: My caster level for alchemist is 12 - please notice the feats I took. In terms of mutagen the master chymist prestige class is designed to work to improve on the mutagen levels.
Also, I don’t agree with you rolling the save or suck saves for my character as it takes out all my agency.
I humbly suggest we pause for a moment, step back and take inventory of the game. I can see some contention brewing, and I would rather we take a breather and discuss things.
Sound good everybody? We are all new to each other and need to figure out how to navigate playing with one another. Also do remember that text as a medium for communication completely removes tone, inflection, and body language, so it is easy to misinterpret somebody else's words.
:)
@Roet: Thanks for the clarification. As I told you all at the beginning, high level is super complicated especially with all these non-core classes and feats. So if I question something, because I don't know all the splatbooks by heart, I ask for your patience and to indulge me.
As for the saves, I'm not going to apologize for moving the game along and rolling the saves for you or any other character. I roll initiative and perception and certain saves. I don't roll the paralysis saves for you because you can avoid gaze so it's your choice to risk that. However, to keep the game moving, I will use GM discretion on certain matters. Now if you are mad that you failed them, then you shouldn't put a melee fighter with +10 will save on the front line. If you do, you risk getting charmed/possessed/dominated. Now whether you roll the saves or I roll them, it is irrelevant in my opinion as the roll depends on an RNG program that neither of has control over. So you either trust me as a GM or you think I'm trying to screw you. If it's the latter, then this is not the game for you.
I don’t want to exasperate anything but I’m having trouble following how the feats or prestige class get you to greater beastform, Roet? The various different beastform mutagens don’t just scale with your alchemist level, they’re separate class features. So, it looks like you should have improved beastform mutagen because you got it at 6th level by giving up swift poisoning, but you never reached 10th level as beastmorph alchemist (or gave up poison immunity) to get greater beastform mutagen?
I’ll be stepping out of the game. Thanks for the invite, GM, and have fun guys. GM Fox, please move my character to inactive so the campaign doesn’t appear in my list of active campaigns anymore.
That is unfortunate to hear. I wish you well.
GM, how do we want to handle the current combat?
Also, do we want to continue with our current party, or pick up another player?
I’m sorry to hear that Roet; I really hope my question wasn’t part of your decision! I hope you have better luck with your next game.
I know this isn’t a democracy but my 2cp (fwiw) is that we were sort of counting on having an alchemist to help with some of the healing and things like restoration... we may be hard pressed to make it through the rest of the adventure without replacing him.
Aja, I am confused how Searing Light is a 1st level spell for you. Searing Light is a 3rd level spell. Magical lineage reduces the level to 2 when applying a metamagic feat. So a quickened searing light is 5th level. What did I miss?
Solar bloodline gives it to me as a first level spell.
It's unfortunate, but this can happen. High lvel characters are difficult and with the lack of communication through a board some differences can occur. I don't like how he just left instead of adjusting his character, but for the game, at least it happened early.
We should check the recruitment thread and find a suitable replacement. There are always people willing to make a character specific to a party's requirement.
@Roet: I am sorry you feel that way. Good luck.
@Party: I will find someone from the Recruitment thread.
Aja: Sorry for being dense, but in the description it says Searing Light (3rd). So how is it a 1st level spell? Also, how is the scorching ray doing 4d8+8? Shouldn't it be 4d6+4+3?
Sounds good GM.
I can't speak for the damage bonuses on searing ray, but she is right that her bloodline gets it as a 1st level spell, since it's the bonus spell at 3rd level (a level at which sorcerers highest level spell is still 1).
There are often domains and whatnot that give bonus spells at modified levels, searing light as 1st is pretty solid!
Ah, thanks for the explanation, Zed. Appreciate it, makes sense now.
Aja: Sorry for being dense, but in the description it says Searing Light (3rd). So how is it a 1st level spell? Also, how is the scorching ray doing 4d8+8? Shouldn't it be 4d6+4+3
Hehe. That's how all bloodlines are written. the number in the brakcet is the character level that you get your bloodline spell. You get the first one, a 1st level spell, at 3rd level. Some bloodlines give spells as a different spell-level than they usually would be. Edit: ninja'd by Zed
searing light as 1st is pretty solid!
indeed it is. It's worth building around, and it would be especially cool for playing at lower levels, too :). Sadly it doesn't combine with the bloodline arcana, which only works with fire descriptor.
scorching ray has 4d8 base + 4 from Blood Havoc + 4 from bloodline arcana + 3 from inspire courage
You should also get my +2 morale bonus to hit and damage on ray attacks, Aja, but it doesn’t look like your bloodline arcana damage bonus should apply? And at CL 12, shouldn’t your base damage be 5d8 vs most things and 10d6 vs undead?
As a more immediate question, what are we going to do about the current combat? Is Roet still there, or are we going to step back and redo the scene or something?
Also if Roet still is there, my actions will be contingent on if he makes the new save with protection from evil active.