GM Losonti's Wrath of the Righteous (Inactive)

Game Master Losonti

Not to be a killjoy, but don't the DCs of Intimidation checks to demoralize increase each time you target the same creature? I think you reach a point of diminishing returns pretty quickly on scaring them without hurting them before they stop being afraid of you. :)

@ Benedic I totally agree with your statement. To be honest, I simply forgotten which one I had Demoralized...lol.

I am a firm believer that each pc has a job that is--usually--clearly presented from level 1. Tristan's is NOT dps...yet.

The "forge" theory of Pathfinder combat would suggest that we don't have enough "arm" so to speak. They aren't hurting us much, so our "anvil" is about right. A lot of us seem to be holding back on our resources because we suspect a big bad is coming up.

Rather than just saying we win, maybe the enemy will decide it's hopeless and flee?

The "forge" theory of Pathfinder combat would suggest that we don't have enough "arm" so to speak. They aren't hurting us much, so our "anvil" is about right.

wat?

The Forge of Pathfinder Combat

TL;DR: Basically, there are three roles during combat. The hammer deals the necessary damage, but just as importantly the anvil makes sure that the enemy doesn't hit you, and the arm makes sure that the hammer has enough strength to hit. If combat isn't going smoothly, one of these things is being neglected, according to the author's essay.

The terms are roughly equivalent to the more common terms: hammer=DPS, anvil=control, arm=support. It doesn't cover tanks or healers because those role are inefficient without also covering another above role. Non-combat roles don't figure in the analysis because its beyond the scope of the article's thesis.

My problem is that I don't have a lot of useful things to do with my spell slots. I have cure light wound, in case our other healers go negative. Vanish is my emergency get out of combat spell. And alter musical instruments is a RP choice. I haven't used those slots very efficiently. Instead of healing people I could have insisted on a potion and then used vanish this combat.

Read the article. Found it interesting. I have a few issues with it, but I find the most important part is not the one on which they put the most emphasis, mainly positioning. And it is hard to coordinate in PbP, I've found.

Also, no arm will fix continuous bad rolling.

Vanish? Sounds pretty useful to me! Then I could sneak into position for a stab without risking the AoO.... :-P

We're doing okay in the fight, just slow going with the dice not cooperating. We've got some damage on us, but we've debuffed the heck outta them to make it more survivable on our end. I know I've got one spell left, and was saving it for the alleged big bad coming up.

Vanish? Sounds pretty useful to me! Then I could sneak into position for a stab without risking the AoO.... :-P

Maybe once you get your 3rd die of sneak attack. Right now it's better for me to attack and try to flank with you.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, everyone. There's clearly a consensus to continue, so continue we shall. Just worried that it might be getting boring for you all.

And yes, Demoralize DCs increase by 5 every time you try to use it on the same target. Tristan just keeps rolling incredibly well on those checks.

I guess I didn't understand flanking well enough....

From the rule, Flanking applies whenever an opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner.

Do I have to be directly across from an ally? Because on the map at the moment, Massielo is on the opposite "side" of the enemy. But since I was on the corner.... ??

No problem of course. I can always use a good rules lesson! :-P

Yes directly across. I added the line you're supposed to draw to determine flanking between you and Massielo, it does not pass through opposite borders or corners, so no flanking.

This can come down to a judgement call when reach or large creatures are involved. But medium size with 5ft reach is clear.

If the enemy is medium sized (or smaller) you have to be directly opposite to flank. If it's large (or bigger) there's a little more wiggle room. Basically, for large creatures, if you're on the corner then you only flank with someone directly across the diagonal, but if you're in one the two squares right next to it you flank with anyone in either of the two squares right next to it on the opposite side. I think that holds true as you continue scaling up, but there might be a certain size where you can flank from one corner with someone near the opposite corner instead of only directly across the diagonal?

There's a picture with examples in the hardcopy of the book, but I don't think that's available on AoN or d20pfsrd... You might be able to find it through google though?

With this many melee people you might want to consider the gang up feat.

Thanks! Always good to get the clear picture.

I did find a picture Legacy rules. But it only showed flanking on a large creature so I was sure. I get it clear now!

Another weird twist.... (Unless there is errata somewhere changing this?) tiny and smaller creatures cannot flank. ?? So an interesting way to stop small rogues from getting easy sneak attacks would be to shrink them? Doesn't make much sense though. It has something to do with them being able to share space and having 0 natural reach. But if that is valid, maybe the rule should be that you can't flank a creature 2 sizes larger than you. ??

lol. I think that rule is to stop fine and diminutive assassins from being outrageous. Really small creatures (or characters that can make themselves really small) get huge bonuses to dex and stealth (plus size bonuses to AC and attack rolls) so if you can make a rogue diminutive their weapon might only do a single point of damage but with finesse training they'll still do a bunch of damage, and if they could flank too like that they'd get sneak attack on every attack... it'd be like a little mosquito that never misses, doing like 1d1 +10 (or whatever their Dex is up to) plus 5-10 d6 of sneak attack. It's funny to think about but it would be a nightmare in practice.

For the low price of a 1 level dip in swashbuckler you can get an archetype for that.

I feel your pain, Selann, I'm playing my first rogue right now and it is not as easy as people make it look.

If it helps traditional rogues are not meant to be combat monsters. You can build them that way but you have to try harder than a more martial class.

After refreshing myself on my high school trigonometry I've convinced myself that reach weapons have a better flank arc than I previously thought. Say if Tristan were to 5ft step SE, he and I would be flanking because of my reach weapon. The flank line would pass through the corner closest to me and the boarder closest to him.

I'm not sure if it's worth it to write a rigorous proof or consider other cases.

The things I do to avoid working.

Nooooo!

Instead of fixing the curse we just cursed Tristan too by making him attack...

Lol

@Tristan, think imp. dirge of doom would be a good feat to pick up?

I like it! Then we can quote Forest Gump!

Lol, never change.

Blase? I thought I typed blades! Oh well. Too late to correct now!

Post after work.

My actions are with the assumption that Caliban--actually--told us what spell she casts....

That was my intention, I realize it didn't come across rereading it apologies.

That was fun! Sorry I set you all on fire.

I had an idea that I thought might also be fun but slightly less dangerous, which is to ask y'all some questions about your characters. If we were playing in person, these would probably be a way to help everyone get in-character at the beginning of the session, but we're not so I think I'll just ask one every Sunday.

Just imagine there's a person asking your character this question. Who it is is up to you. It could be a stranger, a trusted friend, an important religious figure, whatever you think is most interesting. Not answering is also valid!

"What's your earliest memory?"

”My earliest memory?!?”

It felt like a surprisingly heavy question but, sitting in the empty tavern after hours sharing drinks and leftover food with the owner and the small band that had played while she danced all night, it seemed oddly natural as well. ”Well...” she answers, ”it would have to be sitting with my mom in front of the hearth. We had this big bearskin rug from a polar bear my dad had killed, and every night after we ate dinner the two of us would lie on that rug in front of the smoldering coals from the cooking fire and she would tell me stories about... well, about my dad, and the rest of our family, and about adventures she had with him before they had any kids. She was a great story teller, and he had had so many amazing adventures to tell about. She’d play with hair and I’d just lay there and listen, usually until I fell asleep at that age...”

Junior thinks back and says with a smile, "Oh yeah! It was my mom making meat pies with me and my sister. My dad came in and needed my help with something at the temple so I wasn't able to partake. Which is ok, mom wasn't very good baker." Junior intentionally leaves out what kind of meat his mom was using and which temple his father was taking him to.

Massielo thinks about the question. He has trouble finding a memory. Mostly feelings is what he manages to recollect. But one memory comes to mind. He answers "My father coming home from the barracks. His eyes were so different that day. Back then there was no way for me to understand, but now I do, he probably had a big discussion with another captain. What I remember is how tired he looked. When he saw me, he immediately came to look what I was doing. Apparently he was very startled at the cat I was petting. I don't really recall anything else that happened that day, but my father seemed a little afraid of me. Then my mother came home and they talked and I got scared. But after talking, both of them came play with me and we had a great time. Now thinking about it makes me realize I probably healed that cat. It was dirty and sticky, which means it was probably very blooded and wounded..."

"My earliest memory?"

Selann pauses, surprised by the question. He was learning magic, not history, and seldom if ever thought about his young years when he still had living parents.... And why would his instructor care about a story from his youngling years? "My father was from a family of merchants, and trained to work on trading ships. As small as he was he was still a natural up in the rigging. I heard that he had a knack for spotting a knot that wasn't quite right, or noticing that the wind was about to change so the sheets could be adjusted for it. They, his family that is, weren't very happy when he got the calling to be a knight. But I'm told that's not a calling that you can ignore."

"But that's not my earliest memory, it's just some frame work for that. You see, I've always been pretty good at hiding. Being small helps, but I seemed to have my Dad's knack to glimpse things about to happen even back then. He was leaving with the ship again and I didn't want him to leave. Or I guess I didn't want him to leave and not take me? So I sneaked on board. The men aboard were very busy getting the ship ready to sail, and I guess if anyone spotted me they just didn't care as I wasn't part of their job. When I was certain that nobody was watching I sneaked into the hold and hid behind a big coil of rope. Everything was going just as I planned until...." Selann pauses with a slight shudder of his shoulders, "Well, remember that halfling younglings are really small. And the rat that found me, well, it wasn't! My Dad faced teasing for months, or maybe even years after that incident! They said that my shrieks could cut glass, but the men that found me kicked the rats away and hauled me up on deck. The ship had barely left the port and had to lower a long boat to send me home. I learned a really important lesson that day! Never hide in a corner!"

While the group is resting, Benedic makes a point of checking on everyone that he considers to be his charge, specifically Anevia Tirablade, Aravashnial, and Horgus Gwerm. Sitting with each of them, he engages them in conversation, trying to get to know them better and allay their fears. When one of them asks him what his earliest memory is, he frowns.

"My... earliest memory..." He stares off into space, suddenly introspective. He doesn't like to talk about growing up in Nerosyan, his father always very busy and his mother... well, his mother was a mysterious outsider who seduced his father and then presumably returned to one of the pits of the Abyss after he was born. But he remembers, dimly, a time when he was too young to understand these facts, when he would sit in the north chapel of the Cruciform Cathedral and stare at the beautiful stained-glass window depicting "Iomedae Ascendant," an artist's impression of the woman who became the goddess rising in the air and surrounded by a blue celestial aura. In it, she wears her armor and carries her longsword and shield, but Benedic had always been drawn to her eyes in particular. They seemed to be at once caring and distant, full of equal parts concern and judgment. He loved her desperately, but just as desperately he did not want to disappoint her.

It devastated him when he learned the truth. He remembers returning to the chapel and irrationally focusing all of his anger and hate at the window. How could she? How could an all-powerful goddess have allowed this to happen? In time, he came to understand that the gods do their work primarily through their worshippers, that they have little to no direct influence, but at the time he felt nothing but the cold sting of betrayal. It was as if the perfect image he had of his mother had been corrupted, forever taken away from him and replaced with someone distant and implacable, who knew the seed of evil that lived inside of him and who opposed him just as she opposed all the spawn of the demons of the Worldwound. She saw what his mother was, and she saw what he was. He could not hide from Iomedae's eyes.

Troubled by these thoughts, Benedic shakes his head. "Why, my earliest memory, of course, is of my devotion to Iomedae, and my faith in Her righteous cause. I am a true servant of the Inheritor." He smiles in a way that he believes is comforting. "Do not worry, for She watches over us. She strengthens my arm and reinforces my shield. Her light guides us. Her eyes--" He blinks as he suddenly falters, but he catches himself. "Her eyes see our plight. She will not abandon us."

@Benedic- I like your memory but with your knowledge (planes) wouldn't you have figured out by now that your mom couldn't have been a demonic creature (since, you know, you're an aasimar and all)?

"What's your earliest memory?"

Tristan grins. The youth (not far from that memory) smiles at the question. He was asked this upon reaching his first year of Secondary school. His teacher was an old former Inquisitor. A bit stern--but always fair--he assigned this very question to the class.
Tristan's answer is now the same as it was in that oral report.
My first recollection, as a child, was the sounds of baying horses; mingled in with the harsh screaming of the witches that my Father's Inquisition were dealing with.

Tristan's blue eyes look up to each individual in attendance. The youth's shoulder length blond hair seems to glow a bit from the lighting, as he shakes his head sadly.
It is a memory that I include in my prayers to The Inheritor! I pray that my Way not be filled with those screams.

Tristan than grins his mischievous grin.

I see we all have had very nice and pleasant childhoods, except maybe Greta. XD

@Benedic- I like your memory but with your knowledge (planes) wouldn't you have figured out by now that your mom couldn't have been a demonic creature (since, you know, you're an aasimar and all)?

He's clearly delusional. And I'll take a guess that it will be a revelation that will be resolved down the line.

It's very easy for people to refuse to see the truth, even (or especially) when they should know better. I'm sure we can all think of real-life instances.

Tristan comes from privilege. Unfortunately (in his eyes) it came from overzealousness.

I see we all have had very nice and pleasant childhoods, except maybe Greta. XD

Lol... you might want to read more carefully! Why isn't anyone else with them for this special time? Where are the father and other children mentioned in passing?

@Benedic- I like your memory but with your knowledge (planes) wouldn't you have figured out by now that your mom couldn't have been a demonic creature (since, you know, you're an aasimar and all)?

He thinks it’s worse than that. His mother clearly had ties to the celestial planes, but that just makes her defection to the enemy so much more traumatic. He has a hard time rationalizing how a loving parent could possibly have more important things to do somewhere else, and that has led to a worldview where he believes people can be easily seduced into evil that is against their natures, unless they are constantly vigilant.

Selann, did you want the masterwork dagger?

If we pry out the gems of the prayer book would it still be worth 50gp?

Did one of the martial focused divine casters want the wand of Divine favor? Its good but will outlive its usefulness soon.

I took the liberty of putting Radiance on Benedic's sheet but if someone else wants it just move it over or give the word.

Yeah, I can't imagine there's much market value in unholy books, particularly in Mendev, so the value is almost entirely just from the gems.

I remember thinking it was kind of funny when we started this adventure path that even though we have like four Iomedan Crusader types, none of us are actual paladins. I never pictured Benedic as a paladin-- I built him as a cleric, focused on buffing spells and channeling. But now, experiencing him taking Radiance into his hand and pledging to keep it safe, I feel torn. Like Junior said, it feels like a sign that Iomedae wants him to follow in Yaniel's footsteps.

I think I could very easily make Benedic a VMC paladin, because he doesn't really need half of the feats I had planned for him to take. That would have very little impact on his character so far; he would have gained an aura of good at 1st level and would have to uphold a paladin code, but apart from his pomposity and fervent belief that Beatrics's parents were up to no good, I don't think he's strayed very far from the typical do-gooder behaviors.

What do you folks think? GM, would that be something I could change?

I have no issue with that. Chalk it up to divine intervention. :)

I love the idea of Benedic becoming a part-time Paladin!

I also really like the concept of VMC, although I wish they had executed it better (some of them are great and others are awful unless you happen to be in just the right build for it). I’m probably going to be too feat starved to take one (since needing exotic weapon proficiency has left me with basically 0 feats at 2nd level), but if they’re an option (as they seem to be) I may take a look at them again and think about just how badly I want combat reflexes or power attack, lol.

:D

The great thing is that he will still be a full cleric, just without all the feats I had been planning to take-- many of which had kind of niche use (Encouraging Spell and Protective Channel, for example). I had always intended him to be in the thick of melee anyway, and he has Heavy Armor Proficiency from his archetype. He will still have mid-level BAB, and he won't get really useful paladin things like divine grace or aura of courage, but lay on hands will make him a little better at tanking, if I can draw some of the heat away from Tristan. ;)

What class(es) would you be thinking of VMCing, Greta?

I have use for that wand of Divine Favor, assuming Tristan doesn't want it.

That's so cool with the sword. Really hope Benedic starts wielding it.