Belial's Bastards by GM SnowHeart (a Hell's Vengeance AP)

Game Master SnowHeart

I've had several GMs rule that you can't take 10 on Spellcraft when identifying items. If you can, I would do so.

I've had several GMs rule that you can't take 10 on Spellcraft when identifying items. If you can, I would do so.

Really? I’d say no to taking 20, but not taking 10. No problem with that here. I can followup in gameplay later.

RAW I don't see a reason why you couldn't take 20, if you had 20 days to do it. But you probably don't have time for that in any case.

I guess that’s true, though Take 20 assumes 2 minutes, not 20 days. =D

So would it be legal for us to use or sell the confiscated items? Maybe if we come up with significant justification.

Legal? Knowledge or Profession check. Practically? Who's going to arrest you? >:)

As for the wand, I think Lily would naturally know that is a spell she can cast, just like you know what weapons and armor you can use well. Whether she would want or use the item is a different question.

Added the looted gear that I think we should take from the jail to the sheet. I didn't bother with the mundane gear, except Lily took a crossbow and a shield. Also didn't bother with the quartos. I've claimed what I want and marked the thing that no one apparently wanted as vendor trash, with the exception of the cure light wound potions. If you don't have a potion you should take one or two.

For me, the loot sheet is read only, but Jerax will take two cure light wound potions, and it would be nice if we can distribute the 8 pp as even as possible among the group.

Looks like it's shared now. Here is the sharable link in plain text:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/130K-GXbDjz4Hk-5P-zLJgaybKb7afDSXV8R aOHFQIrI/edit?usp=sharing

I'll opt out of the PP share which means everyone else gets 2. I've updated it to include your potions Jerax. There are 3 up for grabs.

Hmm. The link I have for the campaign does now seem limited (for me) to view only, and when I use the link above, it says the file doesn't exist.

Sorry, the file you have requested does not exist.

Make sure that you have the correct URL and the file exists.

Just waiting for Slenks turn to step out and cast sleep. Happy Monday everyone! Hope you are staying safe. My family set up a QC Code Easter Egg Hunt in our neighborhood that allowed kids to ride their bikes around to complete the hunt while maintaining social distancing (Biking as Outdoor Exercise is allowed in Florida).

Hope you are all finding ways to cope with the "new normal" as I think we have months not weeks before things change much.

Been feeling a little under the weather today. Will try to have something up tonight or tomorrow morning. My apologies. Fortunately I’m quite sure it’s just allergies plus exhaustion at prepping for a training I had to give; nothing serious.

Thought I'd ask since we're using colored borders to distinguish enemies. Is anyone color blind? If so there's a website I can share that helps designers see what a color blind person would see.

Nice saves GM Snowheart! Woohoo!

Hey Players! Post your character's theme song! I'll start!

Jerax Hellfire's Theme

Took me a while but perhaps this.

I've got a lot of calls today but should have time to get an update up. Combats with this many people take a while to post and format.

Take your time.

I didn't take infernal healing today, but we likely want to stay as healed up as possible considering we have two more notices to go.

Absolutely hammered at work today. Aiming to have an update up tonight.

For me, the loot sheet is read only, but Jerax will take two cure light wound potions, and it would be nice if we can distribute the 8 pp as even as possible among the group.

Can you edit the sheet now?

Rebellion Points Updated. Now at 9.

Jerax Hellfire wrote:

For me, the loot sheet is read only, but Jerax will take two cure light wound potions, and it would be nice if we can distribute the 8 pp as even as possible among the group.

Can you edit the sheet now?

Yes. Thank you.

FYI - Getting some reports in another game's discussion thread that new post notifications may not be showing up for everyone. So, please try to click in at least once a day.

I've been getting notifications alright.

I didn't get notifications for the last 3 posts in this game.

Me too, but Veda just observed she isn't, and I have a couple folks in the other game saying they're not (and at least one of them is a very regular poster so it was unusual for him to ghost on the gameplay).

I didn't think Lady Arvanxi was a spellcaster. A sorcerer? I never see her carrying tomes. Hehe. Granted when I've gone to see her, her study habits aren't on my mind.

GM Snowheart, did you house rule to overturn the following for your game?

What exactly do I identify when I’m using Spellcraft to identify a spell? Is it the components, since spell-like abilities, for instance, don’t have any? If I can only identify components, would that mean that I can’t take an attack of opportunity against someone using a spell-like ability (or spell with no verbal, somatic, or material components) or ready an action to shoot an arrow to disrupt a spell-like ability? If there’s something else, how do I know what it is?

Although this isn’t directly stated in the Core Rulebook, many elements of the game system work assuming that all spells have their own manifestations, regardless of whether or not they also produce an obvious visual effect, like fireball. You can see some examples to give you ideas of how to describe a spell’s manifestation in various pieces of art from Pathfinder products, but ultimately, the choice is up to your group, or perhaps even to the aesthetics of an individual spellcaster, to decide the exact details. Whatever the case, these manifestations are obviously magic of some kind, even to the uninitiated; this prevents spellcasters that use spell-like abilities, psychic magic, and the like from running completely amok against non-spellcasters in a non-combat situation. Special abilities exist (and more are likely to appear in Ultimate Intrigue) that specifically facilitate a spellcaster using chicanery to misdirect people from those manifestations and allow them to go unnoticed, but they will always provide an onlooker some sort of chance to detect the ruse.

I'm pretty sure that Jerax has seen Arvanxi cast spells before which has an unmistakable manifestation. Even if Jerax has no knowledge of what spell she's casting something obviously supernatural is happening.

That said I hate this rule. Some magic should be subtle, and if there are no obvious spell components and no obvious spell effect then the only way to detect a spell should be through special senses or detect magic or the like.

I wasn't aware of that FAQ, actually. What's interesting to me is they seem to be saying "there are signs... we don't know what they are, but they are there." If the psychic doesn't need verbal or somatic components, what are the signs? Paizo seems to be shrugging its shoulders; it's rather unsatisfying to me.

But, I see the point, and I guess (to me, despite the FAQ) it's a gray area. I've GM'd and played psychics before, and the games have always erred on the subtle side of this.

Unless it wildly disrupts someone's expectations, my thoughts (and I'm open to discussion) are trying to resolve this in the sense that the psychic basically does not have any verbal or somatic components (i.e., the psychic's spells are cast with the equivalent of the silent and still metamagic feats), but sort of like invisibility, if you're attacking someone, they're going to know where it's coming from, like the psychic's ego pressing on the target's mind.

Keep in mind that this would also apply to monster spell like abilities. Officially there is some sort of weird light show, loud noise, or unnatural smell, or whatever if a monster uses, say, suggestion against a PC. Half the party gets a spellcraft check to see which spell, the other gets a sense motive to notice their friend acting weirdly. Everyone knows they did something to their friend. Removing that, barring an active detect magic spell, the only way to notice it is with the sense motive check. Or if you were the target and you made your will save, then you know you made a will save... for something.

I'm pretty sure that Jerax has seen Arvanxi cast spells before which has an unmistakable manifestation. Even if Jerax has no knowledge of what spell she's casting...

My reasoning for that thought is that when Lady Arvanxi was using her psychic abilities, Jerax was in heated combat with deputies; more interesting in protecting Vade or impressing Cimri.

I have a Psychic Detective Investigator in War for the Crown and that's how we've played it. Some spells like Telempathic Projection, which she has used to buff allies in social portions of the game, become almost impossible to use otherwise.

While she can't stand right there beside someone while using it, as long as she's subtle in her behavior there are no manifestations that signal a spell has been used. Mostly that means finding a quiet spot where she's not engaged with bystanders so she can concentrate on the target without being closely scrutinized during the casting.

It preserves the ability to use mind affecting spells without detection in crowded conditions, but it can't be done on the fly. The burden shifts from hiding an effect to having to prepare the right circumstances before casting.

Oh, Veda doesn't 'get' or 'grow' claws. They're always there. She's just very careful to disguise them as well as possible by keeping them immaculately manicured and polished. The idea is she can't hide them but she can make them look like nails styled to look like claws, rather than claws styled to look like nails.

Think this sort of look

Also, in case people are starting to wonder at this point, Veda is thoroughly apolitical. This is very much a job to her. She totally does see Asmodeans as mostly 'leg humpers' who are trying to ingratiate themselves to superiors so they can slither up the hierarchy.

Veda is much more a character in the Amos Burton or Bronn mold. She's only mildly evil (at this point at least), mostly because she has sociopathic tendencies. She's lawful not because of affirmative beliefs, but due to certain weaknesses.

To follow on, would someone know that Slenk is using a Hex? I'm thinking fortune and misfortune really wouldn't be obvious. Evil eye might.

Jerax, I don’t see you as metagaming at all. I think Lily is just asking a question to get us all on the same page.

I’ll confess I was going to wave away the concern about monsters but Slenk’s question really highlights Lily’s point about kind of a slippery slope of consequences. And it wouldn’t be on the FAQ if there weren’t a lot of confusion about it in the community, so I think it’s understandable we need to discuss it.

I’ll give it a little more thought. I mean, there is part of me that now thinks the level cost of those meta magic feats is insanely high if there is still a visible effect to spells like charm or suggestion, but I’ll chew on it.

Jerax, I don’t see you as metagaming at all. I think Lily is just asking a question to get us all on the same page.

I’ll confess I was going to wave away the concern about monsters but Slenk’s question really highlights Lily’s point about kind of a slippery slope of consequences. And it wouldn’t be on the FAQ if there weren’t a lot of confusion about it in the community, so I think it’s understandable we need to discuss it.

I’ll give it a little more thought. I mean, there is part of me that now thinks the level cost of those meta magic feats is insanely high if there is still a visible effect to spells like charm or suggestion, but I’ll chew on it.

Hexes are even a step further down the slope as they are supernatural rather than spell-like. I've never tried to play an unobtrusive witch like Slenk before so this hadn't occurred to me.

Some rules lawyer opinion on the matter.

The short answer is if the hex says you do something that's the clue. Otherwise you're just staring for about 3 seconds.

Ameliya, as this is going to most directly pertain to your character, I'd welcome your thoughts on the manifestations of a psychic's spells and spell-like abilities.

At the moment, I'm inclined to just go with the letter of the FAQ in that spell-like abilities have some sort of manifestation, even if silent and still. A lot harder to stop you from casting them (blindfolds and bindings won't matter) but still evidence who is doing what.

Just wanted to say I'm not trying to put Alixis on the spot, but Slenk would not publicly make anything like a policy statement. Since Alixis is an attorney and an agent of the Archbaron it seems like a good way to set the rules we plan to operate in.

My view is that we are free to interpret and enforce the Archbaron's mandates as we see fit, unless or until we receive more specific instructions. I think we can and should tell people how we plan to enforce it.

Likewise, we may need to look into who is running the Town Guard and getting them prepared to help enforce things. Unless we are the brute squad that will be doing that. In which case we should make that clear.

Likewise we should likely head to the Notory as they are mentioned. Perhaps see about how permissions with Seals of House Fex are to be distributed from our patron as well.

I'm pretty sure we're the town guard now that the deputies have been released from duty.

Is there a town guard, or were the deputies the only sort of law enforcement? If that's the case, we might want to hire some goons.

"An escort by the town guard? As I understand it, the sheriff and her deputies have all been sacked. Who is going to escort them?"

The locals seem to think that's the case.

Then I’d suggest our next order of business is to find some lackeys!

Ameliya, as this is going to most directly pertain to your character, I'd welcome your thoughts on the manifestations of a psychic's spells and spell-like abilities.

At the moment, I'm inclined to just go with the letter of the FAQ in that spell-like abilities have some sort of manifestation, even if silent and still. A lot harder to stop you from casting them (blindfolds and bindings won't matter) but still evidence who is doing what.

I think that's a fair ruling that even psychics spells are noticeable despite them technically not having showy spell components. Of course, so far, you've been pretty lenient on that since Ameliya did get away with casting Detect Magic in the middle of a huddled with no one noticing. Maybe more subtle spells like Detect Magic, while still noticeable, require a relatively low Perception or Spellcraft check for someone to realize that magic is afoot?

Of course, if that's a bit much, I'm totally willing to just accept that Ameliya's spells are indeed notable regardless of how low-key they are. After all, Ultimate Intrigue has a bunch of feats that help with that anyway, so its not that big of a deal.

GM: Is there any sort of city guard outside the gatekeepers and sheriff who quit?

Nope.

GM Snowheart wrote:

Ameliya, as this is going to most directly pertain to your character, I'd welcome your thoughts on the manifestations of a psychic's spells and spell-like abilities.

At the moment, I'm inclined to just go with the letter of the FAQ in that spell-like abilities have some sort of manifestation, even if silent and still. A lot harder to stop you from casting them (blindfolds and bindings won't matter) but still evidence who is doing what.

I think that's a fair ruling that even psychics spells are noticeable despite them technically not having showy spell components. Of course, so far, you've been pretty lenient on that since Ameliya did get away with casting Detect Magic in the middle of a huddled with no one noticing. Maybe more subtle spells like Detect Magic, while still noticeable, require a relatively low Perception or Spellcraft check for someone to realize that magic is afoot?

Of course, if that's a bit much, I'm totally willing to just accept that Ameliya's spells are indeed notable regardless of how low-key they are. After all, Ultimate Intrigue has a bunch of feats that help with that anyway, so its not that big of a deal.

I was honestly on the side that psychic spells don't have obvious manifestations until Lily pointed out that FAQ. I confess I still find the idea that a "charm person" spell or the like, psychic or otherwise, must involve magical fairy sparkles or something that makes it obvious a spell was cast to be silly, but it is what it is, and I see the logic underpinning it.

So, we'll just assume there is some sort of manifestation, but that doesn't mean you can't come up with some creative means to conceal who is casting the spell or whatnot (e.g., invisibility, distractions, etc.).

FYI - It seems like the Windows installation on my desktop is corrupted or there is a problem with the SSD that it (and a lot of my personal files) were on. Trying to copy everything now to a backup drive, reformat the SSD and reinstall windows, but currently limited to my work laptop and iPhone, so posting may be a little difficult. Hopefully I'll be back up to 100% by the end of today.

Good luck!