Bell Curve Adventures (Inactive)

Game Master djdust

I've been interested in trying out the Bell Curve Rolls Variant for some time now. I've read through many forum debates on the subject, so I am aware of both sides of the argument. Thing is, I'm more interested in trying it out for myself just to see how it feels. I need that subjective experience, yo!

So, my idea is to run a game. Not necessarily a campaign, because story does not necessarily matter. Role-play is welcome, because that's fun too!

The game will consist of 6 x 5 Room Dungeon adventures, one each at levels 1, 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20. That way, we can get a feel of how these variant rules effect the game at different power levels.

I'm looking for 4-6 players who, like me, have not played with this variant before, and are interested in trying it out without having to commit to a full campaign. Right now I'm simply looking for interest. If interest is low, we can go ahead and build PCs and jump right in. If interest is high, then we'll have to move into some sort of selection process maybe.

So, tossing this out into the ether. Is there anybody out there?

Yeah, I'm curious to see how it goes. It sounds like an interesting idea and I'd love to try it out in action.

This is interesting

Bumpity bump bump

This sounds neat. I'd love to give it a shot if there's enough interest.

I'm interested.

I've wanted to try this with my RL group, but several of them are kind of resistant to change. Count me in!

Cool, that's 5. My favorite party size.

I'll get a discussion thread going tomorrow and send invites through PM.

Well, always my luck. A day late and a dollar short. If any room opens up, I would like to give it a try.

You’re in luck! I too am running a day late. A PM is on its way.

Hello forumites!

We have a player gone MIA, and we are looking for a replacement. Please submit a PC for application.

Build Rules:

This will be a relaxed, no pressure kinda game. A series of 5 Room Dungeons at levels 1, 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20. A purely experimental game just to give this rules variant a try. Because of that, let’s keep the build rules simple:

-Core Races and Core Classes only.
-Paizo products only for class options, archetypes, feats, spells, equipment, etc.
-no multiclassing or PRC’s, this isn’t the place to try out your super cheese build, just keep it simple.
-20 pt buy
-2 Traits. No campaign specific traits/feats.
-Avg starting wealth by class. Wealth by lvl for lvls 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20
Other than that, standard stuff.

-One houserule. Most important. The whole point of us being here. We are using the Bell Curve Rolls Variant from 3.5. Read it, learn it, love it.

The party is currently at level 4 and is wiping the floor with an owlbear. The current PCs are a human wizard with small cat, half-orc bard, human ranger with big cat, dwarf paladin, and human cleric. The PC being replaced is a half-elf monk.

I have a build noodling in my head that is a Monk w/ 2 non-overlapping archetypes...Kata Master & Master of Many Styles. It is a ridiculously MAD build that in the long run means that people just always miss attack rolls for him because his AC his high and he can parry.

It is a little bit cheesy, not super cheese I don't think though.

If you are okay with the basic concept then I will stat him up. I might be able to make the build work on 20point buy. 15 would be a hard no. :)

If you join I may have to suddenly take up basket weaving. ;)

I did not understand the reference until I went and looked at your aliases...I thought I was crimping on a mechanic of yours...but apparently it is just that I cannot escape that darn Bariaur.

To be fair I'm only the second craziest character in the group.

Wiping the floor? I guess the grease underneath it will be gone in under 4 minutes...
Also, the craziest character still doesn't know the sex of his cat xD

@Nairb the Grey: he did list 20pt buy in the post :3

So I had some time, I went ahead and stated up the character assuming the idea of the build is going to be approved.

I present Matra Bamdara. The idea of the character is to convince people to attack him and waste their actions there. Standing around he has an AC of 21. If you attack him he can 5' step to add Charisma to his AC, which bumps it to 23. If that isn't working he can fight defensively at a -2 penalty to add 3 more points of AC going to 26. If that still doesn't work he can total defense to get 3 more points of AC to get to 29.

And for the boss fights he will drink a potion of mage armor for 3 more AC for an hour...that will take him to 32.

If the monsters ignore me I will use my antagonize feat to encourage them to come and play.

Please look over and let me know what you think. If it is too cheesy I will look for a different build to get excited about.

He is built to be annoying to the monsters...not a huge threat, but if they pay attention to him then the big DPS characters can lay down hurt. If they ignore him he can slowly papercut them to death.

Approved! A high AC should be effective considering everyone is rolling averages more often than not. But, every specialized build can be turned into a weakness against an intelligent foe.

I’m almost ready to say, “first come, first served” but let’s give it a day to see if there’s any more interest.

Matra is the new monk. You can hop into the game after this combat is concluded.

So... not interested in joining, but how are the bell curve fights playing out?

So far, very well for all the PCs
...well, except for one... spiders almost became his new favored enemy xD

IMO normal challenges are probably a CR or two too low with 3d6. This is probably because normal encounters are designed to be less challenging due to the extreme swinginess of a d20 roll. 3d6 practically eliminates that problem.

It shows that less randomness favors the PCs, which is something that I've always believed but never personally rigorously tested or showed.

It does value up support classes at least at low levels because a +1 bonus means a lot more when your expected roll is a 10 or 11.

I went into this game with two main expectations:

-Attacks will succeed most of the time, assuming you had a decent chance to begin with. Pathfinder expects the players will win most fights (it wouldn't be much fun otherwise!), so adding more randomness favors the monsters-- and adding less favors the players. The 3d6 system is a lot less random.

-Bonuses and penalties will matter more. Since 3d6 will usually be ~11, even a +1 can make a big difference.

So far, both of those are true. I have to admit I'm not very impressed with the revamped Bit of Luck domain power (roll 4d6 and drop the lowest, instead of rerolling, since rerolling 3d6 is less likely to be much higher). But when you think about it, it makes sense: 4d6 minus the lowest isn't THAT much higher, whereas a d20 reroll can make a substantial difference.

Overall, it definitely changes the game.

Thanks guys!

So far, both of those are true. I have to admit I'm not very impressed with the revamped Bit of Luck domain power (roll 4d6 and drop the lowest, instead of rerolling, since rerolling 3d6 is less likely to be much higher). But when you think about it, it makes sense: 4d6 minus the lowest isn't THAT much higher, whereas a d20 reroll can make a substantial difference.

After some back of the napkin math I came up with and equivalent bonus shy of +2 vs just over +3 with d20 reroll. So that tracks. Prolly did my numbers wrong since its been over 15 years since I learned that stuff.

This site might be helpful for figuring out probabilities.

Average result of a straight d20 is 10.5, but since you are only rolling 1 die the probability of getting any result is 1/20. Very Random.

Average result of a straight 3d6 roll is 10.5, but since you are rolling 3 dice the probability becomes a bell curve, skued to the center...much less random.

Basics!

Now Advantage.

Average result of rolling 2d20 and taking the higher result is 13.825. Since you are rolling 2 dice here there will be more of a bell curve here, with the probability being higher in the center (10.5).

Average result of rolling 4d6 and taking the three highest is 12.2446.

The different curves that you get on the different expressions are pretty cool.

Heheh, good feedback here. Should have gone with an advanced owlbear.

Those are pretty close to the numbers I was coming up with. So not bad for back of napkin figuring.

+3.325 (on average) for a pair of (fair) d20s, to be precise :3

edit: lol, this is what I get for not refreshing the page after coming back to my computer...

Spiders........