Yeah, he's having to learn that maybe that grumpy old bastard Captain Wisslo was right to be so tough on him. Learning the hard way apparently.
Rale, if you want to overcome their DR you can shield bash. Like you said, you're relying on your DR anyway, not your "dodginess".
I agree with DM Jelani about Bless with the armor as DR rules. Might I suggest replacing it tomorrow with magic stone? Magic stone kicks skeleton/zombie ass.
There will definitely be some changes made to my combat decisions. I have never played these rules, but they seem more realistic to me, so I am looking forward to become more fluent in them.
I'm not sure what penalty I get for using the pole hammer.I am going to probably shield bash for now. Later, I will always carry a bludgeoner. Ironically, this happened to me when I first started playing with a fighter and a lonsword. Three skeletons took forever.
I think things are going about as well as they would on this adventure. Tyr is so green he is about to sprout roots and leaves the more experienced members of the party were expecting a joke adventure. If we survive this first real fight then we will definately be a wiser bunch.
I wasn't expecting the skeletons to be this tough when I went in and to be honest right now I am worried that six might be too many for us to handle.
so I am unconsious until some one does some healing or I get enough rest?
Yeah Tyr, that's correct. Since negative energy damage goes directly to the wounds of living creatures I'm going to rule that positive energy damage goes directly to the wounds of undead. This means that your channeling is a very effective weapon right now Rale.
You may just want to start blowing all your channels, especially since you're planning on resting after this. #4 is almost down, just keep focusing fire. Long as I don't roll a bunch more crits I think you guys will be okay.
we're dead! we're all dead! we're still alive but we're dead. lol
we're dead! we're all dead! we're still alive but we're dead. lol
Is that from the Incredibles?
what I like that movie.
It's a good movie.
Will post action tonight.
If rale channels does that mean will those of us that are injure be healed or will it only damage the undead? Channeling is an area affect type of thing right?
My feat was a bad choice too. Thought that Dodge would give me an advantage with defense being low, but seems like Improved Initiative would have been a better choice. Lesson learned.
Rale is a bit of a training wheel.
Free action=drop scimitar
move action=draw holy symbol
Standard=channel positive energy / harm undead heal ally.
I don't believe that I can do both simultaneously. DM?
No, it's one or the other each time you channel.
I have Rebuke Death though Tyr. Can a heal restore full wound points?
blast the skeletons first! but blast them harder than just did.
DM Jelani, just musing here on the rules, not trying to complain but you seem open to discuss this stuff so I'd thought I'd ask.
1) Since channeling heals vigor normally but wounds differently (each channel heals one wound per channel die, so with Rale's 1d6 channeling he can heal 1d6 vigor to all or 1 wound to all), does the same apply to negative/positive energy damage? I saw your comment that the channeling hits the skellies' wounds, but does it hit them for one wound or 1d6? I would assume only one, which I think this could be balanced out by my question #2...
2) In regular pathfinder rules, undead are destroyed when they reach zero HP. With vigor/wound rules it seems that the wounds are basically replacing the con mod HP and the HP when you hit negatives and are dying. I agree that undead should get some wounds based on Cha, but would you consider giving them only Cha score in wounds instead of twice Cha score (like how we get twice Con score) to mitigate the fact that undead in normal rules don't get negative HP? Just a thought.
I'll just keep shield-bashing them until they are dead.
I'm allowing it to do 1d6 damage, since the negative energy damage won't be reduced should it ever come up.
This is my first real fight with the vigor/wound rules and I will be making changes after it. The skeletons in the mod have 4 HP, this fight would have been long over were we using standard rules. It's making it waaaaay more difficult for you guys. I apologize if it's not fun :/
I think I will just take a vote, should we switch to normal HP rules or stick with this and try to work out the kinks? It won't happen until after this fight, but I want to get your opinions.
Would we also go to normal AC? That would be a big factor in my vote.
how exactly are you calculating the vigor and wounds of the creatures that don't have con points? what are the wounds and vigor of the skeletons we are currently fighting?
Vigor 5 (1d8) and wounds 20 (10 charisma). We would keep armor as DR, and go to normal HP rules Rale.
maybe instead of doubling the charisma for the wounds you could just double the hit points given in the module and do the vigor points like you have done. Armor as DR still. If we had started with the HP rules most of the players would have had 8 to 12 hitpoints a distinct advantage over the skeletons. with the wounds most of the players have 20 wounds or more (double constitution) the skeletons currently have the same number of wounds as the players. I don't think we can beat them like this.
I'm okay with going to HP and keeping armor as DR. Can I change my feafrom Dodge to Improved Initiative? Last favor, I promise.
* feat
Saw the Hobbit last night and remember the statement from the E6 rules where he said that Gandalf was a level 5 magic user. It reminded me that I keep seeing these builds on the boards saturated with potent magic items making them god-like . I think that I wouldn't enjoy those games as much personally because of the over-availability of magic items. E6 seems more realistic to me.
When we started this, I was thinking that our characters would do pretty well, but now I see a bit of the problem. We should have been one shotting these skeletons, but now we are overwhelmed by damage and numbers. At higher levels, I could see this becoming a better system so critical hits and negative energy become really scary, but we are never getting there so I don't see the point in staying with it until it pans out.
I'm all for keeping armor as DR and going for regular HP.
Okay, after this battle switch to normal HP rules and Armor as DR it is. Don't worry Tyr, I'm not gonna let the first real fight be a TPK, even if I have to fudge a little.
Theoretically, would it have been possible to have Rale and Bruden grab the rope and rush the skeletons while Tyr comes behind us and smashes them without a teamwork feat?
Tripping them?
No. Rale and Bruden could make trip attempts on the skeletons but without improved trip they face AOOs and potentially dropping their weapons.
Your best bet in the future (tactics wise) is to find a choke point if possible and then stick Rale in it. Set Burden and Tyr behind him with their reach weapons and have them use Rale as a shield.
I am unconsious though. bleeding on the floor. Am I having nice dreams? do people dream when they are unconsious?
Now you're bleeding on the grass. Don't worry, it's nearly over I think.
That is what I wanted to do here. Albeit after the fact. I also think that a little stealthy scouting would be good. Being noobs, our characters did exactly what they are most likely to do, except for Malzuket. He seems to be more experienced.
Also, since we are switching back to HP, won't we be healed in the morning with full hit points?
If I channel again, would that kill them and if yes, would you allow me to use my hero point to have the extra channel?
Malzuket, wouldn't it be better to finish them off and then barricade the door and heal Tyr?
We had no reason to expect undead. The hrrpph older members of the party were expecting a gag and Tyr thought he was invincible. Tyr will be more cautious in the future. I should have used my hero point on the role that rendered me unconsious but didn't even think about it.
I'd say better to save the hero points until you get two. Then you can cheat death in case you die. Up to you, but I've had players need to use it before.
Rale, I'll have to decide about the HP. Normally you heal 1 HP per character level for resting eight hours. I'll probably add up the damage you've taken, divide it in two and that how far down you'll be before resting. If you want to spend a hero point to get an additional channel I'll allow it.
I was expecting undead, as it is always a concern when attending a crypt. That's why I brought a silvered mace. The problem is that with the wounds and vigor rules, instead of one shot kills with 4 hp skeletons, I haven't taken any out at all after 4 rounds. That and our cleric couldn't dust them with two channels, when normally the first one would have taken care of at least 4 of them.
It's okay if some of the group is unprepared for some things. But mostly, it is the new rule that is hurting us here.
Agreed, that's why I'm trashing it. Realism is cool, but not when it makes the game too hard and take forever.
I couldn't see how I could afford anything silvered, although now I regret not getting a morningstar. I thought that grabbing this much armor would be helpful with DR. Oh well.
I should have grabbed the heavier armor too! I think the wounds and vigor would have worked if the numbers had been kept down. If the HP had been doubled for the wounds my first attacks would have destroyed one of the skeletons at least and done some heavy damage to others.
Yeah, if we were playing normal rules Tyr would have killed three or four of them before any of the rest of you even acted. Which is also lame in my opinion. A seventeen year old whose never been in a serious fight is not going to take down several undead monsters in less than two seconds or whatever. I was hoping for some middle ground here, but I guess the rules don't really allow for that.
Meh, you could always just give them more HP. I welcome challenging encounters and won't begrudge you any beefing up encounters if the point is to challenge us (which I think is way more fun than us mudstomping everything). Increase HP, give monsters the advanced template or whatever, whatever is easiest to do to get to the level of difficulty you want (don't want to put any extra work on you, which is why I think the HP boost is the easiest solution). I'm certainly not going to gripe about XP or anything, and I don't think any of the other guys would either.
Isn't this a modified version of an old-school adventure anyway? Bring on the danger ;-)
FWIW, I agree with your decision to revert back to regular HP rules. E6 rules are a big enough change and throw in the armor as DR rules and we've got enough stuff to practice. Good call.
I am cool with increasing the badies HP. I agree it would have been lame to have Tyr crush a bunch of skeletons in the first round. One I could see happening as a fluke but not three or four.
I will post tonight. For some reason I couldn't access website last night.ii
Anyone else have trouble accessing the website last night and early today?
Yeah it was down.