Thanks for the feedback and link! Most interesting.
I'll have an updated draft of the backstory, most likely expanded and refocused on the Franks, up sometime tomorrow.
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This Episode is quite informative as well. Fyi, probably won't have any horse sex in my game (for those who watched the previous Episode). :P
I just noticed this campaign and it looks very interesting. For a while now I have wondered how a 'real world' campaign might work. While dark age Saxony isn't my strength knowledge wise, I will try to put a character together by the end of the week. A couple of questions: given that we'll be chieftans more or less, I presume you would prefer male characters? Also, given that we are chiefs, do you see us as being rivals or more working together against a common enemy?
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Here's the characters I'm seeing so far, let me know if I missed you.
Eccard - Knife Master 2 (Sneaky Thief Guy)
Ruhas - Emissary 2 (Horse Archer)
Ealdfric Se Undeádlíc - Invulnerable Rager 2 (Just won't die)
Ordric Ormaring - Skirmisher 2 (Hunter, scout)
Odalric - Barbarian 2 (Charming warrior)
Isegrim - Fighter 2 (Dark warrior)
Like I said recruitment is open until Friday. I'd like an alias that includes a complete stat block and your backstory by then.
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I just noticed this campaign and it looks very interesting. For a while now I have wondered how a 'real world' campaign might work. While dark age Saxony isn't my strength knowledge wise, I will try to put a character together by the end of the week. A couple of questions: given that we'll be chieftans more or less, I presume you would prefer male characters? Also, given that we are chiefs, do you see us as being rivals or more working together against a common enemy?
Female characters are fine. It definitely wasn't common, but women could hold tribal level power in Saxon society (from my limited understanding). Especially women trained in magic or herbcraft. Since your characters are such extraordinary individuals it doesn't really matter. You're a 25 point build, most of the NPCs are 0 or 5 point builds. It's fine to be an exception to the rule, just tell me a story that makes it make sense and I'll be happy.
You will be working together. You are all sworn to the Althing (king) Andhun. He'll serve as a benefactor for the start of the campaign, long term it will be largely player guided. I'd prefer no PVP, but if that's where the story takes us and it's not just belligerence I might allow it.
Here is Berengar of the Bernhild tribe. Fluff only. Crunch to be completed.
Berengar is the Saxon Greve of the Bernhild tribe, a group of Bear-worshipers who live in the western portion of Saxon territory. When he was born, his father, Berndric, slew a bear and dripped the blood from the heart of the beast onto Berengar that he may know from the moment of his birth, the power of the Bear. Berengar grew up as the favored son of the tribe, learning not only arms and fighting, but also leadership and the soul of the tribe. He learned to study the bear and respect it. While bears are mighty warriors with the strength of 10 men, they are also caring mothers and peaceful neighbors. It was when provoked and threatened that bears grew most dangerous. Thus when the Bernhilds were attacked by a Frankish raid and Berndric mortally wounded, Berengar took command of the Bernhilds and struck back viciously. Now the Bernhilds have tasted Frankish blood and are eager for more. But while his tribe is hungry for Frankish blood, Berengar knows the Franks grow more powerful everyday and without help from the other Saxons, many more Bernhilds will die.
The Bernhilds revere the bear as a sign of strength and power and each Greve shows his might by fighting and killing a bear when he takes control of the tribe. As is custom, Berengar’s bear has become a part of his arsenal with the hide becoming armor, the claws fitted as weapons, and some of the teeth being implanted into the Berengar’s own mouth. He also wields his father’s longspear, called the Bear’s Tooth and his own Seax, called Berenoc. Berengar is a powerful warrior, but also a patient leader. He saw his father fall to the Frankish blades and he fears for his tribe. He believes sheer strength cannot save them, but wisdom and guile are also needed.
Alias is up with Crunch and backstory
So when/how would our characters have interacted? Are there regular meetings with the king? Would we possibly have had other interactions? I was just thinking it might help lay out some of the extra background and make some interesting plot hooks
On another note, would it be helpful if we described/created the "character", so to speak, of our tribes? Kind of running with berengar's idea of giving a theme to our people?
With respect to my own pc, I think I might try and use my original hostage idea to justify isegrim's enmity for the franks - help flesh out that area of his background.
Crunch is up for Berengar.
Plus a minor addition to the background. Berengar comes from the Germanic words for Bear + spear, which is what his father's longspear is called. Berengar was named after his father's spear.
I have some more questions
How do you handle gear, especially armor? You said it was given, but in that case how does one decide what it will be?
Another, smaller question: Would you be ok with lumping Craft (Fletcher) and Craft (Bowyer) together into one skill? They're mighty limited when separated.
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So when/how would our characters have interacted? Are there regular meetings with the king? Would we possibly have had other interactions? I was just thinking it might help lay out some of the extra background and make some interesting plot hooks
On another note, would it be helpful if we described/created the "character", so to speak, of our tribes? Kind of running with berengar's idea of giving a theme to our people?
With respect to my own pc, I think I might try and use my original hostage idea to justify isegrim's enmity for the franks - help flesh out that area of his background.
This is the time of the Völkerwanderung. In other words, 50 odd years ago, Attila the Hun came tearing into Europe from Asia, and driving all the Germanic peoples west and south like dominoes. So it's likely that your fathers or grandfathers were the first Saxons to settle in these lands, absorbing smaller tribes etc. The Saxons are a unified group only in language, loyalties are more personal in nature. Your particular tribes (read extended families) are loyal to Aldhun. So yeah, you would know each other from Thing/Folkmoots (gatherings of all free men) held at the equinoxes and soltices and your fathers or yourselves probably 'elected' Aldhun at one of them maybe five years ago. In that time he's been consolidating all the local tribes.
My intent is for you players to be the youngest, most unproven Gräfe in the group, so your first task will be earning the respect of the older Gräfe and the Althing. Your fathers may have had great names, but you do not yet.
Aldhun has ~15 chieftains sworn to him at this time, you are the least amongst that number. We can work out specifics in the discussion thread once I make my selections. Hope that helps.
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I have some more questions
How do you handle gear, especially armor? You said it was given, but in that case how does one decide what it will be?
Another, smaller question: Would you be ok with lumping Craft (Fletcher) and Craft (Bowyer) together into one skill? They're mighty limited when separated.
You can choose either Chain Shirt or Chainmail as those are the best armors they had availible. If you prefer hide or leather for character reasons that's fine too, they are a lower level of technology.
And yes, Craft (Bows) combining the two is fine.
Ruhas is done crunch wise, just need to copy and expand his background. Only think missing would be an alternate weapon when ranged isn't an option (knife/dagger would probably be enough).
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Okay, I'm finding the need to codify the whole language thing during my preparations. So I'm gonna just use Old English terminology taken from this website because there are a lot of words available. The languages available to players are the same (North, East, West Germanic, Latin, Gaelic, Greek, Slavic, etc.) So instead of Althing and Greve/Gräfe we're going to go with the following:
Dryhten = King/Warlord (there are many words for king, including ring-giver, but this is the title Aldhun claims)
þegn/Thegn = warrior companion of the king, low ranking noble (your title, you will be sworn to follow Aldhun)
Dryht = warband
I'm going to avoid using any more terminology than necessary. I'll put together a small lexicon and put it in the campaign info.
Sounds good. I've updated Ordric to reflect these changes, expanded his background a little bit, and made him a hater of people named Frank. Once I'm done adding to the background, would you like me to repost everything in here, or just leave it in the profile?
Just to clarify the only order allowed for cavalier is Ronin? Just making sure as that's a samurai order.
Just to clarify the only order allowed for cavalier is Ronin? Just making sure as that's a samurai order.
The non-Samurai version simply is called Knight Errant, mechanically it's the same.
Could you clarify with tribes would speak which languages? More specifically, I'm wondering if the Franks and the Saxons speak different dialects (West and North Germanic, respectively)?
Ok, I've got my profile in shape, I think. I went ahead and modified my build/backstory to incorporate the hostage idea; basically, Isegrimm was shipped off to the Franks as part of a temporary ceasefire (another example of his father emphasizing sacrifice for tribal survival). Isegrimm chose to sacrifice his sense of honor to cozy up to the Franks and learn what he could about/from them; upon his return home, he would be able to use that knowledge to help his own people. I added Know: Religion and Geography to Ise's skills to represent his time amongst the Christian Franks.
I kind of glossed over the "ceasefire" element - I can flesh that out if you want. I just realized I had already written a pretty big hunk of text, and didn't want to create too much reading during the submission process.
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@ Odric - Profile is fine.
@ Ashe - Yeah, that was my intent. Just because there were no knightly orders back then for you to belong to, and ronin seemed a good fit for knight-like characters who aren't really knights. If you're looking at another one, I might approve it with some reflavoring.
@ Ruhas - Correct.
@ Princeimrhail - They speak West Germanic (Frankish dialect), the Gallo-Romans who they conquered/absorbed them speak Latin, as would the Frankish nobility.
Basically West/North germanic are the same and mutually intelligible with East Germanic, just different dialects. It's like taking someone from Parliment in London, and putting them in the hood in south central LA. They sound completely different, and use different words, but odds are they could understand each other if they tried. So the Saxons actually speak West Germanic (Saxon) and the Franks speak West germanic (Frankish) but for simplicity's sake I'm just grouping them into West, North and East.
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Ok, I've got my profile in shape, I think. I went ahead and modified my build/backstory to incorporate the hostage idea; basically, Isegrimm was shipped off to the Franks as part of a temporary ceasefire (another example of his father emphasizing sacrifice for tribal survival). Isegrimm chose to sacrifice his sense of honor to cozy up to the Franks and learn what he could about/from them; upon his return home, he would be able to use that knowledge to help his own people. I added Know: Religion and Geography to Ise's skills to represent his time amongst the Christian Franks.
I kind of glossed over the "ceasefire" element - I can flesh that out if you want. I just realized I had already written a pretty big hunk of text, and didn't want to create too much reading during the submission process.
What you have is great. Lets change the time of captivity from 10 years down to 5 or so. Clovis only converted to Catholocism in 496. Some sources say he was basically a Roman, others say he was still very pagan and the conversion was just a political move. I'm gonna portray him as a germanic Dryhten with a strong Arian faith, and roman tactics and administration skills. If you want to know the language of the 'enemy' then Latin is the way. The Catholic church uses Latin for everything. Also keep in mind that with the average lifespan of 25 or so, by age 13 or 14 you were an adult.
Apparently I was also wrong about Saxon contact with Romans. Members of all the Germanic tribes fought as mercenaries in both the Western (before its fall) and Eastern roman armies. However it's unlikely the Romans are going to play a significant role in game.
I submit Beadwof Anson. I would like to do order of the Lion as it seems to fit well with protection of the land and being under the king. Let me know what you think.
How would you feel about a rouge going the route of the minor/major magic talents? If you'd allow it i think i could write up an interesting pagan magic user/ warrior using the Survivalist rogue and eventually Sanctified Rogue archetypes by using those minor and major magic talents(Probably for mage hand and mage armor, or maybe vanish)
I think it'd make a really nice witch/warrior priest kind of feel. Hopeful to hear some feedback( and possible background leads if i get the go ahead)
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@ Ashe/Beadwof - We're using armor as damage reduction, so your AC is wrong. See the first post with character creation guidelines.
Also no barding, that's a much later invention. Hell, they didn't even have saddles and stirrups in Europe until ~700 AD. You're riding a horse with reigns and a blanket on its back, that's about it.
Can't find the Huntmaster feat on d20pfsrd, where is it from?
You should only have one language unless you spend a rank in linguistics. It would be West/North Germanic.
Order of the Lion is fine, except there is no order. You'd be sworn to serve Aldhun as Dryhten, a member of his gedryht.
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@ Redclover - That sounds really cool actually. I'm fine with both archetypes. The spells would need to be non-flashy. I'd want to approve them individually. For example mage armor is more likely to get approval than vanish.
Background wise witches were often kept at the outskirts of society because of their strangeness and hidden knowledge. They were often metal smiths, doctors and priests all rolled into one. That fits well with your survivalist archetype. Perhaps you could simply be a wandering witch throughout the region, and some event occurs which caused you to want to swear loyalty to Aldhun. Maybe a vision, or the Franks murdered your friend/relative, or just plain old lust for power. I'll leave the rest up to you.
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Okay, in preparation for making my selections can I ask everyone who has a complete alias and background to just post with it saying you're ready? Tomorrow night I'll go through and compile a list of everyone who's posted by then, and make my decisions. I've got so many good submissions that it's going to be tough. I've got an evil plan though....hehehehe.
Huntmaster is from the ARG
What is basically says is to pick Horse (my choice), dog, bird or small cat and you get +2 Knowledge (Nature) and Handle Animal with animals of that type and as long as your mount or animal companion is of that type you treat your effective druid level as 1 higher to determine it's abilities.
Cool fixed language was thinking had 12 int for awhile. dropped barding. So I understand that the armor becomes DR but do we have and AC or how does it work? Cool on order of the lion, he will just be a man of the people and his king.
Huntmaster is ARG
You are an expert trainer of horses, hounds, falcons, or
hunting cats.
Prerequisites: Handle Animal 1 rank; either the
animal companion, divine bond (mount), or mount class
feature; human.
Benefit: If you have the animal companion class
feature, pick one of the following types of animal
companions that this feat affects: bird, dog, small cat, or
horse. If you have the divine bond (mount) or mount class
feature, this feat always affects horses.
You gain a +2 bonus on Handle Animal and Knowledge
(nature) checks with creatures of that type of animal.
Furthermore, you are treated as one level higher when
determining the abilities of your animal companion or
mount, as long as it is of the chosen type.
Real Bare bones alias here, but i hope to get a submission in tomorrow for your consideration.
Ordric Ormaring is ready for review. I've expanded the backstory a little bit, as well as double-checking and correcting the character sheet (which wasn't factoring in the trait bonuses, among other things). *crosses fingers for luck* From checking a few maps, it looks like Teutoburg Forest is close enough to where the Franks are, so hopefully that part makes sense, as well as hopefully being close to where you figure Aldhun's holdings are (I probably should have checked that, but ah well). There's something particularly appropriate about ambushing not-quite-Romans in Teutoburg Forest, so I just went with it. If not, I can tweak the particulars to fit in.
Good luck, all!
I am ready
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@ Ordric - Yeah, the Teutoburg forest is pretty close to where you'll be starting. Aldhun's hall is at the site of present day Bremen on the Weser river. I'm setting things there because I used to live in that area and I know it decently well.
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Edit:
Let me try to clear up the armor thing. In this system, a creature no longer has an armor class. Instead it has a Defense score that a foe’s attack roll must meet or exceed to hit the creature. Then any damage is reduced by damage reduction based on the creature’s armor worn and any natural armor bonus the creature has. Furthermore, armor has a chance of reducing all critical hits to normal hits, by replacing the confirmation roll for critical hits with a critical defense check made by the creature threatened by the critical hit.
Defense
In this alternative system, a creature does not have an armor class (AC); it instead has a Defense score. Defense is similar to touch AC, but it also adds the shield bonus (including any enhancement bonus to the shield), and any enhancement bonus to armor.
Defense = 10 + shield bonus + Dexterity modifier + other modifiers (including armor’s enhancement bonus, but not armor bonus or natural armor bonus )
Here's an example. Someone with 14 dex a chain shirt, and a large shield would have an Defense of 14 (+2 dex, +2 shield) and DR 4/Armor (+4 chain shirt). Anything that adds an armor or natural armor bonus to your AC instead increases your DR/Armor. If they found a ring of protection and put that on their Defense would go to 15 (it's a deflection bonus).
As you guys are rocking non-magical steel armor, the only things that can bypass your DR are large weapons and magic weapons (or energy damage).
There's more detail on the page if needed. Bonus points to those who have this already correct in their alias come tomorrow night.
Ealdfric's alias is a good example, except it should be Armor DR: 5/magic or large.
@ Princeimrhail - They speak West Germanic (Frankish dialect), the Gallo-Romans who they conquered/absorbed them speak Latin, as would the Frankish nobility.
Basically West/North germanic are the same and mutually intelligible with East Germanic, just different dialects. It's like taking someone from Parliment in London, and putting them in the hood in south central LA. They sound completely different, and use different words, but odds are they could understand each other if they tried. So the Saxons actually speak West Germanic (Saxon) and the Franks speak West germanic (Frankish) but for simplicity's sake I'm just grouping them into West, North and East.
I see - would it be worth it/necessary then for me to spend a language on developing proficiency with the dialect? I got kind of enamored of Isegrimm's complicated heritage, and I liked the idea of him being able to speak the Frankish dialect with fluency (since he was trying hard, at the time, to fit in). If you'd rather gloss over that, though, that's fine. I've gone ahead and replaced East Germanic with Latin, though, as per your suggestion.
What you have is great. Lets change the time of captivity from 10 years down to 5 or so. Clovis only converted to Catholocism in 496. Some sources say he was basically a Roman, others say he was still very pagan and the conversion was just a political move. I'm gonna portray him as a germanic Dryhten with a strong Arian faith, and roman tactics and administration skills. If you want to know the language of the 'enemy' then Latin is the way. The Catholic church uses Latin for everything. Also keep in mind that with the average lifespan of 25 or so, by age 13 or 14 you were an adult.
Ah, ok. Makes sense. I'll adjust Ise's age down a bit to reflect that.
I've also fixed my DR description as per your recent clarification about large/magic weapons, so... I guess I'm ready to go!
Gotcha. I guess I'll need to figure out another language for my last bonus slot - any suggestions?
Odalric ready for judgment.
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Okay we're gonna use this language chart. Scroll down the page to the diachronic and look at the column that says Migration Period. You can take any of the three main Germanic languages and be understood by all the subgroups within that language, though it will be obvious you're not a native speaker. West Germanic (Primitive/Old Saxon) is 'common' for our purposes.
So if you have a 10 int and no ranks in linguistics you speak West Germanic (Prim. Saxon). You could be understood by a speaker of Old Frankish or Primitive Frisian, but they would be like "Oh, this dude's a Saxon." as soon as you opened your mouth. If you want to spend a language you can take another dialect to sound 'native'.
I all you speak is West Germanic (Primitive Saxon), You would not however be understood by a speaker of North Germanic (Proto-Norse) or East Germanic (Burgundian). So yes, I think I'm contradicting what I said in my previous post. The three germanic languages are only mutually intelligible within their own dialects. I know it's kinda confusing, sorry >_>'
Latin is also in two groups. Classical Latin which is written and noble speech, and Vulgar Latin which is what most people speak.
Ok, I've adjusted Ise's languages (and other skills, consequently) to reflect your update: Took 2 ranks in linguistics (plus base and bonus int languages) to kit Ise out with:
West Germanic (Prim. Sax.)
Old Frankish [fluency]
Classical Latin [fluency]
Vulgar Latin [fluency]
East Germanic [conversant]
If I undertand this correctly, Ise can speak Primitive Saxon, Old Frankish and both kinds of Latin fluently, but he is merely conversant (with an accent) in the broader East Germanic languages (Gothic, Vandalic, and Burgundian) and the other West German dialects (Prim, Frisian and Prim. Anglic)?
Berengar is ready.
One note about the Armor as DR. Invulnerable Rager makes it a tad complicated. Berengar will have DR 4/magic or large from his armor plus 1/- from his archetype. This will act like DR 5 most of the time, but he still retains the DR 1/- even when hit by a magic or large weapon. Just thought I'd point it out now.
And my realization that multiple attacks is less useful in this system because I have to punch through DR each time.
Ruhas is done, except for a little background tweaking
As for the DR issue, I can't wait to get Clustered Shots
...Dammit, why didn't I think of that when I was setting up. Ah well, Shield Slam should still make Axe-and-board reasonably viable, and Favored Enemy will pick up some of the slack (at least against Franks). Hello Power Attack, you will be my new 3rd level feat.
Anyways, updated the character sheet to make sure the AC, DR and so forth are accurate. Realized I only had 1 SP in each skill as well, but everything should be correct now.
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This feat: Shaft and Shield is available to anyone who wants it. This is because the normal PF rules don't let you wield a long spear and shield without heavy penalties, and that was the Germanic people's normal fighting style.
Hrrm. I'll go ahead and take that, replacing the battleaxe. Fits Ordric's being from a poor clan better anyways.
Edit: Bam. Easy enough to switch over.