@Makoto: I'll wait a bit and see where we are, etc.
Well, Tavros just went out foraging/gathering food and rolled a nat 20. So I'm pretty sure we're good on food (he's not big on social interactions, so it's fine if people just want to say they fill him in on any of that stuff later).
Actually! On the front of evolutions... I was curious if I had to fluff them the way the book does.
For example: If I want to make Miyu faster: It wants me to grow more legs. Could I instead take the legs enhancement and it make them stronger rather than making him a nonsensical freak of nature? :p
Correct. Pretty much none of those. I don't really feel comfortable turning an Agathion tied to a Life spirit into an aberration. :P
And yes I do recognize the irony that I'm saying I don't want the group of creatures that normally becomes anthropomorphic angels to look like freaks of nature. :P
I have to think about it, sometimes even tinkering with fluff has undesired consequences. Also, can you link the fishing post for Miyu, I can't see to find it.
Err... what? Most D&D monsters with extra legs are magical beasts or outsiders, with the displacer beast being the only aberration. There's certainly nothing all that "aberrant" about a six-legged animal; dragons have extra legs, etc. Typically in mythology (this portion of which tabletops rarely break from), uneven extra limbs are a sign of corruption, but identical/even/duplicate extra limbs are a source of divinity, usually good in alignment.
Also, you're thinking of nature spirits, I think. Outsiders almost never resemble anything regular, even if they're angelic; and this is what a native creature of the elemental plane of life looks like (yes, apparently ravids are canon in Golarion's planescape as well). Since positive energy is generally the opposite of negative, that survive vast amounts of it aren't regular and healthy (that's the material plain, in the middle); they're typically extra-alive, with wings and glowing and floating and sometimes extra legs and things. (In 3.5, travel through the negative energy plane requires non-outsiders to continually punch themselves in the face or else they get so healthy that they explode).
big javelin quiver of stinky fish added to the tally ;)
Re: Stinky Fish Quiver:
IT'll come in handy for feeding all of our friends when they show up for the ceremony. Along with Prongs's berries and roots haul. :)
Re: Life spirit:
Maybe. I'm cool with upping the evolution aspects, but I intend to focus more on things that help Miyu 'live' than on things that helps him kill. I can see the argument for growing extra limbs and such if they improve upon the form, but it just doesn't speak to my sensibilities to step outside of the realm of 'animal with sentience' when it comes to Agathions. Plus there's so much good art from Okami to work with. :P
Also, Edit: If Maks changes her figment to a hummingbird, what sort of 'skill synergy' should I expect? I'm fully assuming you'll just give a fly bonus as that's one of the few things Hummingbirds are good at (though maybe reflexes?) I found a really neat picture. Pretty bird!
I... don't really know how to respond to a request in character that is normally handled out of character. There are OOC reasons why the tables are the way they are, but there isn't really an in character reason for Maks to tell the Wyvaran no.
My best thought is to just have her suggest that his group will need a diplomat, and we already have several... but that seems weak.
That seems like a decent reason, though—his team will need someone who can talk them out of trouble.
Oh, I had just assumed he was basically just saying he was interested in helping with diplomacy rather than actually joining our table. Or at least, that would be my IC reading of what he was asking. It didn't actually occur to me that he was IC trying to again make his OOC request.
An IC response would depend on what we want to do next, which I feel like may not be something we know just yet/before meeting with Golden Ram. My IC response, if I were you, would probably be to stick with my above assumption while trying to use wording to make it clear you're not talking about meta-gaming table-y stuff. My response would probably be something to the effect of "You're welcome to join me, Nathan, and Xanya in talking to Golden Ram/negotiating" (the implication being an invitation to join a multi-table effort to diplomacize).
On that note, what are current leanings about next course of action? Do people feel like sticking around and negotiating, visiting the humans, wandering off somewhere completely different?
For me, I think Tavros isn't hugely interested in sticking around to help the goatlings. He's pretty...I'm not sure how I want to describe it...simplistic in his mindset maybe? He hasn't really figured out the whole "hero/good" thing, so he doesn't see a point in doing things that don't further the goal of finding Goodwin. Of course, you can definitely spin things to get him to help out, and I'm fine with that kind of manipulation.
Of course, after meeting with Golden Ram, a very clear connection between finding Goodwin and helping the goatlings might emerge, I dunno.
I'm fine leaving as well, but I think Teniel would like to see how the festival pans out. After that, there might not be anything for us in these woods—but we could make a plan where different groups head in different directions.
Heh. Maks has already explained to these guys why helping the goats and such furthers our goals. I don't think it'll work out the way she's hoping, though.
She's also very interested in attending the festival and such. There's a pretty good chance we'll learn something from it. Plus Golden Ram will likely be of aid all on his own for determining a course of action.
I'm not really sure, just yet. Sandbox isn't one of the things I've found myself to be good at as a player. :(
Mlinzi understands the plight of the goatlings, but is kinda cynical that there's anything we can do to help them.
Also, I just remembered that we've got quivers. It would be possible to sacrifice them to make shoes for those who need them. An equivalent garment for Mlinzi would have to be something more like a glove, so it's probably best to wait until we get to a more civilized area to get him some footwear, if that's even necessary, but Lucina at least, and possibly Maks and Teniel should have something to protect her feet for the journey.
I thought we were going to give most of that (and the weapons) back once we returned the goatlings?
Just had my wisdom teeth removed so i'll be on pain meds pretty constantly for the next 3-4 days or so maybe more, it shouldnt effect my posting much but I still thought i should tell all my groups.
Ugh. I remember that way back when. Not fun.
Hopefully that didn't appear too dismissive or biting. It's not my intent. I probably am misplaying his stats slightly in conversation (and he certainly isn't trying to use diplomacy on the turtle), instead simply speaking spirit-to-spirit as it were. He's aware that this thing may be dangerous and is putting himself in front of that danger as he has the least to lose. :)
What sort of concepts did you feel should be beyond him, in this case?
No worries. Being protective is fine, and I assumed that was the primary purpose, and there wasn't anything particularly wrong with the dialogue. It did seem slightly more fancy than I would expect. His Cha is 11 so that is about average. A person of average intellect and charisma could come up with flowery sounding speech in terms of the need to impress someone, but someone a bit slower in terms of intelligence may not grasp all the subtleties and nuances of diplomatic dialogue. Low int and higher charisma would manifest in other forms like simply being cute and fuzzy or perhaps some form of physical comedy ( just examples ). Low int and average charisma is probably more on the lines of 'aww isn't that sweet he is trying to help', but slightly awkward at it or 'that's cute he has such good intentions'. Somewhat modified by luck of a dice roll if one is involved.
It was more a preliminary precaution in case a prolonged dialogue began. I see a lot of room for flexibility, and in any case, if I felt it was overly too much, I would just paraphrase it down a couple steps to fit more accurately. The same applies for a player trying to RP something with say 22 charisma. I sort of try to take a best effort and paraphrase it up a notch assuming the actual character may be more eloquent and impressive. A lot of charisma is also mannerisms, appearance, attention to details, presence, and also circumstantial and luck ( dice roll ).
It's also fun to discuss interpretations of things like this. I also try to go with what may work best for the situation, particularly if the rolls and roleplay support it.
I can understand how you feel, and while I agree one should play their stats, I feel that 'aww it's so cute that he wants to help' as an example, is needlessly pigeonholing. Miyu spoke that way because that's how he speaks. Whether he's talking to a turtle king at the edge of his kingdom or a criminal in a back alley, he's going to take on archaic, flowery speech patterns. It's just how he talks. And people thinking he's being patronizing, or that he's a pompous jerk because of it is bound to happen just as often as someone accepts at face value that he's being respectful, and speaking as he learned to speak. :)
Hmm. I've usually used intelligence to govern vocabulary, at least. I'd just expect Miyu to probably be far closer to an animal in terms of his comfortability with words and his instincts than anyone else in the party right now, though eidolons can definitely get more intelligent as one levels up.
You're also thinking of standard eidolons with their backgrounds.
Now look at unchained. Mine is a young agathion. Agathions come from noble human souls that reach Nirvana. It just doesn't click with me to make him have a bad vocabulary (which is not to say that he has a good one; his word choices are archaic intentionally).
Why do you think that an evolved soul would be more 'bestial' when it comes to speaking?
Well, mostly because he's so animal-based, like a regular agathion.
But also, young *people* have a lower vocabulary—with how intelligence scales with age, Int 7 is your average 12 to 14-year-old. (And with an Int of 7 and few knowledge skills, he's probably lost a lot of the knowledge his soul had when it got to Nirvana)
Alright. I'll push him into the background until he has a high enough int to be played the way I want to play him.
Or have him eager to learn?
I dunno, it's definitely a difference in playstyles... I've played low-int high-cha characters, and I usually represent that as saying big words but not always the *correct* big words (or basically like every character Chris Pratt has ever played)
Low int, high charisma is easy. Remember Sergei?
I just find it odd that he has a better grasp of languages than most characters (he knows all the languages Maks knows), will eventually be able to speak to any animal and anything that can understand a spoken language... and I'm being told his vocabulary seems too high, or that he should be more uncomfortable with talking.
Slightly awkward was actually how I felt I was doing his speech patterns, to be honest.
Hmm... I've always interpreted "knows all the languages you know" as "you're telepathically translating for him," since you can share senses and all that anyway. But I'm also the kind of person who usually uses shorter words/broken grammar for the languages my character doesn't use on a regular basis.
Also, I just reread the summoner's fluff, and there's some interesting bits: "The eidolon forms a link with the summoner, who, forever after, summons an aspect of the same creature" and "The eidolon takes a form shaped by the summoner’s desires." So... apparently you're not summoning a complete creature (which is why it can't die, and why you can pump life into it), but just an aspect of its power and magic, modulated through the lens of your mind into something approximating a real creature. Which is kind of interesting.
It also doesn't die because you aren't on its home plane (as other conjuration: Summoning spells), and I am trying to treat him as a creature that's growing into its final eidolon form.
Speaking of... that would be a pretty neat thing to do for wrath of the righteous; your eidolon becomes an Empyreal Lord.
I'm not sure if that's right. Summoning an Eidolon isn't listed as displaying any school's magical aura, and it interacts with spells as though it were a called creature, not a summoned one (it is treated as Extraplanar but not Summoned unless you cast the Summon Eidolon spell).
Also, that's a flavor difference between new and old summoners; the old summoner's Eidolon is generally not an important planar creature of its own sort as much as something you're creating on the outer planes with your own magic and a less-defined progression/destiny.
Sure. I've gone both ways. To me it's a flavor thing as opposed to a crunch thing. Forming a creature from a nearer plane's energy isn't impossible. In fact, awakening a tree works. :p
Sure. I've gone both ways. To me it's a flavor thing as opposed to a crunch thing. Forming a creature from a nearer plane's energy isn't impossible. In fact, awakening a tree works. :p
I'm not sure if The Giving Tree counts as "works" from a moral perspective, but fair enough.
I don't really follow that analogy.
Also, on another topic, how do you wish to work Realistic Likeness? From my perspective, it simply removes 'human' and 'single form' from the use of my shape change ability. The suggestion says to leave human on, but I feel like that's pretty silly. I still don't gain any of the benefits of alter self aside from the disguise check.
Basically, it says 'any individual', but I know it still uses alter self as it's base.
As I read it an understand it, instead of just the single set human shape you always take when you change, you can now add other humans you have met to that list. So it is slightly expanded from one human to potentially as many as you have met. I agree with the note that it is still a human form. The text of the ability says 'When you are in human form, you can take the shape of a specific individual.' the grammatical implication being specific humans, not just any creature you encountered. To me, the encountered is a bit more vague. Does that mean someone you spot in a crowd from across a busy street, or someone you had at least cursory interaction with? I would say you don't need to interact with them necessarily, but would have to have studied them for even a short time, to get their mannerisms, expressions, gait, and other aspects down particularly if you were trying to imitate them for disguise purposes. If you are just trying to come up with a random throwaway face to use in some situation, then its a little less crucial.
I didn't even look at the fluff text. Silly me.
Also, I'd say it doesn't really matter. Those who know the person already get a bonus. I also don't think I'll be using it to pretend to be someone's friend much, anyways, as opposed to taking on a pleasant appearance (or hide in plain sight) to set minds at ease (or blend with a crowd when things go badly).
So, yeah. It's mostly going to be throwaway faces. :)
I'm marking languages as "ancient" on the language thread, which will be changed if we discover ones that are still valid. How proficient are we in Goatling after a single day (considering that a few of us are superhuman linguistic geniuses)?
Also, I think this table's ready to move on. We already made some suggestions to the goats' leadership, and unlike some of the other groups have no interest in getting pushy with their leader. It seems like after the ceremony, we'll need a way to decide which group goes in which direction.
I don't really know. Maks would want to wait until morning to actually talk with Golden Ram, but I don't see that taking us to many places... and at the same time I'm kind of eager to set off into a different direction from the other groups. Unfortunately, we know that any direction except civilization is fraught with danger, and we're the group most likely to succeed in a civilized area. Unfortunately, there's a high probability everyone is going to be heading for civilization of the people here, now. :(
I don't know. Guess it's wait and see.
Yeah... I'm not really interested in the cluster bomb that is another 30-person shouting fest. But we could still split up some—one group head southwest to look for dwarves, one cross the river, one stay on this side, and that's three right there. Teniel's probably more interested in meeting Elves than humans, and we could potentially try to pass another group and go further into settled lands, mapping and collecting geographic info as we go.
Also, at least one group wants to settle down and build, which it sounds like they were asking about doing at the edge of the forest.
So: ACG errata 2 just came out, and a lot of things changed. Here's a short list of what's relevant to builds at this table:
-Jabbing Style is now really, really good. 1d6 for every hit after the first; at Jabbing Master, it's 2d6 for every hit after the first (possibly scaling to 4d6 per hit depending on wording interpretation).
-Pummeling Style is no longer broken. Effectively, Pummeling Style is Clustered Shots for any unarmed attacks, and Pummeling Charge is unarmed-only Pounce. It's still not *bad*, but it means no more critical abuse.
-Divine Protection stopped being a thing. I can take the new feat Steadfast Personality to get +Cha *just* to Will saves, and just mind-affecting ones, which I think Teniel probably desperately needs... but my Fort saves will no longer be insane at level 5. It'll also still leave Teniel rather lacking in the Will department, though I'm not sure if it's worth trying to sort things around (Crossblooded did have that -4 will penalty)
Awww, but I never got to abuse Pummeling Charge. :-(
I'll look up the errata later.
Heh, yeah, none of us did... most of the ACG characters haven't had time to get to level 8 yet...
Thanks for the info. In looking at the errata this will affect a lot of people's builds, future and current I bet. I'll do a post.
It's actually a small book of changes, and still didn't address everything. :0
Which of us is going to the group meeting?
Anyone who wants to. Maks wanted to meet with Golden Ram separately; the previous night had bothered her when her allies ruined the party with business. :p
Tactics isn't really one for diplomacy type stuff, so he doesn't plan to go.
Also, I'll get an IC post up tonight; this weekend was team bonding, and I was pretty wiped out from that.
Was there dancing? If there wasn't, I'm not sure what sort of team bonding you were doing, but I don't want any part of it.
Speaking alone wouldn't be Lucinas thing but she'd go if everyone wanted her to
Assuming people follow the typical dance role norms, which in my experience most people do, it would have been a pretty poor ratio for dancing. Unless you bring in non-partner dancing, I guess, but I don't know how to do that kind of dancing.
So no dancing. But there was kayaking, tasty food, Resistance, and some other games. *shrugs* I enjoyed it.
Also, I don't know if anybody's reading the main thread's meeting with Golden Ram, but Xanya's entrance was amusing. Or rather, I found Golden Ram's reaction to her entrance amusing.
Good job @CaveToad for NPCs who react to stuff!
Edit: And...I just realized my phone auto-corrected my name in the previous post to "Tactics". :-P