Feral's Giantslayer: #5 Anvil of Fire - Sanctioned Seeker Adventure (Inactive)

Game Master Feral

Feral, just thought of something I want to clear with you first.

Ralph has a nifty ability called spell study, which allows him to cast a spell from the cleric spell list, albeit by sacrificing 2 spell slots and spending 1 full round per spell level. The ability says the spell is cast "as if it were a wizard spell he knew and had prepared".

Since it is cast as if it were a wizard spell (and hence an arcane spell), it is fair game for me to try to put that spell on my ring of spell knowledge, yes?

Spell Sage
Ring of spell knowledge

Extra question. Are you comfortable with reskinning the appearance of two items for no mechanical benefit?

1. I like to think of my Khepresh of Refuge as a more European-styled war crown. (In other words, looking less like this (linked) and more like this (linked).)

2. I like to think of the clawhand shield (linked) as something resembling the similarly-named claw shield from the old Thundercats cartoon, but without the ability to also serve as a scabbard.
It would still be recognised as a shield at a glance, and I would still lose the shield bonus if I use that 'hand' for anything other than spellcasting (per the rules of the shield), and attacking with it would follow exactly the same rules as a shield bash.

In both instances all that I am changing is the cosmetic appearance. The item remains recognisable as what it is and will follow the exact same rules.

Since it is cast as if it were a wizard spell (and hence an arcane spell), it is fair game for me to try to put that spell on my ring of spell knowledge, yes?

I don't think so. Your class feature allows you to spontaneously cast those spells a handful of times per day but those spells still aren't on your class spell list nor do they add those spells to your spell list as an oracle mystery or sorcerer bloodline would.

I like to think of my Khepresh of Refuge as a more European-styled war crown. (In other words, looking less like this (linked) and more like this (linked).)

I'm going to say no to this one as well. I tend to believe that it's important to maintain mechanics with specific cultural ties. If characters are going to take advantage of a feat/item/archetype, they should honor the flavor that comes with those mechanics. I similarly don't allow reflavoring jingasas or shoanti thundercallers.

I like to think of the clawhand shield (linked) as something resembling the similarly-named claw shield (linked) from the old Thundercats cartoon.

This one is fine. Thundercat it up.

This one is fine. Thundercat it up.

Woot! Thanks!

Exiel wrote:

Since it is cast as if it were a wizard spell (and hence an arcane spell), it is fair game for me to try to put that spell on my ring of spell knowledge, yes?

I don't think so. Your class feature allows you to spontaneously cast those spells a handful of times per day but those spells still aren't on your class spell list nor do they add those spells to your spell list as an oracle mystery or sorcerer bloodline would.

Just to clarify, it is Ralph's class feature that allows him to cast those spells as wizard spells a handful of times per day. What the ring of spell knowledge allows me to do is, if I see him casting the spell, roll a spellcraft check to 'teach' it to the ring. The only requirement for teaching the spell to the ring is that it be an arcane spell.

The main part of the ring's ability is that "Arcane spells that do not appear on the wearer’s class list are treated as one level higher for all purposes (storage and casting)", so the spell not being on my class spell list is addressed by the ring's ability (and is actually the point of using the ring instead of buying the cheaper and slotless spell lattice or page of spell knowledge).

The more common use of the ring is for spontaneous arcane casters to grab some spells from other arcane spell lists by observing the spell as it is cast and teaching it to the ring. It just so happens that Ralph has the ability to cast cleric spells as arcane spells a few times per day.

Ah. I misunderstood the question but my position is mostly the same.

I'm fine with Ralph using his class feature to help you change up the ring of spell storing on the fly but the spells he's teaching it still have to fall within the confines of arcane spell lists. He could teach it cure light wounds (bard/witch) and later barkskin (summoner) but no faerie fire since that's not on any arcane spell lists.

Hmm... well it is on the spell list of salamander-blooded sorcerers. They're a new legal bloodline (and not a bad one either) from the Elemental Master's Handbook, and technically the ring allows any spell as long as it is arcane.

If that's still not enough, I guess it's back to the drawing board for how to spend my gold. How long before we kick off?

The wisdom patron also give a witch access to an arcane version of magic vestment. That option is as old as the witch class itself. There is also nothing in the item description that limits the ring to base arcane spell lists.

But that is not the point.

Exiel: Do you notice that even if you learn greater magic vestment, at your caster level you will only increase the shield AC by +1? And for that you spend 25k and a 4th level spell when your highest spells are only 5th level. And you don't even really need more AC.

Feral: If he really wants to put magic vestment into a ring of spell knowledge, I say let him waste his money. SMH.

/end rant

Feral: My own question is much simpler. If I use magic jar to jump into Rhon's body and then cast overland flight while I am in his body, and then I leave his body, will the overland flight spell remain on him?
This link will help you.

Shenanigans to enable getting Magic Vestment in a Ring of Spell Knowledge: No. I'm very close to allowing it mostly because it's ineffective and fairly harmless but I don't want to set you up for failure and frustration with potential future GMs. Ralph has already given other suggestions on cheaper ways to get +1 AC. If you're committed to magic vestment specifically, I'd suggest just getting a Pearl of Power III and asking the party cleric to cast it for you on a daily basis. Bonus points if you also pick up prayer beads of karma for the +4 caster level bump on spells in the morning.

Magic Jar + Personal Spells: This is a tough one that, thankfully, I've never had to rule on before. I've read over the possession chapter and it doesn't provide a ton of guidance on the subject. If there's a specific section you feel relevant, please point it out for me.

But from that chapter, I'd break down spell effects into mental ones and physical ones. Something like barkskin or polymorph are physical effects - you're physically turning your skin bark-like or turning into something new. Spells like fly or overland flight more mental - they bestow on you some form of magical flight that isn't reliant on your physical form. I realize this whole thing is poorly defined but most of these will need to be sorted out on a case by case basis.

In short: Overland flight would not 'stick' to the body you cast it on. It'll move with you. Using polymorph to turn yourself into a bird would stick around.

The break down into mental and physical spell effects was what I thought would help you and the ruling I wanted was whether overland flight was mental or physical. I think that's all my questions for now.

Mmmph... ok, ok. I'm finalising my purchases from my last chronicle sheet now. ="(

here;s my sheet

I'm going to try to get an intro post up tonight but I'd like to get through everyone's character sheets and ITS before we start for real.

Exiel

Waiting on an ITS.

Kaldane

Based on your ITS it looks like Kaldane went through some major retraining at some point. Do you mind breaking that down for me? In the future, it would be a good idea to track retraining costs on your ITS for historical purposes.

Also, please put a header on your profile similar to what the others have with the usual basic info.

Pursnikkitty

Everything looks good. Thanks!

Ralph

Waiting on an ITS.

Rhon

Your ITS is set to private. I submitted a request for access.

Ironhide doesn't stack with the scaling natural armor bonus from your archetype. Neither 'increase' your natural armor bonus and both specifically use the term 'gain a natural armor bonus'. I'm sure some GMs don't care but please swap it out for this module.

You don't have your defensive stance DR listed on your character sheet but I noticed you took increased damage reduction as a stance power. Just so we're on the same page: You're aware the DR from your stance doesn't stack with your DR/adamantine, right?

The same applies to Earl's multiple DRs.

It looks like you've got a jingasa still. Is its crit negation power still intact?

I am now ready.

Player Name: Sean Ting
Play mode: Normal
Character Name: Ralph Cauthorn
PFS#: 96464-1
Faction: The Exchange
Chronicle number: 25
Start XP: 41
Start Fame: 64
Start Prestige: 26
Start Gold: 23334
ITS

My ITS was linked here.

Just as my Master of Trade vanity is in orange font, so all my purchases with that boon are also in orange font.

Thanks for the repost Ralph. Everything looks good.

No problem.

I need to do some shopping before going on the mission. Where is our mission briefing taking place?

@GM: You should now be able to view my ITS. I changed its setting.

I swapped the Ironhide feat for Armor Focus (full plate).

I am aware that my Increased DR does not stack with the DR 7/adamantine. It does however stack with the DR 1/- that I get when I enter my Defensive Stance in the event that I am being beaten on with an adamantine weapon. If you would like I would be happy to add a Defensive Stance version of my character sheet to my profile.

My Jingasa does still have its crit nullifying power intact.

I posted with the basic premise of the module. The briefing is taking place in the Grand Lodge in Absalom.

Thanks Rhon. I'll take a look at your ITS tomorrow. I appreciate you being cooperative with the feat swap.

I retrained my mystery, and all of my revelations.

Oh my PC is Grand Lodge not Sov. Court. I'm going slow too btw.

GM all the info is in my character sheet (linked). There is also a link to it in my profile.

To the bottom of the window, you'll see the tabs for the three sheets.
1. The main sheet has the usual info.
2. The working sheet is for calculating my bonuses (good to refer to if you ever want to know where all my bonuses come from) and also for tracking my resources.
3. The tracking sheet is the third tabs and tracks my xp, fame, prestige, gold and what I've spent them on. I've marked items that I bought at a discount with the Master of Trade vanity with "(MoT)" after the item name.
4.The fourth tab is just random notes and reminders. Don't worry about that one.

@Kaldane: I was hoping for a little more detail. How much prestige did the retraining end up costing you? How much was that in gold?

It's also worth noting that you cannot retrain a mystery freely. Do you have a boon or something that unlocks that as an option?

Oracle: Retrain one revelation. You can instead retrain whether you add all cure spells or all inflict spells to your spell list. See also retraining spells known.

@Exiel: Thanks. From a cursory glance everything on your sheets looks good. I'll take a second deeper look after work.

Feral: I did some asking around on my own about my first question.

FAQ

The rule for metamagicked spells is that you take the less advantageous between actual spell level, which does not change unless heighten is applied, or the spell slot used to cast (which wayang spell hunter and magical lineage reduce). On that basis a lesser metamagic rod is enough for an intensified fireball with magical lineage, though it would not be good enough for a heightened fireball even with magical lineage.

I was aware of that FAQ posting. That's where I got my rule of thumb quote from earlier. I don't think it really answers the question you asked.

The spell counts as the level of the spell slot necessary to cast it.

For example, an empowered burning hands uses a 3rd-level spell slot, counts as a 3rd-level spell for making concentration checks, counts as a 3rd-level spell for a magus's spell recall or a pearl of power.

In general, use the (normal, lower) spell level or the (higher) spell slot level, whichever is more of a disadvantage for the caster. The advantages of the metamagic feat are spelled out in the Benefits section of the feat, and the increased spell slot level is a disadvantage.

Heighten Spell is really the only metamagic feat that makes using a higher-level spell slot an advantage instead of a disadvantage.

The bolded part is what I find to be the strongest argument against you. In general, metamagic is supposed to interact with spell levels in whichever way is more of a disadvantage to the spellcaster. I would say that includes using the spell's full level without the discount from Wayang Spellhunter for purposes of metamagic rods and pearls of power.

Feral That ruling makes my lesser elemental and lesser empower metamagic rods almost useless to me since I bought them for the sole purpose of using them with my metamagicked fireballs. Can I at least sell them for cost to buy the proper more expensive versions I need?

I have no problem with that.

I completely missed that, and so did the GM who signed off on my retraining. Let me look at my other characters then when I get home, so I don't play an illegal character. The mod is 14-16 right?

I believe so.

You could also just correct the illegal changes.

It happened around 6th or 7th level, so I would have to make a ton of changes, including needing different gear. Let me look through my available characters and I'll get one up this evening.

Alright.

But just be aware that, unless you're going to retire him, you'll need to address this issue with Kaldane.

The mod is 14-16 right?

Yes.

I have no problem with that.

Thank you. Ralph will sell his lesser elemental shock, lesser elemental acid and lesser empower metamagic rods for cost and buy a regular empower rod with his master of trade boon. Cannot afford other rods right now.

Ralph will also purchase:
100gp diamond (magic jar focus)
500gp forked metal rod (extra focus for create demiplane)
1650gp scroll of Janni's Jaunt
2pp scroll of greater make whole

Feral I have sent you some questions in a PM.

Mreow? Anything happening?

Sorry, waiting to get things ironed out with Kaldane's replacement.

Ah. Ok, no worries.

Feral I have a spell I want to cast with a 2 hour casting time, and I need a nice quiet place to cast it in.
What are the furnishings inside Stormeye's office? Are they comfortable and is Stormeye still inside his office?

I have also sent you another PM to follow up your answer to my first PM.

Yes, Stormeye's office is comfortable enough for extended spellcasting. He's still in it but he won't mind.

I got your follow up PM. I'm working on a reply.

I am getting my fighter posted. He's level 14 as well. Should have him updated shortly.

I'm still getting his stats ported to his alt, but here is the info you requested:

ITS!

PFS #: 26225-5
Fame: 58
Prestige: 54
XP: 39
Faction: Liberty's Edge
Day Job: Too Busy Being Awesome.

EDIT: got him fully updated.

Thanks Vrog. I'll take a deeper look this evening.

I assume Kargoth went through some heavy retraining as well at some point. Can you get me the details on that?

He didn't. I've only spent 4 prestige for 2 wands.

Sending you a PM.

Sorry about the delay guys. I think we've mostly gotten it sorted.

I’m gathering that you’re in a different time zone from the rest of us Rhon.

In the interest of moving things a bit quicker, when you’re in a toe-to-toe melee like this, feel free to post a couple rounds worth of rolls at a time. If the situation changes drastically when your second set of rolls comes up I’ll just ignore them so you can weigh in.

I am in the Eastern time zone. I just happen to work night shift (7 PM to 7 AM) so my posting gets a little erratic depending on how the night has gone. I will try to keep up and keep your suggestion in mind.

Ah, that's not so bad. I was worried you were in Australia or something.

I am in Australia.... XD

Pursnikitty I used your summon monster 4 for a tiger and used your spiritual ally spell to help Rhon.

Ok thanks sorry I'm swamped at work and can't post at work.

I was going to about to summon a succubus to try to dominate one of the giants, but changed my mind in light of all of you playing goody-two-shoes. Let it never be said that Ralph Cauthorn is not a team-player.

Contrary to appearances, my current form is surprisingly fragile due to its low AC, but it hits hard and has a ridiculous 25ft reach, so I will be standing behind the tanks and hitting over them.