Danna, it is best to not argue. You have not used a hero point since we leveled up, therefore you still have one.
Grigor, that is an awesome MI! We could definitely use it for our own rolls but I am not sure of the cost. While it is typical to have some items of the same name cost more or less than each other, there is a noticeable difference in the power each item possesses. For instance, an amulet of Bear's strength could offer a +2 boon to your score or, for a lot more coin, a +6. So does your Medallion of Reversal use charges? Perhaps a large pizza Medallion of Reversal has one charge and the first born Medallion of Reversal has quite a few more but these don't work until perhaps 5 or 6 years down the line when the child is old enough to be put into a factory of some sort, thus earning your amulet's dice reversal powers.
Unfortunately, considering the abundance of resources already at our GM's fingertips, I doubt he'll allow such an item in our campaign. :(
Like it's Bjelich's fault the bow is missing its target :P
The way our luck is going, even if Akiros switches sides, the Staglord will wipe us all out and only come away with a few scratches; dealt by Akiros.
I'm pretty bummed out at this point :(
Grigor, going to use the hero point Danna claims she doesn't have to channel healing and cast. :P
The Staglord is not aware he is in a game world governed by die rollers and such. Therefore your summoned bow's lack lustre performance must because you lack enough conviction/devotion/piety. ;)
You have a tool available to help you cause Akiros to switch sides... ;)
And there is no pooling/sharing of hero points. They are to be used by the holder of the point only. If that is what you are in fact suggesting.
Man, that horse can read my thoughts!
It has been pointed out that my post could have been more PC had I replaced Gladius' name with another. Say something starting with a K. Like that other guy who may have attacked Akiros with some enthusiasm. :P
Thinking about it, yes I have to agree.
I could blame the time of day (early) and the kids, but that's not true. In truth, I was not thinking of Gladius as just an animal acting with some sort of instinctive training. I was giving him more credit than that. Think Mr. Ed - a cool calculating thinking machine. So my impression of his kicking and biting was that it was more harmful than just doing damage. My mistake. But since it is too late to update the post Gladius will just have to accept this as my apology.
Sorry Gladius, you're a good horse. If we get out this, I'll get you a nice apple.
It did seem odd you called out a not-so-intelligent animal acting on instinct/command and gave a supposedly intelligent half-elf a pass in the blame game. :)
Hey paladin, join us and get redemption... Ha ha, just kidding! Pew pew pew! Critical situation negotiating at its finest! lol :D
"That should pretty much end the appeal". SHOULD is a key word. You never can tell. But your attack definitely did.
That should pretty much end the appeal to Akiros...
That bit of commentary was in blue... as in OOC. You aren't supposed to act on OOC ie meta game information right?
I would point out that Akiros had still not attacked anyone but in self defence...
And Akiros the bigger threat? Saaaayyy whaaaaaattt?!?
This is precisely why you need to track this kind of stuff in your stat lines!
it's all moot anyway, (but you know me, I like to argue about things long past the point), but just to point out the Stag lord has been dropping us all over the place. You don't get to be the BOSS without being pretty good at your job (usually) so I would always imagine he would be the biggest threat.
I second Danna on the threat levels. I can never tell what text I'm supposed to see from the DM and what I'm not, and admit to confusion about the purpose of the DM Only: in his posts. However, I seem to recall a flagrantly-revealed +11 to-hit being bandied about. That high a to-hit used to be what you would encounter from your bob-standard 11HD monster in the good'ol days, which you would fight when you were around 11th level. I guess I'm supposed to be sanguine about it in PF.
Hella good work in the last round, guys. Amazing. I don't know what a DM who has crit'ed me twice this encounter is complaining about... but maybe there's some good reason... Um, I have a question, though, is the electric spell damage really doubled on a critical? I don't know anything about Magus.
Lastly, I'm definitely not claiming superior strategic decision making in this fight, and frankly I've spent most of my time on my ass, and further this is a bit of using the discussion thread for party coordination, but... um.., Danna... I'm just not sure that you're currently engaging in the highest action economy. This campaign seems more gritty realism than your-first-adventure, so I don't think that there's a +4 Mace of Staglord Slaying hidden under the Staglord's bed.... You're speedy, couldn't you at least run up the stairs and lay down some spears from cover on the second floor? Or maybe send your loyal companion charging to his doom, saving us a round of character death? Just sayin... :)
Speaking is a free action Grigor :) We don't need to use the discussion board to strategize; just tell her what you would like to have her do.
As for sitting on one's ass, we've all been there. Bjelich has spent a lot of time 'dying' and being useless. I feel bad for not healing everyone earlier but there is only so many actions available and I didn't want to waste a healing spell when characters might still be in danger - made that mistake a few times already (remember the first time vs. that psychotic kobold?). We just need to remember to take advantage of all the actions available to us: FA,SwA,MA. You can bet that OKOyA is maxing out his actions.
The "DM only" spoilers are meant for my eyes only... ie I do my rolls behind the "screen" so you don't see the +11. Or that I am making perception rolls vs stealth. Or so you do not see the result of your sense motive roll. Etc. This is normally the default for my rolls. The ones that I show usually are to avoid people accusing me of funny business. :/
OR
I don't really have an issue with you knowing an adversary's to hit modifier... as it is representative of his skill with his weapon. Something that your character would be able to observe or gauge. I may not reveal it on the first attack or maybe not at all. Depends on what I think you should know. I do have an issue with revealing saves and what not, to avoid player's using meta game knowledge or min maxing things. "Oh he made his save but it was just a lucky roll as he only has +1 will. Hit him again!" :P
You are not to look at those "DM only" spoilers. If I label a spoiler to "Grigor only" then only Grigor is to look at it.
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+11 = 11 HD monster? Then Grigor at +7 with his longsword must be 7th level? Also, see above about not revealing everything. That +11 is likely not his BAB... but the combination of all sorts of things. Feats, magic, magic items, situational modifiers etc. (And as for your ability to survive these encounters please see your email account. :P )
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I wasn't complaining about the crit... and that is all I will say about it. ;)
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Yes the spell is doubled on the crit. No I am not a big fan of that rule. Much like the Magus class in general. :) And doubly so when coupled with a non-Pathfinder sword that is "too good". :P
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You don't have anything that uses Swift Actions. Or Immediate Actions.
Your use of a SwA to switch the bag from hand to hand is in error.
Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.
Swift Action: A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn.
Immediate Action: An immediate action is very similar to a swift action, but can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn.
My companion has one hit point and what Danna is looking for is maybe a potion or something to bring you up past where one hit will knock you down again. I should have suggested Grigor do the searching... But yes gaining higher ground might be good. Of course I only have a 20' range with the spears.
That is range increments (as in -2 to hit for every 20', or fraction thereof, over the first 20'), not max range*. :)
*max range is 5 range increments for thrown and 10 for projectile weapons. (for example spears can be thrown 100', longbows shot 1000')
yeah I know, but I hate to lessen my chances to hit considering I only have 3 or 4 short spears.
I thought it would be better to leave the duration roll to you - adds to the suspense :)
Sorry about the SW duration thing...not that 5 points would have mattered much :(
Sigh... Ok, I will again justify my characters motivations...Kyras is NOT a melee fighter. In a non meta game, strictly tactical point of view, he is not wanting to go blow for blow with a heavily armed melee fighter. Tactically it makes more sense for him to go in base to base combat with the ranged fighter. The reverse of this is true as well. Kyras has little desire to pull his bow out and exchange blows with the green beret sniper packing his .50cal bow.
Kyras is a nova type character. He is built around the concept of high criticals combined with spells to unleash huge amounts of damage for a very small number of attacks. He is not a melee fighter and not a ranged caster. Frankly now that his spells are gone he is pretty weak. (ie don't count on him bringing down the staglord)
This is of course ignoring what I know to be true which is the Staglord has a higher level then Akiros and has all the benefits. He also probably has a sword of slaying and +10 paper armor of electricity resistance. All things that I think Kyras should not consider.
Frankly Kyras got LUCKY with a critical on his Hero point usage. I honestly expected to put a scratch on Akiros and to be dead.
As for the Magus and issues with his power curve, I am quite happy to change him to a plain fighter. As for the sword consider it a rapier from here on out. It makes it easier for me to track in hero lab and you will be happy that way that it is RAW.
The irony isn't even that I rolled a 3... the irony is that, if you count it out, Grigor had a +11 to-hit bonus. :P
It appears that Kyras' round 24 attack should also have had a +2 flanking bonus, giving him an adjusted roll of 24, rather than 22. Was that still a miss?
It looks like we're in big trouble, here, even after getting largely into a reasonable position... ignoring bad luck, I don't think any of us have much more than about a 20% or 25% chance of hitting this guy, even when he stops taking TD and starts swinging. The tanglefoot bag was awesome -- anyone have any more debuffs? Danna, feel free to work some creative magic somehow..... something collapsing from upstairs on top of him..?.. etc. Or at least drop on down and join the swarm. It looks like we're going to need as many bodies taking attacks each turn as we can, before he can whittle down our numbers. Don't feel like you only do 5 or 6 damage and so your attacks are not relevant -- we're all at about that, we just need to all do it. Unless there's something I'm missing -- something about his alcohol maybe?
I'd suggest we just tackle him, but I think he's stronger than all of us combined....
Final note: I totally don't understand any of the owlbear / Akiros / Mikmek's arrows / Bjelich foreboding stuff. Am I forgetting some major plot points from the campaign? Is there some plausible hypothesis that should reasonably be clear to my char? It just seems like total mystery piled on top of mystery, with a continuous combat keeping me from doing anything to investigate any of it.
I'll retcon the damage... :/
As for the foreboding stuff... it really isn't that mysterious. You guys previously restored a shrine to Erastil and the pond waters miraculously became clear and clean, healing those that drank from it.
If the overgrown statue of Erastil you guys found had been cleaned up, and prayed to, you would have been granted a boon from Erastil.
You readily and unquestioningly accept the positive but are perplexed when the opposite happens? :)
(Hint: Higher powers are actively engaged in the goings on.)
Bjelich should recognize that broken arrows are a sign of Erastil's displeasure. You slew a fallen paladin of Erastil, who was seeking redemption, and you are surprised/confused? :P
Now you have no minions to defend you from us!
GM - Maybe its just me, but how is this boasting? Had Grigor added Nana na-booboo!, then perhaps... :P I just see this as stating a short term fact. Two days from now the fort will be packed with yellow googly-eyed minions once again.
I don't remember the statue being in need of cleaning...and didn't we camp out there? Should have been time enough to tidy up the place. Too late now.Bjelich should recognize that broken arrows are a sign of Erastil's displeasure. You slew a fallen paladin of Erastil, who was seeking redemption, and you are surprised/confused? :P
Ummm, technically it was the magus. How come his arrows didn't break? Why pick on the Kobold? And lets not gloss over the fact Bjelich was trying to help the paladin. This is something he plans to point out in the next few minutes when he meets Erastil for judgement.
The elemental's attack roll was 24 and it missed too. Erastil is unforgiving.... :(
The tanglefoot bag was awesome -- anyone have any more debuffs?
Sure, now you think carrying around a bunch of 'grenades' is a good idea... :P
By the time Danna gets her act together and joins the battle, Staglord will have downed one of us. She needed to be here last round.As for tackling, it may have worked in the past but the time for doing that has past; tangle foot expired. :((
Now you have no minions to defend you from us!
Sounds pretty presumptuous and over-confident to the Staglord. :P
I don't remember the statue being in need of cleaning...and didn't we camp out there? Should have been time enough to tidy up the place. Too late now.
The statue was presented as overgrown and neglected. Not everything is flashing neon sign obvious. :)
Ummm, technically it was the magus. How come his arrows didn't break? Why pick on the Kobold?
Who says Erastil only picked on the kobold? You can spend an action checking your arrows as well if you wish. :)
And lets not gloss over the fact Bjelich was trying to help the paladin. This is something he plans to point out in the next few minutes when he meets Erastil for judgement.
The group's actions reflect upon you my son... and you know what they say about good intentions. ;)
The elemental's attack roll was 24 and it missed too. Erastil is unforgiving.... :(
The elemental's attack was after the grappled condition ended.
Danna has no spells left, no scrolls, no potions, no wands, nothing but short spears at +6 if she is within 20'. If you are relying in her to save your butt you are in big trouble. Striker has 1 hp and +2 so is not hitting even with a crit if I understand correctly. If Kyras is also just a fighter now and no longer a magus we are going to be very spell light com now on. Unless Akiros can be healed then what's done is done and we will have to go from there. Bjelich will probably have to do some sort of begging for forgiveness prayer.
Note that I'm only pointing out my ignorance here, so that what's going on in my mind is made more clear. Presumably this is all backstory that I've just forgotten over the months. But... Akiros? I was only referring to the name as a marker because it showed up on a map. Did Grigor know him? He was a paladin? He was a paladin of Erastil? He was a fallen paladin of Erastil? He was a fallen paladin of Erastil who was seeking redemption? Who knew. :P
Feel free to remind me of things in this discussion forum when you realize a months-old story arc link has come into play and that I'm out to lunch. Perhaps this is a hint that I should go onto Google Docs and find/write a player campaign glossary... :)
It's all good though, no worries. Except for the pointy-headed dude. He's a hassle.
If by "months ago" you are referring to the ongoing IC discussion regarding Akiros that began in round 18? :P
I would politely suggest reading all the posts more carefully. :)
Danna, don't forget that the upper and lower sections of the map are not perfectly aligned. Using the stone wall north of Grigor as reference, and counting squares, you are actually on top of Grigor (AJ12). I would suggest Danna appear at AJ13 instead and use the same roll for her att. GM, does that jive?
Unless you guys are satisfied with the GM coming up with your next actions... Kyras and Grigor can either move together to flank at AM or delay to see where Stagman moves to with readied actions. If you have another, more preferable option, feel free to post...anytime...yup, just type it in...
While a live session would be great, it is flu shot session. This means one of us will likely be busy until... January?? Can't tell for sure until Kyras responds :(
I already adjusted things on my map... I have Danna landing in AJ 13 and completing her move to AL 13 and attacking. I have Striker down in AJ 13.
As for Grigor and Kyras, I am done begging for them to post. I am not DMNPCing half the party on top of DMing the game. They either make the effort or don't. Just let us know so we can quit wasting our time and effort.
Sorry if I've been trouble. I have been reading the posts carefully, but I did go back through them last weekend. You actually had to read quite closely to note that none of the players had their character refer to Akiros by name, and we all only referred to him by name in reference as players. This caught me up a bit, and I got the mistaken impression that some of the characters were interacting with him in a way that indicated that they were twigging into prior knowledge about his story, like maybe one of the many quest arcs that have started from Oleg's. I see now that you can guess at his story from the shreds of evidence, although I will note that some crazy sounding thief guy ranting about something related to stuff that he is wearing but might easily have lifted from someone else is not the same as knowing that it is true. :P
It's irrelevant, but I still submit that the collection of things coming that quickly were too much for me to figure out, and that would go doubly for Grigor, even if he was conscious for all of them. I didn't know / forgot about the connection between bow&arrow and Erastil. Still eager to figure out the mystery of the owlbear. No excuses for Bjelich, of course -- he should be explaining all of this to us like it was formula! ;) A statue is dirty? -- Grigor just thinks all of Erastil's stuff is supposed to be overgrown and dirty, he doesn't know any better about your hick religion. :D
There was one benefit to going back through all of the old posts, though: I was able to verify that in this entire sprawling combat, Grigor has only once rolled a d20 to-hit that was in the double digits, and that was a 10 (and still a miss). This, to be understated, is extremely unlucky. As a blunt comment, there can be no expectation that the party will suvive when the player rolls are this wildly, out-of-all-probability terrible. It's enough for me to investigate.
Dice Testing 1
Dice Testing 2
Note sure if I'm happy that I "passed" the 2, or unhappy that I "wasted" the 20. ;)
Dice Testing 3
Dice Testing 4
Hmm, nine "1"s and nine "20"s. It's already too late; I'll run it through Python and check the statistical properties Sunday or Monday.
As per Grigor's g-mail, in his absence I suggest moving him 15ft to AI12 into flanking (Danna is moving to AK14, right?) and attacking from there...
Re: Heal check, it was worth a shot :)
Just a heads up, I will be out of town from Thursday to Sunday and will have little to no internet or time/resources to post during that time. Game will be on hold after Wednesday night until Monday. Thanks.
Bah, sorry that last post was a critical few hours late. I don't mind such delays, but I apologize to others who would prefer a faster pace.
Take it? Determined? :P
Regarding your Gnomic Ninja/bard? A giant boulder landed on him. He is dead. Sorry. Try again. :)
Besides, the party is already about to have a gnome in it...
Can Kessle miraculously appear with a well aimed back stab? What about Nakpik? Erastil could send one of his servants...a gnome armed with a big canon could magically appear at the gates. I sure there are lots of miraculous ideas an exalted GM could come up with :)
I don't have any problem with not gaining XP for the Staglord. I'm also cool with splitting XP equally with Mikmek. However, should we miraculously survive, I'd argue in favour of gaining XP for all the henchmen and lieutenants we did manage to defeat. We've had a lot of bad luck as it is just getting to this point... :/ Besides, if we are going to continue, TPKs are just going to happen more frequently because we will always be behind in XP.
I am not stooping so low as to save you guys with a NPC... do you REALLY want that?! :P
Don't worry about the XP... it can be made up. I am not going to let you guys fall too far behind the expected level. And besides, you guys are gaining another character... and I won't modify the AP at all likely. Or minimally at worst.
I would very much like to avoid future TPKs. But you guys need to help in that regards too. :P
Lets see how Sunday goes...
We super sucked on this one but we were also EXTREMELY unlucky with the die rolls.
Here is the list of magic items just confirm which ones are identified
potion clear mod x2 Identified !
potion lesser restoration Failed
+1rapier Identified!
+1 longsword Identified !
+1 Composite longbow (+2 Str) Failed
amulet of natural Armor +1 Identified?
Stag Helmet ????
Staglord Leather Identified??
potion of feather fall Failed
potion of expeditious retreat Identified
universal solvent Identified
What does anyone want of the magic items?
Sorry for the delay... but lots of stuff to catch up on.
That is an incomplete list of all the loot of course.
Hope to get things rolling again in the next day or so.
Cheers
Bjelich may claim the potion of lesser restoration. He will also offer to convert Finwik to Erastil's faith by baptism, should he wish :)
you will have to id it first
My laptop committed OS suicide yesterday so I will not be able to update Herolab until next week. I will have to take it to be repaired over the weekend :(
Symptoms include: A blank screen at power on that doesn't change; F2 yields some useless options all telling me the hardware checks out and that I can change the language settings if I like :(
Oh yeah, good luck with the knee thing! Hopefully your knee is not running Windows 8
Talked to Chad and he is really busy and it will take him a couple of days to get things caught up. In the mean time I thought we could start on a couple of things that we need to sort out for the future.
First Chris and Stacy you need to roll spellcraft checks to see if you Id the Items i could not ID.
Next I was given approval to read throughout the module to accumulate the treasure that Chad might have missed in the Staglords keep (minus what is down below) The list of magic items above is accurate with the exception of Kif's belongings (including potions that we will just return) which Chad will double check. The list is in the google docs. I have put the mundane weapons in the Olegs tab for storage. The mundane treasure I liquidated and have added to the kingdom fund. (Provided everyone is ok with that.) I assume the magical items we sell we will split the gold.
Does anyone want to lay claim to any of the items listed above? The Staglord helmet is obviously the most important item in it. I believe that it would be most beneficial to Chris or Matthew. Based on damage and role I would say Matthew should get it. However, if both of you want it we can find some way to decide it. Maybe a roll off.
Personally, there is nothing there that Kyras would be interested in.
Finally, we should start discussing some of the Kingdom issues.
I think the first step we should take is deciding who should be our ruler. (we could role play these discussions out if everyone prefers)
What you need to know. There are numerous leadership roles that would encompass both PC and NPC characters. These include but are not limited to; Ruler, consort, high priest, magister, general, Councilor, marshall, spy master, treasurer and warden. Each role has stats and feats that affect it.
The ruler requires charisma.
So does anyone want to be the ruler? Kyras does want to be the ruler. He does not have the best Charisma but has taken leadership and a focus on diplomacy which will help him in the role. If someone else wants to be the ruler I suggest we make a list and just have a vote?
Does anyone have a particular role they would like to play?
Once we decide the ruler we can start discussing the rest of the kingdom issuees.
We should all breeze through the Ultimate Campaign in the to see what roles are available and which role our characters suits. As Bjelich is the only cleric in the party, his role is pretty much set - High Priest. But I'll skim UCamp just to double check.
Pierre, do you have a list of all the NPCs we can include to fill vacant roles? Any suggestions for who would best fill each role (NPC wise)?
Still waiting on Finwik if he wants to convert to Erastilism. Seems like the best solution to get the most out of the Staghelm. Pending GM approval :)
I don't really care who is ruler, it won't be me. The ruler can also be a figurehead only type of person, completely charismatic but no actual power. I will look at the PRD to see what Danna might be best suited for and if I have any ideas on anyone else. We don't have a huge list of NPC's to choose from yet and the ones we have need more vetting or experience.
I liked your post Mathew, it made me smile and I can see Finwik totally getting on my nerves or perhaps becoming my favourite; it's a total toss up :)
As for magic items I wouldn't mind the amulet of armour but someone else may need it more.
BTW my spellcraft is 0 so I won't bother trying to identify.