Congratulations, man! Excellent work!
Thanks guys!
Got my monster in and now I'm heading into my weekend, so I will update here tomorrow. Again, apologies for the slowness of late.
Was planning to update this morning, but I can't get the part of my internet working that lets me bypass the Great Firewall. Therefore, I cannot access Roll20. I will update ASAP.
Keep in mind in the meantime, I believe Feral also made his perception check.
Hey guys, just wanted to let you excellent know that I'll be away on my annual gaming weekend/cabin trip this weekend. I'll be heading out on Thursday afternoon and won't be back until sometime Monday.
If anything happens while I'm gone, Feral will happily growl menacingly at it, then verbally threaten it, then try and rip its face off with the dagger borrowed from Drosil. =)
...which brings up the next question, is Ashan quit?
Ashan has not been heard from by anyone on the boards in quite some time as far as I know.
He's a busy dude and has disappeared before. I'm not really worried about it. He'll come back or he won't. Either way, I don't really want to bring another person into the mix unless you guys absolutely think it's necessary.
We're already more than 4, which is assumed part size, and you guys have no problem with the difficulty of the combats it seems. In fact I've been buffing them up quite a bit just to make them more than cakewalks. That, and we have a couple years of character development and bonding behind us now. I don't want to risk messing up the dynamic with a new PC.
*nods* I strongly agree. In regards to our party strength, we seem to be doing just fine. As long as we can keep Lesser Restoration and Cure Light Wounds wands, we should be fine :)
Even more so, this party has very strong interconnections between the characters. I think even Ashan was struggling to fit in.
Going to Hong Kong on business until the 20th, I will update after I return.
I'll be away this weekend with no access to internet.
Jelani, you had made an aside about running entire battles from Roll20. Have you thought about coordinating for that at all, or is our disparate time zone issue too much?
Back in my not about to be a father working part time days that might have worked. But I'm way too busy to coordinate that now, sorry :/
I think we cover something like 4 different time zones between us so that would have been a real logistical challenge :)
OK! :) Better to be a dad! :D
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Going to the hospital to have our baby now. I probably will not be posting for the next few days, please stand by.
YAAAAY! It's baby time!
Good Luck!
Okay, home with baby now. Everything went well. I will start posting again when I can.
Yaaaaaaaaaay! Congrats dude!
Congratulations! Give Tibi all our best!
Leaving for Thanksgiving holidays. I'll probably be able to post late in the evenings, but not much more.
Before we hurry onward, I'm sure Anton will want to do something about restoring the shrine.
And there's also the matter of the items here which we still need to ID.
Busy few days for me. But yeah I'll be pitching in shortly with a post about shrines and anti Paladins (which is a name we'll put to the test!)
There is a very cool, unique, thing that can be done at this temple. So, I won't begrudge you guys some time to figure things out.
I have been occasionally wondering if this day would come since we started this game. I refer to the question of whether or not lycanthropy is curable in this world. I would like it to be, but then that would invalidate Dantrian's entire concept. If it's (relatively) common knowledge how to cure the disease (as in Vanilla PF) then Dantrian's whole story of how he and Feral came to be makes no sense. Petros would have been easily able to cure him, or arrange for him to be cured through the Order. Now we have another two PCs affected by the actual mechanical curse rather than a reflavored beneficial version like Dantrian has.
Soo....what do you all think, out of character?
1) Dantrian is not a lycanthrope. Feral is the product of Dantrian's obsession. (Feral) cannot spread lycanthroy; he is not a Shapeshifter; he is not beholden to the cycles of the moon.
2) Dantrian is a lycanthrope and it takes extra super special circumstances to cure him.
3) Dantrian is a Lycanthrope and cannot be cured.
about 2 and 3... is his Lycanthropy Mathus specific (ie, a more virulent form) or is it world specific?
I like 1 best, but it also assumes the knowledge of a cure is not as easy to come by (or Petros would have known it, right?)
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More possible options, some more story-coherent than others (I'll number them as associated with B'yelka's):
1.1: Dantrian's curse is non-lycanthropic. The creature who attacked him was only assuming the form of a werewolf via a spell or power, which explains why Petros wasn't able to cure it via normal methods. The creature who attacked Dantrian was actually Feral's previous host who was dying, and it transmitted Feral into the new host. This makes Feral more of a body-snatcher. A combination of the constant werewolf potions and Dantrian's own belief shapes how Feral manifests, thus his werewolf form. This explains why Dantrian/Feral doesn't have the shapeshifter subtype and silver weapons don't hurt him.
2.1/3.1: Dantrian's curse is lycanthropic, but more primal and ancient and doesn't respond to the normal cure methods. This 'line' is descended from the very first werewolves and makes Feral something of a King among werewolves. This could play further into the Packlord storyline. Maybe the curse can be cured or maybe it can't.
4: Petros knew exactly what he was doing. He kept and incubated Dantrian's curse for other reasons. Those potions he gave Dantrian suppressed the effects, in hopes that Dantrian would be strong enough to control the change later.
4.1: Petros had a foretelling early in his life, showing him the need to do this. Maybe he saw the danger from the Whispering Way and the need for a powerful weapon against them.
4.2: Petros did it for more nefarious or stupidly foolhardy reasons. He wanted to study the lycanthropic curse in a way few ever had.
5: This is how lycanthropy is in the world. It's nearly irreversible. Janos and Drosil will need all of Dantrian's, Feral's, and the packs of the Shudderwood's knowledge to cure them. In the meantime, Dantrian can help them suppress the effects which allows the game to continue. He was able to suppress them for years, so we can deal with the cure later. RP-wise, this will push Drosil and Janos' stories in a different direction.
As an complete aside, I made a Aberrant Bloodrager in a face-to-face Iron Gods game based a bit on Dantrian's story with the backstory from #1 above. My character had alien DNA implanted in him and it's slowly growing to take over his body. His growth in power through the game is not about his skill or experience growing, it's the alien DNA taking over and him slowly losing more and more control. Kudos and thanks to John for inspiring me!
Personally, how I've thought of Dantrian's lycanthropy from the beginning, was that it is indeed curable if caught in time, but that he got to Petros too late for a typical cure (ala vanilla pathfinder) to work. Basically, if you treat the curse with wolfsbane or whatever before the subject first turns, it can be cured. If the victim turns before that though, the curse becomes permanent and unbreakable.
The formula Petros gave Dantrian was experimental and aimed at curing a lycanthrope who had already turned. To this end, it worked to a degree and while Dantrian was prevented from becoming a true lycanthrope (no shapechanger sub-type, no ability to spread it, no longer mechanically tied to the lunar cycle), what he and Feral have become are wholly unique.
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I've also toyed with the idea in my head that Petros' forumula wasn't meant to cure lycanthropy out-right, but to split the curse off from the host to a larger extent, so that the host wouldn't be utterly lost when he or she turned. He just never told Dantrian that.
I also really like Janos' 2.1/3.1 suggestion. I like that a lot.
Aaaand, if Janos and Drosil's lycanthropy is curable, in-game wise that would be huge for Feral. A big part of Feral's motivation right now in securing the wolves and the throne is to establish a place where he belongs and to make a family for himself and for Dantrian. Willfully helping Janos and Drosil, in Feral's weird view two of his closest friends, *leave* that family would be a profoundly sad thing for him to do.
A creature that catches lycanthropy becomes an afflicted lycanthrope, but shows no symptoms (and does not gain any of the template's adjustments or abilities) until the night of the next full moon, when the victim involuntarily assumes animal form and forgets his or her own identity. The character remains in animal form until the next dawn and remembers nothing about the entire episode (or subsequent episodes) unless he makes a DC 20 Will save, in which case he becomes aware of his condition.
A remove disease or heal spell cast by a cleric of 12th level or higher cures the affliction, provided the character receives the spell within 3 days of the infecting lycanthrope's attack. Alternatively, consuming a dose of wolfsbane gives an afflicted lycanthrope a new Fortitude save to recover from lycanthropy.
Well, reading that it seems the only reliable way to cure the disease after the first 3 days is wolfsbane and making the save.
I'm assuming Dantrian wants to remain a "werewolf" and that Janos and Drosil do not want to remain werewolves. Is that true?
I'm pretty comfortable with Drosil not being a werewolf, but if the RNG makes it so that's not an option, he will try to come to terms with it one way or another.
Well, Dantrian doesn't want to be some strange, unique kind of werewolf, no. But I want him to be stuck with Feral. =P
Though when I read the text I thought the wolfsbane also had the within-3-days-of-affliction limitation. /shrug
(also, wolfsbane can get real lethal real fast if you fail a couple of early fort saves)
Well, I don't want anyone stuck a lycnathrope who doesn't want to be, but I also don't mind having lyncanthropes in the party. Anton probably does, because of...alignment (which I hate as a system), but I don't.
I'd be willing to hack the rules to make this come out however each PC wants it to. I think the story will remain good any way it goes. If Drosil and Janos remain infected I will take control of them during full moons and get up to mischief, but other than that I don't think it would affect the game much. And honestly, how hard would it be to tie up two wolves one night out of every thirty for people of your power level?
I don't really want Dantrian/Feral to be some new thing either. If we go with the curse is curable in the normal way, and functions as normal then I would probably lean towards an alternate version of Janos' #4. Petros was experimenting on Dantrian, trying to alter the curse to make it controllable and remove some of the negative effects to use as a force for good. It worked (kinda), and the result is Feral.
PS: We've been going for more than 3 years I just realized! Go us :)!
Yeah, from what I understood, we get a DC 15 Fort save when the bite happens initially, and 3 days to counteract it somehow (remove disease or heal cure it outright, while wolfsbane allows additional Fort saves during that period). If you still have it at that point, you're stuck.
Well, better get searching for a high level cleric then.
Heh, pretty sure it's been more than 3 days of game time since then, so he's stuck with it, regardless. This should be interesting... :-)
I'm honestly not sure if it has been more than three days, but its getting close if not. Kudos to anyone who goes back and checks.
Actually, just checked: we left for the tower right after that attack, so it's just been a matter of hours.
Long grueling road march hours so it feels longer!
Well, I don't want anyone stuck a lycnathrope who doesn't want to be, but I also don't mind having lyncanthropes in the party. Anton probably does, because of...alignment (which I hate as a system), but I don't.
IRT this... It's not his Alignment. It's his Code. Only Paladins have a Code, so they stand out.
After a long long conversation with a friend some years ago the conclusion on alignment is this: Actions dictate alignment, not the other way 'round. That is, I can write whatever I like on my character sheet, but if I then murder random people I am probably C/E, not the N/G I wrote on my sheet :)
Also, bear in mind, alignment in D&D/PF is a real, palpable, verifiable thing. There has to be *something* that keys a Holy weapon's extra damage ;) Also, Pro v. Evil (sic)...
Well, I don't want anyone stuck a lycnathrope who doesn't want to be, but I also don't mind having lyncanthropes in the party. Anton probably does, because of...alignment (which I hate as a system), but I don't.IRT this... It's not his Alignment. It's his Code. Only Paladins have a Code, so they stand out.
After a long long conversation with a friend some years ago the conclusion on alignment is this: Actions dictate alignment, not the other way 'round. That is, I can write whatever I like on my character sheet, but if I then murder random people I am probably C/E, not the N/G I wrote on my sheet :)
Also, bear in mind, alignment in D&D/PF is a real, palpable, verifiable thing. There has to be *something* that keys a Holy weapon's extra damage ;) Also, Pro v. Evil (sic)...
I know, that's why I don't like it. I remove it in many of my games, but we'll continue using RAW here.
I'm not opposed to Janos being a werewolf. Janos is actually 'complete' in what I expected of him, and he's grown far more as a character than I ever expected. Most of that is from his relationship Kendra, but also in dealing with the some of the themes and conflicts in the AP. Janos needs to figure out how he'll relate to Feral, but otherwise he's in a very comfortable place right now. And that might be boring.
Him becoming a werewolf could be Act 2 in his character development. He totally and completely loves Kendra, so that conflict would be paramount. Would it be too much for her? His own self-doubt will creep back in. Would she ultimately help chain him up so he doesn't kill people? He probably becomes more sympathetic to Feral too, which is interesting.
Mechanically, Janos could start taking levels in Feral Hunter. It would be a doubling down on some of his current abilities, but the idea of taking a Wolf Aspect or eventually getting Wild Shape is very cool. Levels of Ranger will probably continue to get mixed in mostly to get up to Quarry.
All in all, I can see some real story benefits from it. The one thing I don't want is for Janos to end up completely alone as the Warden of Ascanor. I feel like that would be a negation of his entire character development.
Im well aware I've been making things awkward for both GM and players in the course of this game. But to me Paladins are as powerful as they are because they should be a difficult class to play and stick to.
But I love 'em :)
In regards to the current issue, so we even have wolfsbane?
All in all, I can see some real story benefits from it. The one thing I don't want is for Janos to end up completely alone as the Warden of Ascanor. I feel like that would be a negation of his entire character development.
Or, the culmination of his character development. This is a horror story, and what, now, could be more horrifying to Janos? Think, he becomes a monster that hunts men, he loses and all that he has created with her and he is left for a long, long time in a lodge that can only be known as tainted or haunted (the survivors of the attacks will talk to someone...)
In a way this all sounds like epilogue stuff. I am not trying to downplay the immediate personal reactions to the horror of lycanthropy, but pointing out how little time in game has actually passed. We have been so fast and hard on the heels of the Way that there hasn't been a whole lot of time to interact with the rest of the world. Barring our one month at Harrowstone, how long have we been on the road?
We picked up some wolfsbane when we first came into the wood, stuffed in the mouth of a wolf lashed to a tree, so yeah, we have some at present.
Before anyone samples the curing poison, B'yelka will give them a Resistance, +1 is better than nothing :) Unless the subject already has a Resistance bonus ;)
All in all, I can see some real story benefits from it. The one thing I don't want is for Janos to end up completely alone as the Warden of Ascanor. I feel like that would be a negation of his entire character development.Or, the culmination of his character development. This is a horror story, and what, now, could be more horrifying to Janos? Think, he becomes a monster that hunts men, he loses and all that he has created with her and he is left for a long, long time in a lodge that can only be known as tainted or haunted (the survivors of the attacks will talk to someone...)
In a way this all sounds like epilogue stuff. I am not trying to downplay the immediate personal reactions to the horror of lycanthropy, but pointing out how little time in game has actually passed. We have been so fast and hard on the heels of the Way that there hasn't been a whole lot of time to interact with the rest of the world. Barring our one month at Harrowstone, how long have we been on the road?
A month in Ravengro IIRC, a week and change in Lepidstadt IIRC, and then a several days in the Shudderwood. Three years of RL time representing a couple months of game time. Kinda hard to keep that perspective IC. I guess it could feel like three years to the PCs since so much has happened and changed for them.
We picked up some wolfsbane when we first came into the wood, stuffed in the mouth of a wolf lashed to a tree, so yeah, we have some at present.
I'm gonna say that was only enough for one dose.
Okay, this is dragging on too much. There is time sensitive stuff happening in game, so I'm going to push it forward.
