The survivors (Inactive)

Game Master The Indescribable

Edited my post with a few other questions, sorry, I like knowing my constraints.

we can discuss that together. It has both advantages and disadvantages and others may wish to weigh in. Well people, what do you think?

So you do not understand how much i've actually wanted to play as a young character...So i'm in, i'll have something together in the morning probably, it's about 1:00pm where i am and i should probably be sleeping

This is maria, my 12 year old Unchained rogue. Yes, yes I do understand.

I like it so far, but how young do we start (min/max)?

The young penalties thing is a weird subject in terms of balance. The ability score can be worked around and mostly make sense, the size thing idk if categorized as small would always make sense though, i know a guy who's like 14 and taller than most adults i know.

as for other build things like skills and class i say keep them it would be if we were building with normal aged characters

just make it something that feels appropriate to the race. obviously you're not surviving on your own at the comparable human age of five.

I completely agree on the stat adjustments, and was just asking about the size thing because of a young character pre-gen. But what I'm concerned about is the "having only the skill ranks of a 1st-level character", it's a bit ambiguous as to whether young characters gain skill ranks for leveling up or if they are stuck with just 1st level skill ranks. (Which I admit would be stupid, but I'm just saying that's how I've always interpreted it, and thus hand-waved that as not even being written.)

Honestly I never even noticed that. Ignore it.

Doting.

Also dotting, I'm thinking either unchained summoner or mesmerist (Naruto or Sasuke).

I am wondering where you stand on this archetype, since it's third party - Bard Umbral Weaver - it gets actual control over shadows (and doesn't use music) which feels incredibly thematic for this.

I am wondering where you stand on this archetype, since it's third party - Bard Umbral Weaver - it gets actual control over shadows (and doesn't use music) which feels incredibly thematic for this.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to veto it. It replaces an extensive number of class features and has spells and feats I wouldn't be comfortable removing or judging their balance. Sorry, no Shikamaru for you.(Yes, I will continue making Naruto jokes)

(don't worry naruto jokes work here cause ninja's)

when i was first developing this character a friend of mine point out something let me know if this sounds familiar

Kid comes home one day to find family dead and an older brother having done the killing. Little sibling vows to kill said brother...

I assure you i did not do that on purpose it just sort of happened

Also just so i know are all the young characters small? or are we ignoring that as well?

Also might not actually magus need to look at the classes that get storm of blades and decide from there. Also how do you feel about some of the 3rd party oracle curses? Just so i know my options i can post a link to them if needed

We will discuss that as a group. There are problems with it. First there's your lowered damage output. If you're small, your weapons are made for small, which causes less damage. There's also the problem of outgrowing your gear. Third. Any young halflings, gnomes, etc, will be tiny. Which means they have to move into a creature's space to attack it, can't flank, etc.

Yes, yes it does. Shame.

Despite age and ninja, please keep in mind that this isn't Naruto though when making your characters.

they changed some of the races age markers. Tiefling Aasimar and Dhampir were some of the ones that specifically got a bump in the direction of human average. You might reconsider your limit on those.
You can see, here

I'd been thinking a wizard/paper mage.
Most of it would be refluffing of spells to fill the aesthetic over finding spells that specifically use paper as a theme. Though I'd likely do that as well.
EX: Acid arrow thats an ink blot, summon monsters that jump off previously drawn pictures, illusions of ink.

If permissible I'd be interested in using the Kobold press book Deep magic for their rune and ink magic spells.

Nvm, i've had an idea with magus i'm going to stick with, ignore the oracle thing. my brain hatched an idea

EDIT sorry brain moves at a mile a minute sometimes, i'll go from writers block to an so many ideas i can't sort through them all in seconds sometimes

Ammon, Movin, I need links. I take no person at their word that that is the relevant text.

Movin, last I'd known the discrepancy was due to campaign world differences.

That said, since that has changed in the PRD, we will use those rules for tieflings and Aasimars.

EDIT: Dammit Ammon, you're already getting into the spirit and ninja-ing me.

Far as I am aware Deep magic is not available online barring you having the PDF.
Fortunately the portion in question relies less on the book itself and more of the theme I was pitching.
PM with the relevant chunk incoming.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to veto it. It replaces an extensive number of class features and has spells and feats I wouldn't be comfortable removing or judging their balance. Sorry, no Shikamaru for you.(Yes, I will continue making Naruto jokes)

Understandable! I'll be submitting an Investigator, then.

Just waiting to hear some final decisions about size penalties to see if what I have in mind is viable. The young template + size penalties (plus the possibility of being reduced to tiny!) makes some things just plain not work.

Again, we are discussing this together, but none of you are registering complaints or agreeing about it. I am making my final decision on that based on what potential players have to say, but you guys are ignoring it.

ATTENTION!

Please understand that sending me copy pasted chunks of text is not acceptable. If you cannot present a standard link consider instead uploading the book to google drive and setting it to people with links cannot download. When setting sharing options go into advanced options, it's a checkbox at the bottom of the page.

okay then well here's my thing with this,

keep the ability score penalties and bonus

ignore the size penalties of being young and stick to whatever the race normally is.

thinking a cleric of Calistria with the charm and trickery domains. The trickery domain seems especially appropriate as it gives bluff and disguise as class skills and has lots of thematic domain spells and domain abilities.

Kensai Magus Ammon? ... :)

yup doing a Kensai, getting what mechanics and fluff i can now

Side note! For those of you who don't like a bunch of unused aliases cluttering up your page, you don't need them unless you're chosen. Just post the Crunch and Fluff in here.

Or don't post over 10 messages with that alias.

I am going to make my character 17 years old. Old enough to be on her own but still in young category for an Half-Elf, 20 is considered adulthood. I really wanted her to be 19 but I did not want to push my luck of being too old ... :-)

I would rather not deal with starting one size smaller than normal for race.

I meant to ask if there are any racial restrictions beyond just being "not long-lived"? Or did the Clan take in all sorts?

Again, we are discussing this together, but none of you are registering complaints or agreeing about it. I am making my final decision on that based on what potential players have to say, but you guys are ignoring it.

Alright, then. I'd rather have Young and not Small.

a) Small cuts out a large number of races as viable options by now making them Tiny.
b) Small also reduces weapon damage.
c) Instead of being excited about "Yay I'm an adult now", removing the Small template means having to get all new gear / weapons - more annoying than anything.
d) Being Young incurs +2 Dex / -2 Str, which is already representative of being on the smaller side.

If you do use both, I'd rather have it be that Small doesn't further reduce you to Tiny, since there's a solid chance that you're taking on a -4 Str as it is.

Hmm. Good points Juliet, but there are advantages as well in reduced size. As ninjas and children combat should usually not be your first option. The reduced size also increases stealth.

I think my biggest concern with starting small is having to change gear when we grow, that will be a huge pain.

To remind people, gear is relatively cheap and given you're building a clan, possibly a village depending on your choices, you should have an excess of basic gear. Most magical gear besides weapons and armor are made to be easily adjustable or will change sizes to accomodate it's user.

Hmm. Good points Juliet, but there are advantages as well in reduced size. As ninjas and children combat should usually not be your first option. The reduced size also increases stealth.

I mean, sure, but accidents happen, and if someone does get into combat, I'm fairly certain that they don't want to be dealing 1d2 damage. Reduced size increasing stealth is definitely a good point, but I think that can be handled by everyone having the option of choosing a small race. Others may say, "you know, my stealth is high enough, I don't want to lose the versatility of having the option to fight if it comes down to it." Forcing everyone to have the Small size removes that customisation option.

Plus, there is such a thing as overkill, too. Let's say that you're Small, with 1 rank in Stealth, and 2 Dexterity. Right out of the gate you have +10 to Stealth. That doesn't even account for Racial Bonuses, or multiple ranks. And then another +4 to that if you're tiny, too. As Tiny/Young Level 2 characters we could theoretically have up to, what, +18 Stealth?

I realise that as ninjas we will want to be stealthy, and obviously you want a decent enough bonus that you don't get hosed every time you try Stealth, but still.

Excellent points. No small size for young characters.

Making a Cleric that can function in a ninja clan is the most MAD character I have ever tried to make. getting hit by penalties to 3 stats to begin with doesn't help. With my planning right now none of my starting stats are higher than 14 and almost all of them are either 12 or 14.

Also how do people feel about all of us taking Stealth synergy? As long as we are in line of sight of each other we all use the highest dice roll and add our own bonuses when making stealth checks. It might help us avoid a lot of problems.

Precocious Youth

Precocious Youth

How long are you expecting we will be children for? That may impact if I take this or not.

I am definitely going human since I need the feat and skill points.

Making a Cleric that can function in a ninja clan is the most MAD character I have ever tried to make. getting hit by penalties to 3 stats to begin with doesn't help. With my planning right now none of my starting stats are higher than 14 and almost all of them are either 12 or 14.

Yeah that... sounds rough all over. Maybe a Warpriest would be more doable?

I actually don't think this would help, but once upon a time I had the idea of doing an Enlightened Paladin / Sohei Monk multiclass. Being able to wear Light Armour and add both Wisdom and Charisma to AC cut down at least slightly on the need for Dex.

I don't know. It depends how the players choose to react to their changed circumstances. For instance do you take over a thieves guild hall and start recruiting? Or simply start hiring teams? Do you build a village or a network? Or do you just adventure to level up and find loot. Your actions will decide that. So think of how you want to play.

Browman wrote:

Making a Cleric that can function in a ninja clan is the most MAD character I have ever tried to make. getting hit by penalties to 3 stats to begin with doesn't help. With my planning right now none of my starting stats are higher than 14 and almost all of them are either 12 or 14.

Yeah that... sounds rough all over. Maybe a Warpriest would be more doable?

I actually don't think this would help, but once upon a time I had the idea of doing an Enlightened Paladin / Sohei Monk multiclass. Being able to wear Light Armour and add both Wisdom and Charisma to AC cut down at least slightly on the need for Dex.

Don't expect me to be casting debuffs and I don't hit as hard in melee as I would like. Fortunately clerics don't really need a lot of feats to make buffing and using channel to heal work decently.

Also how do people feel about all of us taking Stealth synergy? As long as we are in line of sight of each other we all use the highest dice roll and add our own bonuses when making stealth checks. It might help us avoid a lot of problems.

I'm not sure how everyone else feels, but I could see it being useful. I've only got the one feat to play with, but... I was having trouble deciding anyway.

as per questions asked to my inbox

1. Can you craft your own gear. No.

2. Can you sell back parts of a kit you don't want. (Like Torches) Yes.

Alright, just realized I never flat out stated here what I was submitting so the rest of the potential party knows.

I'll be working on the more recent background and such later, but pretty much, here's the gist of how he got to the surface to being with.

as per questions asked to my inbox

1. Can you craft your own gear. No.

2. Can you sell back parts of a kit you don't want. (Like Torches) Yes.

For 1 is that just to start with or for the entire campaign?

As I said said earlier, we'll discuss background skills once players are chosen. As you're expected to be self sufficient, no, it's not for the entire campaign.

By the way, glad to see you here browman. Still slugging through updating Arda.

1. Anonymia? Really? 2. I thought you were going to be shadow bloodline.

** spoiler omitted **...

Uh... that beats my crunch... lol

Mind if I steal that layout to redo mine?

1. Anonymia? Really? 2. I thought you were going to be shadow bloodline.

Actually, her name is No Name just like the Faceless Men of No One. She will just announce what her handle will be for the day and then there will be her disguise name.

Umbral is the Mutated Version of Shadow Bloodline, since I know you will ask ... :-)

Shadow Mutated Bloodline

I felt that the Shadow Strike was immensely weak, now if it was sneak attack or if it could be toggled for both lethal and non-lethal damage instead of just non-lethal, that would have been a different story.

Xel, I don't mind, the format is from Hero Lab.

** spoiler omitted **...

So no to stealth synergy?

Anderlorn wrote:

** spoiler omitted **...

So no to stealth synergy?

I might take it later, I'm holding off for now though. Working on my crunch now, should have it up soon.