Paladin Build Guidance (Too many options! lol)


Advice


Hi there everyone. I am venturing into a pathfinder game starting at level 1 (well level 2) and was wondering if everyone can help me with figuring out a few things. My GM has asked I play a paladin (or reasonable facsimile). I know for the sake of story and role play factor that I'd like to play a Tiefling. Now this is where I run into a few uncertainties. I've read a lot of posts and I am looking at what might be some of the better builds to work towards. So this leaves a few things.
1. Trying to figure out which type of Paladin to be (Oradin, Tortured Crusader, Hospitaler with life link, etc. I even saw someone do a build that was just focused on Extra Lay On Hands combined with Oath of Vengence). All of these seem viable options but I am not sure what to pursue.
2. Upon figuring out which Paladin build to work on I would try to pick a Tiefling Heritage that would compliment well.
3. Weapons and equipment. My group has requested I not do a ranged Paladin (Although I suppose a Dex build would still be an option potentially). I think they are just wanting someone who can get in the enemies face with some staying power.
Even though I am only level 2, I like to get a build mapped out for an eventual goal to get to. Thanks for the time and consideration and I will be glad to answer any further questions anyone has.


Do you have a deity picked out? Also, are there certain class features your GM wants you to have, or are they just looking for a “Holy Warrior/Champion of Justice” sort of vibe? If the latter, you could theoretically consider Warpriest, Crusader Cleric, or Zealot Vigilante. If the former, which class features do you want to capitalize on? Losing Divine Grace hurts some concepts a bunch, while others don’t mind, for example. Same with the Auras, LoH/Mercies, etc.


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Angdril wrote:
Decision paralysis!
HedwickTheWordly wrote:
MOAR options!!


To actually contribute, though, what exactly do you want this character to do, thematically? Or, if you don't have a solid feel for the character yet, what build do you think sounds the most fun?

Lantern Lodge

A straight up paladin is a great class with lots of staying power.

Get high Str, Con and Cha.
A dex build is possible, but not recommended due to the limited number of feats a Paladin get. Assuming you want to use feat slots to get other feats.

You don't need a archetype to make a Paladin work.


Fey Foundling and Fast Healer are a great combo for a Paladin who wants to heal and shield his buddies. You would be extremely tough to kill and you can still bring the pain with a two-hander and Power Attack too ;)

lvl1 Fey Foundling
lvl3 Power Attack, Fatigued Mercy
lvl5 Endurance
lvl6 Targeted Mercy
lvl7 Diehard (start preparing Shield Other spells and soak damage from your party)
lvl9 Fast Healer, Restorative Mercy
lvl11 Greater Mercy
lvl12 Ensorcelled Mercy
lvl13 Extra Mercy: Cursed Mercy
etc.

for 25pt buy on this build, I'd suggest 18str (16+2), 10dex, 16con, 10int, 10wis, 14cha


Or you can just go Fey Foundling and Power Attack, then start pumping your LoH/Mercies like crazy.

lvl1 Fey Foundling
lvl3 Power Attack, Fatigued Mercy
lvl5 Extra Lay on Hands
lvl6 Targeted Mercy
lvl7 Greater Mercy (start preparing Shield Other spells and soak damage from your party)
lvl9 Extra Mercy, Restorative Mercy, Cursed Mercy
lvl11 Extra Mercy: Diseased Mercy
lvl12 Ensorcelled Mercy
lvl13 Extra Mercy: Poisoned Mercy

Your LoH would be godly.

for 25pt buy on this build, I'd suggest 18str (16+2), 10dex, 14con, 10int, 10wis, 16cha


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Ryze Kuja wrote:
Fey Foundling and Fast Healer are a great combo for a Paladin who wants to heal and shield his buddies. You would be extremely tough to kill and you can still bring the pain with a two-hander and Power Attack too ;)

I think three feats is a fairly tough sell for fast healer, I don't know that that is worth it.

Considering that they're already a teifling paladin, at level nine when they get the feat they'll already be healing 4d6+17 with favored class bonus and fey foundling. (Average 31) Assuming 14 CON, they've only got 59 hit points - do you really need to heal more than half your hitpoints in a round? If you're getting bursted down that fast, you'd be better off taking toughness ... instead of endurance, diehard, and a feat you actually plan to use.

As far as shield other goes, if our goal is healing the entire party, than our best option is an oradin build. We'd also get more feats and a mite customizable character that way.

And, finally, though this one isn't anything against the viability of the build ... I intensely dislike fey foundling. I dislike how it's become a go to feat for paladins, just because it's strong. Perhaps that's a little silly of me, since I've nothing against fighters taking power attack, but everyone I read a backstory for a paladin that has "as a kid I was found in the forest by fey" shoehorned into a backstory, I want to murderhobo it's author for their XPs.


HedwickTheWorldly wrote:
Do you have a deity picked out? Also, are there certain class features your GM wants you to have, or are they just looking for a “Holy Warrior/Champion of Justice” sort of vibe? If the latter, you could theoretically consider Warpriest, Crusader Cleric, or Zealot Vigilante. If the former, which class features do you want to capitalize on? Losing Divine Grace hurts some concepts a bunch, while others don’t mind, for example. Same with the Auras, LoH/Mercies, etc.

I don't have a deity selected just yet. I was kind of eyeing Shizuru and or Tsukiyo but I'm open to recommendations. The Group is looking more for the vibe of a holy warrior. We have a Cleric in the group as well as a Ranger and a Wizard.

Asmodeus' Advocate wrote:
To actually contribute, though, what exactly do you want this character to do, thematically? Or, if you don't have a solid feel for the character yet, what build do you think sounds the most fun?

Hard to say. I do like a little versatility but I also know from experience that typically a character designed for 1 or 2 jobs and do those jobs REALLY well, is going to be more successful under the Keep It Simple.

Ryze. Both those builds sound good, I just don't know in the grand scheme if they are better or worse than Oradin in the keeping team healed department for the passive bonus with Life Link. I have saved both down and am looking them over. I'm just still trying to pick out what is the most efficient thing.


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Asmodeus' Advocate wrote:
Ryze Kuja wrote:
Fey Foundling and Fast Healer are a great combo for a Paladin who wants to heal and shield his buddies. You would be extremely tough to kill and you can still bring the pain with a two-hander and Power Attack too ;)
I think three feats is a fairly tough sell for fast healer, I don't know that that is worth it.

Yeah, probably not. It's an option though if he wants to be mostly-impossible to kill. Personally, I like Vital Strike (or Cleave) and LoH builds with at least 16 base Charisma. You can ace just about any BBEG if they're actually evil.

Asmodeus' Advocate wrote:
As far as shield other goes, if our goal is healing the entire party, than our best option is an oradin build. We'd also get more feats and a mite customizable character that way.

I dislike dipping for Paladins, they get too much from getting Aura of Justice (best buff in the game) and their mercies on time. That's my two cents anyway.

Asmodeus' Advocate wrote:
And, finally, though this one isn't anything against the viability of the build ... I intensely dislike fey foundling. I dislike how it's become a go to feat for paladins, just because it's strong. Perhaps that's a little silly of me, since I've nothing against fighters taking power attack, but everyone I read a backstory for a paladin that has "as a kid I was found in the forest by fey" shoehorned into a backstory, I want to murderhobo it's author for their XPs.

this made me lol ;)


Asmodeus' Advocate wrote:
And, finally, though this one isn't anything against the viability of the build ... I intensely dislike fey foundling. I dislike how it's become a go to feat for paladins, just because it's strong. Perhaps that's a little silly of me, since I've nothing against fighters taking power attack, but everyone I read a backstory for a paladin that has "as a kid I was found in the forest by fey" shoehorned into a backstory, I want to murderhobo it's author for their XPs.

Funny you should mention that. While I was reading peoples recommendations and saw that, I gave some thought to how it would play in with story. One consideration I had was that if I did end up taking that feat is that is to play up the Tiefling/Faye combination as per a story. As a general idea is something akin to (for example) an Oni Tiefling with Fey Foundling, might just well have been the offspring of an Oni that forced itself on a Kami.


Angdril wrote:


Ryze. Both those builds sound good, I just don't know in the grand scheme if they are better or worse than Oradin in the keeping team healed department for the passive bonus with Life Link. I have saved both down and am looking them over. I'm just still trying to pick out what is the most efficient thing.

If you're going to be going Oradin and using Life Link with multiple group members, you absolutely should consider Fast Healer + Fey Foundling. You will be soaking damage like crazy, and you might even go below 0 a few times and still need to keep going (so you absolutely need Die Hard too).


Ryze Kuja wrote:
If you're going to be going Oradin and using Life Link with multiple group members, you absolutely should consider Fast Healer + Fey Foundling. You will be soaking damage like crazy, and you might even go below 0 a few times and still need to keep going (so you absolutely need Die Hard too).

Well I'm not saying with 100% certainty that is what I am doing. I'm just trying to feel out each suggestion. But again I do like those builds. I am just trying to be efficient.


I’ll be honest, I generally dislike LoH Paladin Builds, but they seem to be in vogue right now. That said, Shizuru is the goddess of swordplay and honor, and that strikes me as a much more martial sort of Paladin. I’d pick up a Katana 2-handed, snag Shield Focus and Unhindering Shield later (for essentially 7 free AC), Power Attack at level 1, and maybe go Oath of Vengeance to get Smites for DAYS. You don’t need any other archetype or anything beyond that, IMO. You’ll have Charisma to all of your saves, immunity to buckets of things, and you’ll hit like a truck (and more importantly, stand in front of your wizard)


Angdril wrote:

My GM has asked I play a paladin (or reasonable facsimile). I know for the sake of story and role play factor that I'd like to play a Tiefling. Now this is where I run into a few uncertainties. I've read a lot of posts and I am looking at what might be some of the better builds to work towards. So this leaves a few things.

1. Trying to figure out which type of Paladin to be (Oradin, Tortured Crusader, Hospitaler with life link, etc.
Core, straight out of the PHB, is stronger than most (if not all) archetypes.
Quote:
I even saw someone do a build that was just focused on Extra Lay On Hands combined with Oath of Vengence).
Fey Foundling + Greater Mercy ...it's kinda stupid how much free healing you'll have on-demain (although halflings are slightly better at it than others).
Quote:
2. Upon figuring out which Paladin build to work on I would try to pick a Tiefling Heritage that would compliment well.
If you mean Fiendish Heritage, then Demon-Spawn (+2 Strength, +2 Charisma, –2 Intelligence) is the best fit for a melee paladin. --But note that you'll have two fewer skillpoints per level (probably) than a human with the same stat distribution.
Quote:
3. Weapons and equipment. My group has requested I not do a ranged Paladin ... I think they are just wanting someone who can get in the enemies face with some staying power.
You will be exactly that...especially with a dip into Bloodrager (+ Extra Rage feat)
Quote:
Even though I am only level 2, I like to get a build mapped out for an eventual goal to get to. Thanks for the time and consideration and I will be glad to answer any further questions anyone has.

(This is 20pt-buy; if you die-roll, allocate stats with similar emphasis.)

STR+ 16
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT- 10 (demon-spawn tiefling)
WIS: 7
CHA+ 17 (all bumps)

traits: Berserker of the Society, Accelerated Drinker
01. Bloodrager1 [Urban bloodrager], Extra Rage
02. Paladin1 [core] ...etc.
03. Paladin2 [divine grace], Combat Reflexes
05 ...Power Attack

Backstory: Anger management issues, in character form!

Use a bardiche at low level, then switch to a fauchard after purchasing an opalescent white pyramid. Controlled rage all strength or half strength/dex. (Alternatively, be a normal bloodrager and forfeit a feat to pick up extra HP and will-saves while raging, but that will eventually require higher base con for Raging Vitality.)


I like offensive paladins as well. Dead mobs can't damage you ;)

lvl1 Power Attack
lvl3 Cleave, Fatigued Mercy
lvl5 Greater Cleave
lvl6 Targeted Mercy
lvl7 Vital Strike
lvl9 All-Consuming Swing, Restorative Mercy
lvl11 Improved Vital Strike
lvl12 Ensorcelled Mercy
lvl13 Eldritch Heritage (Orc1)
lvl15 Imp. Eldritch Heritage (Orc9 - +2/+4/+6 inherent bonus to strength), Mercy
lvl17 Greater Vital Strike
lvl18 Mercy
lvl19 Greater Eldritch Heritage (Orc15 - +6 size bonus to strength and large)

So if you start the game with 18 str, and take it up to 22 with lvls, you could have a +6 bonus to Str from inherent, enhancement (get a belt of physical perfection), and a +6 size bonus. So, 40 Str at lvl 20. You'd have a large weapon that causes 4x it's damage on Vital Strike.

And you can Vital Strike on Cleaves once you get All-Consuming Swing.

If you do decide to go this route, you can get really creative with using the Targeted Mercy on yourself while you're in nomnomnom mode and you've taken a bit of damage and need healing. Basically take use your swift to LoH yourself at the end of your turn instead of at the beginning of your turn, you'll have Sanctuary almost one full round, at least until you attack again. This can mitigate quite a bit of hits/spells aimed at you that you'd otherwise have to suffer before the next time you can attack.


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I'll weigh in on a couple of things:

1. Fast Healer LINK.
This seems like a total waste of a feat. Fey Foundling gives +2hp PER DIE, which means an 8th level Paladin is getting +8hp per LoH (not including Greater Mercy, Bracers etc). Fast Healer on the other hand is only ever giving it's bonus HP once per heal, and you need 18 CON for that to even get to +2hp per heal. You'd be much better off with Extra Lay on Hands, or even Toughness in my opinion. If you really want Endurance and Diehard (which aren't terrible) then I'd recommend STALWART instead (although to make the most of it you'd also want Combat Expertise, so it does become Feat intensive).

2. Fey Foundling LINK
I get that people might not like it, but it is the best self-heal feat for a Paladin there is. Also, for me I kind of love that it's so popular. If you look at the macro-statistics for Pathfinder you'll see that a disproportionate number of Fey Foundlings become Paladins. What does that tell us about Golarion? To me it says that the church (all the "good" churches) is setting up orphanages and vetting their kids for potential recruitment later on. I kind of love this unwritten story going on behind the scenes, it makes the world a little deeper. I also like things like Every Magus having the "Magical Lineage" trait ... it seems to show that magic really is hereditary - even those who want to become sword-saints end up with a magical affinity.
TLDR - Fey foundling is amazing, if someone doesn't like the flavour that's their problem.

3. Oradin LINK (just the first "guide" I found on google)
If you want to be an in-combat party-healer and still contribute then this is pretty much your best bet. Yes there are some amazing things you miss out on by dipping out of Paladin, but you really do become an amazing healer. As Ryze Kuja said, Aura of Justice is an amazing offensive buff, but you still have Smite Evil, and your ability to keep everyone alive comes online much earlier than Aura of Justice and realistically you're only pushing AoJ back 3-4 levels. This really depends what levels you think you'll be playing at. If you're finishing at level 10 or earlier then AoJ doesn't matter at all, and if you're going to levels 15+ then you'll get it anyway (just later). Look at the levels you'll be playing at and work out which abilities you care more about. The last thing about this is that an Oradin usually uses the HOSPITALER archetype so they get another channel energy pool. Get yourself at least one MEDITATION CRYSTAL and you can convert your channels into more LoH uses between battles. Between your normal LoH uses and the extras you get from channels (from Hospitaler and Oracle) you end up with: (CHA X 3) + (1/2 Paladin level) + 4 uses of Lay on Hands per day. Finally, you should definitely get yourself a set of BRACERS OF THE MERCIFUL KNIGHT if you want to be an Oradin.

4. Oath of the People's Council (OotPC) LINK
This is my own personal thing, but I love this archetype. It does replace Aura of Justice (I know I just told you how amazing that is, but hear me out), but what it gives you is a group buff right from level one, and it'll be on all day rather than just for boss-fights by the time Aura of Justice would be relevant. Personally I think OotPC makes a great substitute for Hospitaler for an Oradin. You lose some LoH uses, but you buff your team up instead. If you take the FLAGBEARER feat, grab a BANNER OF THE ANCIENT KINGS and a DERVISH SIKKE, and pick up DISCORDANT VOICE at level 11 and you'll be giving your entire party +6 to hit and +1d6+6 damage by level 11 while you're healing everyone 5hp per round.

5. Tiefling TIEFLING
As far as racial variants, here are the options that I'd consider:
A) Demon-Spawn (Pitborn): +2 STR, +2 CHA, –2 INT. This is the go-to for Melee Paladins.
B)Kyton-Spawn (Shackleborn): +2 CON, +2 CHA, –2 WIS. The CON bonus makes this a pretty good option for an Oradin since you need HP in order to tank for the party.
C) Div-Spawn (Spitespawn): +2 Dex, +2 Cha, –2 Int. OR Rakshasa-Spawn (Beastbrood): +2 Dex, +2 Cha, –2 Wis. These would be good options for a ranged Paladin.
Tieflings obviously get a great FCB for Paladins (making them probably the best Oradins).
The "Soul Seer" alternate racial trait seems pretty fitting (and useful) for an Oradin.
Tieflings also get some interesting feats: ANCESTRAL SCORN seems pretty great, and if you pick up Power Attack and CORNUGON SMASH (and maybe INTIMIDATING PROWESS) and you'll be great at fighting Demons/Daemons/Devils. FIEND SIGHT and GRASPING TAIL are both pretty nice utility feats too.
As for traits, UNSCATHED is pretty great for a Tiefling.

That's all I got for now, but hopefully you get something from that wall of text =P


Thanks guys. This is really great so far. Please if you have more recommendations please keep it coming. Mr Charisma I love your layout of things so far. Thank you!


Alright. After a great deal of research (that is still making my head hurt lol) I think I'm leaning towards more of the offense style builds and less healing. Given that we have a cleric whom (I hope) will have the groups back in need of larger healing and since I seem to be our primary damage at the second. I also figure that going out of my way to buff my allies might be counter intuitive if the group stays as small as it is. I do want to retain some healing ability though and not focus strictly on smite (in case of encounters that are not against purely evil enemies I don't want to be too badly handicapped).

I think for my own staying power I am likely to still try and build tiefling LOH combo but I am wondering if it is at all possible to build a decent mixed damage build that can go between two handed weapon to a bow? My concern being that all my power means nothing if I can't get in close to the enemy but also not wanting to become helpless at close range. I'm opting also not to go for mounted since the mount might not always be accessible. Looking at the bloodrager (Urban) class as a dip does seem to add quite a bit in the offense department.

I rolled for my ability scores and managed to secure a 17, 17, 16, 13, 13, 12 so that was nice at least. Too bad no 18s though.


MrCharisma wrote:

4. Oath of the People's Council (OotPC) LINK

This is my own personal thing, but I love this archetype. It does replace Aura of Justice (I know I just told you how amazing that is, but hear me out), but what it gives you is a group buff right from level one, and it'll be on all day rather than just for boss-fights by the time Aura of Justice would be relevant. Personally I think OotPC makes a great substitute for Hospitaler for an Oradin. You lose some LoH uses, but you buff your team up instead. If you take the FLAGBEARER feat, grab a BANNER OF THE ANCIENT KINGS and a DERVISH SIKKE, and pick up DISCORDANT VOICE at level 11 and you'll be giving your entire party +6 to hit and +1d6+6 damage by level 11 while you're healing everyone 5hp per round.

It's pretty good (you're basically a bard with a weaker paladin spell list and full BAB) and most other pally benefits -- but you do give up Smite.

Depending upon your GM, the Dervish Sikke may not work (it's text specifically refers to bards, i.e., not anyone capable of inspire courage or competence).


Angdril wrote:
...I am wondering if it is at all possible to build a decent mixed damage build that can go between two handed weapon to a bow?
All you need is Quick Draw to get the bow up fast, and Deadly Aim (I'd wait on both of these in your case, however, until you reliably have a second attack available after BAB6). If you're very strong, an ordinary sling will dish out the pain to anything not terribly far away.
Quote:
I'm opting also not to go for mounted since the mount might not always be accessible.

It really depends on the campaign. --Just buy a warhorse (i.e., heavy horse, trained-for-war) for 450gp early on and see how it goes. If you GM doesn't try to murder the thing every two seconds or exclude it from encounters, then go with the flow (especially if an improved mount is granted at some point). There are several ways to transport animals through chokepoints (invariably costing gold, so YMMV depending upon how often treasure gets dolled out). The stats you rolled (see below) also suggest wearing heavy armor, so at least you're moving 50' while mounted instead of 20'.

Also, don't forget that you're +1 to attack targets on foot that are smaller than your mount, and you get double-damage with a lance.

Quote:
I rolled for my ability scores and managed to secure a 17, 17, 16, 13, 13, 12 so that was nice at least. Too bad no 18s though.

Look at this kid; gets 42pt-buy and he's cryin'.

;-)

Here's your demon-spawn tiefling, after racial adjustments:

STR+ 19 (raise 4th or 8th)
DEX: 13
CON: 16
INT- 11 (raise 12th, and max out UMD, or Ride, if your GM is handing out dragon mounts)
WIS: 10
CHA+ 19 (raise 4th or 8th)

This leaves Con high enough for Raging Vitality (a necessary feat if you dip a Bloodrager archetype that isn't Urban to enjoy faster movement and more hitpoints -- which is quite handy if you're not going to be a Fey Foundling/Greater Mercy LoH swift-fapper.

traits: Berserker of the Society, Dangerously Curious
01. Bloodrager1 [Id Rager][Skill Focus:Intimidate], Extra Rage
02. Paladin1 [core] ...etc.
03. Paladin2 [divine grace], Quick Draw or Raging Vitality


Slim Jim wrote:
MrCharisma wrote:
4. Oath of the People's Council

It's pretty good (you're basically a bard with a weaker paladin spell list and full BAB) and most other pally benefits -- but you do give up Smite.

Depending upon your GM, the Dervish Sikke may not work (it's text specifically refers to bards, i.e., not anyone capable of inspire courage or competence).

Yeah I made a thread asking about the OotPC a little while back, and the basic conclusion was that you become a tanky-bard. I really like it for an Oradin because you're dishing out damage and healing the party just by standing there. If the enemy doesn't come straight at you then the whole party is dealing and tanking way more damage. When they do turn their attention towards you they have to deal with all the things that make Paladins hard to kill (heavy armour, D10hp, Full BAB for CMD, best saves in the game, immunity to stuff). If you're going to play the buffer you don't want to be fragile.

As for the Dervish Sikke, you're right it might not be legal (also I don't think it's PFS legal for anyone who's looking for that). This is a "Check with your GM before you buy" scenario.

Angdril wrote:
I rolled for my ability scores and managed to secure a 17, 17, 16, 13, 13, 12 so that was nice at least. Too bad no 18s though.

Those are some pretty great stats. If you're going Melee I'd put the 17's in STR and CHA, and the 16 in CON (the other's don't matter too much). If you pick Pitborn Tiefling you're starting with 19 STR/CHA and 16 CON, and your lowest stat would be INT (probably at 10).

When you talk about wanting to be proficient with a bow in case you can't close with the enemy, how proficient do you want to be?
If you only need it for enemies that are running away then simply picking yourself up a MW Composite Longbow (+4 STR-rating would be fine) would let you deal damage when they won't come to you. If they're Evil you can add some Smite and you'll still be out-damaging a lot of people.
If you want to be able to shoot into Melee (with your allies) then I think the minimum would be Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot. Paladins don't get any bonus feats, and there are some feats that are almost too good not to take (Fey Foundling for example), so they tend to be pretty feat-starved. With archery being so feat-intensive I wouldn't want to invest more than 2 feats into archery unless you're going to make it your main tactic.
(TLDR you can use a bow fine without any feats if it's not your primary strategy).

Bloodrager is a great dip for a Paladin (you can take the Fatigue Mercy at level 3 and ignore the penalty for ending a rage). Urban Bloodrager gives you more options at range, so it's definitely a strong option (It also won't stop you casting/etc so it's really all positive). If you're Bloodrager I'd say take 4 levels of Paladin (those first 4 levels get you a lot) then dip 1 level into Bloodrager at 5 and take Extra Rage. Usually I'd say the thematic choice is the Celestial Bloodline (although a few abilities don't stack with Paladin abilities), but since you're a tiefling and maybe a fey foundling you have a bunch of options that fit (and really you can choose any bloodline you like).

Sounds like a strong character, let us know if you need more help.


Angdril wrote:

Alright. After a great deal of research (that is still making my head hurt lol) I think I'm leaning towards more of the offense style builds and less healing. Given that we have a cleric whom (I hope) will have the groups back in need of larger healing and since I seem to be our primary damage at the second. I also figure that going out of my way to buff my allies might be counter intuitive if the group stays as small as it is. I do want to retain some healing ability though and not focus strictly on smite (in case of encounters that are not against purely evil enemies I don't want to be too badly handicapped).

I think for my own staying power I am likely to still try and build tiefling LOH combo but I am wondering if it is at all possible to build a decent mixed damage build that can go between two handed weapon to a bow? My concern being that all my power means nothing if I can't get in close to the enemy but also not wanting to become helpless at close range. I'm opting also not to go for mounted since the mount might not always be accessible. Looking at the bloodrager (Urban) class as a dip does seem to add quite a bit in the offense department.

I rolled for my ability scores and managed to secure a 17, 17, 16, 13, 13, 12 so that was nice at least. Too bad no 18s though.

Nice rolls. I'd go Pitborn, 19(17+2)str, 19(17+2)cha, 16con, 13dex, 11(13-2)int, 12wis personally.

Remember that you have an amazing FCB for Tiefling Paladin: Add +1 to the amount of damage the paladin heals with lay on hands, but only when the paladin uses that ability on herself.

So you could probably survive just fine without getting Fey Foundling feat, but if your Cleric is going to be healing you most of the time, Fey Foundling is still a really solid lvl1 feat. Anywho, I'm going to put Fey Foundling in this build idea below, but you can drop it for something else if you don't want it.

Also, don't try to go melee and ranged, you should pick either one and stick to it. Ranged is quite feat intensive to make it good, and Paladins are already feat starved enough as it is.

Basically, this is a BBEG slayer build. You're a BBEG's absolute nightmare who's really tough to kill and with strong debuffing as well.

lvl1 Fey Foundling
lvl3 Power Attack, Fatigued Mercy
lvl5 Greatsword Battler (Divine Fighting Technique - allows Vital Strike on AoO's and Charge) or Extra Lay on Hands or Greater Mercy
lvl6 Targeted Mercy
lvl7 Vital Strike
lvl9 Cornugon Smash, Restorative Mercy (Get a Cruel Enchant on your weapon for Shaken/Sicken combo: -4att, skills, saves, abilchecks, and -2 damage)
lvl10 Greatsword Battler Advanced Benefit(s): When you use Vital Strike, Improved Vital Strike, or Greater Vital Strike with a greatsword, the damage counts as continuous damage from an injury for the purpose of determining whether a target must attempt a concentration check to cast spells. <--- This is so annoying for casters
lvl11 Improved Vital Strike
lvl12 Ensorcelled Mercy
lvl13 Intimidating Prowess
lvl15 Extra Mercy: Diseased Mercy, Cursed Mercy
lvl17 Greater Vital Strike
lvl18 Poisoned Mercy
lvl19 Extra Lay on Hands or Extra Mercy: Blinded Mercy


Ryze Kuja wrote:

lvl1 Fey Foundling

lvl3 Power Attack, Fatigued Mercy
lvl5 Greatsword Battler (Divine Fighting Technique - allows Vital Strike on AoO's and Charge) or Extra Lay on Hands or Greater Mercy
lvl6 Targeted Mercy
lvl7 Vital Strike
lvl9 Cornugon Smash, Restorative Mercy (Get a Cruel Enchant on your weapon for Shaken/Sicken combo: -4att, skills, saves, abilchecks, and -2 damage)
lvl11 Improved Vital Strike
lvl12 Ensorcelled Mercy
lvl13 Intimidating Prowess
lvl15 Extra Mercy: Diseased Mercy, Cursed Mercy
lvl17 Greater Vital Strike
lvl18 Poisoned Mercy
lvl19 Extra Lay on Hands or Extra Mercy: Blinded Mercy

It's a good build, but I should point out that "Greatsword Battler" is actually called "Gorum's Swordsmanship" (FOUND HERE). Since you have to worship Gorum to get the benefit you'll probably have to check with your GM about this one.

Technically Paladin's don't have to receive their powers from a specific god (outside of PFS), so you could be getting your powers from somewhere in the great beyond while worshipping Gorum as a more personal thing, but it's entirely up to the GM's discretion. As a Chaotic Neutral god Gorum isn't exactly the first choice for the average Paladin, and since his domains are Chaos, Destruction, Glory, Strength, and War (subdomains: Blood, Duels, Ferocity, Fist, Legend, Protean, Rage, Resolve, Tactics) he doesn't seem particularly fitting. I could imagine a Paladin focusing on Glory and Strength (plus Duels, Legends and Resolve) but again you'd really have to check with your GM first.


They're the same thing pretty much.

Greatsword Battler - Divine Fighting Techniques

Scroll down to Greatsword Battler. As far as I'm aware, you can do this as long as you worship a deity.

And technically, Paladins 'can' worship deities. It's encouraged, but not required. Paladins can also just devote themselves to an ideal of doing good or upholding the law.

Holy Champion (Su)

At 20th level, a paladin becomes a conduit for the power of her god. Her DR increases to 10/evil. Whenever she uses smite evil and successfully strikes an evil outsider, the outsider is also subject to a banishment, using her paladin level as the caster level (her weapon and holy symbol automatically count as objects that the subject hates). After the banishment effect and the damage from the attack is resolved, the smite immediately ends. In addition, whenever she channels positive energy or uses lay on hands to heal a creature, she heals the maximum possible amount.


The d20pfsrd site is restricted in what it can publish under fair use. As such they don't publish certain brand-specific names (for example the names of deities). This means that they sometimes re-name feats/etc to avoid breaching copyright.

DIVINE FIGHTING TECHNIQE <- d20pfsrd
DIVINE FIGHTING TECHNIQUE <- archivesofnethys.com
(archivesofnethys.com is a not-for-profit, and is therefore allowed to use certain materials under fair use.)

You can see on the archivesofnethys page the "Divine Fighting Technique" feat (which is actually the feat you're taking) has the following text at the top of the page: "Prerequisites: Must worship a single patron deity that has an established divine fighting technique."

As to worshipping a deity, you're correct - technically Paladins don't have to worship a deity to receive their powers. Having said that I wouldn't think a GM was being unfair if they didn't allow my Paladin to worship a Chaotic-Neutral god of destruction and war.

Personally I'm all for allowing things like this, I'm just pointing out that you shouldn't base your build on a feat that your GM may not let you take.

If your GM can't rationalise it, try to play up the Glory and Strength aspects of Gorum (plus Duels, Legends and Resolve). If your GM is on the fence this might be enough to convince them.


The one right next to it, Iomedae's Inspiring Sword, is pretty damn good too.


Slim Jim wrote:
The one right next to it, Iomedae's Inspiring Sword, is pretty damn good too.

Oh man, mind-blowingly good!


The builds look spectacular. My only concern with the Divine Fighting is that I think they are trying to have me go Lawful Good so I'm not sure in the worship of Gourn. That being said, I think that Iomedaes Inspiring Sword might be a suitable replacement for it.

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