Fighter Advanced Weapons Training


Rules Questions


I was looking at making a fighter archetype mutation warrior. They lose their armor training but keep all of their weapons training.

I was looking in depth at the fighters advanced weapons training. I was planning on possibly switching to a 18-20 crit threat weapon once I hit level 8. So at level 5 I would take the greatsword weapon category and at level 9 I would choose the 'falchion' (18-20 crit threat) category for the weapons training.

After that I have to choose an advanced weapons training. Most of them seemed underwhelming. The advanced weapons training for the following tactics seems like a possibility to take.

Fighters Tactics
Focused Weapon
Warrior Spirit
Weapon Sacrifice
Weapon Specialist

I'm basically looking at taking advanced weapons training for levels 13 and 17. At levels 5 and 9 I have to choose a weapons group. I don't quite understand exactly how it works for some of these trainings. Here's what is stated for some of the advanced weapons training.

Warrior Spirit (Su) The fighter can forge a spiritual bond with a weapon that belongs to the associated weapon group, allowing him to unlock the weapon’s potential. Each day, he designates one such weapon and gains a number of points of spiritual energy equal to 1 + his weapon training bonus. While wielding this weapon, he can spend 1 point of spiritual energy to grant the weapon an enhancement bonus equal to his weapon training bonus. Enhancement bonuses gained by this advanced weapon training option stack with those of the weapon, to a maximum of +5. The fighter can also imbue the weapon with any one weapon special ability with an equivalent enhancement bonus less than or equal to his maximum bonus by reducing the granted enhancement bonus by the amount of the equivalent enhancement bonus. The item must have an enhancement bonus of at least +1 (from the item itself or from warrior spirit) to gain a weapon special ability. In either case, these bonuses last for 1 minute.

If I choose the weapon group for the falchion. Will this stack with the focused weapon advanced training? How exactly does this advanced weapons training work?

Another training which I'm unsure how it works:

Weapon Sacrifice (Ex) When damage would cause the fighter or an adjacent ally to be knocked unconscious or killed, as a swift or immediate action the fighter can instead direct the damage to a weapon from the associated weapon group that he is wielding. The original target takes no damage, but the weapon receives only half its normal hardness. The fighter can use this option a number of times per day equal to the fighter’s weapon training bonus with the associated weapon group. He cannot use this option with unarmed attacks.

Can I have a backup weapon and choose that weapon to take the damage? If I have a unique magical item and it takes the damage and breaks can I repair it? Seems like it almost might be better just to get killed and get the party to use a raise dead vs breaking my powerful unique magical weapon.

One more question related to this advanced weapons training:

Weapon Specialist (Ex) The fighter selects a number of combat feats that he knows equal to his weapon training bonus with the associated weapon group. The selected feats must be ones that require the fighter to choose a type of weapon (such as Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization), and the fighter must have chosen weapons that belong to the associated fighter weapon group. The fighter is treated as having the selected feats for all the weapons in the associated weapon group that are legal choices for those feats. The fighter is also considered to have those feats with these weapons for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.

What does it mean I choose a number of combat feats? Do I get them or how does this work? And at level 13 or 17 what is my weapon training bonus? If I chose the falchion group for weapon bonus at level 9, does that mean at level 13 I would have a +2/+2 bonus and at level 17 a +3/+3 att/dmg bonus?

Any clarity and recommendations on these matters would greatly help.

Thanks in advance!

Liberty's Edge

Falchion and Greatsword are both part of the heavy blades category, so you wouldn't need to select two different weapon groups.

The weapon training bonuses are untyped bonuses, so they will stack with warrior spirit, which usually provides an enhancement bonus.

Weapon sacrifice would be hard to pull off. Advanced weapon training requires you to be wielding a weapon from one of your trained weapon groups. So if you can wield a back up greatsword or falchion between turns, you could use it instead of your back up weapon, but it's clearly meant to be used with your primary weapon. You can repair your broken weapons though, and it's usually much easier than raising characters from the dead.

For weapon specialist, you don't gain bonus feats, but say you already had weapon focus and weapon specialization for the greatsword, at level 9 you could use weapon specialist to have them apply to all heavy blades, including the falchion.


1. Yes, it will stack. You would take the Heavy Blades weapon group as that's what falchion is from. Warrior Spirit is kind of like a magus' arcane pool. Once per day, you designate one weapon from the (In your case) Heavy Blades group, i.e. your falchion, and you gain a number of points equal to 1 + your weapon training bonus. You can spend a point to grant an enhancement bonus to said designated weapon equal to your weapon training bonus, which stacks with whatever bonus your falchion has, up to +5. You can also put special properties on it, but the falchion has to be +1 first. This all lasts for 1 minute per use.

2. As long as it's from the Heavy Blades group, you theoretically can just bring along a cheapo burner greatsword for falchion to use Weapon Sacrifice, but you'd either have to have it in your hand already to use it, or you'd have to have Quick Draw considering that it's either a free or swift action to use.

You can in fact repair a broken magic item, quite easily if you have a cleric or wizard; even if it gets legitimately destroyed (Which used to be much harder, if not impossible, to fix.) Just pay a powerful caster to cast make whole, greater.

3. How Weapon Specialist works is that you choose a number of feats that you personally know that require you to choose a weapon from your fighter weapon group, Heavy Blades. So, say you know Weapon Focus: Falchion. When you take Weapon Specialist, you now effectively have Weapon Focus for every single weapon in the Heavy Blades category and gain the bonuses to all of those weapons. This can also work for things like Weapon Specialization and Improved Critical.

And lastly, that is correct, by choosing one of the advanced weapon training options, your bonus goes down. If you choose one of these options at 9th level, at 13th your bonus would go to +2, and +3 at 17th.


Instead of weapon specialist, wouldn't it be a better idea just to retrain those combat feats for the weapon I'm currently using (falchion post level 8) and use another advanced weapons training?

The weapon group I chose at level 5 would have +1/+1 at level 5. And every 4 levels would increase by +1/+1 correct regardless of what advanced weapons training I take?

On your last point dark midian - If I take an advanced weapons training for warrior spirit, at level 9 I would have a +1/+1 bonus? Which would be a +2/+2 at level 13?

It states:

Warrior Spirit (Su) The fighter can forge a spiritual bond with a weapon that belongs to the associated weapon group, allowing him to unlock the weapon’s potential. Each day, he designates one such weapon and gains a number of points of spiritual energy equal to 1 + his weapon training bonus.

Would my weapon training bonus be +2/+2 (+1/+1 at level 5) or would it be +1/+1 at level 9 since that's when I chose the warrior spirit? How does this spiritual energy points work?

Thanks for the help guys

Liberty's Edge

Crexis wrote:
Instead of weapon specialist, wouldn't it be a better idea just to retrain those combat feats for the weapon I'm currently using (falchion post level 8) and use another advanced weapons training?

If you're using the retraining options from ultimate campaign, that's probably true. If you're using the fighter option to retrain a combat feat every 4 levels, not so much. You could also just start using a falchion to begin with. The difference in damage generally isn't a huge deal. It would also mean that you wouldn't have to worry about enchanting a greatsword, only to lose money when selling it off for a falchion.

Crexis wrote:
The weapon group I chose at level 5 would have +1/+1 at level 5. And every 4 levels would increase by +1/+1 correct regardless of what advanced weapons training I take?

That's correct.

Crexis wrote:
On your last point dark midian - If I take an advanced weapons training for warrior spirit, at level 9 I would have a +1/+1 bonus? Which would be a +2/+2 at level 13?

When you select an advanced weapon training, you select a group that you already have training in to apply it to. If you select heavy blades at 5, it would be the only group you could apply warrior spirit to at 9. So it would be +2/+2 at 9, and +3/+3 at 13.

Crexis wrote:

It states:

Warrior Spirit (Su) The fighter can forge a spiritual bond with a weapon that belongs to the associated weapon group, allowing him to unlock the weapon’s potential. Each day, he designates one such weapon and gains a number of points of spiritual energy equal to 1 + his weapon training bonus.

Would my weapon training bonus be +2/+2 (+1/+1 at level 5) or would it be +1/+1 at level 9 since that's when I chose the warrior spirit? How does this spiritual energy points work?

Thanks for the help guys

It's referring to the weapon training of the group you apply the advanced weapon training to. Like I said above, your bonus would by +2 at level 9, +3 at 13. Since you get 1 + your weapon training bonus uses per day, at 9 it's 3/day, at level 13 it 4/day.


Wow, thanks for the detailed response Deighton! I think I'm going to take your advice and just start with the falchion.

I understood everything you said but there's one thing about the Warrior Spirit which I don't completely understand. It states:

"While wielding this weapon, he can spend 1 point of spiritual energy to grant the weapon an enhancement bonus equal to his weapon training bonus."

Don't I already gain, at level 9 a +2/+2 to my falchion from the weapons training?

If this is taken at level 9, would I get an additional +2/+2 to my falchion on top of the bonus it's already given? Not clear on how this works.


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Crexis wrote:

Wow, thanks for the detailed response Deighton! I think I'm going to take your advice and just start with the falchion.

I understood everything you said but there's one thing about the Warrior Spirit which I don't completely understand. It states:

"While wielding this weapon, he can spend 1 point of spiritual energy to grant the weapon an enhancement bonus equal to his weapon training bonus."

Don't I already gain, at level 9 a +2/+2 to my falchion from the weapons training?

If this is taken at level 9, would I get an additional +2/+2 to my falchion on top of the bonus it's already given? Not clear on how this works.

The first +2/+2 you refer to (which is always there) is an untyped bonus. The second +2/+2 is an enhancement bonus. They stack, so you'd get +4/+4 total... OR you could put +2 worth of magical abilities on your weapon (say flaming burst), or get a +1/+1 enhancement bonus and a +1 magical ability (say plain flaming). The versatility of being able to adapt your weapon to the situation you find yourself in is very powerful.


Thanks, I now know how it works! Seems like its one of the best advanced weapon trainings.


There is much to teach you.

I recommend the Nodachi over the falchion, as it qualifies for both heavy blades and polearm as weapon groups. This opens up more options from the start and is a great weapon to focus on.

Warrior Spirit is your best option because it opens up many doors.

Focused Weapon won't be useful until later levels, so you can hold off on that.

I would not bother with Weapon Specialist.


sifu_marshmallowSearchFu Master wrote:


Warrior Spirit is your best option because it opens up many doors.

Just be aware, warrior spirit requires a standard action to use and at lower level can only be used once/day.

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