no, TWF is only for non-natural attacks. now they can TWF with unarmed or weapons and use any extra natural attacks too.
All are primary if you do only natural attacks. if you combine with non-natural then all are secondary.
Why doesn't it work. Id like to be able to site a rule somewhere because the person whose trying it wont listen otherwise
Why would it work? In pathfinder it's assumed you can't unless a rule says you can. So where in natural attacks or TWF makes them think they can?
twf is only with one-handed weapons and light weapons.
EDIT: and you never wield natural attacks I think.
but you can take it for unarmed strikes.
Yes. You should take a look at ferral combat training.
Maybe, you could explain what exactly you are trying to get done in 1 round. And then we help you. Not just asking arbitrary questions.EDIT:
Regarding natural attacks. Per full attack you get to do all of them. Bite and claws are primary, so all 3 are at full BAB.
If you want to reduce penalty from secondary natural attack take a look at multiattack feat - that is probably what you want.
Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon).
You can fight with a weapon wielded in each of your hands. You can make one extra attack each round with the secondary weapon.
Prerequisite: Dex 15.
Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6. See Two-Weapon Fighting.
If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon.
So, a Natural Attack is explicitly an attack "made without a weapon" and two weapon fighting requires that you wield "a second weapon in your off hand".
His question isn't arbitrary at all, in fact it's very strait forward.
I could give you a big in depth analyzation of two weapon fighting and natural weapons, but I'm going to give you a much simpler answer. Have him take the feral combat training feat. Then he can do what he wants within the rules.
His question isn't arbitrary at all, in fact it's very strait forward.
I could give you a big in depth analyzation of two weapon fighting and natural weapons, but I'm going to give you a much simpler answer. Have him take the feral combat training feat. Then he can do what he wants within the rules.
Why would anyone want to do that? I'm pretty sure he is trying to get something done via some sort strange and unconventional method when the thing he actually wants could be achieved much easier.
He tells what kind of attacks and how many he wants to make and we tell him how he could do it.
I was offering a way to make TWF work with natural attacks.
Other than that feat, no, there is no way to make them work together. TWF only works with manufactured weapons with the exception of unarmed strikes which it calls out in the feat description.
First off its not my character, but a friend whose talking about all the amazing dmg it can do. Which 9/10 means theres something potentially wrong.
Second feral combat wouldnt allow for twf since improved unarmed strike isnt a prereq.
They've made a bloodrager Dragon disciple at lvl 10. Has beast totems from barbarian.
Oh, sorry I forgot it was nerfed in the last errata. Prior to that you could.
But primalist bloodrager dragon disciple can really deal a lot of damage.
But it cannot do more natural attacks than it has. So bite, claw, claw. That's it. Unless he uses form of dragon to gain wings and tail he does not gain more natural attacks.
While in bipedal form one cannot apply claws to feet. So 2 claws and 1 bite. Nothing more.
Oh wow they really changed feral combat training. My apologies, I wasn't caught up to latest errata.
Well, I suppose you just can't now. Sorry.
Oh wow they really changed feral combat training. My apologies, I wasn't caught up to latest errata.
Well, I suppose you just can't now. Sorry.
You can still flurry with it as a monk. Salizaar Blackshadow didn't post the special line.
You needed rules' extracts:
Here it is:
If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way. You can reduce these penalties in two ways. First, if your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light. Second, the Two-Weapon Fighting feat lessens the primary hand penalty by 2, and the off-hand penalty by 6.
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.
"Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack's original type."
If the character is treating natural attacks as attacks made with weapons then they all become secondary and on top of that they take a -2 for TWF. So would he be doing amazing dmg at -7 to hit and 1/2 strength damage?
This section clearly separates natural attacks made with weapons. TWF is with the latter group. See universal monster rules, natural attacks.
But how can you take two weapon fighting with natural attacks? Also if this was the case with natural attacks why wouldnt every monster with claws take it so they could get a ridiculous amount of attacks.
You can't. My point was that if you ignore that point by counting natural attacks as weapon attacks, you'd end up with -7 to hit and 1/2 strength damage on all the attacks. I know I'd rather have full to hit and str damage instead of -7 to hit and 1/2 strength damage plus an extra attack.