About to Run Iron Gods - Any Advice?


Iron Gods

Silver Crusade

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I'm about to run the Iron Gods AP - I've never run any Adventure Paths before and I'm looking for advice. I've run adventures before - with mixed success, but I'd like to give Iron Gods a go. I love the style, the science-fantasy of the setting.

I've gone over the module once before, reading it from front to back, something that I'm about to do again.

Any advice relating to things to get ready for, to prepare or any pitfalls or suggestions pertaining to Iron Gods - especially from those that have already run players through the adventure path would be greatly appreciated.

I've got the book Fires of Creation, as well as the books Numeria: Land of Fallen Stars, Technology Guide, People of the Stars, and Distant Worlds. I've also run off the maps at full scale and am just getting ready to pick up the Pawn Set too.

Because I've not run a lot of Pathfinder before and never an adventure path, I'm thinking that I'll limit some of the player's options to include core races with the addition of the Android race, as well as core classes with the addition of gunslinger. But I'm open to suggestions.

Liberty's Edge

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First off, EXCELLENT choice of Adventure Path! Personally, I will never stop running this adventure. Soon as my current group is finished, I have another group waiting. I hope you and your players have as much fun as we have had!

But onto some other things;

One of the first real boss fights in Fires of Creation, as the end of the Habitat Module, there is a particularly nasty fight with an undead creature who nearly wiped my party because they had not yet hit level 2. Going up against him as a level 1 is dangerous, but there is plenty of opportunity for the party to gather some XP before heading into that fight.

Play up the tech! This is the only adventure path where you get to use technology from beyond Golarion! Do NOT let your players read the The Guide, for it will not only spoil things, but it will remove the magic from the discovery of tech. Don't just say "you find a laser pistol" but put it as, "you pick up what reminds you of the firearms from Alkenstar, but the frame is sleek and the grip feels more natural. The casing is scorched and chipped, clearly ages old, and it sparks on occasion." Let them experiment with the items to find out what they do. By book 5 they should be very familiar with lots of tech and how it works and its basic principles, but let it be magical for the first few books!

The orc gal with the chainsaw:
BE CAREFUL WITH KULGARA. This villain fight in the second book nearly wiped my party, twice, ON HER OWN. Make her a tough fight (she has some potent and iconic tech after all), but be careful not to overdo it.

In book 5, maybe consider how many of the gearsman in the adventure have rocket launchers, and maybe have a few of them not carry them. My players would have rocked many things far too easily if they got the launchers quick enough. There are many, MANY, rocket launchers to pick up, so be careful about how many get into the hands of the players, as it could get chaotic and out of control pretty fast.

Give some careful thought into how to roleplay an android. The heroes will meet a few in the adventure, and they can be fascinating and somewhat frustrating conversation partners.

Give hints that some of the villains early on can be moved towards better ends. Don't simply roleplay them as bad guys to take down, but people who've made choices that are hurting them in the long run. Just killing all of the villains would have really ruined a lot of my home game. Two of the major villainous characters in the first book are still alive in my game, and have even begun romantic relations with some characters, and quickly been taken on as cohorts with Leadership!

important friend:
When the heroes find Casandalee, play up her multiple personalities, and make sure that she remains an NPC and conversation partner. My partner mostly keeps her in their handy haversack with her power down, only really pulling her out if they have a question for her. She's a major player in the last book, so keep her in the spotlight!

If you play music, find some good tracks to use! I use Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed 2 and 3, Metal Gear Solid, Portal, Halo, Metroid Prime, and Fallout music in my games, and they really help with the personality of the adventure. Find some music that helps highlight the fantasy, the tech, and the mystery of it all!

On the topic of music, also consider using Syrinscape's Sci-Fi player for some excellent sci-fi sound effects!

book 2's villain:
Try and keep Hellion alive after the second book, he makes for a satisfying and exciting recurring villain. My game had a satisfying end for him in their fight (Hellion climbed on to the wheel of the digging machine, crying out at the PCs that he would be back, stronger and smarter and hungry for vengeance, while a certain quiet and converted android friend of the PCs solemnly activated what little strength the digging machine had to run Hellion beneath the wheel and crush him, and exhausting the power he had collected for the machine in a most ironic twist.

friend made in book 4:
Isuma in book 4 is one of the most interesting and almost Doctor Who-esque NPCs in this adventure, so give her some good flavor being the alien displaced unimaginably far from the home she knew, not only in light years, but in actual years too.

Encourage the players NOT to be Kasatha, as it requires you to rewrite a few things about the campaign later on and could be difficult to work into the game easily.

The Technic League is one of the major villains in the campaign, so show them for the bastards that they are. Show their cruelty, their might as a political power, and their reach and technological prowess. You have plenty of villains to use!

book 3 setting:
Really create a powerful contrast between the tech-heavy adventure and the sudden shock of going to Iadenveigh in Book 3. From high-tech adventures to Erastil farmlands should be a somewhat uncomfortable change, especially for people who have been embracing the tech up to this point.

I should probably leave this here before I write a whole essay on this AP, but I really hope you guys have lots of fun with it!

Silver Crusade

Wow! Thank you! No, don't feel like you've written a novel - I greatly appreciate it! It'll all get put to use.

It's funny that you should mention the music choices - I was actually getting the ambient fallout music together to play during the exploration portions and maybe even the combat parts, just something to help set the mysterious tone as if something terrible has happened and now it's all forgotten.

And I completely agree - I'm not planning on letting them have access to the tech book while we're playing. I know at least one has poured over it in past - he lit into it as soon as he could! Another has some knowledge of it, but hasn't delved to deeply. And the last two haven't looked at it at all. I'll probably ask them to not reference it from here on out expect for archtypes. I'm going to do my best to play it up, the mystery of the technology and keep it magical for as long as I can. That was always something that I enjoyed about Gamma World... and Expedition to Barrier Peaks...

You're talking about the Kasatha, right? The undead creature at the beginning of the second section? I'm very interested to see how that part plays out. And I'll be sure to encourage the party to go back home every now and then - that seems to be an important part of the adventure and something that I'm not entirely used to.

And something else that I really enjoy about this module - not all of the monsters are trying to kill you. They can and will if you let them, but most of them just want to go back home. It has a certain lost feeling, the whole module does as if everyone just wants things back to normal.

I appreciate the advice Kot, all of it really. Especially about keeping people alive and getting them back in for more action later. And if you have more advice, I'd love to hear it.

Liberty's Edge

No problem! I love this AP and look forward to helping anyone else enjoy as much as I have!

One more bit I have been thinking about for a few hours comes up in book 1. The players are invited to gamble at Silverdisk Hall, but what exactly can be done is quite ambiguous. So I looked into some of my books a found a few games that could be offered to play. The most straightforward yet exciting option comes from the Gamemastery Guide section on gambling: Twentybone.

Also I remembered that the first book of the Second Darkness AP includes a gambling hall as well, but lists four games that are played in the hall and how to run them. They can easily be reskinned for other settings and could be used in Silverdisk Hall to make it really feel like a gambling hall and not a waste of time.

For reference, in the Gamemastery Guide, Twentybone and suggestions for gambling rules are on pages 240-241. In the first book of Second Darkness, Shadow in the Sky, the games are listed on pages 57-59.

Silver Crusade

I do appreciate that as well - I had gone over the gambling hall section last night and wondered just what to do. I'll go ahead and take a look at the Gamemastery Guide for Gambling. That should come in handy when they get there. I'd like for them to have something to do besides just a nameless game of rolling a die.

So far, it looks to be a party of the following -
Gnomish Cleric
Android Gunslinger
Human Barbarian (Savage Technologist)
Human Ranger (Maybe)
And one of the players is as of yet undecided

Again though, I do appreciate your help Kot.

Liberty's Edge

You may consider upping the difficulty if you have a fifth player, as Adventure Paths typically assume four characters with a 15 point buy. Making it a 20 point buy will not break the game, but if you have 5 players you should consider keeping it at 15 point buy.

If the players still handle themselves very well and the game seems like it's getting too easy, the advanced template can be a great friend to have. It changes little about the creature while making it much more potent, and this should be used with a bit of caution.

Liberty's Edge

I would also be careful with the Blindhelm, which is probably the fourth encounter they will face.

I had half the party blinded out, and then some lucky crits almost landed a character in the deadpool (as it is, thanks to the Crit cards, he was permanently blinded and at 2 hp). And this is 6 characters @ 25 pts. A 15 point buy character would have had a bad day...


As long as you ignore the 'Should be level x by this point' warnings and divide loot and XP normally you should be in good shape as far as balance is concerned. I'm currently running it at 6 characters with 20 point buy that way and they are generally about 1 level behind what's recommended.

Also, Birdfood...:
I noticed you have some humans in your party. He is one of the first fights the party is likely to have after they arrive in Scrapwall for book 2. He is a ranger with favored enemy (human), humanbane arrows, and a tactics block noting that he targets humans first. If he hears something is up and has time to prep with gravity bow, your humans will be in for a suprise.

Silver Crusade

I'm glad to hear that keeping balance should be somewhat easier than I thought - I was a little worried about balance there for a while.

And the advanced template - I'll certainly keep that in mind as well!

And that is something else that I enjoy, hearing about how people have done the combat encounters before, seeing how the monsters can be used and to what effect.

I've not actually gotten to the second book, reading it yet - but should the group enjoy the adventure, I think that we'll continue it. I've had a veteran gamer - one that fondly remembered expedition to barrier peaks and was very happy to hear that this might be something in the same vein.


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I do recommend being a bit more generous with certain roleplay encounters. Several encounters give you a peaceful way out if you can provide a spellcasting service that level adjustment may put out of reach. You may want to consider allowing promise of payment in certain cases.

Example:
In book 2 there is a Xill who will happily hand you her loot and leave you alone if you can send her back home. An appropriately leveled Cleric can potentially cast the spell, however if you are running 1 level under expected, you may or may not quite be there yet. I allowed my group to use an NPC in town that they had befriended to get a scroll from and compensated them in some loot adjustments for the price.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Book Three

Spoiler:
Ilarris Zeleshi is a great NPC to torment your players with. She is very good at deception so she should have a good chance to lie to your players and perhaps misdirect them towards another as being the spy. She is also very vindictive so if they do uncover her she will be motivated to do them harm, though likely not directly.
In my game the PCs suspected her but she talked her way out of a fight and then escaped. Since they had discussed their origins in Torch she made her way there and talked Val Baine into coming with her to join the Technic League. This will lead to increased motivation to infiltrate the Technic League and boy do my PCs want to kill Ilarris now.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Suggestion

Spoiler:
Since you have an android PC one thing I suggest (which I wish I had done) is have the body that the android PC is using actually be the remains of Cassandalee (or if it is a male android change Cassandalee into a male android). It would still allow Cassandalee to be the AI (since in the neurocam she downloaded her earlier consciousness) and the PC (since when androids "die" the can reboot and a new consciousness/soul takes over). I could imagine the confrontation with Hellion would be interesting, he could call the android PC sister/brother and say that "Unity has been searching for you". You would just have to remember that where they normally find the destroyed remains of Cassandalee in book 3 that it wouldn't be there, so perhaps they could watch a video in the security office of Cassandalee dying in the room and then some time later rising back up. This would mean there were some further incarnations between Cassandalee's death and your PC's birth.

Silver Crusade

Well, I think it went well - they were willing to sit through countless hours of the game! It got kicked off with a fantastic start - really great adventure path!

We actually ended up with the following party -
Female Android Gunslinger (Techslinger)
Male Human Barbarian (Savage Technologist)
Female Human Fighter
Male Gnome Cleric (Desna)
Male Elven Ranger

But it was a great session, the party I think enjoyed encountering monsters that were utterly alien and different, that and I changed the description of most of the monsters slightly to vex the players that have read the monster manual. Most of the problems we ran into stemmed from me getting tired and forgetting a few rules.

One of my favorite parts had to be when the party wouldn't let Sef go down and back into the hole with her tribe until they went down and to see if they could find anything. So they sent down the Gnome Cleric on a rope. This was after the party had dealt with Jazvit - with one shot from the Ranger - a critical hit that killed him instantly. So, while the cleric was down in the whole, hanging precariously from the rope, he started hearing laughter as one of Jazvit's kin leaped at him from the dark grabbed hold of the rope above him. A fight ensued and the creature almost broke the rope, whilst the barbarian kept swinging the rope to the sides trying to shake it off and the gunslinger kept trying to shoot the beast off the rope! Now the gnome has a complex when he hears mischievous laughter.

My only concern was the parties eagerness to keep going and attempt to delve through the whole dungeon in one go. They felt that time was a major issue and pressing in the search for Khonnir. I had to hint strongly to go back to town, rest and level, which they were thankful for when they ran into the Undead Menaces later in part three.

All in all, great adventure and I really enjoyed it. Again, I greatly appreciate the advice of everyone here.

Sovereign Court

I'm at about three thirds of book one now, and I've noticed the same as you: while the party is after Khonnir Baine, they're pushing forward very fast. It makes sense, it's presented as a limited-time rescue mission, not a leisurely grind. They got all the way to the kasatha skeletons before they had to retreat; in a single adventuring day they fought 4x EL 1 and 3x EL 2. Now this was a 5-PC 2opt party, but still that's kinda badass.

Hethuath gave them a hard time, and they didn't activate the lighting in the dome. Instead they pressed on to the science level after resting (for less than Hethuath's rejuvenation time). The science level is quite tough for a L2 party, especially the Hardness 10 robot with repair drone backup. If I'd run the robots smarter it would've been hopeless.

But with Khonnir in tow they went back, and ran into Hethuath. My players were quite dismayed about that, although they could've seen it coming, since they'd already run into rejuvenated skeletons. At that point I ended the session with a cliffhanger and then work came up and I had to postpone the next session twice *wince*.

I solved it by using a chase scene modeled on Kaava Quarry; basically everyone working together to escape from Hethuath. In town they discussed things with Joram Kyte (who is spending his afternoons in a beach chair next to the lake reading novels and waiting for them to crawl out all bloodied and in need of healing). He told them how to kill juju zombies, so next time they went down they cut him to pieces.

My players really liked getting in their revenge: after the extremely hard first fight and getting chased the second time, beating him through thorough preparation the third time was very satisfying.

They'd been worried how long their safe passage agreement with the skulks would last, worried they'd be attacked while wounded from one of their forays perhaps. But instead I eventually had the skulks ask them for lots of rope, and explain they wanted to go back to the Darklands. My players liked that outcome: tying up loose ends and finding that you can also get things done in this AP without having to fight everything.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My party also dealt with the skulks - they're seasoned gamers, and prefer to talk to the encounters, just on the off chance they don't have to fight. The party's rogue/face made the initial contact, and was in the process of brokering a deal between the surface and the skulks when they beat Sanvil Trett and knocked him unconscious. He offered to give them what he knew in return for his life, and rather than let him go, the party decided to ask the skulks to hold him while they finished their exploration of the caves. He critically succeeded on the check, and they lived up to their bargain. (As it happens, they would have taken Trett if he failed, and killed him at their earliest convenience, claiming that he "tried to escape." Chaotic Evil captors are jerks that way.)


Right now, I'm running the first adventure with a party of mercenaries.

When they accepted the invitation to Silver Disk Halls, they attacked the dice dealer and several bouncers when they suspected that the game was rigged. This got the city guard's involved and the party is accused of murder and assault. However, Sanvil Trett (in exchange for a favor), talked the council into allowing them to continue and explore the caverns below. Right now, the party's goal is to bring Khonnir back alive in exchange for leniency.

The day before, when the party heard about Sanvil, they hired him as muscle on the spot. The first part of the cave was rough for them and they felt that they needed a fourth man. So my other concern is party balance with a 3-PC group that's not optimized for damage. Plus, I'm new at DMing, so I lack experience with balancing these things.

My advice, from my mistakes, as a DM, if you're going to run the Silver Disk session, make sure you enforce a no-weapon policy. Also, if the party is more neutral-minded, then be ready when they retaliate against petty slights.


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I cast thread necromancy!

If anybody reads this: I'm in quite the pickle. My players are stubborn and refuse to kneel before the entrance into Hellion's domain in the second part of the adventure. Any ideas how I could allow them a way in?
They thought of bringing Whiskifiss' rust monster to disintegrate the doors but it's described as him being the only one who can handle the thing, so they would have to ask him. So they did. And failed. Maybe Whiskifiss will just accompany them even though they failed the diplomacy check miserably cuz I'm running out of options. There's no other entrance.
Should I make one up? It shouldn't be so easy though imho.
Maybe I should make them do a strength check the next time Hellion casts the black miasma to see if they can keep their composure. If they fail, the characters drop to their knees? I'm at a loss here.


In54nity wrote:

I cast thread necromancy!

If anybody reads this: I'm in quite the pickle. My players are stubborn and refuse to kneel before the entrance into Hellion's domain in the second part of the adventure. Any ideas how I could allow them a way in?
They thought of bringing Whiskifiss' rust monster to disintegrate the doors but it's described as him being the only one who can handle the thing, so they would have to ask him. So they did. And failed. Maybe Whiskifiss will just accompany them even though they failed the diplomacy check miserably cuz I'm running out of options. There's no other entrance.
Should I make one up? It shouldn't be so easy though imho.
Maybe I should make them do a strength check the next time Hellion casts the black miasma to see if they can keep their composure. If they fail, the characters drop to their knees? I'm at a loss here.

I don't remember the requirement to kneel. Is this at the arena? If the PCs have earned enough scrapworth, they should be invited into the arena to face Helskarg, and thus into Hellion's domain.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

RedRobe wrote:
In54nity wrote:

I cast thread necromancy!

If anybody reads this: I'm in quite the pickle. My players are stubborn and refuse to kneel before the entrance into Hellion's domain in the second part of the adventure. Any ideas how I could allow them a way in?
They thought of bringing Whiskifiss' rust monster to disintegrate the doors but it's described as him being the only one who can handle the thing, so they would have to ask him. So they did. And failed. Maybe Whiskifiss will just accompany them even though they failed the diplomacy check miserably cuz I'm running out of options. There's no other entrance.
Should I make one up? It shouldn't be so easy though imho.
Maybe I should make them do a strength check the next time Hellion casts the black miasma to see if they can keep their composure. If they fail, the characters drop to their knees? I'm at a loss here.

I don't remember the requirement to kneel. Is this at the arena? If the PCs have earned enough scrapworth, they should be invited into the arena to face Helskarg, and thus into Hellion's domain.

On page 39 of Lords of Rust, Hellion demands that the heroes kneel before his image on the monitor (and then they have to endure an Unholy Blight).

The doors to the Atrium are kept locked at all times, page 41 of Lords of Rust. On page 37, it does give the Disable Device DC (a daunting 35) to unlock the doors, and it presumes either an E-Pick or Technologist.

So, if the party's rogue doesn't have a net modifier of +15, they cannot get in otherwise.


Lord Fyre wrote:

On page 39 of Lords of Rust, Hellion demands that the heroes kneel before his image on the monitor (and then they have to endure an Unholy Blight).

The doors to the Atrium are kept locked at all times, page 41 of Lords of Rust. On page 37, it does give the Disable Device DC (a daunting 35) to unlock the doors, and it presumes either an E-Pick or Technologist.

So, if the party's rogue doesn't have a net modifier of +15, they cannot get in otherwise.

Disable Device +15 could be from +4 Dexterity bonus + 6 skill ranks + 3 class skill + 2 white e-pick.

My party lacked a rogue; however, the gunslinger had Disable Device as a class skill from her Local Ties campaign trait and was a Technologist. In my game I allowed Aid Another from another party member with the Technologist feat, some ranks in Disable Device, and his own e-pick.

Room S6, Kulgara’s Quarters, contains a green e-pick (+4), which will make the lockpicking easier. My party encountered Kulgara early in the Scrapmaster’s Arena. Thus, if all In54nity's party lacks is a good e-pick, have Kulgara encounter them outside. She could be returning from an errand where she carried her green e-pick, encounter the party in the Excavator Atrium, and become enraged that they are not giving proper respect to Hellion.

If In54nity's party has adamantine axes or pickaxes, then they can chop the glaucite doors open.

If In54nity's party lacks both the proper Disable Device skills and proper adamantine weapons, then they can retreat. Have them approach Redtooth. She has +14 to Disable Device, can plausibly use her contacts to get her hands on a black (+1) e-pick, and plausibly claim she learned to pick technological locks even without the Technologist feat (something similar to Local Ties sentence: "In addition, you are treated as if you possessed the Technologist feat for the purposes of resolving checks associated with that skill.") Pray that they do better on their diplomacy this time.

I had added two other entrances to the section S cavern areas for versimitude. The dark folk had a tunnel off of the S7 cavern, and their tunnel network reached to other areas on the surface. Draigs the ettin had her own private entrance from area M to her nest in the S12 Great Cavern. However, dumping the party directly into the latter half of section S would make them skip too many encounters. If In54nity adds a private entrance to Draigs' home, then he should close off the tunnel between S11 and S12.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Another radical idea would be to lower the required Disable Device DCs.


Lord Fyre wrote:
Another radical idea would be to lower the required Disable Device DCs.

I surveyed the locks in the Androffan equipment:

Page 24 of Fires of Creation says about the doors on the ship beneath Torch, "A successful DC 20 Disable Device check is needed to pick a brown lock, DC 25 to pick a black lock, and DC 30 to pick a white lock."
Page 28 of Fires of Creation says the red-access locked door to the Habitat Controls is broken and can be opened by any access card.
Page 34 of Lords of Rust gives Disable Device DC 30 for the door to the Bridge (P5) of the haunted wreck.
Page 37 of Lords of Rust gives Disable Device DC 35 for most doors in the excavator.
Page 45 of Lords of Rust gives Disable Device DC 40 for the green-access door to the Central Processor room (S3).
Page 45 of Lords of Rust gives Disable Device DC 40 for the locked cabinet in Kulgara’s Quarters (S7).
Page 14 of The Choking Tower gives Disable Device DC 30 for the doors in the Aurora.
Page 9 of The Divinity Drive says about the doors in Secondary Engineering, "most of the doors on this deck can be opened
with a gray access card (Disable Device DC 35)." The airlock doors are orange access, Disable Device DC 55.
Page 11 of The Divinity Drive gives blue access (Disable Device DC 50) to the Engineering Monorail Station.
Page 13 of The Divinity Drive gives Disable Device 60 to the Shuttle Hangar blast doors (A16). These doors are supposed to be unopenable to 15th-level characters despite being in the first section, because the final boss is behind them. (And this forum records that some persistent parties opened them regardless and were killed.)

I see a clear pattern for access-card locks:
Brown access lock Disable Device DC 20 (brown access card costs 3 gp),
Black access lock Disable Device DC 25 (black access card costs 10 gp),
White access lock Disable Device DC 30 (white access card costs 40 gp),
Gray access lock Disable Device DC 35 (gray access card costs 90 gp),
Green access lock Disable Device DC 40 (green access card costs 160 gp),
Red access lock Disable Device DC 45 (red access card costs 250 gp),
Blue access lock Disable Device DC 50 (blue access card costs 360 gp),
Orange access lock Disable Device DC 55 (orange access card costs 490 gp),
Prismatic access lock Disable Device DC 60 (prismatic access card costs 1,000 gp).

The Androffan color rank system is mysterious, but I think it corresponds to Pathfinder levels: brown is 1st level, black is 3rd level, white is 5th level, gray is 7th level, green is 9th level, red is 11th level, blue is 13th level, orange is 15th level, and prismatic is 17th level.

Thus, the doors on the excavator are 7th-level gray-access doors. Regular spaceships, such as the haunted wreck and the Aurora, tend to have white-access doors. The Divinity is the flagship of the fleet and can also serve as a warship, so its default is gray access (Disable Device DC 35).

I have no idea why a large piece of mining equipment would have higher security than a regular spaceship and the same security as the flagship, so dropping the door locks down to white access (Disable Device DC 30) or black access (Disable Device DC 25) is perfectly plausible.


Thanks for all the input!


I know this is an old thread, but what about just breaking down the doors instead of picking them? That's pretty much what adamantine weapons are for.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Yqatuba wrote:
I know this is an old thread, but what about just breaking down the doors instead of picking them? That's pretty much what adamantine weapons are for.

Or any left over explosives after they took down the receiver array.

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