Summon Monster loot card


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


It says "for your combat check", use the highest difficulty of the drawn monster.

What if you're using it against a monster like a harpy, that has a Wisdom check to defeat, not a Combat check?

thanks


You can't use it in that situation. No different than you couldn't use a Longsword against the Harpy either.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Man, it's not often that I contradict Hawkmoon... but in this case, all we care about is the highest difficulty of the drawn monster, not the type of check that's associated with it.

Sovereign Court

I don't think that's what was meant Vic.

The Summon Monster spell says to use it for your combat check, like weapons and combat spells do. Kreniigh was asking if that meant you couldn't use it on a non-combat check against a monster, like the Siren (I think that was the Wisdom monster).

Basically the same question as "Can I use a Longsword on a Wisdom check to defeat a monster".


Right. You play Summon Monster when you're making a combat check; you can't use it on non-combat checks such as Harpy.


I think the confusion partly comes from the fact that Harpy was the example. The Harpy has a Combat check to defeat, so you can use Summon Monster for that. It also requires a before the encounter (aka before you act) Wisdom check, which you can not use Summon Monster for.

I think though, Kreniigh probably was thinking of the Siren, like Andrew said. Siren is what I was thinking of too when I answered. We wouldn't be the first people to confuse Siren with Harpy.

But I think perhaps Vic misread the question as if it were asking "If I am making a combat check and play Summon Monster and the monster I draw from the box has a Wisdom check to defeat, what happens?" In that case, yeah, it doesn't matter what words are on the drawn monster, just the greatest number in the orange circle near the upper right corner. But you can only play Summon Monster when you are attempting a Combat check.

So, to be clear. You can use Summon Monster against the Harpy's combat check, just like you can use a Longsword against the Harpy's combat check. But you can't use Summon Monster or the Longsword against the Siren's Wisdom check.


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Hawkmoon269 wrote:
We wouldn't be the first people to confuse Siren with Harpy.

Forget about "the harpies have wings and sirens have fishtails", that's just legends. The one sure way not to confuse is by listening to them. If you want to flee it's a harpy, if you want to stay it's a siren.

Some human women even have the "Sirpy" archetype. You know that when you want at the same time to flee and stay.
Some sirpies even have the "Chaos" archetype. You know that when you change your mind about fleeing or staying every 10 seconds (I have a couple of those at home).

Chaos Sirpy
Chaos Sirpy cannot be evaded (don't ask)
Before you act, succeed at a Diplomacy 8 check. If your are a male character, the difficulty of the check is increased by twice the adventure number.
If you succeed, put the Chaos Sirpy on top a random another location and move to that location, then end your turn.
If you failed, select one of your skill dice that is not 1d4. It is now 1d4 until the end of the scenario. Then if any character discards 3 blessing, remove the Chaos Sirpy from the game, else shuffle it back in the location deck it came from.


Argl. This question actually came up when we were fighting Silas Vekker in RotR6, but when I typed out the question, I looked back into the pool of monsters to find something less specific, and I don't know why*, but I chose Siren but typed Harpy.

I assume from Vic's answer that the summoned monster's difficulty acts against the Wisdom check to defeat Silas. Or a Siren.

thanks

* I lie; we have a 3 month old baby and it's turning our brains to mush.


Kreniigh wrote:
I assume from Vic's answer that the summoned monster's difficulty acts against the Wisdom check to defeat Silas. Or a Siren.

I wouldn't assume that, just in this case. I'm pretty sure Vic was misunderstanding the question when he contradicted me. So, as much as I hate even more to contradict Vic, trust me, you can't use Summon Monster for you check to defeat Silas or your check to defeat a Siren.

Vic thought you were saying "What if I'm making a combat check and play Summon Monster and the monster I draw from the box is has a highest difficulty of a check that isn't Combat?" I'm sure when he comes back by the forum, he'll clarify that. Though he also makes the FAQ so he could decide just for kicks to errata the card and remove "Combat" from the power.

Congrats on the baby.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Hawkmoon269 wrote:

But I think perhaps Vic misread the question as if it were asking "If I am making a combat check and play Summon Monster and the monster I draw from the box has a Wisdom check to defeat, what happens?" In that case, yeah, it doesn't matter what words are on the drawn monster, just the greatest number in the orange circle near the upper right corner. But you can only play Summon Monster when you are attempting a Combat check.

So, to be clear. You can use Summon Monster against the Harpy's combat check, just like you can use a Longsword against the Harpy's combat check. But you can't use Summon Monster or the Longsword against the Siren's Wisdom check.

All that is correct. Never should have doubted Hawkmoon!


Well damn. The Ezren/Valeros team is going to have to progress past Silas with an asterix. We just don't have the Wisdom check for it, and the baby is crying...

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