"Summon and Acquire" as "When Closing" instruction


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


IN WoR, the location "Manor House" has the following "When Closing" instruction: "Summon and acquire a random ally".

Does this mean you need to succeed at the check to acquire the random ally, or do you just put the random ally in your hand and close the location?

Thanks!

Grand Lodge

Since it says "Summon and acquire a random ally" instead of "Add a random ally to your hand", I would think it means that you need to succeed at acquiring the ally in order to close the location.

There are similar "When Closing" conditions in S&S.


Right, it isn't instructing you to automatically acquire it, anymore than a card that said "summon and defeat" would be instructing you to automatically defeat the summoned card. You must succeed at acquiring it to close the location.


awesome - Thanks!!!

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Rulebook wrote:
The When Closing section on some locations requires you to summon and defeat (or acquire) a card. Summon and encounter it; if you do not defeat (or acquire) it, the location is not closed.


A follow up on this, since my brain is in 'exact rules' mode at the moment. A little imp in my head asked me the following questions and I don't have a good answer for it:

"When you summon a card, you are supposed to put it back in the box after you are done with it unless the card doing the summoning explicitly states otherwise. So, when you 'summon and acquire' a boon to close a location, is the 'acquired' boon put in your hand or put back in the box?

As a follow-up, if Balazar has to 'summon and defeat' a monster, can he use his power to put the defeated summoned monster in his hand, or should it be put back in the box?"

The imp in my head cheerfully points out that the answer to the first question seems like it should be 'Of course it goes in your hand' while the answer to the second question seems like it should be 'Nope, it was summoned, so it goes back in the box.' Then the imp cackles gleefully while declaring that the answers to both questions should be exactly the same.

Can anyone help me parse out a resolution? Or at least explain why one of my seeming answers does not really make sense? Thanks for your help in rules imp squishing!


I've been wondering the same thing about Balazar. Just never remembered to jump on here and ask.


Cards have precedence over the rulebook. So a location telling you to acquire a card overrules the rule to return the card to the box, and Balazar telling you to put the monster in your hand does likewise.

edit: interestingly, locations have higher precedence than characters, so if for some reason a condition to close was worded as "summon and encounter a monster, and then return it to the box", Balazar couldn't have it.


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WotR Rulebook p15 wrote:
After evading a summoned card or resolving the encounter with it, never put it anywhere other than back in the box unless the card that caused you to summon it instructs you otherwise.

When a location says "summon and acquire" the card that instructed you to summon a card tells you to do something with it, acquire it by succeeding at the check to acquire it. And acquiring it means putting it in your hand. So you are being instructed otherwise by the summoning card.

For Balazar, the card that instructed you to summon a monster isn't Balazar's card, so his card can't instruct you to do something different.

So, no, he can't add summoned monsters to his hand.


Riff Conner wrote:
Cards have precedence over the rulebook. So a location telling you to acquire a card overrules the rule to return the card to the box, and Balazar telling you to put the monster in your hand does likewise.

Never is a critical term, and trumps all other considerations. Because the general instruction is a "never" instruction, ONLY the summoning card is allowed to have an exception to it. :)


Ahh, I missed the 'never'. Good eye.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:

[...]

When a location says "summon and acquire" the card that instructed you to summon a card tells you to do something with it, acquire it by succeeding at the check to acquire it. [...]

If not-this-Mike didn't want you to keep the boon, he would have written something like "summon a random boon from the box. Succeed at a check to acquire that boon to close this location.""


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Riff Conner wrote:
Ahh, I missed the 'never'. Good eye.

The Tyranomancer role for Balazar has a consolation prize for defeating summoned monsters. I believe it exists for this reason.

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