Loot - New GM screwup


Rise of the Runelords


Alright, so after playing two sessions, I decided to try my hand at GMing as the GM was moving to Germany. I bought RotRL and started brushing up on rules, etc. However, I neglected to look into what to do with loot and started handing out loot to the players, perhaps too freely. The PCs demanded payment to watch over the town while the Sheriff went to get reinforcements. The group likes battle and I felt the Shayliss, Monster in the Closet, etc. section was a bit lacking in session 2, so I mixed in some Dwarven miners going missing that they investigated and stole the unconscious Dwarf's GP (Sin points!), etc.

Anyway, they are saving up to buy a wand of Cure Light Wounds and they almost have enough money (and we're just entering the Glass & Wrath section). I have 7 PCs, but not everyone makes it to each session (being an adult and all with kids), we just suspend disbelief and roll with it. They each received 50 from Aldern, so that's 350 alone. I'm thinking I need to reduce their gold somewhat and am looking for advice/feedback so that they aren't swimming in gold.

I was thinking of having the dwarves they stole from confront the PC Dwarf (whom is keeping all of the PCs gold) and stealing the gold back, plus a penalty. I would play up the kinship of being fellow a fellow dwarf and could you go along with that, etc.

Or I could let them get the wand, beef up the encounters so they take damage and make them use the wand. I've been lenient with healing and not strictly abiding by 1 point of healing per night (they are level 1 until after the Glassworks).

With 6 PCs in the next session, I definitely think I need to had more goblins to the Glassworks and maybe another Vargouille and a few sinspawn to the CoW.


The reality of the game is that there is feast and famine with loot.

Having a cure wand won't break the game, it will probably only serve to keep them alive through those swingy early levels. They won't need to retreat and rest as often, so actually it will make the game run more smoothly.

What level are they now and about how much money do they have on average? The character wealth by level table can be found on this page.

Remember, that's just a target. It is OK if they are significantly over or under -- that's a cue to give more or less rewards. It doesn't significantly affect the outcome unless you're way off for a long period of time (and even that can be a fun game!)

It's quite possible that they're on target, and even if they're not things will balance out in the long run. Runelords is a LONG game -- the solution for any balance issue like this is to wait.

Similarly, if the players are cruising through encounters for whatever reason, the simplest thing is to just hold back on XP/Levels until they're suitably challenged, and then resume.


IrishRenegade wrote:
With 6 PCs in the next session, I definitely think I need to had more goblins to the Glassworks and maybe another Vargouille and a few sinspawn to the CoW.

If the ratio between PCs and enemies is at or close to 1:1, then that's pretty good. If adding more beasties puts you closer to 2:1, then you might be better off enhancing the existing monsters instead of adding more. Max HP, and the advanced template if you need it.

One of the best things you can do when scaling up the opposition is to start with the the un-modified number of enemies, and see how the first round goes. If the PCs are completely unharmed, send in reinforcements. This won't always be necessary.

Grand Lodge

Don't worry about them getting a wand of cure light wounds.


Ok, thanks for the replies. Being a new GM I'm spending time trying to learn the rule sets so things run smoothly and everyone has a good time and made a bigger deal of this than I should have.

I'm running Rise of the Runelords and didn't realize that the loot is doled at during certain encounters. The campaign book tells me exactly when everyone levels up, so I don't need to track and count XP. The PCs are level 1 and are well within the WBL charts.

My plan was to add reinforcements if the PCs blew through the original guys, so I'm glad I was on the right path.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Adding PC levels to goblins works well. Making a couple sorcerers or alchemists (goblin pyros squared!) could really spice things up. Goblin dogs. Pet giant lizards or vermin.

Boss monsters: hobgoblins, bugbears (big goblins!), ogres, more humans.

Regarding treasure, IMHO the best loot is the mysterious and magical kind. Hints of ancient Thassilon. Sin-focused items that have both a beneficial effect and a sin-related side-effect. There aren't nearly enough of this sort of thing in the official AP.


Don't expose the party to the horror of ogres until Book 3/HMM. It will have more of an impact then ...


All - Thanks for the advice. I brought in some reinforcements, maybe 5 extra goblins total in the Glassworks and no extra baddies in the CoW, but thanks to terrible rolls on their part regarding crit misses (we're using the random crit miss generator), the party has already used half of the charges on the Wand. The Barbarian was kissed by the Vargouille, but made his save and the Monk drank some of the Waters of Lamashtu.

I have a couple of quick questions regarding Thistletop (basic GM questions):

1) If the PCs approach by boat, it is a DC 15 climb. In the skills climbing section it states that you move at 1/4 speed, so a PC with movement of 20 would move 5 on a successful check. So the PC would need to make 16 successful checks to make it up the wall? One failed check and they would fall all the way down, unless they get lucky with catching themselves or another PC catches them.

2) How does hacking through the briars work? I see that it has a hardness of 1 and 40 hp - no DC for the PCs to roll against? They just do damage with each attack?


Small note: There is a little thing called "Action Economy" that you need to keep in mind. You see, one powerful victim - er, I mean villain fighting against four heroes is going to lose. Sure, he might take out one or two, but he only gets a Swift, a Move, and a Standard action. Each player has that.

Now consider this: you have seven players. This is nearly double what's recommended. If you had them roll for stats instead of using a 15-point build, they may very well be stronger than intended (though if they are fairly new to DND 3.5 or Pathfinder the higher stats are not a big deal at first). Thus you will want to more often than not double the number of minions they are facing. With "mini-boss" and "boss" encounters, add a couple mooks to help increase the ability of the powerful antagonist to hurt the players without overpowering the enemy.

The suggestion of adding class levels to goblins and the like will not work. Here's why. If you have three level 2 Warrior Goblin warriors (instead of level 1), each goblin has double the hit points and can hit slightly more often... but still only gets one attack each. One action each. So ultimately the encounter is less powerful despite being double the combat rating. If instead you doubled the number of goblins, you have twice as many actions. Fights take longer... but it allows the players to have a wider array of targets, keeps them from ganging up on foes to quickly drop them, and makes things more interesting.

Good luck. :) And don't worry about a little extra gold. Low-level characters are squishy. A little extra now will help them survive. At higher levels? It won't matter to have a few extra gold over their level. And purchases like wands of curing help draw that gold off.

Grand Lodge

1) Yes. Climb is one of those skills that while theoretically useful at early levels, can't let you reach the DCs you need reliably in order to truly accomplish objectives because you can never have more ranks in a skill than you do Hit Dice, and then once you can pull off something useful with it, your casters can cast Fly instead.

2) It's been a while since I've read through the first book, and I may be recalling a PFS scenario that had briars, but I think the players have to make a Reflex save to avoid damage from the briars when attacking it. Secondly, hitting an unattended object, which I'd argue is what the briar would be, it's an automatic hit. Don't forget that hacking through brush makes noise though, so something is bound to come investigate if they're wailing on the briars for multiple rounds.


Well, if they're "wailing" instead of "whaling", then they'll certainly be heard! :)


Don't forget about letting the characters take 10 on Climb skill checks (unless they're under fire from goblins or the like).

Assuming a L 3 character with at least Str 14 who has maxed out his Climb ranks (or less Str or skill ranks if it's a class skill), they should manage a DC 15 Climb check by taking 10 on it.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

There are ways to improve climbing. Removing armor helps a lot. Taking ten when not under fire makes a DC 15 check that much easier. Periodically pounding in pitons makes a sudden fall far less hazardous, and the sound would probable be drowned out by the sound of the crashing surf.

If the players are really clever, they'll get a boost up the first 20 feet with a long ladder.

And of course, once the first player is up, they should have a rope in place to bring the DC down to 5.

IIRC, there are also at least two sea-level entrances. Seems like there was something about a Bunyip... they just need to remember to bring some wattle and loudly declare their name is Bruce.


My first group of players decided to take out the bunyip first before tackling the cliffs of Thistletop proper, so as to avoid unecessary attacks while mucking around in a rowboat. So they bought a goat, fed it a sleeping poison (courtesy of the Pillbug in town), then killed it in its lair. Quite effective, and they got its loot too. :)


Always reward creativity.


BlingerBunny wrote:
Always reward creativity.

I beg to differ. Reward constructive creativity. But if the players are creatively stupid, punish it. For instance: Breaking a party in two, with each covering an exit of a building with a sizable number of bandits within it, and then further dividing the party by having one of them go onto the roof to cover the chimney to smoke out the enemy - please note, there had already been an alarm sounded when a trap was triggered, and while the enemy didn't find anything specific showing the PCs were there, they had been woken.

All of this during nighttime and during a snowstorm creating a large area of difficult terrain. The number of foes inside the building are not known but were enough to take out a defended caravan, and the bandits have fae working with them.

If the enemy all leaves through one exit, it would take two to three turns of movement for the second group to reach them. This would give the mass of bandits time to gang up and eliminate the first group, resulting in at least the deaths of half the group. They then would turn and in a mass wipe out the remaining half of the group - not including the party member on the snowy roof.

Sure, trying to smoke out the enemy is creative thinking. Splitting the party in an environment of difficult terrain and during conditions where archery is near impossible is not. Why should a party be rewarded for stupid creativity?


Errr, whats the reward for looting the caravan
pretty sure thats right this time

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