Dreamscarred Press Announces: Path of War Expanded!


Product Discussion

551 to 600 of 1,152 << first < prev | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | next > last >>

1 person marked this as a favorite.

And the subscription is up, in the usual spots! ^_^ I'm glad Harbi is finally out of layout and lookin' good in its new format.


I posted this on the Giant in the Playground forums as well, but the posts were buried pretty quickly in the thread. Thus, I wanted to post that point here as well:

As written, Warlock's Mirror, Equivocate, and Unholy Mirror Stance can be used to effectively duplicate ally buff spells as they are cast. Equivocate and Unholy Mirror Stance also has the benefit of being able to duplicate personal-range spells, which are normally balanced by virtue of not being able to be cast on others.

At low levels, Equivocate and Silvered Mirror Stance this means that buffs like Righteous Might and Overland Flight can become shared with the party, and Equivocate at least grabs you all of the wizard and cleric's personal spells for yourself. At high levels, you can use Unholy Mirror Stance to share things as (possibly Mythic Enduring) Divine Vessel and Shapechange. A Shapechange shared with the entire party using Unholy Mirror Stance (designate the sorceress casting it as an 'opponent' for that one round) is exceedingly powerful.

Warlock's Mirror can be used against an ally to triple very powerful, single-target debuff spells like Chains of Light. It can also be used to share powerful high-level buffs like Nine Lives, thus using only one high level slot to buff the entire party with immortality.

Finally, all of these have the potential to copy inherit stat bonuses from Wish; this means that two people (Equivocate), three people (Warlock's Mirror), or the entire party (Unholy Mirror Stance) can get +5 inherit in everything for just a single person's investment the moment that "Wish" comes online.

Because Warlock's Mirror affects maneuvers as well, a initiate can, in theory, give other people stances by getting cursed himself, invoking the counter, and changing stances (since stances are maneuvers). This is currently not possible due to the 1 swift/turn limit, but needs to be made aware of in case if anything (looking at Riven Hourglass here) ever makes counters free or grants extra actions.

Finally, Warlock's Mirror can be used against a cursed ally to basically turn one of his attacks into a three-person AoE. If combined with Warder's extended defense (since the trait that swaps disciplines will be available with expanded), since Warlock's Mirror can also be used with individual attacks (which include attacks within a maneuver), you can turn full attacks and full arrow volleys into multi-target attacks by having the ally attack you, then redirecting it.


Just as a blanket question out there but has anyone played a straight up vanilla Mystic for any amount of time? I've done my own testing but of course there is a level of bias in that I know how I think it should be played but you all have more than proven ways to do things beyond my imagination's wildest thoughts. Mostly looking for some general feedback on how the chassis of the class is working out and how glyphs have worked out for you.

-X


quick question, I was looking at the stalker and the Disciplines on the PSRD and I think I've noticed that some of the disciplines have added or changed strikes and counters in them. For example the 2nd level counter Half gone from Veiled Moon. I honestly don't remember seeing that before the other day, am I wrong, just mistaken or has some of the POW2 stuff been slowly added to the srd?


kevinprimus wrote:
quick question, I was looking at the stalker and the Disciplines on the PSRD and I think I've noticed that some of the disciplines have added or changed strikes and counters in them. For example the 2nd level counter Half gone from Veiled Moon. I honestly don't remember seeing that before the other day, am I wrong, just mistaken or has some of the POW2 stuff been slowly added to the srd?

No, but some stuff from 1 has been missing, and the pages are also theoretically being cleaned up. The PoW section is still kinda...baaaad...but the folks there work mostly as volunteers and patience is needed. They have a big load.


And now, bards.

I could really use eyeballs and thoughts on the harmonize ability, as I am very worried about it.


Harmonize is going to get intensely huge.

A Rubato that buys a 15 Cha is looking at a score of around 24-26 when Harmonize comes online. That's effectively shifting the entire party 35-40% on the RNG for all defenses, and they can maintain it for about 14 rounds just off the tempo they start the fight with and tempo regeneration (though they probably don't want to do that because maneuver recovery). With Lingering Performance they regenerate tempo slightly faster than they need to use it.

Martial Performer is going to make skill check based maneuvers even more hilariously infallible in the hands of a Rubato.


Pretty good I think. I think the trading of spells for maneuvers, tempo, and useable songs that aren't inspire courage is very fair.

Harmonize should probably be toned down to something more fair, since it is a pretty big boost to saves. Perhaps based on 1/5 of your level instead of the initiation modifier.

Sczarni

Since tempo is not a limited resource in the same way that rouds of performance is, the cost for the huge boost provided by harmonize seems low. If it were limited to skill checks with maneuvers, to AC against attacks of op from moving as part of a maneuver, and on saves against maneuvers, it would still be huge, flavorfull, and quite more reazonable.


There's a new Stalker Archetype in the Archetypes Document. Some of the Stalker Arts included are appropriate for use with any stalker, specifically Bloodseeker, Lord of War, and Fear Monger.

Dark Archive

Oh man, a Strength-based 2H Stalker with access to Black Seraph? It's like Christmas!

-e-

Oh, wow. Is it intended that you can grab Fear Monger at level 2? I'm not complaining, but that seems super crazy good.


Seranov wrote:

Oh man, a Strength-based 2H Stalker with access to Black Seraph? It's like Christmas!

-e-

Oh, wow. Is it intended that you can grab Fear Monger at level 2? I'm not complaining, but that seems super crazy good.

Merry Christmas then!

Fear Monger might need to be level gated, although it doesn't remove the need for prerequisites. Would you mind testing it out for me and letting me know if it needs a level gate? PLEASE? :D

Dark Archive

I think it'd be easier to just tack on "You must meet the prerequisites for these feats" onto the end of the ability. Though, in practice, if you have access to Black Seraph you can get Black Seraph's Glare at level 1, and it's like Cornugon Smash but better. So I don't know, it's probably not a big deal?

While I've got you here, I might as well ask: Black Seraph's Glare IS supposed to act like Cornugon Smash and Enforcer, right? Just give you the chance to make Intimidate checks as a free action when you hit an enemy?


Yes that's exactly what Black Seraph's glare is supposed to do.

I don't need to tack on "you must meet the prerequisites" as that's the standard for Pathfinder. The exception is not needing to meet prerequisites. But I guess it could be put on there as reminder text.

Dark Archive

Yeah, you are right that that is the standard assumption, but it's something that's pretty commonly repeated.

Advanced Class Guide Bloodrager wrote:
At 6th level and every 3 levels thereafter, a bloodrager receives one bonus feat chosen from a list specific to each bloodline. The bloodrager must meet the prerequisites for these bonus feats.
Path of War Stalker wrote:
Combat Art A stalker that selects this art gains a bonus combat feat. The stalker must meet the prerequisites for selecting this feat. This art may be selected more than once.

For example. :)

That said, getting Cornugon Smash 3-5 levels early (as early as level 2 for a Human Stalker who picked Power Attack and Weapon Focus as his first feats) is unlikely to ruin anyone's game, and it very much fits the flavor of the archetype.


I'm curious, since psionics seems to fit the super-science theme only all too well, have you guys ever considered doing anything with the material found in the Technology Guide, ie sci-fi/technology flavored psionic stuff?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

We have a project underway, but with only the two of us, some things take time. :)

Dark Archive

Does that mean you need some help with the project?


Copypasta from an announcement I made on GitP but is relevant for all of you who don't frequent that forum.

Mystic and Zealot are going through some internal review at this time. Now seems as good a time as any to bring this up. Largely this is due to the fact that both classes have a lot of fat to trim and WAY too many moving parts. Zealot honestly is so full of options that I wouldn't know what to do with it, plus it has some identity issues it needs to work through. Mostly, we need to trim it down to something more manageable than a 14 page document that only just about it and the things it could potentially do. That's just too big for a base class that also relies on maneuvers as well. I've tasks Nova to get this cleaned up, and we should expect to see some significant changes. This may effect the level of power in the class - it should, as there wasn't a thing that it wasn't excellent at doing and it was because it had an overabundance of just... STUFF... that just made things TOO strong if you were willing to do your homework. We're not trying to remake wizard, amiright?

Mystic suffers from a malady of my own creation, where I added augmentation to Flux and that was the only thing that people really noticed to spend their animus on. Glyphs fell to the way side as dead weight largely due to the same reason why Zealot was unwieldy - too many moving parts. So trimming some fat and streamlining how Mystic will proceed from here. Flux won't feel like it's necessary for Mystic to function, and Flux augments will stick around for those who want to pick it up. Flux will NOT be getting free Tap Animus or free animus to just to float around however, despite the cries of feat taxes. It's not a feat tax at all - I put animus augments in and in now way changed any of the rest of the discipline's numbers. The discipline stood fine on its own without augments - the numbers were solid for a damage discipline, and it had a variety of neat abilities. I then added augments on top of it as candy for anyone who animus to augment the thing. So basically, you get a solid discipline without animus, or you can spend a feat and use Flux even better. Take that as you, call it a tax if you want to, but it's not. Just as Furious Focus makes Power Attack better, Tap Animus or Mystic levels makes Flux better. Expect to see more uses for animus with relation to maneuvers in the revision document.

Expect to see some revision documents for these coming soon.

-X

Sczarni

Any chance of the Zealot gettign a new recovery mechanic? Compared to all the other initiators it seems and plays tremendously boring.

Dark Archive

Frerezar wrote:
Any chance of the Zealot gettign a new recovery mechanic? Compared to all the other initiators it seems and plays tremendously boring.

Bah! I think it's fantastic! I love Aiding my pals in combat (especially when it'll give me neat perks on top of helping them be more effective) and being able to do it over the Collective is super cool, imo.

The Zealot is a lot less of a Warder-type area denial "tank", and is more of a support "tank", as far as I read it. Being able to help buff your friends with Missions, Aid Another and other stuff seems really interesting to me. I'm looking forward to playtesting a Discordant Crusader Zealot from level 1 within the next few days.

Sczarni

Aid another as a whole, as usefull as it might be, is a boring flat mechanical option. You could keep the intent and flavor of aiding another and still make the recovery mechanic more exciting.

Dark Archive

I suppose, but right now I imagine it's the Missions and Convictions that are most likely to change. A lot of the class' most powerful options show up in there (hello Destruction Mission's AoE maneuvers!) and they take up a very sizable portion of the class' word count.


The Stalker atchetypes level 2 ability is just a bit too good for dipping. It needs a line like the Kensai's limiting the bonus to class level.

Also Strength is the easiest stat to buff in Pathfinder and synergizes very well with size increases. I'd argue that Str to AC and Reflex is a far stronger feature than Dex to damage ever was, especially for free. It should trade for a class feature or at least be a stalker art.

Dark Archive

I threw together a level 7 Brutal Stalker with the Bushi template, and it doesn't seem particularly ridiculous.

You can see him here. In retrospect, I may just not be very good at building DPR-focused characters, so it's likely rather unimpressive.


Seranov wrote:

I threw together a level 7 Brutal Stalker with the Bushi template, and it doesn't seem particularly ridiculous.

You can see him here. In retrospect, I may just not be very good at building DPR-focused characters, so it's likely rather unimpressive.

I think what he wants is for Muscle Memory to have the kind of limiting text found here:

"a duelist adds 1 point of Intelligence bonus (if any) per duelist class level as a dodge bonus to her Armor Class"

Where it spaces the AC bonus out over a few levels instead of being some of the best 2 levels ever dipped for most barbarians and other light armor types.

Though I do agree that such a good ability should cost something. It saves Stalkers from having to take 2 feats to be dex reliant. The second level ability of combat insight.

Dark Archive

I'm not arguing that that isn't a good idea, I was simply speaking to the new archetype overall.


Sorry for misunderstanding. I do agree with that the archetype doesn't look crazy. Well, crazy fun, but not crazy overpowered.

Dark Archive

I wish I could play this one I just built. He's sort of Hitokiri Battousai Kenshin (but a tiefling!) in my head, and it'd likely be a ton of fun to play.


You know, I just built my Bushi to be Jetstream Sam for an Iron gods campaign. Gotta love what you can do with PoW huh?


Seranov wrote:

I threw together a level 7 Brutal Stalker with the Bushi template, and it doesn't seem particularly ridiculous.

You can see him here. In retrospect, I may just not be very good at building DPR-focused characters, so it's likely rather unimpressive.

Yeah the numbers seem to be about where they belong. I mean, the AC is a little bit high for a 2-handed character, but not in a way that's unacceptable and that stops mattering soon anyway.

I think the Brutal Stalker is a great archetype, just needs that little bit of wording Adam quoted and for the class feature to cost something.

I think pushing it to replace the level 1 Stalker Art would be perfect.

Dark Archive

That would prevent you from comboing it with Bushi, which I would not be partial to.

In the GitP thread, they said they tacked it on as a bonus because without it, the Stalker would be left with Light Armor and a tiny Natural Armor bonus, which would make him paste really quickly.


In that case make it replace the third level stalker Art, Second Level Combat insight, or his Dodge Bonus.


I'm just going to copy and paste myself from GitP where I answered this for Insain Dragoon already:

Muscle memory is far less game breaking than you give it credit for. I've had something like it in games I've run and played for a long time and never had any issues with it, whether it was a feat, a class feature or just a free thing that anyone got if they chose to use it. Your AC bonus is still capped by your armor, your reflex save is still just a reflex save. It's entirely defensive in nature.

It's funny to watch people argue that Dex to Damage should be a thing, to whatever degree they wish (I've seen it be entirely native to finesse weapons, like it is in 5e), but as soon as someone wants to give Strength the same benefits, people get all worried. It's not that powerful, no more or less than a high dex on a character with light armor proficiency and low reflex save.

In fact, it actually serves a secondary purpose, since it encourages brutal slayers to stay in light or no armor which helps them keep their stealth and mobility focus.


What time is it?

SURVEY TIME

We're starting work on PrCs for Path of War: Expanded. One thing I'd wanted to do personally was update two I'd made that had very positive reception: the Knights of the Fractured Prism and the Dukes of Last Light (yes, the tables are broken. No, I'm not going to fix them). However, both classes feature an unusual form of progression; instead of continuing to learn maneuvers from traditional disciplines, each gains seven maneuvers not available to those outside of the prestige class.

For homebrew that's fine, no guilt whatsoever there. But what would the thoughts be on such a mechanic being published in Path of War? Should they continue to gain psuedo-stances instead of a stance progression? Should I abandon the idea and make something new?


I must say, both of them seem pretty cool. Might pester my GM to pick up the second one even, but I'm not sure I'll get to that level. Now, if only the mechanics were int based ...

*Ahem*

Back on track - The custom stances feel flavourful and I think it would be workable.

Perhaps a little easier to access (both classes can be picked up at level 10, unless I missed something), since it is just cruel to hide such nice stuff at such a high level :P

Another option could be and make them some sort of add-on package similar to the Unleashed 'Multiclass' variant? Allows the stances and other key perks to be handed out at appropriate character levels.


Lessah wrote:

I must say, both of them seem pretty cool. Might pester my GM to pick up the second one even, but I'm not sure I'll get to that level. Now, if only the mechanics were int based ...

*Ahem*

Back on track - The custom stances feel flavourful and I think it would be workable.

Perhaps a little easier to access (both classes can be picked up at level 10, unless I missed something), since it is just cruel to hide such nice stuff at such a high level :P

Another option could be and make them some sort of add-on package similar to the Unleashed 'Multiclass' variant? Allows the stances and other key perks to be handed out at appropriate character levels.

Mixing "optional" systems into an already "optional" 3pp material might not be the best way to do that, you basically made it mandatory for a specific PrC. Also this isn't PFS legal material so a higher entry level isn't necessarily a bad thing. You character's career doesn't cap out at 12th level, so there is no reason to plan for sub 20 cap development wise.


Skylancer4 wrote:
Lessah wrote:
*
Mixing "optional" systems into an already "optional" 3pp material might not be the best way to do that, you basically made it mandatory for a specific PrC. Also this isn't PFS legal material so a higher entry level isn't necessarily a bad thing. You character's career doesn't cap out at 12th level, so there is no reason to plan for sub 20 cap development wise.

@optional - Hmm, I'm not sure you got my point. I meant that one might turn the entire PrC into a Variant Multiclass package - that way one can keep the special manoeuvres and hand them out with a minimum of fuzz as well as give access to key class abilities.

Or simply make them an archetype available for more then one class, similar to the Buccaneer and the others they are already designing.

@PrC level - Most Pathfinder PrCs can be entered at level 6 (The same wasn't true for 3.5) and I see no reason as to why this pair of cool classes should be locked away higher.

Dark Archive

Hmm... I like the Riven Hourglass. I would see using that discipline to create a character much after that of the Doctor, though what class to use is yet to be considered fully.

An investigator archetype that replaces alchemy and related abilities with maneuvers would be interesting and worth considering I feel.


Okay everyone!

Revised versions of Mystic and her archetypes are available here.

I'm keeping the original mystic up for a while as well for comparison, so I'd like your feedback on the revision as the "leaner and meaner" mystic.

-X


Lessah wrote:


@PrC level - Most Pathfinder PrCs can be entered at level 6 (The same wasn't true for 3.5) and I see no reason as to why this pair of cool classes should be locked away higher.

To be fair most PrCs are trash as well in PFRPG. The entire design philosophy for them was changed. Unless they are super specialized or just the only way to do things, they don't get used the vast majority of the time. PFRPG went through pains to reinforce character class progression, most PrCs now give up so much they aren't worth taking compared to base progression. Add into it, that again in PFS your character career is ending at 12, they needed to lower the entrance for any PrC they publish. The core rules are doing double duty here, created to function properly when operating under restrictions that PoW doesn't have (because any game PoW is in, wont be using PFS rules and limitations). They also made sure that said PrC gave up enough to make it a hard sell to take the PrC. We can't compare any PoW class to the fighter or similar tier class, we can't even compare them to 3.5 due to the changes in design philosophy.

They have a significant power boost, so a valid comparison is going to be to the classes of "higher tier" such as the casters. This means realisticly PoW PrCs need to take manuever level hits and such if they give any worthwhile abilities to be on "par" with what the current designs are. If they don't, they have no real drawback, no reason to not take them... Which is exactly why PFRPG changed the role and the design of PrCs in the first place. They are basically there for concepts that would require such drastic changes to the class, that archetypes couldn't handle them.


We're trying to change up some of how we do PrC's for this next book, and I'm developing some errata for the PrCs in the previous book as well. We're going with a more fighting style and aspects of disciplines that match up with that fighting style more this time.

Edit:
Also, wondering where all the traffic went on this thread? I used to get lots of posts from Paizo - did you all just stop wanting martial books over in this bend of the internet? Did we offend you? I know we can be kinda casual at times, but we try to make it so you're talking to friends and not some soulless guy. So... what's up?

-X


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I think a lot of us moved to GiTP, I know I did for the purpose of PoW:E. That's probably why the page count over there has been shooting up so high.

Also people are a lot more skittish of potentially OP stuff on the Paizo boards, so feedback on this board for overtuned stuff is more likely to leave a bad impression on John Doe who's curious about this book.

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Well I am still interested in this. When I have money I do plan on buying any Path of War books available and use in my campaigns.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
ErrantX wrote:

We're trying to change up some of how we do PrC's for this next book, and I'm developing some errata for the PrCs in the previous book as well. We're going with a more fighting style and aspects of disciplines that match up with that fighting style more this time.

Edit:
Also, wondering where all the traffic went on this thread? I used to get lots of posts from Paizo - did you all just stop wanting martial books over in this bend of the internet? Did we offend you? I know we can be kinda casual at times, but we try to make it so you're talking to friends and not some soulless guy. So... what's up?

-X

I know around here schools have been doing proms and exams are coming up. So depending on the demographic (not trying to stereotype!) you could have lost a good portion there. Also a few of the more popular MMO's have had events going on (SWtoR is doing 12x class story xp, Tera is doing a leveling event as well with their Steam launch and new class release, TSW just put out their issue 11 pack).


Okay, because I was afraid we'd offended some of our friends here and I'd be honestly sad if we had alienated some folks. I know that some of us as designers have strong opinions on where things go, citing specifically some math problems moderately recently, but I am hoping that did not quell interest in this product. Hopefully with summer coming and with Harbinger released officially and I think Mystic is slotting up next, we'll have a little more buzz on this site.

-X


Er, just a question if I understood this right?

A Harbinger, using Martial Tradition to gain access to Broken Blade, using Tenebrous Reach, on a subsequent round can use Adamantine Knuckles as Swift action, Omen-Walk short-range teleport right into the middle of enemies, then strike with Spinning Flurry Rush, to attack every enemy in 25+5/level feet range with 2 attacks at full attack bonus, each dealing 10d6 damage extra and ignoring DR, while getting intelligence bonus and strenght bonus to both attack rolls and damage of each strike?

Specifically asking because I'm trying to understand build of someone I'm playing with in a pbp-so thanks in advance.


Even beta doc has "this does not increase the area the Harbinger threatens" clause. Spinning Flurry Rush has "All adjacent enemies" range.


Nyaa wrote:
Even beta doc has "this does not increase the area the Harbinger threatens" clause. Spinning Flurry Rush has "All adjacent enemies" range.

Spinning flurry is on the SRD, and says "Make two unarmed attacks at full base attack bonus against all targets within reach, inflicting an additional 4d6 points of damage per successful attack."...i suppose that is what kind of threw me off.

Target says "Target: All adjacent enemies", but the descriptive text then claims "within reach", as does the short descriptive text in overview.

And while Tenebrous Reach does not increase threatened area, is DOES increase the reach for strikes(which spinning flurry is).

So thank you, the wording got me worried there, because that seemed rather...powerful...which it still is, because he can still teleport as move action right into the middle of some enemies, then as standard action attack each one twice for normal damage+10d6 extra. Only it affects only his adjacent enemies which tunes it down from a WMD into a tactical nuke.


MordredofFairy wrote:
Nyaa wrote:
Even beta doc has "this does not increase the area the Harbinger threatens" clause. Spinning Flurry Rush has "All adjacent enemies" range.

Spinning flurry is on the SRD, and says "Make two unarmed attacks at full base attack bonus against all targets within reach, inflicting an additional 4d6 points of damage per successful attack."...i suppose that is what kind of threw me off.

Target says "Target: All adjacent enemies", but the descriptive text then claims "within reach", as does the short descriptive text in overview.

And while Tenebrous Reach does not increase threatened area, is DOES increase the reach for strikes(which spinning flurry is).

So thank you, the wording got me worried there, because that seemed rather...powerful...which it still is, because he can still teleport as move action right into the middle of some enemies, then as standard action attack each one twice for normal damage+10d6 extra. Only it affects only his adjacent enemies which tunes it down from a WMD into a tactical nuke.

Wanted to note for ya that Broken Blade is an acknowledged problem child; we're working on errata for it.

551 to 600 of 1,152 << first < prev | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Third-Party Pathfinder RPG Products / Product Discussion / Dreamscarred Press Announces: Path of War Expanded! All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.