question about scrolls


Beginner Box


Pathfinder Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber

reading about them, it says to use them, you have to be able to read them, either through read magic or a check, then be a wizard for a wizard spell or the same for cleric, read it as a standard action, then it loses me on the caster level part, basically I just am curious what the caster level matters for, it sounds like for use, but it specifically says you can use spells from scrolls regardless of being a lower level, and that the scroll uses its own caster level, which it points out the saving throws for said levels, but then there is the new life scroll, which has caster level 9, so what basically, what all does the caster level of a scroll effect/mean?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

No problem.

Imagine a 1st-level wizard makes himself a scroll of magic missile. That's easy, yes? It's a 1st level spell, and is created at caster level 1st. Any wizard or sorcerer can use that scroll but it will always be as if a 1st-level caster was using it. It will always have one missile.

Now. Imagine a 3rd level wizard sits down to make a similar scroll. He could make a scroll of magic missile at caster level 3rd, or he could "weaken" it, and make a CL 2nd or CL 1st version. The CL 3rd version is better, because it gets two missiles while the CL 1st and CL 2nd ones only get one missile. Say he makes a CL 3rd version (which costs more too, by the way). He gives that to his friend, a 1st-level sorcerer. That poor sorcerer MIGHT screw up, trying to use that scroll, because it's been scribed at a caster level beyond his capabilities. In order to succeed, he needs to make a "caster level check". Basically, he rolls a d20 and adds his caster level (1). If the result meets the CL of the scroll, he succeeds. So, that sorcerer friend only needs to roll a 2 to succeed.

Next scenario, a 1st-level adventurer cleric finds a scroll of raise dead. Fancy treasure. Raise dead is a 5th-level spell, which means the minimum possible caster to have scribed it must have been a 9th-level cleric. Now, our lucky cleric has a friend who has just died and wants to bring them back to life. The cleric needs to make a caster-level-check and has to hit 9. He rolls a d20 and adds his caster level (1). Only has to roll an 8. If he doesn't roll an 8, he burns up the scroll and his friend remains dead.

Scrolls and wants that you find are always assumed to be created at the lowest possible values for them, just for convenience sake. So imagine you find a scroll of fireball. That's a 3rd-level spell, so the minimum caster level who could have created it was 5th-level. Okay, but what's the saving throw DC for someone to take half damage? Well, in order to cast a 3rd-level spell, a caster MUST have a casting stat (Int for Wizards, Cha for Sorcerers) of 13 (10 + spell level). That only gives an ability modifier of +1. So... the DC for our fireball scroll is 10 + spell-level + ability modifier = 14.

It doesn't matter what your Int/Cha modifier is. All of the decisions about how powerful a scroll is were made by the caster who scribed it. As long as you meet the minimums yourself, you can just cast it. If you don't, you need to make that caster-level check to see if you pull it off.

Final example. Say you found a scroll of dispel magic and you're a 10th-level wizard. Say that scroll was scribed as CL 20th, by a very powerful mage. Now you're in a dungeon and you find a permanent wall of fire that you want to dispel. You could just cast your own dispel magic, but you suspect the person who made that fire was pretty powerful. If you dispel, you make a caster-level check (d20 plus your caster level). On average, you're going to get 21. Problem is, the DC to dispel is 11 + the caster level of the effect. So you'd - on average - dispel something another 10th-level caster would have made. Not good. So you pull out your "special" scroll. The one you may or may not actually be able to use, because it's more powerful than you are. In order to use that scroll, you have to make a caster-level check, and reach 20 (the CL of the scroll, remember?), so you need to roll 10. It's nearly 50/50. Say you succeed. You've activated this CL 20th scroll. That scroll says the caster makes a caster-level check against the wall of fire. Well, that's d20 + caster level, only THIS time you're using the CL of the scroll, which was 20. You roll your average 11 and add 20, and you're dispel check is 31, which means you can dispel - on average - something created by a caster-level 20th bad guy.

Hopefully that's enough examples to help you wrap your head around magic item creation and usage. If not, let us know what's not clear still.


Pathfinder Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber
Anguish wrote:

No problem.

Imagine a 1st-level wizard makes himself a scroll of magic missile. That's easy, yes? It's a 1st level spell, and is created at caster level 1st. Any wizard or sorcerer can use that scroll but it will always be as if a 1st-level caster was using it. It will always have one missile.

Now. Imagine a 3rd level wizard sits down to make a similar scroll. He could make a scroll of magic missile at caster level 3rd, or he could "weaken" it, and make a CL 2nd or CL 1st version. The CL 3rd version is better, because it gets two missiles while the CL 1st and CL 2nd ones only get one missile. Say he makes a CL 3rd version (which costs more too, by the way). He gives that to his friend, a 1st-level sorcerer. That poor sorcerer MIGHT screw up, trying to use that scroll, because it's been scribed at a caster level beyond his capabilities. In order to succeed, he needs to make a "caster level check". Basically, he rolls a d20 and adds his caster level (1). If the result meets the CL of the scroll, he succeeds. So, that sorcerer friend only needs to roll a 2 to succeed.

Next scenario, a 1st-level adventurer cleric finds a scroll of raise dead. Fancy treasure. Raise dead is a 5th-level spell, which means the minimum possible caster to have scribed it must have been a 9th-level cleric. Now, our lucky cleric has a friend who has just died and wants to bring them back to life. The cleric needs to make a caster-level-check and has to hit 9. He rolls a d20 and adds his caster level (1). Only has to roll an 8. If he doesn't roll an 8, he burns up the scroll and his friend remains dead.

Scrolls and wants that you find are always assumed to be created at the lowest possible values for them, just for convenience sake. So imagine you find a scroll of fireball. That's a 3rd-level spell, so the minimum caster level who could have created it was 5th-level. Okay, but what's the saving throw DC for someone to take half damage? Well, in order to cast a...

I get the basic concept, it doesn't appear that there is scroll creation in the beginner box, though I could be wrong, its just not in the GM scroll chart page explaining thing, it explains deciphering, class, reading, mentions the caster level and saving throw things, tells you about copying the spell to your spell book, and then tells you scroll prices, I get most of what you said, im still a little lost on how you determine saving throws for the spells, and what you meant about as long as you meant the minimum for the scroll, you don't have to make a check to use it, it tells me the levels from 1-3 go 11-12-14 for their saving throws, and tells me that means they don't get your mods, but doesn't explain anything more about if I get one of these special higher up scrolls, like the caster level 9 new life or caster level 7 stoneskin, im going to guess what you meant on the minimum requirements, casting without a check, means like what ive seen is every 2 levels you get a level up in spells, so 1st-1st 3rd-2nd 5th-3rd, and so on, so do you mean that you don't have to make a check to see if the scroll succeeds if you match the spell with level, like the caster level is 5 for a 3rd level, so if you are using a 3rd level spell, then you auto succeed being a level 5 or higher? and do you know where in the GM or any book for BB I can find the rolls to you use the higher scrolls details, cause they don't mention that at all in this section, the way they make it sound is as long as you can decipher it, and match its class, you are ready to cast it no matter what level ?


Pathfinder Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber
Anguish wrote:

No problem.

Imagine a 1st-level wizard makes himself a scroll of magic missile. That's easy, yes? It's a 1st level spell, and is created at caster level 1st. Any wizard or sorcerer can use that scroll but it will always be as if a 1st-level caster was using it. It will always have one missile.

Now. Imagine a 3rd level wizard sits down to make a similar scroll. He could make a scroll of magic missile at caster level 3rd, or he could "weaken" it, and make a CL 2nd or CL 1st version. The CL 3rd version is better, because it gets two missiles while the CL 1st and CL 2nd ones only get one missile. Say he makes a CL 3rd version (which costs more too, by the way). He gives that to his friend, a 1st-level sorcerer. That poor sorcerer MIGHT screw up, trying to use that scroll, because it's been scribed at a caster level beyond his capabilities. In order to succeed, he needs to make a "caster level check". Basically, he rolls a d20 and adds his caster level (1). If the result meets the CL of the scroll, he succeeds. So, that sorcerer friend only needs to roll a 2 to succeed.

Next scenario, a 1st-level adventurer cleric finds a scroll of raise dead. Fancy treasure. Raise dead is a 5th-level spell, which means the minimum possible caster to have scribed it must have been a 9th-level cleric. Now, our lucky cleric has a friend who has just died and wants to bring them back to life. The cleric needs to make a caster-level-check and has to hit 9. He rolls a d20 and adds his caster level (1). Only has to roll an 8. If he doesn't roll an 8, he burns up the scroll and his friend remains dead.

Scrolls and wants that you find are always assumed to be created at the lowest possible values for them, just for convenience sake. So imagine you find a scroll of fireball. That's a 3rd-level spell, so the minimum caster level who could have created it was 5th-level. Okay, but what's the saving throw DC for someone to take half damage? Well, in order to cast a...

keep in mind im pretty new to this, ive been playing the ACG, then branched into this, and I admit im spoiled with the simpleness of that game compared, so really working my mind to get this stuff down so I can spread the game love and get to GMing and such

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