I remember seeing some dispute somewhere as to whether or not a summoner could cast enlarge person upon his eidolon. Was it ever settled officially? Is it allowed?
I remember seeing some dispute somewhere as to whether or not a summoner could cast enlarge person upon his eidolon. Was it ever settled officially? Is it allowed?
The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list.
This ability does not allow the eidolon to share abilities that are not spells, even if they function like spells.
- I don't see what the argument is. There's nothing to suggest that the spells talked about in sentence 2 are the same in sentence 1. Spells with a target of you ALWAYS affect you, there's no reason to mention type. "A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type (outsider)" is its own stand alone clause.
-Also, there's no reason for enlarge person to be on the summoner spell list if they can't use it on their best friend.
I remember seeing some dispute somewhere as to whether or not a summoner could cast enlarge person upon his eidolon. Was it ever settled officially? Is it allowed?
as far as I can read it's perfectly acceptable RAW
Eidelons get to "Share Spells (Ex)"
The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list.
Seems pretty clear cut to me
same as share spells for familiars who can benefit from enlarge and reduce person spells
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I remember seeing some dispute somewhere as to whether or not a summoner could cast enlarge person upon his eidolon. Was it ever settled officially? Is it allowed?
Summoner: Can a synthesist (page 80) use spells on himself that don't affect outsiders, even though he is treated as his own type or the outsider type, "whichever is worse"?
Yes, because the normal eidolon's share spells ability says "A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider)," and the synthesist archetype doesn't change that.Note: This is a revision of an earlier question that used enlarge person as an example. FAQ pending about size-changing magic and a synthesist (because of the limitation of "the eidolon must be at least the same size as the synthesist" rule).
—Sean K Reynolds, 08/03/11
I'll be interested in the exact wording of this pending FAQ as I'm building a gnome synthesist with a medium sized eidolon.
I remember seeing some dispute somewhere as to whether or not a summoner could cast enlarge person upon his eidolon. Was it ever settled officially? Is it allowed?I'll be interested in the exact wording of this pending FAQ as I'm building a gnome synthesist with a medium sized eidolon.Summoner: Can a synthesist (page 80) use spells on himself that don't affect outsiders, even though he is treated as his own type or the outsider type, "whichever is worse"?
Yes, because the normal eidolon's share spells ability says "A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider)," and the synthesist archetype doesn't change that.Note: This is a revision of an earlier question that used enlarge person as an example. FAQ pending about size-changing magic and a synthesist (because of the limitation of "the eidolon must be at least the same size as the synthesist" rule).
—Sean K Reynolds, 08/03/11
anyone know where Sean K is pulling this rule from ?
"(because of the limitation of "the eidolon must be at least the same size as the synthesist" rule."
While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon's physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), but retains his own mental ability scores (Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma). The synthesist gains the eidolon's hit points as temporary hit points. When these hit points reach 0, the eidolon is sent back to its home plane. The synthesist uses the eidolon's base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon's armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores. The synthesist also gains access to the eidolon's special abilities and the eidolon's evolutions. The synthesist is still limited to the eidolon's maximum number of natural attacks. The eidolon has no skills or feats of its own. The eidolon must be at least the same size as the synthesist.
While fused, the synthesist counts as both his original type and as an outsider for any effect related to type, whichever is worse for the synthesist. Spells such as banishment or dismissal work normally on the eidolon, but the synthesist is unaffected. Neither the synthesist nor his eidolon can be targeted separately, as they are fused into one creature. The synthesist and eidolon cannot take separate actions. While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can use all of his own abilities and gear. In all other cases, this ability functions as the summoner's normal eidolon ability (for example, the synthesist cannot use his summon monster ability while the eidolon is present). This ability replaces the class's eidolon ability, bond senses, and life bond.
So...can my (normal) summoner enlarge his eidolon or not? If not, why?
but my question is, is the spell restricted to a humanoid-shaped Eidolon or can other body forms benefit from it?Spell description states:-
"This spell causes instant growth of a HUMANOID creature, doubling its height and multiplying its weight by 8. (etc)A HUMANOID creature whose size increases to Large has a space of 10 feet and a natural reach of 10 feet. This spell does not change the target's speed"
Does the Eidolon exception to the normal Enlarge Person target requirements stretch as far as non-humanoid body types?
Cheers,
G.
It works for any shape of eidolon. It's not extended to biped eidolons because they're "humanoid" in shape; it's castable on the Eidolon because of the Share Spells ability. Note that others can't cast humnoid-affecting spells, such as Dominate Person on the Eidolon, as the Eidolon is not a humanoid and therefore not a legal target for spells restricted to targeting humanoids.
The Eidolon is a valid target, but will the spell actually do anything? I guess that's the real question. A strict reading of the spell description of Enlarge Person suggest it will only work for Humanoid Eidolons, but it's unlikely that this is the intent.
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The Eidolon is a valid target, but will the spell actually do anything? I guess that's the real question. A strict reading of the spell description of Enlarge Person suggest it will only work for Humanoid Eidolons, but it's unlikely that this is the intent.
There are no Humanoid Eidolons. They are all Outsiders.
When a spell refers to "humanoid" it is not generally referring to shape, but to the creature type. For example, Hold Person (Target one humanoid creature) does not effect an Aasimar (type outsider), no matter how human they look, because by the rules, they are not "type humanoid".
So, the Eidolon is a valid target, due to the share spells ability, and the spell would work any Eidolon the same (no matter the form).
The share spell feature for animal companions, familiars, and eidolons all override spells for the purpose of them being affected.
