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Intelligent items in Pathfinder Society


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion


I was wondering if you could buy an intelligent item in Pathfinder Society. I was thinking of buying something in the line of an intelligent amulet or some other item that has no offensive purposes. The purpose of the item is more to assist with languages or reading magic.

Osirion

This was answered in your other post:

Linkified

Verdict: If you can find an item that does this pre-built in a legal rulebook then yes you can buy it. Otherwise, you can't have it made/make it yourself.


The biggest thing that is confusing me is that the core book gives you prices to buy an intelligent item, so why wouldn't you be able to buy one. To me it seems no different than buying a magical item that you choose the abilities

Sczarni *** Venture-Lieutenant, Connecticut—Manchester aka Cpt_kirstov

Hariel wrote:
The biggest thing that is confusing me is that the core book gives you prices to buy an intelligent item, so why wouldn't you be able to buy one. To me it seems no different than buying a magical item that you choose the abilities

I can think of at least 2 things:

1) Guidelines aren't as fully science as premade items, it is harder to make sure something built with guidelines fits the price/power given to it

2) Many GMs don't allow intelligent items in their home games, which means in a shared game setting, they would be much less likely to be able to compensate for the extra complexities of an intelligent item.

3) Pricing for items once they get that complex is dicy (take a look at the RPG superstar first round threads at the bottom of the forums)


Mandreth wrote:

This was answered in your other post:

Linkified

Verdict: If you can find an item that does this pre-built in a legal rulebook then yes you can buy it. Otherwise, you can't have it made/make it yourself.

Sure you can buy intelligent items, just as much as you can buy a +1 holy frost longsword.

Neither is in a table, but both are exactly delineated as to cost.

-James


Half say yes, half say no.

What is ze answer?

**

Intelligent items are meant for GMs in home games to add a plot-twist or a funny NPC weapon or what have you. They aren't meant for an org play environment where everyone can just buy one. There's no way in that environment, for example, that a player wouldn't just say, "My intelligent longsword's mission is to make me awesome!"

So, for Pathfinder Society Organized Play, no intelligent items.

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Joshua J. Frost wrote:

Intelligent items are meant for GMs in home games to add a plot-twist or a funny NPC weapon or what have you. They aren't meant for an org play environment where everyone can just buy one. There's no way in that environment, for example, that a player wouldn't just say, "My intelligent longsword's mission is to make me awesome!"

So, for Pathfinder Society Organized Play, no intelligent items.

As someone who will be running Pathfinder events I can only say one thing to this.

T H A N K Y O U !

Cheliax

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Joshua J. Frost wrote:

Intelligent items are meant for GMs in home games to add a plot-twist or a funny NPC weapon or what have you. They aren't meant for an org play environment where everyone can just buy one. There's no way in that environment, for example, that a player wouldn't just say, "My intelligent longsword's mission is to make me awesome!"

So, for Pathfinder Society Organized Play, no intelligent items.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

(With caveat that it just occurred to me how fun it would be to simply roleplay as if my character sincerely believed that his masterwork (not even +1) rapier was intelligent and occasionally lost ego-battles to it...)

**

Nothing wrong with that. That sounds fun. :-)

Qadira ****

Just to be clear, there is still a ban on intelligent item creation correct? I just want to make sure this is still the case because a player asked me the other day if he could create them. Since it's not listed on the Additional Resources page or in the Handbook, I'd like to get a confirmation about this.

Cheliax *

Joseph Caubo wrote:
Just to be clear, there is still a ban on intelligent item creation correct? I just want to make sure this is still the case because a player asked me the other day if he could create them. Since it's not listed on the Additional Resources page or in the Handbook, I'd like to get a confirmation about this.

Wow, holy thread necro!

But to answer, item creation is not allowed at all in PFS, so no you can't create an intelligent item.

An interesting thing to note, though... Since Josh's post back in 2010, there is an adventure with an intelligent item on the chronicle sheet that can be purchased.

Qadira ****

Happosaai wrote:

Wow, holy thread necro!

But to answer, item creation is not allowed at all in PFS, so no you can't create an intelligent item.

An interesting thing to note, though... Since Josh's post back in 2010, there is an adventure with an intelligent item on the chronicle sheet that can be purchased.

I'd rather necro a thread with the obscure ruling than start a whole new one and reference it. Also, it isn't so much item creation as it is like putting a +1 on a sword - due to the definable gold amounts listed in the Core.

Cheliax *

Joseph Caubo wrote:

I'd rather necro a thread with the obscure ruling than start a whole new one and reference it. Also, it isn't so much item creation as it is like putting a +1 on a sword - due to the definable gold amounts listed in the Core.

Good point, though when looking at the rules for building an intelligent item, I ran into this description:

"Intelligent items can actually be considered creatures because they have Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. Treat them as constructs."

I have seen other posts on these boards saying that constructs are not purchasable, so that would lead me to say it's not available to add onto an item, either.

Andoran *****

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

You could always play a Magus Bladebound (Archetype), they get an intelligent weapon.

Qadira ****

Dragnmoon wrote:
You could always play a Magus Bladebound (Archetype), they get an intelligent weapon.

I think my friend wanted to add intelligence to an item his current character already had, so I doubt the Magus would work.

After looking over intelligent items today as well, I'm also interested because my retired character (JUST played through the retirement arc this weekend) is sitting on a dragon's hoard worth of gold right now and that would just be fun to fool around with.

But regardless of my daydreaming, knowing that you can't make Intelligent Items (unless specifically called out by your own class abilities) is something that probably needs to get added to the FAQ / Additional Resources / other reference documents since it isn't there already.

**

Quote:
An interesting thing to note, though... Since Josh's post back in 2010, there is an adventure with an intelligent item on the chronicle sheet that can be purchased.

This is quite true, I know I have personally purchased one such item (I am not sure if there are multipul or not). And as pointed out, Bladebound can do it.

I think the real key to the issue is the same one revolving around packmaster and the like. Having multipul creatures per player can bog down a session that may very well already be a time crunch. Intelligent items are just as bad in that they can do the same thing via action economy.

*

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Lord Twitchiopolis wrote:
Quote:
An interesting thing to note, though... Since Josh's post back in 2010, there is an adventure with an intelligent item on the chronicle sheet that can be purchased.

This is quite true, I know I have personally purchased one such item (I am not sure if there are multipul or not). And as pointed out, Bladebound can do it.

I think the real key to the issue is the same one revolving around packmaster and the like. Having multipul creatures per player can bog down a session that may very well already be a time crunch. Intelligent items are just as bad in that they can do the same thing via action economy.

However, it's worth noting that in both of these cases we have a reasonable set of guidelines for how these items will react (and in the case of at least one intelligent item on a chronicle sheet, it even spells out exactly when the item will use an action and that it's basically inert otherwise.) This side-steps the other problem of intelligent items, that of having to adjudicate whether or not they go along with a particular course of action.


Chris Kenney wrote:
This side-steps the other problem of intelligent items, that of having to adjudicate whether or not they go along with a particular course of action.

It shouldn't be any more difficult than handling familiars or other pets/companions.

Treat them like NPCs and when a player steps out of line with them then you run them or have another player do so for you, just like you would handle summons, etc.

-James

*

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
james maissen wrote:
Chris Kenney wrote:
This side-steps the other problem of intelligent items, that of having to adjudicate whether or not they go along with a particular course of action.

It shouldn't be any more difficult than handling familiars or other pets/companions.

Treat them like NPCs and when a player steps out of line with them then you run them or have another player do so for you, just like you would handle summons, etc.

-James

Unlike Familiars/Companions, the vast majority of intelligent items have their own goals, agenda, and are much more often in contention with their owners than those class features. This is both part of the fun and part of the balance.

Grand Lodge *

If intelligent items are band, it would be nice if PFS would come up with an alternative rule for giving weapons an alignment. For purposes of overcoming damage reduction, it just doesn't seem fair that a fighter cannot buy a permanently "good" sword, just like he could buy a weapon made out of one of the special materials.

Qadira ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

You can certainly add the holy property to a sword.

Taldor ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game Subscriber
Wesley Hardfact wrote:
If intelligent items are band, it would be nice if PFS would come up with an alternative rule for giving weapons an alignment. For purposes of overcoming damage reduction, it just doesn't seem fair that a fighter cannot buy a permanently "good" sword, just like he could buy a weapon made out of one of the special materials.

He can...it's the Holy enhancement.

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber
Wesley Hardfact wrote:
If intelligent items are band, it would be nice if PFS would come up with an alternative rule for giving weapons an alignment. For purposes of overcoming damage reduction, it just doesn't seem fair that a fighter cannot buy a permanently "good" sword, just like he could buy a weapon made out of one of the special materials.

He can. It's called "holy" and it's a +2 equivalent bonus.

Oh, you meant something like a permanent bless weapon?

Fighters get past DR by using Power Attack and swinging with both hands, or having smart friends who can cast.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Silly ninjas.

Andoran ** Venture-Lieutenant, North Carolina—Fayetteville

At Paizocon this year there was a unique intelligent item you could purchase at the auction. Can't recall who won that but there's some lucky PFS player out there with an intelligent widget.

Grand Lodge *

Thank you to those pointing out the Holy enhancement, but it is quite expensive compared to making a simple intelligent weapon. It would be nice if there was something like a permanent bless weapon to make up for the loss of the intelligent option. I'm playing a Lore Warden/Duelist and because of his character background, I would like him to have a chance to do damage in a fight against demons and devils, without making the character so specialized that he isn't useful in other fights.

*

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Wesley Hardfact wrote:
Thank you to those pointing out the Holy enhancement, but it is quite expensive compared to making a simple intelligent weapon.

Holy ain't cheap, but it is the standard way to overcome DR/good in the Pathfinder rules (not just PFS). In fact, I've been playing 3E/3.5/Pathfinder for 12 years now, in multiple home campaigns, and a half-dozen different OP campaigns, and this is the first time I've ever seen suggested going for an intelligent weapon as a primary way to gain a good-aligned weapon.

Until you can afford Holy, just make sure you have some oils of bless weapon...it's not like you're fighting demons and devils in every adventure, even at higher levels.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Charlie Bell wrote:
At Paizocon this year there was a unique intelligent item you could purchase at the auction. Can't recall who won that but there's some lucky PFS player out there with an intelligent widget.

Me :-)

It's "Delvefinder" and is stuffed with the soul of a former Pathfinder. She's more intelligent than my cleric.

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber

There was a lower-bonus version of Holy available in 3.5 that stacked. it was kinda silly.

If you want to overcome dr/good.... deal more damage. bane outsider(evil) will cover both and averages to 9 extra damage with a bonus +2 to hit for a +1 equivalence.

Custom items that could (should?) require the table GM to roleplay are just not kosher in a network play environment. The lack of a cheap way to do this permanently is not a bug.

Qadira *** Venture-Captain, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Thorkull

Holy thread necromancy!

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber
Jonathan Cary wrote:
Holy thread necromancy!

We see what you did there, Thorkull....

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Hariel wrote:
I was wondering if you could buy an intelligent item in Pathfinder Society. I was thinking of buying something in the line of an intelligent amulet or some other item that has no offensive purposes. The purpose of the item is more to assist with languages or reading magic.

Right now the only option for that itch is to play a Bladebound Magus to at least third level.

Osirion ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
LazarX wrote:
Hariel wrote:
I was wondering if you could buy an intelligent item in Pathfinder Society. I was thinking of buying something in the line of an intelligent amulet or some other item that has no offensive purposes. The purpose of the item is more to assist with languages or reading magic.
Right now the only option for that itch is to play a Bladebound Magus to at least third level.

Not the only option; there is a chronicle that has an intelligent ring that you can buy.

Scenario:

Intelligent Ring of the Weary from The Heresy of Man, Part III

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber
Gornil wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Hariel wrote:
I was wondering if you could buy an intelligent item in Pathfinder Society. I was thinking of buying something in the line of an intelligent amulet or some other item that has no offensive purposes. The purpose of the item is more to assist with languages or reading magic.
Right now the only option for that itch is to play a Bladebound Magus to at least third level.

Not the only option; there is a chronicle that has an intelligent ring that you can buy.

** spoiler omitted **

Another boon item:
Also a season 3 that has sparked some rules discussion. (It's a wacky wacky item)
*

And remember, there is nothing to stop your character from talking to its weapon and then believing it responds. Then buying a 1000 gp jewel encrusted scabard & rubbing it down with fine mink oil by candle light while whispering sweet nothings to the blade. Yes, yes, nothing wrong with that at all.

What the other charcters may think . . . well screw them. You and "Quickstick" can take over the world, at least that is what "Quickstick" keeps telling you. *nuzzle & pet, nuzzle & pet*

After all what are integent weapons but high maintenance girlfriends. They want all your attention, well treated, jelious of other weapons and try to break down your ego for toal domination! In the end you are just a husk of your former self as that weapon-slut goes off with another adventurer as you lie in the gutter.

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Nebten wrote:

And remember, there is nothing to stop your character from talking to its weapon and then believing it responds. Then buying a 1000 gp jewel encrusted scabard & rubbing it down with fine mink oil by candle light while whispering sweet nothings to the blade. Yes, yes, nothing wrong with that at all.

What the other charcters may think . . . well screw them. You and "Quickstick" can take over the world, at least that is what "Quickstick" keeps telling you. *nuzzle & pet, nuzzle & pet*

After all what are integent weapons but high maintenance girlfriends. They want all your attention, well treated, jelious of other weapons and try to break down your ego for toal domination! In the end you are just a husk of your former self as that weapon-slut goes off with another adventurer as you lie in the gutter.

I've heard some intelligent items make the same complaints about the adventurerers that wield them. :)

Perhaps the game worlds need a new form of interventionary counseling. I can see it now. Your Weapon And You.

Grand Lodge *

Nebten wrote:

And remember, there is nothing to stop your character from talking to its weapon and then believing it responds. Then buying a 1000 gp jewel encrusted scabard & rubbing it down with fine mink oil by candle light while whispering sweet nothings to the blade. Yes, yes, nothing wrong with that at all.

What the other charcters may think . . . well screw them. You and "Quickstick" can take over the world, at least that is what "Quickstick" keeps telling you. *nuzzle & pet, nuzzle & pet*

After all what are integent weapons but high maintenance girlfriends. They want all your attention, well treated, jelious of other weapons and try to break down your ego for toal domination! In the end you are just a husk of your former self as that weapon-slut goes off with another adventurer as you lie in the gutter.

See, that is what happens when you spoil your intelligent weapon. A firm hand and good willpower is necessary to wield an intelligent weapon.

No, shut up. I am not infringing on your alignment. Not this again... I already told you I only keep the short sword for emergencies. I am not replacing you.

Osirion

Hariel wrote:
I was wondering if you could buy an intelligent item in Pathfinder Society. I was thinking of buying something in the line of an intelligent amulet or some other item that has no offensive purposes. The purpose of the item is more to assist with languages or reading magic.

PFS is HIGHLY RESTRICTIVE on intelligent items, because youre effectively running 2 characters at that point. Then you have to deal with the crap of the GM has to roleplay your item's persona and that's its own headache.

Essentially, an intelligent item has the potential to slow down the game significantly with its shenanigans. This is a huge "no no" in PFSOP. So, they try to restrict it to pregen items.

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