Oscar Mild's page

Psyren wrote:

I think SKR's revision on page 8 is perfect. Makes the ability worth something at higher levels without requiring 20 rolls.

Try running it in an encounter before you say that. It's really nothing worth mentioning at all.

Well, most agree that Weird Words is unbalanced, at least as most have been interpreting it. It's too cheap for its effect and it's way, way too powerful as a replacement for "Suggestion" (a mediocre power at best). In addition the mechanics of multiple attacks and multiple saves is about the stupidest spell design I have ever seen.

Sean K Reynolds seems to agree, but I find his fix a bit too restrictive on the Bard. He limits the targeting and increases the cost. He eliminated the save, but his suggestion still seems too limiting to me. I do like him adding the scaled damage so the ability continues to have utility at higher levels.

Here is my suggested fix which I plan to impose on games I run unless someone talks me out of it.

Weird Words (Su): At 6th level, a sound striker can start a performance as a standard action, lashing out with up to 1 potent word per bard level (maximum 10) at targets within 30 feet. Note: "Up to" means you can choose to fire fewer than the maximum number. Each individual weird word expends 1 round of bardic performance.
These are ranged touch attacks. The Bard makes one attack roll which applies to all targets. There is no save.
Each weird word deals damage equal to the bard’s Charisma bonus plus d8 per weird word aimed at that target. The Charisma bonus damage is only added once per target no matter how many words are directed at the target. The Words count as magical weapons and the bard chooses whether the damage is treated as bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing. The bard may designate the type of damage differently for each target. DR applies.
At 10th, 14th, and 18th level, the damage increases by 1d8 per word.
This performance replaces suggestion.

I agree with Harmony, but I have an experienced DM playing with me and he disagrees. Reading the rules, I think he is wrong - but they are not particularly well written. Is there any official clarification?

From another thread:
"'No. The text (unless it's changed from the playtest) says to treat as summon monster # except...; that means it's treated as summon monster #. Also, Jason specifically said during the playtest that Augment Summoning works on it. Also, even the text itself says, "He can cast this spell" when describing the changes.'

Zurai is correct here folks. No need to argue. Augment Summoning does apply to the SLA.

Jason Bulmahn, Lead Designer, Paizo Publishing"

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l36g&page=9?Compiled-APG-spoiler-thread

Dragonchess Player wrote:

Oscar Mild wrote:

In our party a new player brought in a gun slinger. We are level 6. The gunslinger specializes in muskets. He does d12 damage plus his dex mod. He hits touch AC. He has loading down to a free action by musket master, rapid reload and the use of paper rounds. He has rapid shot so he shoots one extra shot a round. He rarely uses grit. He seems to use grit on the rare occasion his gun jams. In yesterday's battle, he was hasted, so he was shooting four times a round. He is consistently out damaging the other PC's.

This is my real game experience, not something theoretical. Have others not had this same experience?

Don't have all combats within 40 ft of the gunslinger. Note that early firearms only target touch AC within the first range increment. At 6th level, the gunslinger doesn't have a lot of options to target touch AC beyond 40 ft: A +1 distance musket is 9,500 gp (more than half of a 6th level character's recommended wealth on Table 12-4), Deadeye costs 1 grit per range increment, Steady Aim is a move-equivalent action (which precludes full attacks), longshot has a limited duration and is a personal spell (requiring multiclassing, a wand and Use Magic Device checks, or a custom magic item).

40 ft is also within charging distance; have enemies rush at the gunslinger to take him out quickly after he demonstrates how dangerous he is. This is a pretty basic tactic, so it's not like it should come as a surprise.

The issue isn't that the gunslinger is "overpowered," but that the combats are situations that allow the gunslinger the full use of class benefits. It's really not that different than a melee brute in a narrow corridor or a "GOD wizard" going nova with the perfect spells prepared for the day.

Agreed! What you can do on paper can be a lot different than what you can do during an actual game.

To my knowledge, our GS has no magic weaponry. Maybe masterwork. I can't imagine what he would do with fancier weapons and ammo.

Well, I am sure the DM will include some encounters at ranges over 40' in situations we cannot close on the enemy, but I do not expect a slue of them. In you basic encounter against the PC's in marching order, the GS will be within 40' of the baddies, so the problem persists in most situations. And yes, given time to see his power and and assuming an intelligent foe, the baddies may decide to rush the guy with a gun; if they are alive long enough to deduce the proper course of action. True enough.

But, . . . the suggestion that the monsters may recognize his superior threat and single him out for specific, special handling seem to implicitly recognize the fact that the GS is overpowered.

You have made some very good points and appreciate your thoughtful response, but from what I have seen, at least at the level I am playing, the GS class is overpowered. Nothing said so far suggests otherwise.

Thanks for your responses.

In our party a new player brought in a gun slinger. We are level 6. The gunslinger specializes in muskets. He does d12 damage plus his dex mod. He hits touch AC. He has loading down to a free action by musket master, rapid reload and the use of paper rounds. He has rapid shot so he shoots one extra shot a round. He rarely uses grit. He seems to use grit on the rare occasion his gun jams. In yesterday's battle, he was hasted, so he was shooting four times a round. He is consistently out damaging the other PC's.

This is my real game experience, not something theoretical. Have others not had this same experience?