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Bernaditi

Melkiador's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 5,122 posts (5,123 including aliases). No reviews. 1 list. 1 wishlist. 3 Pathfinder Society characters. 1 alias.


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The brawler flurry definitely needs errata. I think we can all guess how it’s supposed to work, but there isn’t rules text there to support any of the interpretations.


Hmm. What happens if you put someone’s rope trick in a bag of holding? Are people trapped in the rope trick or do they get expelled into the bag of holding when the spell ends?


Ok. So you can cast the second rope trick while inside another, but you couldn’t enter it while within the first.


Sensten wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
I don't think you can have an extradimensional space inside another extradimensional space.
What happens if you take a bag of holding/handy haversack/etc into a rope trick?

I don’t think there’s any general rule about extradimensional spaces. You just can’t mix bags of holding and portable holes.


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DungeonmasterCal wrote:
Didn't earlier editions of the game allow you to pull the rope up into the extra dimensional space? Or am I hallucinating that?

Apparently yes, but the Pathfinder designers thought that was too powerful for a second level spell, because then you could stay perfectly hidden for hours a day. I feel like the cleaner nerf would have been to lower the duration to 10 minutes per level, instead of make the weird rope rule though. And then maybe make a 3rd or 4th level greater version that lasts hours and can still have the rope pull up.


Hmm. So, rather than having to wait for the spell to wear off, any enemy that finds your rope just has to have a little knowledge arcana and a match? That seems to make the spell fairly worthless. It's also a problem, if you are trying to use the spell for something sensible like escaping a room that's temporarily filling with acid.


I guess anything could be a non-RAW answer, but I don't see anything suggesting that the spell ends if the rope gets destroyed. Spells that get dispelled when something happens, always specify that kind of behavior, like unseen servant or mage hand.


For extra cheese, use the hand familiar with an eldritch guardian/mutation warrior fighter and you can use your mutagen discovery to gain an extra arm, so you won't even be short a hand.

Also, focusing on unarmed strikes would probably be the friendliest combat style for this combo.


What if you use something, like a summon, to burn the rope after you climb up? Is the rope immune to damage while being used in a rope trick?

And what happens if you cast a rope trick while inside of a rope trick? When the first one ends, do you still fall out of the second one or does the new one just fall into the place where the old one was?


It’s not intuitive, but if you polymorph into a bird, you don’t actually use your wings to fly. You take the shape of a bird and gain a flight speed, because the magic enables you to fly. It’s just like when you polymorph into a dolphin and you can breath underwater, even though that’s not an ability of an actual dolphin.


Azten wrote:
Does that mean it's get to speak to other hands if it doesn't trade that out?

Lol. Yes, but the hands would still need to be creatures to qualify.


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Don't let your character's limitations limit your own fun though. Just because your character isn't smart, doesn't mean that you the player must act so. You should still participate in out of character conversations and the such as normal, but you can just give the credit for your good ideas to the other characters instead of your own. This is a social and cooperative game after all, and you, the player, shouldn't be removed from such elements just because of some numbers on your character sheet.


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A lot of the gods could be in a grey area of being god-enough to count. And you could surely go a life and an after-life without running into most of them. But Pharasma is the only god that every single person will need to deal with when they die. That's pretty godly. So why not worship her?


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It sounds like Pharasma just finds the idea of atheism offensive. Which makes sense, since she's a god herself.


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The thing is that all of this can be blamed on Pharasma. She's the one who gets to make all of these decisions about the afterlife.


If you believe in a god who's not actually a god, you still aren't an atheist. You'd go to whatever afterlife best matches your belief.


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There's so many deities, it shouldn't be that hard to find one that aligns with your morals, and just follow him. In other words, you don't follow your morals because of a deity, you follow a deity because of your morals.


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Reincarnation is also an option for those looking to evade the boneyard. But it'd just be a delaying tactic. Sooner or later you'd end up in some afterlife.


If it's not for PFS, the Wasp familiar can become a really nasty mauler.


Ferious Thune wrote:
So they could pick up feats that require Two-Weapon fighting through Martial Flexibility.

Maybe, but that's pretty clunky. You only have the feats while making a full attack. You could maybe use the higher level swift action version during the flurry, but it's very awkward.

And then there's the problem with a lot of the requiring feats still requiring a high dex, which somewhat defeats the purpose of flurry skipping those prerequisites in my opinion.

Brawler is a troubled class, that almost immediately got overshadowed by the unchained monk. It's pretty sad.


Mauler is a good archetype too. The protector just has a lot of synergy with the tumor familiar, because the tumor familiar with protector is basically a second hit point pool that also has fast healing.

But the tumor Mauler is pretty good too, because it can get out when fully healed and do its thing and then when combat is over it can re-attach and full heal up to full again just to pop back out and wreck stuff all over again. The reason I don't like doing this, is because the mauler really makes you want to take two levels of eldritch guardian to share your combat feats with it, because otherwise, it doesn't have much in the way of feats. You'll also want to take Mauler's endurance to give it more hitpoints.

So, the protector requires no investment for big rewards, while the mauler requires moderate to large investments for good rewards. And the mauler is best served by being paired with the eldritch guardian.


I think we see threads like this fairly often because so few classes complement all of the dwarf's racial stats and abilities. Slow and steady is the main sticking point. It makes you feel like you should wear heavy armor to get the most benefit of it, but it rarely works out. For example, the fighter has armor training which makes it redundant. And the paladin could benefit, but it also relies on charisma that the dwarf takes a penalty to. And then there aren't a lot of other heavy armor classes.


Comparing the kineticist to the inquisitor makes more sense because they can both nova. The fighter and ranger do fairly consistent all day damage.


At low level, the homunculus is a great scout. It's small size, dark vision and flight is perfect for sneaking ahead. It also makes a great scout when camping as it doesn't sleep and again has great vision, so your party never has to worry about keeping watches.

In later levels, you can afford to do some of those construct improvements to it. But that's not an option in PFS so I don't think the archetype is worth it there.


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Nothing from the OA is overpowered. Even ignoring the wizard, the kineticist's damage lags behind other good archery classes like the inquisitor. And the spiritualist may have borrowed bits of the summoner, but it's severely powered down. The only thing it's kind of powerful at is scouting.


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The Sideromancer wrote:
Melkiador wrote:
My kineticist got his powers by climbing a statue of Shelyn on a drunken bet and getting struck by lightning. He doesn't call himself a kineticist. He's just a guy who can shoot lightning from his hands.
I mean, that sounds like something Cayden would appreciate. I'm less sure about Shelyn.

Well, he worships Cayden. But it's not like air is one of Caydan's domains...


My kineticist got his powers by climbing a statue of Shelyn on a drunken bet and getting struck by lightning. He doesn't call himself a kineticist. He's just a guy who can shoot lightning from his hands.


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Jon Goranson wrote:
The question was asked why it doesn't fit fantasy and, again only for me, it evokes a later time than the fantasy I prefer or think about.

So, how do you feel about the alchemist and investigator? They are also very Victorian/Edwardian character types.


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Earth kineticist.


It may just be future proofing against attacks that cause damage that can't be healed by any form of healing.


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That hagriven looks like she could really use a hug.


In my opinion, burn and psychic magic aren't interesting enough to be worth the extra complications they give. But that doesn't mean I want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Those classes that use them are still really fun, even if they rely on a few rules that seemed to be different just for the sake of being different.


Scott Romanowski wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Which aspects of their flavour don't fit a fantasy game anymore than any other caster in the game?
It's simply a matter of personal preference.

I think it's more a question of why, though. What is it in particular? And does this preference extend to other classes like the alchemist and investigator who aren't represented in most fantasy stories?


Also, the kineticist ignores the new psychic magic rules, because they use spell-like abilities.


Daw wrote:

So now some of us are arguing that preferences, and really, NONE of this is anything more than preference, yet, are we really arguing that preferences you don't care for are then WRONG?

Time to let this one die.

There's nothing wrong in saying that this doesn't fit in your particular world. I was just making the point that some of these options are more common to fantasy, than some of the other character options that people seem to be ok with. And I think they fit right in with the fantasy kitchen sink that is Golarion.


To split further hairs, I consider generic fantasy to be more of a starting point that you then take away from and add to, to make your own non-generic fantasy world. Golarion, for example, is a non-generic world, but still has many of the elements of generic fantasy.

From a business standpoint though, it's pretty important for a game like this to allow you to approximate the abilities of popular characters from popular fantasy stories. And I feel like an elemental master who doesn't use vancian magic, can cover quite a few fantasy archetypes.


blahpers wrote:
Melkiador wrote:

The point is that certain elements are more likely to show up in any given fantasy media than others. And that people are likely to want their characters to be like a character from whatever fantasy property they enjoy. And that the kineticist comes closer to matching fantasy tropes than the vancian wizard.

Even in media based on dungeons and dragons campaigns, the characters rarely use vancian magic if they even have a magic user at all. And this is because vancian magic is so far from the generic fantasy setting.

Neither are more or less fantasy than the other, as neither have more or less a right to be viewed as the "default". They're both fantasy, just different flavors.

But one is more common. Hence, generic fantasy.


I personally never felt like the alchemist fit in the setting. It's such an odd collection of random abilities. A guy who makes magical bombs, but also can do not-magic magic by drinking stuff. With another drink that can make his stats wonky and discoveries to make all the wonky bits wonkier.


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The point is that certain elements are more likely to show up in any given fantasy media than others. And that people are likely to want their characters to be like a character from whatever fantasy property they enjoy. And that the kineticist comes closer to matching fantasy tropes than the vancian wizard.

Even in media based on dungeons and dragons campaigns, the characters rarely use vancian magic if they even have a magic user at all. And this is because vancian magic is so far from the generic fantasy setting.


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blahpers wrote:
To be clear, there is no generic fantasy. Every work, every world, every campaign has its defining characteristics and its idiosyncrasies.

That's an odd statement. Just because you have some unique elements in individual works doesn't mean that you don't have more commonalities across the entire genre.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StandardFantasySetting


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I do feel like the kineticist fits generic fantasy better than the vancian magic spell caster of dungeons and dragons.


And while being sickened is usually better than failing a will save, it's still not great.


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Being complicated is complicated. The warpriest has 6th level spell casting and 4 separate resource pools to manage. But no one seems to consider it complicated. Meanwhile, the kineticist just has one resource pool that just has a few abilities built around it, but it's considered complicated by many.


The kineticist gives you complication spread out over many levels. If you just take it one level at a time, it's pretty simple. I do feel the burn mechanic would have been better off just being another pool of points though.


Anyone know if Seifter ever gave guidelines on this? He's been really good at following up on the ABP.


Sorry Java. Wasn't referring to you at all. You were actually helpful to the conversation. Probably the first person in this thread to give useful information. Thank you.


Java Man wrote:
Melkiador wrote:
skizzerz wrote:
Or it could mean that Chris is the only one left at Paizo that does PRD things since Liz left, and she has/had a ton of other things on her plate higher-up on the list than updating the PRD.
Ah, the assumptions in that statement
If you check the website feedback forum for a recentish thread on PRD updating, Chris states roughly the above. My link fu is weak or I would.

If so, then someone could have just said that without getting all snippy.


skizzerz wrote:
Or it could mean that Chris is the only one left at Paizo that does PRD things since Liz left, and she has/had a ton of other things on her plate higher-up on the list than updating the PRD.

Ah, the assumptions in that statement


At this point, they would have had the time to do it over again from scratch with a framework though. Which is why I suspected they are doing an overhaul at the top of the conversation.


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http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fn#v5748eaic9thg wrote:
In general, if a class feature grants multiple subfeatures, it’s OK to take two archetypes that only change two separate subfeatures.

So, I guess we can assume that weapon proficiencies and armor proficiences are subfeatures of the "Weapon and Armor Proficiency" class feature.

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