Barbarian Class Preview

Monday, June 11, 2018

Rage consumes you in battle. You delight in carving through your enemies using powerful weapons and wreaking havoc without needing complicated techniques or rigid training, and you rely on your astonishing durability to get you through a fight. You associate your rage with a traditional symbol of affinity known as a totem, which might take the form of an animal, a spirit, or even a part of yourself. To many barbarians, brute force is a hammer and every problem looks like a nail; to others, the dark emotions within them are something to hold back and release only when it matters most.

When it came to barbarians in the playtest, we wanted to take the most popular parts of the original barbarian and the unchained barbarian and brew them together with a few special ingredients to make the class even more flexible to fit even more roleplaying and mechanical concepts. Let's take a look!

Rage

Rage is a barbarian's key class feature. Barbarians aren't super-trained in fancy weapon techniques like most of the other martial classes. Instead, a barbarian can enter a rage that drastically increases her damage and grants her a significant booster shot of temporary Hit Points, in exchange for a –1 penalty to AC and the inability to use concentrate actions unless they specifically have the rage trait (note, this means that somatic-only spells are now possible in a rage!). Unlike in Pathfinder First Edition, rage in the playtest is not limited in rounds per day—let's be honest, in Pathfinder First Edition, our barbarians never ran out of rounds anyway once they had gained a few levels. A rage lasts 3 rounds, followed by a round of fatigue. While you're fatigued, you can't rage again, but once that round has passed, you can enter a new rage, with a shiny brand-new set of temporary Hit Points to go along with it. You can do this as often as you need during the day!

Illustration by Wayne Reynolds

Totems

Without a doubt, the most popular element of barbarians in Pathfinder First Edition is the totem, introduced in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Player Guide. These totems are a set of three thematically linked abilities the barbarian can choose, starting at 2nd level. In the playtest, you get a totem right away at 1st level. Your totem is a representation of how and why you rage and grants you an initial ability, access to more totem feats down the line, and, at 9th level, resistance equal to your Constitution modifier against a specific type of damage. Each totem also has its own anathema, most of which are relatively low impact and designed to create roleplaying hooks. For instance, the giant totem's anathema states that you cannot fail to accept a personal challenge of your strength, much like how Amiri accepted the challenging task her tribal fellows set her to slay a frost giant. Some though, are stricter—the superstition totem requires that you never willingly accept the benefits of spells, but grants you some truly astounding antimagic abilities in exchange.

Some of the totems, like animal totem, giant totem, and dragon totem, offer a few abilities that are flat-out magical. For instance, animal totem barbarians can adopt animal features and attacks and even transform into an animal (a great way to represent lycanthrope characters), whereas dragon totem barbarians gain a dragon breath attack can even grow wings. Even though totems are popular and roleplaying opportunities are fun, we recognize not everyone necessarily wants to commit to them, so we also offer the fury totem, which has no anathema or special requirements and focuses more on barbarian feats that aren't tied to any totem, which we'll look at in a bit. But first...

Additional Barbarian Features

Though I called out rage and totems specifically, the barbarian has some really neat abilities beyond those. For instance, at level 3, barbarians gain critical specialization effects when in a rage, even if they don't fulfill the usual proficiency rank requirement for the weapon—they use whatever weapon is most efficient to express their rage! One other thing they have that nobody else does: 12 Hit Points per level. Add that to the substantial temporary Hit Points that they can generate (possibly multiple times in a long fight) and the resistances from their totem that kick in at level 9, and barbarians have incredible staying power. Sure, they don't prevent as many hits as a paladin or a shield fighter might, but they can stand there taking hits long past the point where anyone else could stay standing. This is also a good point to mention one feature barbarians don't have in the playtest: alignment requirements. Barbarians can be whatever alignment they want; for instance, a lawful barbarian might act like one of the concepts I described earlier, controlling and holding back her emotions to channel and release her rage when it matters most.

As many of you have predicted, barbarians also have the best Fortitude proficiency, gaining the juggernaut class feature at level 7 (which grants master proficiency in Fortitude and the ability to count any successes you roll as critical successes instead) and improved juggernaut at 13th (which grants legendary proficiency and removes the chance of critically failing), but they also have a secondary Will focus, gaining indomitable will at 15th level to become masters in Will. Tireless rage comes in at level 17 to allow barbarians to ignore fatigue after ending a rage (though they still must wait the normal amount of time before entering a new rage). Barbarians are all about brutalizing opponents without worrying about carrying lots of different weapons and selecting the right one for the job with their monster knowledge, so it makes sense that they gain the ability to rip through a chunk of resistances automatically with level 19's devastating strikes ability. Possibly my favorite barbarian feature, though, is the level 11 ability mighty rage—whenever you enter a rage, it allows you to immediately use one of your rage-only actions for free. So many possibilities!

Barbarian Feats

In addition to the feats based on totems, there are a variety of other feats available, from the bread-and-butter, low-level Sudden Charge to the devastating Whirlwind Strike (attack everything in your reach), Brutal Critical (your critical hits deal an extra die of damage as well as persistent bleed damage), Vicious Evisceration (you maim the enemy, dealing extra damage, reducing its maximum HP by an amount equal to its level, and giving it a –1 penalty to Fortitude), Contagious Rage (one of your allies gets the benefits and –1 penalty to AC imposed by your rage, but can still concentrate), and Quaking Stomp (you stomp so hard that it creates an honest-to-goodness earthquake). But none caused a playtest GM to raise their eyebrows quite like the superstition totem's Spell Sunder, which really saved us when we faced walls of force, magical trap effects, and more.

To close off, some of you might have expected me to talk about the dragon totem barbarian Linda is playing in my playtest game, who has sometimes been the party's primary healer. She does that through abilities beyond the barbarian class, though certainly Moment of Clarity (which allows a barbarian to use an extra action to use a concentrate ability mid-rage). But if you're wondering why there was a time in my playtest when she was the only one with an area attack, that was because of her barbarian's dragon breath!

Mark Seifter
Designer

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Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I like the new rage cycle. But I worry that combined with no later improvement to the rage bonuses, it will become the Goto 1-level dip

Good thing that Rage was nerfed then : no more bonus to hit, nor to Will

Part of the stretching of Classes (and Ancestries) over levels I guess


The Raven Black wrote:

I like the new rage cycle. But I worry that combined with no later improvement to the rage bonuses, it will become the Goto 1-level dip

Good thing that Rage was nerfed then : no more bonus to hit, nor to Will

Part of the stretching of Classes (and Ancestries) over levels I guess

If the damage bonus is character level based and it starts out low enough it could make the barbarian less of the go to dip.


bookrat wrote:

Somatic components seems an odd choice.

Visually, it's difficult nto.imagine a barbarian pausing for a moment to make a hand gesture beyond whatever is used to express an angry rant.

Verbal components, however, seem like they'd be perfectly fitting, especially if a barbarian were required to yell the verbal component, akin to a Barbaric Yawp.

(And seriously, if you could put the phrase "barbaric yawp" somewhere in the barbarian class section, I would love you guys forever. That's a phrase that needs to be made common).

Bonus points to drunken barbarians who down a beer and belch the verbal components of a spell.


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Just verbal components eh? FUS DO RAH!

Exo-Guardians

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Vidmaster7 wrote:
Just verbal components eh? FUS DO RAH!

WULD NA KEST!


Aiken Frost wrote:
Quandary wrote:
graystone wrote:
Take a 1d4 and put it on 1 when you rage and advance the number as you keep raging: when you flip it to 4 you're fatigued. Seems super simple to track.
Line up 4 shot glasses with spirit of choice...
Line up THREE shot glasses with spirit of choice and one empty, quaff one at the start of each turn of Rage. When you get to the forth glass, get sad because its empty. That's how you know this is your Fatigue round.

Actually, I can see getting to the empty 4th shot glass to cause the rage.


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Ok, I REALLY like what I'm seeing here. Will have to wait how the numbers turn out for bonus damage and temporary HP but I don't think I've ever felt the urge to play a barbarian quite as badly as now. And me being usually a player of caster-classes, that's saying quite a bit.

It's interesting to see how some people here already want feats or other ways to extend the rage duration. Would a large amount of temporary HP change your mind because refreshing those could be more valuable than more rage? I guess most players think of the 2 temp HP per level of the unchained barbarian. But what if it's more like 5 per level or even more in the playtest?

Two questions remain:

1. Already been asked, but does rage take an action? I would guess yes, because mighty rage allows you to use a rage power for free upon entering it. Somehow reducing "free rage" + "acton power" to "free action both" seems a bit much. Reducing "action rage" + "action power" to a "single combined action" sounds more reasonable.

2. Can a Barbarian willingly go against his Totem's Anathema in times of great need? Most obvious example would be a superstitious Barbarian accepting an emergency healing spell or something similar. Losing the Totem's powers for some time might be preferable to dying in some situations.


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Milo v3 wrote:
Aiken Frost wrote:

Except they all are part of an Order that trains them to use those weapons, and Orders have Codes?

How is that hard to wrap one's head around?

I see no issue with that. I see issue that All orders like that would all need that same aspect of the code.

If you are playing in Golarion, there are no orders of knights that have this feature. You are getting it from the barbarian primal whateverism so you use the listed anathema.

If you're not playing in Golarion, the listed anathema for the barbarian, cleric, etc are just suggestions. The GM will have their own anathema for their own deities, and can likewise work with the player to come up with alternate anathema for any other class or widget as well. In this case, work with the GM to come up with an equivalent but different anathema better suited to the Order you have in mind.

If you are playing in a custom "house" Golarion where GM and players can make additions and changes to the setting, see above.

Silver Crusade

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*wakes up*

*resumes screaming*


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Mark Seifter wrote:
But if you're wondering why there was a time in my playtest when she was the only one with an area attack, that was because of her barbarian's dragon breath!

Might I suggest a tic-tac?


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Rysky wrote:

*wakes up*

*resumes screaming*

... >.> <.< .... ?

Dark Archive

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A great preview, definitely my favorite one thus far! I'm really excited about the new barbarian and I think you've nailed it perfectly! Well, at least based on what we can extrapolate on these tidbits. :)

My only gripe is with 'Quaking Stomp'... I first read it 'Quacking Stomp' and, well, understandably it didn't instantly remind me of earthquakes! Hence I thought why isn't it called 'Earthquake Stomp' or 'Tremor Stomp' or something like it? Maybe it's another "victuals" thing? ;)

Dark Archive

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Huh?!? Why in the name of Sweet Asmodeus is Rysky screaming?

Silver Crusade

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Because I are happy.


Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I'm not a fan of the whole rage/fatigue cycling mechanism (either from PF1 or this version), because it creates two sets of stats to track and comes across as gamey. I'd rather the benefits of rage be reduced slightly and have it be an "always on" mechanical feature that can just be role-played as desired.


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Jhaeman wrote:
I'm not a fan of the whole rage/fatigue cycling mechanism (either from PF1 or this version), because it creates two sets of stats to track and comes across as gamey. I'd rather the benefits of rage be reduced slightly and have it be an "always on" mechanical feature that can just be role-played as desired.

That's not mechanically interesting, though. A certain amount of gameyness is necessary considering the fact that this is a game.

Silver Crusade

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*nods*


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Yeah games should be some what gamey. That is my expectation anyways. I think I would be somewhat upset if I played a game that wasn't a little gamey.

Dark Archive

Rysky wrote:
Because I are happy.

Ah! I feel that too -- the sweet bliss of serving Our Lord Asmodeus and the Blessed Majestrix (may She reign forevermore!) in the Greatest Empire that has ever existed on Golarion!


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I was really excited to get my claws on the playtest so I could start tinkering on new races ancestries, but now I want to start hammering together new totems and abilities. Which is saying something, as I was unmotivated by the PF1E barbarian.

Isabelle Lee wrote:
In addition (as some of the developers already know), I'd love to see an unarmored combat option. Ideally class-agnostic, but if it had to be class-specific, barbarian would be the one. ^_^

As long as Ostog remains Unslain, I'm pretty sure we'll see an unarmored barbarian in some form. Maybe not the core PF2E book, but more likely sooner rather than later. (You're a freelancer, maybe you'll be the one to write it?)


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Definitely my favourite class preview so far, and ironically a class that I have never been that keen on, since 1st Ed AD&D, always thought Barbarian should be a background or archetype (barbaric cleric, etc).

I really like the Superstitious deal as a nod to the original barbarian, and being able to take down walls of force is very epic and nifty, maybe they will also get an option to destroy magic items in order to gain some sort of power.

I woulds also like an unarmoured option (like Monk, but Con), Loincloth-Boy!


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So, like with Unchained, there is no raging for out-of-combat feats of strength?

Disappointing.
I understand that some people like some simplified math, but when it costs utility/comedy then it seems a net loss.

Silver Crusade

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There might be a “Bulk enhancer” ability for Rage to help out, and you can Rage when you’re falling to mitigate the damage so that’s nice :3

Silver Crusade

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LAND ANGRY!


Asgetrion wrote:

{. . .}

My only gripe is with 'Quaking Stomp'... I first read it 'Quacking Stomp' and, well, understandably it didn't instantly remind me of earthquakes! Hence I thought why isn't it called 'Earthquake Stomp' or 'Tremor Stomp' or something like it? Maybe it's another "victuals" thing? ;)

Now I've got this vision of Daffy Duck as a Barbarian . . . .

* * * * * * * *

Unlimited Rage for 3/4 of a day makes me wonder if Bard will get unlimited Bardic Performance for 3/4 of a day, although the time for each number needs to be a bit longer if the Bard is to be doing more than glorified ring tones . . . .


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Mighty Squash wrote:

So, like with Unchained, there is no raging for out-of-combat feats of strength?

Disappointing.
I understand that some people like some simplified math, but when it costs utility/comedy then it seems a net loss.

What makes you say that? From my interpretation the cost for using rage for out of combat utility has been removed entirely. You can now just Spell Sunder a magical obstacle without it costing you your rounds of rage per day. One issue might be for stuff that requires you to be active for more than three rounds - you won't be able to use the dragon totem wings to fly anywhere further than 225 feet away, for example.

...Though now that I think about it I'm kinda hoping I'm misunderstanding how that one works, because being able to rely on your own capacity to fly for three rounds then plummeting unceremoniously on the fourth seems like it would really dampen the usefulness of that ability in combat.

Silver Crusade

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Some abilities might have special clauses, "you can maintain x outside of rage by doing y".

Silver Crusade

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Barbarian is probably my favourite PF1 class. In fact, my second AND third characters were both barbarians, iirc (my first was a cleric, a class I didn't play again for a long time, mostly because I wanted more skill points). So I've been waiting for this preview with a mixture of anxiety and excitement.

And overall? I like it. The feats look neat (Vicious Evisceration is a great name), the 3/1 rage makes things more strategic, the totems look great (I'll add my name to list of people who agree that Superstition as a totem was a fabulous idea) and I absolutely ADORE the concept of lawful barbarians. I was just thinking the other day that (imho) the barbarian was always the class whose alignment restriction made the least sense. I also like that they have good will saves (at least eventually).

All of that said, there's something that I dislike and its the same thing that I disliked about the unchained barbarian. I'm probably alone in thinking this (200+ comments so far and no one else has mentioned it) but I don't like giving barbarians temporary HP. I MUCH prefer a CON boost. Yes, it makes the barbarian more likely to die, but that's the point. How often in fiction are barbarians presented as being insanely durable while raging, shrugging off blows that would have killed anyone else, but then finding themselves in mortal peril when their rage ends and their wounds catch up with them? That (at least in my opinion) is cool, and one of the reasons I like to play barbarians. The PF1 method mirrored this perfectly. The PF1 unchained method, 5e's method, and this method all do not. Rebalancing the PF1 barbarian's rage is fair enough, but I'd argue losing the HP you gained when you stop raging is key to the flavour.

The 3/1 rage thing is also part of this. As previously mentioned, I like the tactical elements of it, and I love that it limits rage without resorting to an annoying rounds/day mechanic. But honestly, is that how bararians work in stories? Rarely, I'd argue. Rarely do they have to worry about ending their rage until after the fight, and when they do it has more dire consequences. Honestly, I actually liked 5e's rages/day mechanic for this. It limited my rage so I couldn't rage all the time, but didn't make me have to quit raging in the middle of combat (I can't think of a single work of fiction where this happens to a barbarian useless they'd just suffered a grevious wound/got hit with magic of some kind) and I didn't have to track rounds/day. If only 5e had forced me to take the damage my resistences had let me avoid once my rage ended, or something. Then it would have been pretty good.

Anyway, overall I do like everything else, and I will definately be playing (and playtesting) the barbarian. But I just wish there could be a balanced, fun mechanic that ALSO mirrors what happens in fiction. Good job with everything else though!


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I don't like it being temp hp or con I would rather it just be a DR boost. I don't like my hp total changing, but its a minor issue to me. I don't need a soap box for that one.


Arachnofiend wrote:

What makes you say that? From my interpretation the cost for using rage for out of combat utility has been removed entirely. You can now just Spell Sunder a magical obstacle without it costing you your rounds of rage per day. One issue might be for stuff that requires you to be active for more than three rounds - you won't be able to use the dragon totem wings to fly anywhere further than 225 feet away, for example.

...Though now that I think about it I'm kinda hoping I'm misunderstanding how that one works, because being able to rely on your own capacity to fly for three rounds then plummeting unceremoniously on the fourth seems like it would really dampen the usefulness of that ability in combat.

A barb activating her rage outside of combat also gives a nice ambush option.

Like: You know you have to take down a superstitious barbarian. Block corridor with wall of force and hide somewhere. Barb knocks it down. Count to ten and attack when she's fatigued! :D

Silver Crusade

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Telling people "you now have a +4 morale bonus to Con and Str, calculate what it does for you and make sure you remember your Con got boosted if you get any Con damage/drain/penalty and make sure you remember about bonus stacking rules and remember that those new HP you have are NOT temporary hit points well yes duh they are temporary in a sense but they're not temporary as per rules" is about a zillion times more confusing, time-taking and awkward than telling them "you have now temporary +20 hp, you do +2 damage".

Silver Crusade

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Mark Seifter wrote:
Alchemaic wrote:
Huh, so Whirlwind Strike is Barbarian-only now?

Well we've previewed Whirlwind Strike for fighter as well, so...

(then again, things have sometimes changed since the preview. For instance, fans of the halfling ancestry would find it wise if they check out the final playtest book for the new cool stuff)

*eyes emoji*

I hope this hint means what I think it means ...

(emphasis added)


There is a lot of good here and I think this class is going to be a lot of fun to play. I really like that the developers have committed to a source for where this rage comes from (the totem) as this gives a narrative explanation for what rage is and how it works, and the feats and abilities look really cool.

That said, I am not very excited about the 3 rounds of rage/ 1 round of fatigue mechanic. I like the fact that rage is now an at-will power and that is something difficult to balance, but I feel like the set duration of the rage removes an element of choice from the player and creates more of a video game feel to the Barbarian's rage. Especially since there is no chance that the barbarian will attack allies or need to smash stuff for all three rounds, it seems likely that there will be many times where the barbarian rages (especially for a second time in a battle), and then the fight is over, but the barbarian is walking around raging for two rounds, but with out any purpose or even risk for doing so. While I am happy the player doesn't have to track rounds per day anymore, 3 rounds feels incredibly arbitrary for a duration.

I would have been much more excited for rage to either last 1 round (if they are going for clean and simple) and give larger bonuses to avoid extra duration tracking (something that is already a large hassle in Pathfinder), or for the player to lose 1 hit point per round of raging when they come down, so that players have to carefully weigh the decision to keep going. Maybe the HP loss is too brutal, but there has to be some kind of mechanic that would give the player more agency and narrative relevance to the decision to rage and to stop raging.

Shadow Lodge

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Milo v3 wrote:
Aiken Frost wrote:

Except they all are part of an Order that trains them to use those weapons, and Orders have Codes?

How is that hard to wrap one's head around?

I see no issue with that. I see issue that All orders like that would all need that same aspect of the code.

Stone Dog wrote:
Your response for the first is twisting what I said. I never said you "simply cannot have" anything. I said a single option for a group of specialists was to have a uniform membership. In this case yes, members of this set up are all of the barbarian class that are all initiated with giants as their inspiration. It was not the only option presented.

Except I was specifically talking about "members of this set up are all of the barbarian class that are all initiated to wield massive weapons" (nothing about giants involved in the organization technically).

Quote:
Second, there are always other options and always have been. Maybe the barbarians have the best ones and maybe they don't. Maybe there will be feats for it or class abilities and maybe there aren't and maybe they won't be good if they exist. Maybe there will be a property rune that is a secret process of these hypothetical knights that lets them swing around large bastard swords like little siblings. Maybe the other option is just to eat up the penalty like Amiri used to since she was an awesome character that never needed the special abilities PF2 is handing her.

There haven't always been other options though? Titan Mauler archetype for Barbarian didn't even exist initially, and Titan Fighter came out years afterwards. There is no sign that anything other than barbarian will start with things that let them use giant weapons, especially when only certain types of Barbarians can do it when "using giant weapons warrior" fits the barbarian flavour best.

Nerdrage Ooze wrote:
Restrictions. Anathemas. We can't have those, they will be used by power-crazy Mister Caverns do punish and pull us True Gamers down. Why
...

Actually i can see giant orders working differently:

1) A group of knights who run a brutal combat style INSPIRED by the strength of giants, who seek to prove their might against any worthy foes.

2) A group of LAWFUL warriors who seek to EMULATE the strength of giants and/or similar creatures and are trained to accept challenges from worthy foes who test their mettle

3). A group ofights trained in oversized weapons LIKE THISE WEILDED by giants. As a knighthood they defend their honour by accepting challenges from worthy foes that seek to imply dishonour in their ways.

4). A brutal group of thugs who operate under the guise of a knighthood but who simply throw their weight around to show their power. A challenge to them comes form the fact that they are trained to feel no opponent worthy, any who challemge this are an affront to their pride.

5) knight trained in the use of GIANT weapons who follow a code that means a worhty opponent can challemge them and should they see this opponent as worthy they feel compelled to accept that challenge from their years of training and discipline

I see the anathema as an inspiration not a limitation.

I also agree that the last comment is quite rude to you and could have been made in a more appropriate tone.

Silver Crusade

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Lem: "Awwww, I thought we were gonna have the Bard blog today, when it's gonna be my turn? Next Monday? Oh what about Friday!"

Amiri: "Boy! You are not ready."

Shadow Lodge

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Weather Report wrote:
Aiken Frost wrote:
Quandary wrote:
graystone wrote:
Take a 1d4 and put it on 1 when you rage and advance the number as you keep raging: when you flip it to 4 you're fatigued. Seems super simple to track.
Line up 4 shot glasses with spirit of choice...
Line up THREE shot glasses with spirit of choice and one empty, quaff one at the start of each turn of Rage. When you get to the forth glass, get sad because its empty. That's how you know this is your Fatigue round.
Actually, I can see getting to the empty 4th shot glass to cause the rage.

Thats why your rage restarts in the round after you realise youve just been handed an empty shot glass!


What if rage was more reactive then proactive, working more like a EX heroes defiance mix with rage? Say after taking X amount of dmg heal for Y amount, deal more dmg and take a -1 penalty for 3 turns (1 turn before you can rage gain). This makes it so that total hp never changes and so it can benefit from both feats that change variables and feats that proc when healing.

Granted I have not played unchained barbarians, just like 3 sessions of stalwart defender, effective same rage pf1 rage, so this might be horrible.


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Vidmaster7 wrote:
I don't like my hp total changing, but its a minor issue to me. I don't need a soap box for that one.

With Temp HPs from Rage I think it's easier to just not combine HP totals into one pool, keep Temp HPs in their own pool and only when that is dropped to zero do you start touching the permanent pool. Then you don't need to do any subtraction when you drop Rage, you just forget about whatever was remaining in the Temp HP pool.

ohokwy. wrote:
How often in fiction are barbarians presented as being insanely durable while raging, shrugging off blows that would have killed anyone else, but then finding themselves in mortal peril when their rage ends and their wounds catch up with them? That (at least in my opinion) is cool, and one of the reasons I like to play barbarians. The PF1 method mirrored this perfectly.

Personally I didn't have a problem with that dynamic in P1E in theory, but I think issue was more book-keeping problem related to Vidmaster's comment above. Technically you can also use the same 'not combining HP pool' approach with vanilla P1E rage HPs (just applying damage first to permanent HPs instead), but the negative HP dying thing complicated it.

Quote:
The 3/1 rage thing is also part of this... But honestly, is that how bararians work in stories? Rarely, I'd argue... (I can't think of a single work of fiction where this happens to a barbarian useless they'd just suffered a grevious wound/got hit with magic of some kind)

Disagree. What is rage? Fighting at peak performance? Whatever the 'mechanism', the idea that fighting performance may ebb and flow in a battle is pretty common in all fantasy/medieval cinematic story telling I'm familiar with (unless you're Steven Seagall), and indeed the premise of D&D (depending on d20 rolls). Don't focus so much on the stats, which are a mean to an end, the stats only tell you if you hit or miss, are alive or dead, the bonuses or HP totals aren't real in and of themself, what can happen while not raging can largely happen while raging as well, so what is big difference 'story wise' if we aren't fixated on 'playing the stats'?


Cat-thulhu wrote:
Weather Report wrote:
Aiken Frost wrote:
Quandary wrote:
graystone wrote:
Take a 1d4 and put it on 1 when you rage and advance the number as you keep raging: when you flip it to 4 you're fatigued. Seems super simple to track.
Line up 4 shot glasses with spirit of choice...
Line up THREE shot glasses with spirit of choice and one empty, quaff one at the start of each turn of Rage. When you get to the forth glass, get sad because its empty. That's how you know this is your Fatigue round.
Actually, I can see getting to the empty 4th shot glass to cause the rage.
Thats why your rage restarts in the round after you realise youve just been handed an empty shot glass!

I now want a Booze Totem barbarian.


I like what I am seeing, the 3-1 rounds thing, the temporary hp bonus to damage, the anathema and the damage resistance con bonus.

However I am afraid the 3 rounds thing infinite times per day has a problem. Either you can use only in combat because reasons so it becomes a disascosiated mechanic or you can get its benefits outside of combat, so now you can buffer with temporary hp environmental hazards. Its not a major problem, but it still irks me a bit.

Shadow Lodge

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Cat-thulhu wrote:
Weather Report wrote:
Aiken Frost wrote:
Quandary wrote:
graystone wrote:
Take a 1d4 and put it on 1 when you rage and advance the number as you keep raging: when you flip it to 4 you're fatigued. Seems super simple to track.
Line up 4 shot glasses with spirit of choice...
Line up THREE shot glasses with spirit of choice and one empty, quaff one at the start of each turn of Rage. When you get to the forth glass, get sad because its empty. That's how you know this is your Fatigue round.
Actually, I can see getting to the empty 4th shot glass to cause the rage.
Thats why your rage restarts in the round after you realise youve just been handed an empty shot glass!

Come on guys, drink responsibly, have the 4th shot glass be water, you need to stay hydrated.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I like the totem mechanic, it reminds me of sorcerer bloodlines, but was never a fan of rage and was hoping for some other options.

Silver Crusade

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Quandary wrote:
ohokwy. wrote:
How often in fiction are barbarians presented as being insanely durable while raging, shrugging off blows that would have killed anyone else, but then finding themselves in mortal peril when their rage ends and their wounds catch up with them? That (at least in my opinion) is cool, and one of the reasons I like to play barbarians. The PF1 method mirrored this perfectly.
Personally I didn't have a problem with that dynamic in P1E in theory, but I think issue was more book-keeping problem related to Vidmaster's comment above. Technically you can also use the same 'not combining HP pool' approach with vanilla P1E rage HPs (just applying damage first to permanent HPs instead), but the negative HP dying thing complicated it.

Yeah, this is true. The PF1 method is more complex, and that does need to be kept in mind. I want barbarians to take some of/all the damage they avoided taking whilst fighting as I feel like it mirrors the kinds of fictional heroes I want to play better. I actually can't think of a mechanical way of doing that which wouldn't be at least a little annoying from a bookkeeping perspective. Maybe that means that the barbarian I want isn't good for that the game, I don't know. I didn't think the PF1 barbarian was that bad though, personally.

Quote:
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The 3/1 rage thing is also part of this... But honestly, is that how bararians work in stories? Rarely, I'd argue... (I can't think of a single work of fiction where this happens to a barbarian useless they'd just suffered a grevious wound/got hit with magic of some kind)
Disagree. What is rage? Fighting at peak performance? Whatever the 'mechanism', the idea that fighting performance may ebb and flow in a battle is pretty common in all fantasy/medieval cinematic story telling I'm familiar with (unless you're Steven Seagall), and indeed the premise of D&D (depending on d20 rolls). Don't focus so much on the stats, which are a mean to an end, the stats only tell you if you hit or miss, are alive or dead, the bonuses or HP totals aren't real in and of themself, what can happen while not raging can...

I have to admit this is a good point, and thinking of it that way does make me feel a little better about the 3/1 system. However, in an ideal world I'd still like to take some of the damage I'd avoided taking when the combat ends.


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I don't know, they could try to go for best of both worlds by using Temp HPs which are lost first, but that HP pool must still be healed if you want to regain them again when you rage. (I assume they could be healed even while not raging, even though you don't benefit from them until you Rage) That wouldn't let anybody DIE from dropping Rage, but since you are at 'less than full HP' (including Temp Rage HPs) it 'promotes' roleplaying as wounded etc, and maintains 'need' for larger amount of healing to match total damage taken.

Sovereign Court

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Joe Wells wrote:
Twitter is my rage totem.

Same.

Sovereign Court

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Stone Dog wrote:

This roughly reminds me of the blacksmith code from Discworld.

The price for being able to shoe anything is that you have to shoe anything that is brought to you to be shod.

The price to be able to have giantish strength is to have to demonstrate it to those who challenge your might.

At least, the thought amuses me.

I quite like this. It's not quite shoeing a unicorn with silver, but it'll do. ^_^


Fuzzypaws wrote:


If you are playing in Golarion, there are no orders of knights that have this feature. You are getting it from the barbarian primal whateverism so you use the listed anathema.

If you're not playing in Golarion, the listed anathema for the barbarian, cleric, etc are just suggestions. The GM will have their own anathema for their own deities, and can likewise work with the player to come up with alternate anathema for any other class or widget as well. In this case, work with the GM to come up with an equivalent but different anathema better suited to the Order you have in mind.

If you are playing in a custom "house" Golarion where GM and players can make additions and changes to the setting, see above.

Yes? I said this in my first post....

I said that my only problem with the preview I can easily fix with house rules without an issue. Then people took issue with that.

Cat-thulhu wrote:


(The quote cut off before your actual text and I'm on phone so it would be annoying to copy it in this quote bubble)

Yeah there are definitely ways you can flavour it to justify things for different characters or groups. I just can easily think up characters who have that skill set without the restriction making sense. I tend to come up with organisations and then try to find mechanics that can represent them, rather than building the organisations with the mechanical quirks as a starting point.

Thank you for the end bit. I appreciate that.


Milo v3 wrote:
Fuzzypaws wrote:


If you are playing in Golarion, there are no orders of knights that have this feature. You are getting it from the barbarian primal whateverism so you use the listed anathema.

If you're not playing in Golarion, the listed anathema for the barbarian, cleric, etc are just suggestions. The GM will have their own anathema for their own deities, and can likewise work with the player to come up with alternate anathema for any other class or widget as well. In this case, work with the GM to come up with an equivalent but different anathema better suited to the Order you have in mind.

If you are playing in a custom "house" Golarion where GM and players can make additions and changes to the setting, see above.

Yes? I said this in my first post....

I said that my only problem with the preview I can easily fix with house rules without an issue. Then people took issue with that.

Cat-thulhu wrote:


(The quote cut off before your actual text and I'm on phone so it would be annoying to copy it in this quote bubble)

Yeah there are definitely ways you can flavour it to justify things for different characters or groups. I just can easily think up characters who have that skill set without the restriction making sense. I tend to come up with organisations and then try to find mechanics that can represent them, rather than building the organisations with the mechanical quirks as a starting point.

Thank you for the end bit. I appreciate that.

Just take it as a grain of salt man. everyone is all up in arms for these trying times. They don't read they skim. Let them believe what they want.

Silver Crusade

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Can't wait to see the Spirit Totem, also I hope there's a Revenge Totem :3

*forlornly*

Linnorms...


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It's interesting to me the example you picked out, Milo. The Barbarian class is one whose mechanics align with specific flavor very easily. Being a barbarian evokes a stronger image than being a fighter or rogue, and I think for some people it is even more archetypical than the Paladin. An order of knights who take up any challenge directly issued questioning their honor, strength, or bravery also doesn't seem like much of a stretch.

Granted, with your focus on homebrew, there's little reason you can't reflavor or ignore it. Nothing wrong with that. :)

Blave wrote:

Ok, I REALLY like what I'm seeing here. Will have to wait how the numbers turn out for bonus damage and temporary HP but I don't think I've ever felt the urge to play a barbarian quite as badly as now. And me being usually a player of caster-classes, that's saying quite a bit.

It's interesting to see how some people here already want feats or other ways to extend the rage duration. Would a large amount of temporary HP change your mind because refreshing those could be more valuable than more rage? I guess most players think of the 2 temp HP per level of the unchained barbarian. But what if it's more like 5 per level or even more in the playtest?

Two questions remain:

1. Already been asked, but does rage take an action? I would guess yes, because mighty rage allows you to use a rage power for free upon entering it. Somehow reducing "free rage" + "acton power" to "free action both" seems a bit much. Reducing "action rage" + "action power" to a "single combined action" sounds more reasonable.

2. Can a Barbarian willingly go against his Totem's Anathema in times of great need? Most obvious example would be a superstitious Barbarian accepting an emergency healing spell or something similar. Losing the Totem's powers for some time might be preferable to dying in some situations.

On point 1, those aren't bad guesses. On point 2, Mark said you only lose totem benefits but keep rage and other barbarian features, and you only need to spend a day of downtime re-centering yourself. So that sounds like a big yes.

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