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Kingmaker: The Path to Glory (Inactive)

Game Master pinvendor

Chapter 1: Stolen Lands? Well, steal them back!


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I ain't even worried


Itinerant GameMaster
Corinne the Chroniker wrote:
Is it possible to play Pathfinder in a more descriptive way, also? Or do the rules DEMAND that everything be grid related? I could quickly see our story becoming: "Corinne to node D7, strike. Villain 02 makes his saving throw, and moves to node E2...

Straight up, this is how most 3.5/PFRPG games are. I quit the group I was with because of that. I have tried to include descriptions and allow for "real world" adjustments such as visibility through bare branches and what shorter trees on a plains environment would be like versus the towering pines of a forest like we have up here in Oregon.

I figured we could play the rules straight for the preview battle, and then discuss what we liked/disliked/want changed when it was over. But how quickly communication breaks down it seems. I truly have no problem with doing things however you guys want. You want me to define a tree as "tree" not full tree, tall tree, bushy tree, willow tree, etc. etc. i am fine with that. You want me to give a description of exactly how the three trees around you look and how they would affect combat and movement for your character and his foes specifically (in other words, super-description) I am fine with that too.

I am not opposed to descriptive combat, but one thing about that. You will lose your ability to dispute my rulings, since we will be throwing out 75% of the rules Pathfinder runs on. I will be "guesstimating" everything and would therefore my word would be law once you had had your chance to give me your description. Otherwise it end up in debates by exactly what you meant by "I was crouching down, but I meant I was so low that my head wouldn't have been hit by the blade at waist level" or "I meant run, but I said jog, but it's really just a quick walk, so I wouldn't have been hit by the boiling acid that fell in front of me if I had been there."


1 person marked this as a favorite.

More importantly guys, I'm on a murdertrain.


Also my vote is to stick with what we are doing. So far only one hiccup, that shouldn't be enough to make us quit


Itinerant GameMaster
OneDrunkViking wrote:
More importantly guys, I'm on a murdertrain.

Quote of the year. + 1 RC


Itinerant GameMaster

So what do you think is fair ODV? Should we just add cover against Norry's shot which make it a miss, and leave everything else as is?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

My vote is add cover (and do a reroll for complete fairness(?)) then proceed.


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Female Human Level 1 Time Thief

I'm fine with whatever. Just adding my 2 cents. I'll play in whatever way we ultimately desire. And I'll agree with ODV. Just rewind things a bit, add the cover to the difficulty modifier and do a re-roll for fairness.

In honesty I don't think the topic of trees needed to take up this much of our time. It could have gone like this:

Pinvendor: And you're shot! It hurts. He nails you in the treeline.

Stavo: Quick question. I'd think I'd be harder to hit because of the cover of the trees themselves. Can we add that to his difficulty to hit me? And if so, is the result the same.

Pinvendor: Ok, good point. Let me consider that. GM makes his ruling, players accept, on we go.

No reason to get all emotional :)

Game on!


Itinerant GameMaster

Thank you for your suggestion. Now we shall wait for our two compatriots to awaken from their sleep cycles and weigh in.


Itinerant GameMaster

Wait...Corinne! Why are you awake?? Are you indoors?? Won't the sunlight cause you to vaporize?

And I agree. The situation would have been made much easier if emotions hadn't gotten involved. I realize I got a little too defensive which probably didn't help Stavo feel any better about the situation. hopefully he will realize that nothing was personal and we will continue to have fun.


Female Human Level 1 Time Thief

I'm always awake right about now. I get home early in the morning, sleep for a bit, wake up and eat then crash out for another 4 hours or so. I'm about to head back to bed :)


Honestly, I'll take the blow doesn't bother me. It's been said before this is the intro to combat for us in PFRP so this was going to come up. My original description is where Xul's at at the moment. When you give a DC to the tree, I feel you're basically telling me how dense it's branches are. a 50% to run through the trees squares mean it's pretty dense. a 20% or less would be the tree you seem to be describing. This is just like douchebag on the hill. The DC is what I used for the description of what's going on without asking you "what does the tree look like."

I'd rather them being flat and undescribed. The provide cover, you can't move through them (at all). Less real? sure, but when was the last time you saw an orc at the grocery store?

I'm not asking for a retcon I'm just not comfortable with the ruling. The fact I got hit brought it to my attention.


Quote:
I feel you're basically telling me how dense it's branches are. a 50% to run through the trees squares mean it's pretty dense. a 20% or less would be the tree you seem to be describing.

Thats what I was vibin on. I felt like if it was that likely to stun yourself it must be pretty dense, offer cover.


Itinerant GameMaster

Or just a low branch or two that's sturdy.

That was really what I was picturing in my head. I live in a forest, so I see a variety of trees every day. Most of the smaller ones I couldn't "walk" next to, because their branches are low enough that I would have to duck, or go around them. If I ran full force at one, it would be pretty interesting to see if I could duck before clothes lining myself or hitting my head because I wasn't fast enough.

At this time of year, none of the trees have leaves yet, so visibility between branches is only slightly impaired. I was imagining someone would be able to see you completely, but not hit your head without a penalty. However, someone standing 12 feet from you is sure going to have an easy time hitting your body mass. *shrug* That's what I was seeing in my head. A tree doesn't have to be dense to be a hindrance to movement. Just have one or two low branches. Oh, yeah and don't forget...Xulgag is as tall as Dana. If I couldn't walk under a real live tree branch on a tree outside my apartment at 6', I guarantee Xulgag can't.

Regardless, we'll just go with cover applying from trees as if they were in full bloom and have branches down to the ground like the tree ODV fell into drunkenly when you guys visited me. The +4 bonus to AC will make Norry's shot miss, but he thinks he hit Xulgag. You shall regain your 6 HP and get a new Perception roll that is at DC 7 and DC 12 for the same to bits of info as listed since you are not injured grievously this time. Since it's easier than trying to reconfigure where everyone is, where I showed Norry, Welek/Arielle, and Xulgag on the "How Xulgag arrived at this" picture will stand and we'll proceed from there. And as stated a number of times before, the archer on the hill does not have a very good shot at you, but he has seen you.


Quote:
like the tree ODV fell into drunkenly when you guys visited me.

Man I'm awesome at being a drunk.


Itinerant GameMaster

So that being settled, it is now Corinne's turn as both ruffians have made their moves.


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Itinerant GameMaster

I wholeheartedly agree with that avatar change. It is so much more you than Dr. Lucky.


Female Human Level 1 Time Thief

Final word from me about the trees. I agree with Stavo:

Quote:
When you give a DC to the tree, I feel you're basically telling me how dense it's branches are.

That being said, don't feel ganged up on, Pinvendor. I just see his logic.

Anyhow, onwards!

Can you relink me the map that has my current location? I wasn't able to find the post where you linked it. I know it's in here somewhere.

Also, I need to know the rules on how a grapple works. If I were to say charge up behind someone and tackle the back of their legs for example.


MURDERMURDERMURDERMURDER

Also, Corinne/Drach

Remember the CMB and CMD I showed you? Thats grappling. So you'd make your move next to someone then roll your d20 + your CMB (Combat Maneuver Bonus) and if you hit the opponents CMD (Combat Maneuver Defense) ta-da! You've engaged in a grapple!


Itinerant GameMaster

I am really confused about what you are talking about of a DC for a tree. I gave a 50% chance to hit a branch if running. Where are you getting that I assigned a DC to the tree?


Female Human Level 1 Time Thief

Ok, sounds good! Still need the link to the top down map and the CMD of anyone in range. I will try to update when I get home.


pinvendor, they're using 'DC' incorrectly, chill baby chill. In this case they mean the 50% chance as a difficulty check, as you are in fact rolling dice against it? Dig?

Dracorinne, I believe this is what you're looking for?


Female Human Level 1 Time Thief

Yes, thank you ODV. I will update later after The Den.


Female Human Level 1 Time Thief

And let's stop talking about trees now and play. We have a resolution, so let's make like a tree and leaf this topic alone ;)


Dracorinne! You dont have to move only 6 spaces! Since you ended out of range you could just run 12 or less, then be in range for next turn. Unless you are trying to make sure they don't get an attack on you before you do. Makes sense.


Itinerant GameMaster

ODV is Right, Corinne. If you are taking no other actions you can double your move just Like Xulgag did.


Female Human Level 1 Time Thief

In that case, I'll make one diagonal move and 7 moves forward. I don't want to totally close the range yet. If I get too close those two will crush me into dust :)


Itinerant GameMaster

In case there is any confusion, it is now Xulgag's turn. He is at full health and facing a sickle wielding Norry in the square immediately in front of him. He has a a Perception check to make to determine if he sees the archer on the hill to the right. Welek/Ariell are within one square of distance, but Xulgag would risk an AoO from Norry to close.


Itinerant GameMaster

Incidentally Corinne, if you were to come up behind Norry, you could give yourself and Xulgag flanking. I am not really sure why you are thinking you're so fragile.


Pinvendor, let Dracorinne play as they please! He's afraid of being crushed (which I mean, we did just see Xul possibly get two shotted, I would imagine thats off putting)

Ya big jerk!

Also, I wish to commit more acts of violence. Stavgag hurry it up my brother!


No AoO's for a 5 ft step if I'm reading correctly....


Female Human Level 1 Time Thief

The weekend is over! Looking forward to some excellent updates.


Itinerant GameMaster

@ODV: You may not recall this, but Corinne specifically asked me to make suggestions until she felt up to speed. Aside from the fact the hit was from a crossbow which has been discarded as it's no longer loaded. Corinne might even find if she moves to Norry's old position, she could take the time to load it, since she carries her own bolts. So, there is no need for name calling.

@Xulgag: You are correct the 5 ft step doesn't provoke...but if Welek chooses to try and engage you, you will have given both him and Norry flanking on you.

@Corinne: I just actually counted out the 7 squares + 1 move you just did...you do realize that you are nowhere near anyone, and you are shorting yourself the ability to actually reach the scene next turn? They all moved already, so their position on the map is no longer where their "images" appear on the map. I drew their movement on this update:

Most updated

Also, are you not now weaponless as you threw your dagger? See the note to ODV above.


Female Human Level 1 Time Thief

It's especially because I'm weaponless that I'm lagging behind. The idea was to sprint close to within range of the kidnapper and then tackle him from behind. I had not accounted for the fact that they would move as well. Still, I'm fine with how things are and thanks for the suggestions. I need them :)


Itinerant GameMaster

You don't like the "use his own crossbow" idea? Lol


Female Human Level 1 Time Thief

I like it, just didn't occur to me, nor I think to Corinne at this point. She's starting to get frantic and desperate.


Itinerant GameMaster

Interesting, Corinne. Let's see how desperate you can get...queue Arielle initiating something to make that "sisterly" feeling even stronger, heh heh.


Hmm updated map, looks like I'll be spending this round on the move!


I see using my full run of 12 I won't quite get over to Norry, but move me as close as possible, without running through trees and what not. I think Ragnar should just be coming around the West side of the tree. I trust your judgment.


Itinerant GameMaster

It's now your turn Corinne, in case you're not hip to the initiative. :P


Female Human Level 1 Time Thief

Thanks! Will read and update soon.


Quote:
"Wedge. Biggs. It's knock time.

Perfect


Itinerant GameMaster

Lol, you liked that did ya?


Itinerant GameMaster
Corinne the Chroniker wrote:
Thanks! Will read and update soon.

Lies!!!


So many lies.


"Wekel will become alerted to your presence as a real threat and will begin calling for assistance."

So, you want me to stop what I was planning to do? I know we're already going to have to take this up the hill so f%#~ it. I got 3 chances to punch a hole threw his chest before his turn, might as well try it. I'm not even worried about him dropping the girl since dbag on the hill might start shooting chances are a fall is going to hurt much less than a random arrow. He will be shooting into melee as is and she probably counts as cover for the kidnapper.


Also, found the rules for cover pg 195:

To determine whether your target has cover from your
ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line
from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes
through a square or border that blocks line of effect or
provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature,
the target has cover (+4 to AC).
When making a melee attack against an adjacent target,
your target has cover if any line from any corner of your
square to the target’s square goes through a wall (including
a low wall). When making a melee attack against a target
that isn’t adjacent to you (such as with a reach weapon), use
the rules for determining cover from ranged attacks.
Low Obstacles and Cover: A low obstacle (such as a wall
no higher than half your height) provides cover, but only to
creatures within 30 feet (6 squares) of it. The attacker can
ignore the cover if he’s closer to the obstacle than his target.
Cover and Attacks of Opportunity: You can’t execute
an attack of opportunity against an opponent with cover
relative to you.
Cover and Ref lex Saves: Cover grants you a +2 bonus
on Ref lex saves against attacks that originate or burst outfrom a point on the other side of the cover from you. Note
that spread effects can extend around corners and thus
negate this cover bonus.
Cover and Stealth Checks: You can use cover to make a
Stealth check. Without cover, you usually need concealment
(see below) to make a Stealth check.
Soft Cover: Creatures, even your enemies, can provide
you with cover against ranged attacks, giving you a +4
bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus
on Ref lex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a
Stealth check.
Big Creatures and Cover: Any creature with a space
larger than 5 feet (1 square) determines cover against
melee attacks slightly differently than smaller creatures
do. Such a creature can choose any square that it occupies
to determine if an opponent has cover against its melee
attacks. Similarly, when making a melee attack against
such a creature, you can pick any of the squares it occupies
to determine if it has cover against you.
Partial Cover: If a creature has cover, but more than half
the creature is visible, its cover bonus is reduced to a +2 to
AC and a +1 bonus on Ref lex saving throws. This partial
cover is subject to the GM’s discretion.


Itinerant GameMaster

Cover is defined as something which blocks line of sight (effect). If something can see 2/3rds of your body uncovered and the other 3rd through a few branches line of sight is not in play.


Itinerant GameMaster

But as I am sure you must realize I read Cover pretty thoroughly during the debate, I admit I am not sure why you decided it needed to be quoted here you could have just posted the link to the PRD.


Itinerant GameMaster
Stavo Warpblood wrote:

"Wekel will become alerted to your presence as a real threat and will begin calling for assistance."

So, you want me to stop what I was planning to do? I know we're already going to have to take this up the hill so f!+~ it. I got 3 chances to punch a hole threw his chest before his turn, might as well try it. I'm not even worried about him dropping the girl since dbag on the hill might start shooting chances are a fall is going to hurt much less than a random arrow. He will be shooting into melee as is and she probably counts as cover for the kidnapper.

I am uncertain why you have decided you are some kind of pariah in this game, Stavo. Since I figured ODV and Corinne would want to post today, I merely put in the spoiler to allow an "if/then" situation, but still allow follow up posts instead of pausing the game until you had made your Attack of Opportunity.

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