Was there any official ruling or RAW for this Fireball combo?
The Spell Trick (Fireball) gives these two effects:
"Shrinks the radius of your fireball in 5-foot increments (down to a minimum 5-foot radius). For every 5-foot reduction, you add +1d6 fire damage, which can push damage past the spell's normal dice cap."
and
"Replaces the single 20-foot radius burst with multiple miniature fireballs (10-foot radius) for every 2 caster levels. Each mini-blast deals 2d6 fire damage, and their grid intersections must be within 30 feet of each other. Targets caught in multiple blasts only attempt a single Reflex save against the combined damage."
Is there an official order of operations on this, or can you:
Step 1> Make your fireball a Clusterbomb. It's radius is now 10 ft. It's damage is 2d6 per every 2 caster levels.
Step 2> Widen your fireball. It's radius is now 20 t.
Step 3> Use concentrated fire to shrink the radius down to 5 ft. It's damage is now 5d6 per 2 caster levels.
So, without any other feats or buffs or anything, a widened fireball at Caster Level 14 would do 35d6 fire damage, or half that on one passed reflex save.
Can this be done, RAW?
(PS I would search threads on this, but my search function isn't working)
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Please use the correct name of the Feat; it makes searching for it easier.
I don't think you can stack Cluster Bomb and Concentrated Fire.
Concentrated Fire manipulates the radius of your Fireball, but a Cluster Bomb Fireball has several radii.
The Feat text is unclear (it is in a splatbook, after all), but I don't think that you can place multiple bomblets at the same point. You need to place them at different grid intersections.
Last, but not least, Widen is a metamagic feat and is applied to the spell when it is prepared (or cast, for spontaneous spellcasters).
Magic Trick seems to be applied when the spell effect is resolved.
So, in my eyes:
1) You cast Widen Fireball. You get a 40' radius? fireball.
2) You convert it to Cluster Bombs. At this point, Widen becomes meaningless; you have converted your 40' radius Fireball into X Cluster Bombs with a radius of 10'.
RAW is GIGO with this Feat. You need GM interpretation.
Oop, you right, my bad. Magic Trick.
The first point, about having to be different grid intersections, I'm not sure I agree with. It says all the blasts need to be within 30 ft of each other, yes, but it also shows how a creature would save if he was hit with overlapping blasts. I don't really read that as they can't be in the exact same squares each time.
While you may have a point on prepared casters, I'm not sure why where there's an order talked about with spontaneous casters. And obv maybe I'm wrong, but is there a listed order of how to apply magical effect changes, including metamagic?
I understand it's a splat feat, and can be used to gross effect, so I get why a DM wouldn't allow it. It's cheesy, even if it's legal, and if the first edition had kept going, and had errated more content, it wouldn't have stayed.
If it is RAW, though, I may still put it into a build just as a theorycraft example of powerful characters you can make in PF 1e.
Nothing in Magic Trick says you can use more than 1 trick at a time - so I would not let you in my game. As for order of operations, the Widen spell typically is applied when you memorize the spell, the Magic Trick is applied when you cast the spell.
So, in the case of cluster bombe, a 40' fireball is memorized, but turns into multiple 10' fireballs when cast. I see no problem with stacking them, but since the damage is still 1d6/level total - it's no real benefit.
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So, in the case of cluster bombe, a 40' fireball is memorized, but turns into multiple 10' fireballs when cast. I see no problem with stacking them, but since the damage is still 1d6/level total - it's no real benefit.
Moving from a cap of 10d6 to an uncapped value (potentially 20d6 at level 20 if you allow stacking the Cluster bombs on the same grid intersection) is huge. You get to increase the damage at no spell slot cost and without the need for a metamagic.
It is better than Intensified Spell, even if it is applied to a single spell.
Even if targeting the same grid intersection multiple times is not allowed, the caster normally will see 2 or 3 vertices of the target square, and between 7 and 12 vertices of the adjacent squares.
Because Cluster bombs damage everything within a 10' radius, there is no problem applying all of them to a single target, and probably few problems applying them to two targets in nearby squares.
Used well at high levels, you can probably deal the same damage as a regular Fireball in a comparable shapeable area, or more damage in a smaller area.
I don't think saying "RAW" is a good way to look at it; RAW is underspecified, that's the issue, and we might as well interpret it in the way that best fits RAI.
Personally, I'd let Widen Spell work on Cluster Bomb or Concentrated Fire, neither of those pairs seem OP alone, but I wouldn't let those two tricks be used on the same spell.
Mist Screen (Heighten Spell): You can shape your obscuring mist into a dense wall of mist with an area up to one 10-foot square per 2 levels. The sections of wall are 5 feet thick and must remain contiguous, but they do not need to be anchored to a solid surface. At least one section of the wall must include your space. Creatures standing within the wall have concealment. Creatures on the opposite side of the wall have total concealment.
Obscure Self (Stealth 6 ranks): You reduce the area of the obscuring mist to your space plus all adjacent squares, but the mist is no longer stationary and instead automatically moves with you when you move. This does not create enough concealment to attempt Stealth checks. As a swift action, you can anchor the mist, causing it to become stationary and allowing enough concealment to hide. You can release the mist as a swift action, allowing it to move with you again. If you take any fire damage while this trick is in effect, the spell immediately ends.
Looking at the Obscuring Mist tricks, did the writers intend for you to be able to make a giant wall of mist that also moves when you move? No, I don't think so. And from there we can infer the general principle that you can use at most one trick on a spell.
Moving from a cap of 10d6 to an uncapped value (potentially 20d6 at level 20 if you allow stacking the Cluster bombs on the same grid intersection) is huge. You get to increase the damage at no spell slot cost and without the need for a metamagic.
It still costs multiple feats (2) to be able to use Cluster Bomb, I see no issue with allowing it to do "d6 x level", as there are plenty of spells that can already do "d6 x level" (or more: disintegrate) in those upper spell levels, Not to mention simple things like Intensify Metamagic rods exist, and the target still gets a saving throw (multiple saves?). this is not going to be a game breaker at 20th level by any means.
I have no problem allowing stacked mini fireballs