Hello knowledgeable people.
We came across a situation concerning Wild Shape PF 1st Ed.
Our Druid and GM feel that a Wild shape into an Earth Elemental and using Earth glide, the character cannot see while underground, does not know direction (North South Etc) and cannot breath while under ground. Given situation an Item has been buried under old foundations we need to find.
The argument is that the rules do not state under Elemental body that they can beath, know direction or see, so therefore cannot search a grid and the player has to cast life bubble or similar to remain underground for a duration like drowning.
He is able to Wild shape higher than 3rd level as he is level 10 Druid.
My thoughts are If you change to a fish you can see breath swim how does the natural medium terrain is different.
Thankyou
The general rules for Polymorph state “If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing.”. Earth Glide specifies you are burrowing, so wild shaping into an earth elemental does grant the ability to breathe while using earth glide.
Druids are prepared divine casters so get access to their entire spell list including 0 level spells. Know Direction is a 0 level druid sspell that allows you to know the direction north of your current location.
So, while he cannot see and wild shape does not grant tremor sense he can (assuming he memorized it) simply cast know direction.
→Druid class with Wildshape(Su).
At 4th: Sml to Med Animal This ability functions like the beast shape 1 spell, .... Only animal sounds but can communicate (as an animal) with animals "of the same general grouping".
At 6th: Tny to Lrg Animal, Sml Elemental, ... as beast shape 2 or elemental as elemental body 1 spells.
At 8th: Dmtv to Huge Animal, Sml to Med Elemental, Sml to Med Plant, as beast shape 3, elemental body 2, or plant shape 1 spells.
At 10th: Sml to Large elemental, Sml to Lrg plant, as elemental body 3, or plant shape 2 spells.
→FAQ on Mooncursed Barbarian, 2016 showing the animal size can vary and abilities are set by the spell it uses.
Unfortunately, I believe the bonuses are set by target size, so using Elem Body 3 into a med elemental - you only get the Elem Body 2 medium size bonuses but the superior immunities of Elem Body 3.
→Elem Body:T1-4 says what you get.
1: Earth elemental: Elemental abilities based on size, such as burn, vortex, and whirlwind, use the size of the elemental you transform into to determine their effect. Sml: +2 size Str, +4 ntrl AC, darkvision 60 ft, earth glide. (see Transmutation Spells below).
2: Earth elemental: As elemental body I except {Med} +4 size Str, +5 ntrl AC.
3: Earth elemental: Immune to bleed dmg, critical hits, sneak(precsn) attacks. As elemental body I except {Lrg} +6 size Str, –2 Dex, +2 size Con, +6 ntrl AC.
→Transmutation spells ... If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form. ...
and yes, under monster earth glide ability it says When the creature burrows, ...
The holding your breath rules are very lax and it isn't usually an issue. see Swim skill - You can hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to twice your Constitution score, but only if you do nothing other than take move actions or free actions. If you take a standard action or a full-round action (such as making an attack), the remainder of the duration for which you can hold your breath is reduced by 1 round. (Effectively, a character in combat can hold his breath only half as long as normal.) After that period of time, you must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round to continue holding your breath. Each round, the DC for that check increases by 1. If you fail the Constitution check, you begin to drown.
→See Through Stone:D4
So my DM and Other player saying to me I am an idiot and don't use AI.
So confirming
1: Wild shape 10 level Druid changing into an Earth Elemental, does not have to cast a breath spell to earth glide.
2. He would be able to Earth Glide knowing his direction albeit with Know direction level 0 spell.
3. Could perform a grid search. Perception based search or the like.
Please need some real clarification here. Life bubble is being used ATM whenever he changes into elemental. And he cannot travel earth glide as he cannot see where he is going.
So my DM and Other player saying to me I am an idiot and don't use AI.
So confirming
1: Wild shape 10 level Druid changing into an Earth Elemental, does not have to cast a breath spell to earth glide. He holds the Elemental subtype of which they do not eat sleep or breath.
2. He would be able to Earth Glide knowing his direction albeit with Know direction level 0 spell.
3. Could perform a grid search. Perception based search or the like.
Please need some real clarification here. Life bubble is being used ATM whenever he changes into elemental. And he cannot travel earth glide as he cannot see where he is going.
OK update. They are saying that the Wild Shape ability when it refers to "acts like elemental body spell" that the whole spell casting School Transmutation (polymorph) part of its casting properties is included in the effect. the druids wild shape is then a polymorph subtype. so you somehow do not get the elementals abilities from elemental subtype.
I understand that Wild Shape IS you Ability and only activates the effects. do you also gain the elemental subtype with Wildshape?
When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of a Small air,
earth, fire, or water elemental (see the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary).
The abilities you gain depend upon the type of elemental into
which you change. Elemental abilities based on size, such as burn,
vortex, and whirlwind, use the size of the elemental you transform
into to determine their effect.
Air elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small air elemental,
you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +2 natural armor
bonus. You also gain fly 60 feet (perfect), darkvision 60 feet, and the
ability to create a whirlwind.
Earth elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small earth
elemental, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +4
natural armor bonus. You also gain darkvision 60 feet, the push
ability, and the ability to earth glide.
Fire elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small fire
elemental, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +2
natural armor bonus. You gain darkvision 60 feet, resist fire 20,
vulnerability to cold, and the burn ability.
Water elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small
water elemental, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Constitution
and a +4 natural armor bonus. You also gain swim 60 feet,
darkvision 60 feet, the ability to create a vortex, and the ability to
breathe water.
Mysterious Stranger wrote: So, while he cannot see and wild shape does not grant tremor sense he can (assuming he memorized it) simply cast know direction. Can you?
The spell description follows, note the bolded bit, the orison has a verbal component. I would think that you can't use a verbal component while underground, there being no air so you can't speak.
Know Direction
School divination; Level bard 0, druid 0, psychic 0, shaman 0
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
EFFECT
Range personal
Target you
Duration instantaneous
DESCRIPTION
When you cast this spell, you instantly know the direction of north from your current position. The spell is effective in any environment in which “north” exists, but it may not work in extraplanar settings. Your knowledge of north is correct at the moment of casting, but you can get lost again within moments if you don’t find some external reference point to help you keep track of direction.
Lawrence Mason wrote: So my DM and Other player saying to me I am an idiot and don't use AI.
So confirming
1: Wild shape 10 level Druid changing into an Earth Elemental, does not have to cast a breath spell to earth glide.
2. He would be able to Earth Glide knowing his direction albeit with Know direction level 0 spell.
3. Could perform a grid search. Perception based search or the like.
Please need some real clarification here. Life bubble is being used ATM whenever he changes into elemental. And he cannot travel earth glide as he cannot see where he is going.
As others have pointed out, you aren't required to breathe while using Earth Glide. As for regaining a sense of direction, druids have access to Phantom Hunt at 4th level, to deal with situations like this. If used in tandem with Know Direction, you'll be fine while navigating underground.
Lawrence Mason wrote: So my DM and Other player saying to me I am an idiot and don't use AI.
So confirming
1: Wild shape 10 level Druid changing into an Earth Elemental, does not have to cast a breath spell to earth glide. He holds the Elemental subtype of which they do not eat sleep or breath.
2. He would be able to Earth Glide knowing his direction albeit with Know direction level 0 spell.
3. Could perform a grid search. Perception based search or the like.
You've got it.
Elemental body doesn't provide you with tremorsense or any other means of "seeing" what's around you while earth gliding. That's a very deliberate choice by the designers. Otherwise it would be an incredibly deadly tactic for players to use. It's fun when the GM throws in one encounter with earth gliding elementals to challenge the players. Not fun when a player uses it every single fight to neutralize any non-flying enemies.
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