The general rules for Polymorph state “If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing.”. Earth Glide specifies you are burrowing, so wild shaping into an earth elemental does grant the ability to breathe while using earth glide.
Druids are prepared divine casters so get access to their entire spell list including 0 level spells. Know Direction is a 0 level druid sspell that allows you to know the direction north of your current location.
So, while he cannot see and wild shape does not grant tremor sense he can (assuming he memorized it) simply cast know direction.
So, while he cannot see and wild shape does not grant tremor sense he can (assuming he memorized it) simply cast know direction.
Can you?
The spell description follows, note the bolded bit, the orison has a verbal component. I would think that you can't use a verbal component while underground, there being no air so you can't speak.
Know Direction
School divination; Level bard 0, druid 0, psychic 0, shaman 0
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
EFFECT
Range personal
Target you
Duration instantaneous
DESCRIPTION
When you cast this spell, you instantly know the direction of north from your current position. The spell is effective in any environment in which “north” exists, but it may not work in extraplanar settings. Your knowledge of north is correct at the moment of casting, but you can get lost again within moments if you don’t find some external reference point to help you keep track of direction.
So my DM and Other player saying to me I am an idiot and don't use AI.
So confirming
1: Wild shape 10 level Druid changing into an Earth Elemental, does not have to cast a breath spell to earth glide.
2. He would be able to Earth Glide knowing his direction albeit with Know direction level 0 spell.
3. Could perform a grid search. Perception based search or the like.Please need some real clarification here. Life bubble is being used ATM whenever he changes into elemental. And he cannot travel earth glide as he cannot see where he is going.
As others have pointed out, you aren't required to breathe while using Earth Glide. As for regaining a sense of direction, druids have access to Phantom Hunt at 4th level, to deal with situations like this. If used in tandem with Know Direction, you'll be fine while navigating underground.
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So my DM and Other player saying to me I am an idiot and don't use AI.
So confirming
1: Wild shape 10 level Druid changing into an Earth Elemental, does not have to cast a breath spell to earth glide. He holds the Elemental subtype of which they do not eat sleep or breath.
2. He would be able to Earth Glide knowing his direction albeit with Know direction level 0 spell.
3. Could perform a grid search. Perception based search or the like.
You've got it.
Elemental body doesn't provide you with tremorsense or any other means of "seeing" what's around you while earth gliding. That's a very deliberate choice by the designers. Otherwise it would be an incredibly deadly tactic for players to use. It's fun when the GM throws in one encounter with earth gliding elementals to challenge the players. Not fun when a player uses it every single fight to neutralize any non-flying enemies.
Why not simply summon an earth elemental and have them fetch the object for you. While the druid wildshaped into an earth elemental does not have tremor sense a summoned earth elemental does.
Druids not only have all the summon natures ally spells they can spontaneously convert any spell to equivalent or lower level summon natures ally. That means they can spam summon natures ally until they run out of spells. A small elemental is on the summon natures ally 2 list. So you can use the higher level spells to summon more elementals. Your 4th and 5th level spells can summon 2-5 elementals, your 3rd level spells can summon 1-3 elementals, and your 2nd level spells summons a single small elemental.
1) The elemental form can earth glide AND "breathe". Again, you can use verbal and somatic(humanoid form) spell components
In an earlier post I said you could not use a verbal component as there is no air to make and allow the transmission of sound. This still seems like sound [sorry] reasoning.
I am not saying you are wrong, but would like to hear the reason this is not so.
I figured it out. You just need natural spell. I am too lazy to check the entire thread to see if this has already been made explicit.
I'm pretty careful in my advice to use RAW to stay clear of or use gray areas so you can do sensible (and sometimes silly) things with the spells. As you are on my 'do not respond' list I don't generally comment on your posts. There are multiple reasons why I do that but mainly it is to save my time for where it counts and avoid unnecessary arguments or rule-of-cool posters.
....hmmm.
What you say seems entirely sensible.
Of course if you have natural spell it is perfectly clear to anyone who can read.
If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing.
The section on Polymorph specifically states that a spell that grants a burrow speed allows you to breathe when you are burrowing. If you can breathe speaking should not be a problem. It does not state that you no longer need to breathe.
Sorry for the late reply ok here is the first part, wild shape is an ability not a spell they apparency and ability are similar as the spell is not a spell so it can't be countered
Second the spell elemental for express that you ASSUME a element and gain they special ability something that other polymorph don't give so here they express that you gain the earth glide,burn ect.
Third you are transform into a elemental so you gain the following elemental so you don't have to breath as you earth glide
As for where to go I will say use this spell lay of the land
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Second the spell elemental for express that you ASSUME a element and gain they special ability something that other polymorph don't give so here they express that you gain the earth glide,burn ect.
Third you are transform into a elemental so you gain the following elemental so you don't have to breath as you earth glide
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Actually, no: You don't get the Type, Subtype, or any trait granted by them that is not listed in the spell text or base polymorph rules, which is why the higher level versions of Elemental Body have to spell out the specific elemental immunities granted.
'Assume the form' is a pretty standard phrase for polymorph effects, also used in the Beast Shape, Fey Form, Giant Form, Monstrous Physique, and Undead Anatomy spells.
The section on Polymorph specifically states that a spell that grants a burrow speed allows you to breathe when you are burrowing. If you can breathe speaking should not be a problem. It does not state that you no longer need to breathe.
Yes, that makes the position entirely clear.
I have been playing PF1 since not long after it first came out and am quite well versed in the rules. But to know all the rules in detail... PF1 needs to be your job or your whole life.
I think there are a lot of players who think they know everything- wrongly.
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The section on Polymorph specifically states that a spell that grants a burrow speed allows you to breathe when you are burrowing. If you can breathe speaking should not be a problem. It does not state that you no longer need to breathe.Yes, that makes the position entirely clear.
I have been playing PF1 since not long after it first came out and am quite well versed in the rules. But to know all the rules in detail... PF1 needs to be your job or your whole life.
I think there are a lot of players who think they know everything- wrongly.
Wild Shape (Su): At 4th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type.This ability functions like the beast shape I spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. The form chosen must be that of an animal with which the druid is familiar.
A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form[b] because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)
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At 6th level, a druid can also use wild shape to change into a Large or Tiny animal or a Small elemental. When taking the form of an animal, a druid's wild shape now functions as beast shape II. [b]When taking the form of an elemental, the druid's wild shape functions as elemental body I.
Wild shape is very clear in saying that you get the effects of a specific polymorph spell, and half of the rules of the polymorph spells are under the polymorph subschool in the Magic section of the CRB.
Mysterious Stranger is citing those and is correct.- * - * -
An important clarification for the OP scenario: there is no rule saying that the wildshaped druid or elemental can bring the item back.
Elemental body or being an elemental gives you Earth Glide,
When the creature burrows, it can pass through stone, dirt, or almost any other nonmetal earth as easily as a fish swims through water. If protected against fire damage, it can even glide through lava. Its burrowing leaves behind no tunnel or hole, nor does it create any ripple or other sign of its presence. A move earth spell cast on an area containing the burrowing creature flings it back 30 feet, stunning it for 1 round unless it succeeds at a DC 15 Fortitude save.
The creature "pass through stone, etc." doesn't automatically allow carried items to do the same.
I see how it is possible to interpret "as easily as a fish swims through water" as allowing the transportation of items, but it would open a whole can of worms, like grappling someone and then, with a successful grapple, burting him underground by using the move option.When the druid wildshape his items are melded into his body, so he has the option to pick the item and wildshape again to bring it out. An earth elemental doesn't have it.
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Second the spell elemental for express that you ASSUME a element and gain they special ability something that other polymorph don't give so here they express that you gain the earth glide,burn ect.
Third you are transform into a elemental so you gain the following elemental so you don't have to breath as you earth glide
...Actually, no: You don't get the Type, Subtype, or any trait granted by them that is not listed in the spell text or base polymorph rules, which is why the higher level versions of Elemental Body have to spell out the specific elemental immunities granted.
'Assume the form' is a pretty standard phrase for polymorph effects, also used in the Beast Shape, Fey Form, Giant Form, Monstrous Physique, and Undead Anatomy spells.
If what he says is true, then the Ranger's favorite enemy and similar abilities like Horizon Walker's mastery wouldn't activate, even though according to you Whether they take elemental or animal form, they are still considered humanoid.
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Hello knowledgeable people.
We came across a situation concerning Wild Shape PF 1st Ed.
Our Druid and GM feel that a Wild shape into an Earth Elemental and using Earth glide, the character cannot see while underground, does not know direction (North South Etc) and cannot breath while under ground. Given situation an Item has been buried under old foundations we need to find.
The argument is that the rules do not state under Elemental body that they can beath, know direction or see, so therefore cannot search a grid and the player has to cast life bubble or similar to remain underground for a duration like drowning.He is able to Wild shape higher than 3rd level as he is level 10 Druid.
My thoughts are If you change to a fish you can see breath swim how does the natural medium terrain is different.Thankyou
Okay, let's hit this point by point:
Breathing Underground:- A druid wildshaped into an Earth elemental does still need to breathe.
- The Polymorph subschool rules do grant polymorphers in a form with a Burrow speed the ability to breathe while doing so, and Earth Glide comes into play 'When the creature burrows' so the druid is in no danger of suffocating.
Senses Underground:
- The only special sense granted in Earth Elemental form is darkvision 60 feet, so the Druid is effectively blind and presumably has the use the 'groping' rules to find anything: 'A blinded creature can grope about to find unseen creatures. A character can make a touch attack with his hands or a weapon into two adjacent squares using a standard action. If an unseen target is in the designated square, there is a 50% miss chance on the touch attack. If successful, the groping character deals no damage but has pinpointed the unseen creature’s current location. If the unseen creature moves, its location is once again unknown.'
- Keep in mind that the Druid presumably doesn't know how deeply the item is buried, so this is going to end up as a three-dimensional search area, which will likely complicate everything.
- Also, determining if you actually found the 'correct item' is a bit questionable, as lots of thing could end up under the foundations of a building.
- The ability to cast Know Direction to help navigate is a GM's call, but if you are searching in three dimensions, knowing where north is won't help you determine how deep you are.
Recovering the item
- As noted in another post, there is no explicit rule on if a being using Earth Glide can carry an object they find along the way, which makes it a GM's call.
- Presumably, you could just Burrow without using Earth Glide to dig your way out with the item.
- If the GM rules you can't actually pick the item up, you could presumably just head 'straight up' and get folks digging straight down from your emergence point (assuming the whole point isn't to recover the item without clearing the area's inhabitants first).
My questions from a player perspective:
- Is this item actually intended to be recovered?
- If so, are you skipping or ignoring the intended recovery process/adventure?
- If not, were any steps taken to prevent Earth Glide or similar shortcuts from working in the area?
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If what he says is true, then the Ranger's favorite enemy and similar abilities like Horizon Walker's mastery wouldn't activate, even though according to you Whether they take elemental or animal form, they are still considered humanoid....
Second the spell elemental for express that you ASSUME a element and gain they special ability something that other polymorph don't give so here they express that you gain the earth glide,burn ect.
Third you are transform into a elemental so you gain the following elemental so you don't have to breath as you earth glide
...Actually, no: You don't get the Type, Subtype, or any trait granted by them that is not listed in the spell text or base polymorph rules, which is why the higher level versions of Elemental Body have to spell out the specific elemental immunities granted.
'Assume the form' is a pretty standard phrase for polymorph effects, also used in the Beast Shape, Fey Form, Giant Form, Monstrous Physique, and Undead Anatomy spells.
Correct: The important thing to remember about polymorph spells/effects is that you get EXACTLY what it says on the tin (or in this case, the specific spell text and the Polymorph subschool rules): No more, and no less.
You may have the appearance and a few abilities of an elemental, but you are still just an organic poser at heart...
For context, Polymorph spells were potentially very overpowered in D&D3.x if you picked the right form (Alter Self + Troglodyte for its +6 natural armor was a personal 'low level' favorite of my Battle Sorcerer, plus a hat of disguise to retain her normal appearance) and were significantly modified in PF1 to keep them remotely balanced.
Earthgliding simply allows you to move through stone while burrowing. Burrowing is a form of movement so you can use as much or as little of it as you want, including zero. You can still breathe when doing so. People are trying to limit earthgliding way more than it should be. This is a druid that is using an ability that lasts hours. He does not need to change back and forth between normal and human form because he stopped moving while underground.