| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Currently I'm running the Ruins of Azlant AP, and in act 3 of the 4th book, the party encounters a Couatl with the Broken Soul template.
As one of the party members identified that it was a tortured and warped Couatl, the party decided to do non-lethal damage in hopes of finding a way to heal the creature.
Broken Soul template: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/broken-soul-cr -2/
Now, the template doesn't mention any way that this transformation can be undone, and while the Heal spell says it can repair conditions such as Insanity, I feel like that is too easy of a solution. (not to mention that it kinda cheapens the Broken Soul template and fluff if it can be undone by a 6th level spell)
So I turn to the collective minds of the internet for ideas on how one might be able to help a Broken Soul-creature. I am more interested in fluff ideas, so to speak, than mechanical ones.
Hmm, templates are pretty difficult to remove.
There arent rules for this, but here is what I would go for:
--Heal spells
--Atonement spells
--Some roleplay segments to calm it, and have it feel any kind of joy again.
--Are there any chaotic good/neutral good/chaotic neutral characters in the party? IIRC the most commonly "broken souled" things are Azatas, followed by Nymphs. If any party member, or their deiific patrons, have ties to either Azatas or Fae, then having someone from that side show up and offer to help could be nice.
--I like inserting "evil but affable and non hostile" sources of support, and something you could do is have the green mother (NE fae eldest of seduction) send a powerfull servant.
As you break your heads over how to heal the Coatl, for a moment, things become more verdant, as a stunning red haired woman approaches the party.
Fear not, I have not come for thee
Thy chivarly towards this broken soul has been noted, and is appreciated. Know that I have no hostile intentions, for the... limbs.. The beautifull Fae says with an expression of disgust
that have done this have also done the same to some of my kin.
The fae waves a hand and a picture of a appears, in the process of horribly torturing what seems to be a dryad.
The thing is... protected. From direct vengeance by me, yet I would reward thee handsomely if that thing is either slain, or brought before me. Until that happens... The Faes feature softens
A cause that would keep the victim in its state, even if healed, is the fear to be broken by the vile one again. As long as the vile one is not dead, healing cannot offer more then the most temporary reprieve
I can however offer to put your... charge... in a painless stasis. A deep sleep in which it feels no pain, needs no food, and does no harm. You do not wish to add to its torment by imprisoning it in harsher ways yes?
I am open with whom I am pledged to The fae says as she points at the symbol
And by thy auras I can sense that several of you are in opposition, but the insane cruelty, the crimes against my kin, open cooperation. And that foe... if that creature is allowed to live, it will continue its depredations.
Well first I will use dream dalliance after that I use charm monster on him after that I use purify body and to finish could be several use of psychic surgery to restore the peace of mind for him
I have to agree with the wish or miracle would be needed. Direct intervention of a deity could also work. From the sound of the template the broken soul has to willingly become a broken soul. The torture can push a creature to accepting its fate, but they had to choose to become what they are.
It might be possible to convince the broken soul to be healed, but that might require several things. Probably at least an atonement and heal. But that would be after you convinced it to be “healed”.
Honestly, the best option is probably to put the creature down and let the outer planes sort out the matter. It is a danger to everything around it and, while not mechanically insane, it's driving motivation is to inflict harm on others.
That being said, yeah, wish or miracle is probably your best bet. Aside from that, reincarnate the damn thing (or similar) to give it a new body that isn't wracked with pain and try to rehabilitate it.
It's true that wishful thinking and miracles can work wonders, but this isn't one of those cases. We're talking about a person who endured a long period of mental and physical torture; this isn't something that can be undone through the use of a spell, multiple psychological sections are required to help overcome the events that the creature faced.
As for killing him or letting him rest from his misery just so that others in the spiritual world can take care of him, it's the same as saying "it's not my problem" or "If we finish him off, he'll be much better off in his next life," but we all know that Pharasma doesn't act based on what you went through, but on your actions, so your punishment will be to live in the same hell.Where was your suffering, so is it really worth using a gem that costs 25,000 just to remove the pain? And what about the rest, how to help them overcome what happened or regret what they did?
As for killing him or letting him rest from his misery just so that others in the spiritual world can take care of him, it's the same as saying "it's not my problem" or "If we finish him off, he'll be much better off in his next life," but we all know that Pharasma doesn't act based on what you went through, but on your actions, so your punishment will be to live in the same hell.Where was your suffering, so is it really worth using a gem that costs 25,000 just to remove the pain? And what about the rest, how to help them overcome what happened or regret what they did?
We can assume all we want about what Pharasma will decide, but in the end, she decides. In the mortal plane, we have to decide whether or not the risk to the innocents is great enough to permit the continued existence of something bent towards evil and suffering. The end point of a soul's journey is, quite literally, not our problem. It is Pharasma's problem. Some might see this as pushing the problem onto someone else. I don't. You are still handling the problem *right now* and letting the responsible ones do their job. Now, you can still make the wrong choice, and we can argue about why that is. That's cool. That's fun even.
As for killing him or letting him rest from his misery just so that others in the spiritual world can take care of him, it's the same as saying "it's not my problem" or "If we finish him off, he'll be much better off in his next life," but we all know that Pharasma doesn't act based on what you went through, but on your actions, so your punishment will be to live in the same hell.Where was your suffering, so is it really worth using a gem that costs 25,000 just to remove the pain? And what about the rest, how to help them overcome what happened or regret what they did?We can assume all we want about what Pharasma will decide, but in the end, she decides. In the mortal plane, we have to decide whether or not the risk to the innocents is great enough to permit the continued existence of something bent towards evil and suffering. The end point of a soul's journey is, quite literally, not our problem. It is Pharasma's problem. Some might see this as pushing the problem onto someone else. I don't. You are still handling the problem *right now* and letting the responsible ones do their job. Now, you can still make the wrong choice, and we can argue about why that is. That's cool. That's fun even.
So in your opinion, salvation and redemption is a useless option if not present in a ap option?
So in your opinion, salvation and redemption is a useless option if not present in a ap option?
Not even close to my opinion on the subject. I love salvation and redemption stories. But there is a clear and present difference between someone who is in control of their actions and behavior, and someone who has been warped past the means of reason to the point where they embody suffering and harm to the innocents.
Allowing the redemption of demons opened the door to these kind of tricky conversations and sent ripples out about how much is too much, and if you don't do everything possible to redeem the most vile of creatures, you are just as bad as they are for not trying. A demon wanting redemption is one thing. A Broken soul? Hardly.
Strictly put, mortals should worry about mortal problems. Redeeming creatures that have passed a certain point that it requires literal divine intervention (even at the point of a cleric being involved), is right there. You are skirting it and complicating an otherwise easy moral decision. You kill the monster and save the innocents. If you can prevent innocents from being harmed AND make the attempt to redeem the creature, go for. But you bear the responsibility for what happens at that point, and you don't give the creature another chance to hurt an innocent. Sarenrae, for instance, loves to give second chances. Not thirds.
So in your opinion, salvation and redemption is a useless option if not present in a ap option?Not even close to my opinion on the subject. I love salvation and redemption stories. But there is a clear and present difference between someone who is in control of their actions and behavior, and someone who has been warped past the means of reason to the point where they embody suffering and harm to the innocents.
Allowing the redemption of demons opened the door to these kind of tricky conversations and sent ripples out about how much is too much, and if you don't do everything possible to redeem the most vile of creatures, you are just as bad as they are for not trying. A demon wanting redemption is one thing. A Broken soul? Hardly.
Strictly put, mortals should worry about mortal problems. Redeeming creatures that have passed a certain point that it requires literal divine intervention (even at the point of a cleric being involved), is right there. You are skirting it and complicating an otherwise easy moral decision. You kill the monster and save the innocents. If you can prevent innocents from being harmed AND make the attempt to redeem the creature, go for. But you bear the responsibility for what happens at that point, and you don't give the creature another chance to hurt an innocent. Sarenrae, for instance, loves to give second chances. Not thirds.
That is practically the same way a person like paladin, cleric and paladin of good alignment should kill a person who have evil alignment without judgment because if he goes free of charge it could make more evil in the world (this includes allies and followers), you can't judge based in the cover of the book, imagine is the objective is lost brother/sister of you (example of a backstory of you, presented by the gm) are you going to kill the broken soul of your siblings or try to help him?
That is practically the same way a person like paladin, cleric and paladin of good alignment should kill a person who have evil alignment without judgment because if he goes free of charge it could make more evil in the world (this includes allies and followers), you can't judge based in the cover of the book, imagine is the objective is lost brother/sister of you (example of a backstory of you, presented by the gm) are you going to kill the broken soul of your siblings or try to help him?
No, it isnt. Anyone who kills another because they 'ping' evil isn't exercising proper moral reasoning. And sibling relations have no bearing on the objective morals within the D&D system as a whole. They might cloud YOUR judgement because your moral values are weak or compromised. Mine are not. If there is someone who is a clear and present danger to innocents, I will do what I can to render them unable to continue to threaten them, including sending them to Pharasma should it be necessary.
It might be better to stay on topic of the broken soul and not conflate it with other particular evils.
Please note that Pharasma and the nicities of Golarion-verse alignment are non-issues since we play in Mystara.
Well never said anything about it, only that you were playing ruins of Azlant ap, how are we going to know you change the world
A couatl may be induced to reproduce by a variety of factors, the most common being a suspicion that its own death is approaching......Under these circumstances, a couatl spontaneously generates a shining, iridescent egg that disintegrates almost immediately upon touching the air, disgorging a perfectly formed new serpent a few feet long (treat as having the young simple template)...... Some accounts tell of couatls who, upon birthing their children, choose that point to voluntarily discorporate, vanishing in bursts of golden light and passing their life energy on to the new generation. More often, however, the parent couatl simply throws itself into its dangerous task with the certainty that, should it fall, another will take up its burden.Perhaps the couatl could choose a more dignified end, laying an egg and passing on life energy to it? (assuming its sanity has not completely disappeared)
This could be a good option but it will be only for the gm to decide, not the players (of course they can decide to rise her if they want to) the question is how to heal her pain and suffering, I still propose that charm monster and dream dalliance are good option for start the process of healing, and use the rest of the spell and phycology therapy along the adventure this way the can progress in the history and check the couatl for posible break down
A couatl may be induced to reproduce by a variety of factors, the most common being a suspicion that its own death is approaching......Under these circumstances, a couatl spontaneously generates a shining, iridescent egg that disintegrates almost immediately upon touching the air, disgorging a perfectly formed new serpent a few feet long (treat as having the young simple template)...... Some accounts tell of couatls who, upon birthing their children, choose that point to voluntarily discorporate, vanishing in bursts of golden light and passing their life energy on to the new generation. More often, however, the parent couatl simply throws itself into its dangerous task with the certainty that, should it fall, another will take up its burden.Perhaps the couatl could choose a more dignified end, laying an egg and passing on life energy to it? (assuming its sanity has not completely disappeared)
This is an interesting point, thanks for bringing it up. I might take some inspiration from this. :)