| Reksew_Trebla |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What do you build to survive as long as possible without being caught, until the Big Bad Evil Guy is killed, you take their plot super weapon, and reveal yourself as the real Final Boss?
This was an idea I had recently, and was wondering how you would even attempt this seriously. Obviously coordination with the GM is necessary, but like, keeping a secret that major seems hard.
| zza ni |
Vigilante - the class is built to hide your secret identity (or with the right mindset any roguish character.)
You deflect any unwanted question and inquiry as part of your secret identity, not to be told to someone who you can't 'trust'. and later it's 'for their own good' so as not to be used as means to get to you.
"No, You can't come with me to me 'secret lair'."
"No, I can't tell you who I really am, but I'm doing all this for the 'greater good'."
"Of course I was able to (X\Y\Z) I'm @#$-man."
| Reksew_Trebla |
But keep in mind, the GM might have the same (or similar) deal with other players as well...
"Now behold my foolish companions, as I turn... on..." Jared looks over at Jake as he stabs the NPC King's knight in the back, while Janet casts Create Undead on all the minions.
"Wait. Are all of you secretly evil too?" Jared asks.
"Hell yeah I'm evil." Janet says.
Jake responds with a thumbs up.
"And you Carl?"
"Well, not exaaaaactly." Carl answers sheepishly.
"Dammit Carl. This is why we can't have nice things."
| Phoebus Alexandros |
It's definitely doable.
Half the battle would be working with the GM in advance to develop a backstory that specifically pertains to the penultimate BBEG. This may (and probably should) be in contrast with the other PCs, bearing in mind that in many (if not most) published campaign products parties are often only be aware of the BBEG in a general or even vague sense--if at all. In that sense, the party becomes the vehicle for the "real Final Boss," who is using them as a super-charged version of the Leadership feat by another name.
Beyond that, there are a number of ways you could realize such a character. Assuming that everyone is starting at level 1, however, that would indicate a character with a very strategic, long-term focus. Regardless of the class in question, you'll probably want someone with decent to strong Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma, and an investment in the Bluff and Sense Motive skills--as well as traits and feats that bolster them.
A number of classes could work for this concept. Bards and Rogues could be great for this in a variety of ways. Don't discount a carefully built Fighter or Swashbuckler, either. There are a number of feats and class options that can give you effective skill ranks for the key social skills equal to your BAB. Such a character could fly under the radar quite well. Ultimately, though, it's worth considering that the "real Final Boss" should be a challenge for the rest of the party combined. The "plot super weapon" could of course level the playing field on its own, but full spellcasters are so powerful, regardless. A well-built wizard, in particular, could be the BBEG regardless. Now add the fact that he has all the insight he needs on his fellow party members as well as the advantage of preparing his spells specifically to incapacitate/kill them after the BBEG.
Be careful with Vigilante, because the more your secret identity has to do with the BBEG you seek to defeat/replace, the greater the chance that a pretty awesome reveal might be compromised.
If done right, this should come off very much like Isildur's "No" moment from "The Fellowship of the Ring" movie, except even more devastating.
| zza ni |
I think part of the challenge the op set was that you start at level 20, unlike the other party members, and need to hide that part too.
Need to be careful with things such as classes that have aura, as it get a lot stronger when you high leveled.
"Chris, why do devils keep bowing to you?"
"It's part of my backstory, see i was born to a duke of hell who fell in love with a mermaid..."
"Oah, why did you get him starting on that? now he'll be at it for HOURS!"
| Phoebus Alexandros |
Ah! To be honest, I don't think that's much to worry about.
A wizard, for example, can just keep spamming cantrips and progress to spells of the appropriate level for given encounters. His advantage, given his ridiculously high spellcasting ability score, is that for early to mid levels he can count on his "save or suck" spells having too high a DC for enemies to successfully save.
Likewise, a 20th level martial character can abstain from using feats that would outright kill enemies just by virtue of their static damage bonuses, and/or use nonlethal damage as a buffer--without having to worry about the attack penalty (if they even have one, depending on the build) affecting their odds of success.
In either case, there are feats and magic items that allow you to conceal your alignment, aura, etc.
The real question then becomes what level the other PCs start at. The lower their level, the more work is needed to make sense as to why a 20th level "real Final Boss" would use/shepherd really inexperienced PCs up to a level where they could face the BBEG he's trying to supplant.
| Claxon |
What do you build to survive as long as possible without being caught, until the Big Bad Evil Guy is killed, you take their plot super weapon, and reveal yourself as the real Final Boss?
This was an idea I had recently, and was wondering how you would even attempt this seriously. Obviously coordination with the GM is necessary, but like, keeping a secret that major seems hard.
This idea, while interesting from an outside viewpoint, is something I would absolutely hate to be a part of as a player.
If I don't know, then I will feel very betrayed by the other player and GM.
If I do know...I'm not sure I can keep that separated well enough for it to play out they way it should, even if I don't know which character is the BBEG.
| Claxon |
Heck, even further if I know that one of the players in the BBEG, but also know that it's not me...I mean actually end up being a jerk and ruining things by being "an evil bastard jerk" and finding a moment to try and kill everyone else. Ruining the GMs work with the other player...but making the GMs idea succeed (kinda).
And I know that I definitely shouldn't do that...but there's going to be the knowledge sitting in the back of my head that's going to make me want to betray everyone.
| I grok do u |
If the goal is to have some big PvP finale, seems far easier to shape contradictory PC goals with the BBEG's McGuffin. For example, one wants to obtain divinity, one needs it to resurrect murdered family, third must destroy so no one can use it to summon Cthulhu, another needs to bring it back to home temple to seal the hellmouth that will otherwise open, and yet another wants to sell it to "someone really nice who will give a lot of money for it," etc.
| Dragonchess Player |
Combining the ideas of Melkiador, zza ni, and Phoebus Alexandros, a skinshaper druid with the Spontaneous Nature's Ally feat, the Won't Stay Dead alternate capstone (instead of the at will Skinshaping), and a magic item to prevent/mislead magical detections/divinations can probably work pretty well; come up with a suitable "low-level PC" identity to take for 20 hours at a time (changing back to "normal" and reassuming the identity as you duck around a tree or whatever for a "bathroom break" every so often).
| Warped Savant |
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Play whatever you want with a high Bluff so that way you can pretend to be so much weaker than you are / pretend to occasionally fail saves / sometimes miss hitting the enemy / etc etc etc.
Also note, don't do this.
Ever.
I had a GM do almost exactly this with an NPC, no one in that group has played a game with the GM since.
While prepping for a different game, a player told me that he wanted to turn on the group at the very end because "I've been evil all along". I found a different group to run Hell's Rebels for and haven't run a game for that player since.
| Phoebus Alexandros |
I think there are different ways to skin that proverbial cat, and not all of them need to result in actual conflict between players and/or the GM.
For example, I think you'd get two completely different reactions from the following two scenarios:
1. A player turns on the party immediately after the BBEG is defeated, and uses the plot super weapon as a means to as an equalizer against his erstwhile allies. Player Characters die or suffer other losses as a result of this.
2. The GM and the player working with him reveal his betrayal as part of a well-constructed scene, during which he escapes with the plot super weapon, which sets up the actual final arc of the campaign. Player Characters are not unfairly impacted, and the narrative gives them an opportunity to prepare for the encounter to come as much as it would for any other combat.
| Pizza Lord |
3. The super weapon connects to an alternate dimension or tears a rift in space/time (possibly not in the same room), just from sheer magical overload or interference. The first time the BBEG used it, it swapped PC and 'evil'-PC, but also cut off or suppressed some power. When the PCs defeat BBEG and the player gets to reveal his evil plans (and maybe an evil fight scene, probably by activating the super weapon, a short time later, the real PC shows up (maybe a level or two behind or without some key gear, possibly with some explanatory exposition and lore) and now the player gets to keep working with the party to defeat the evil-PC (whichever one has the goatee is up to them). The GM runs evil-PC from the point of reveal.