Questions about Necromancer


Rules Discussion


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Hello, I have a question about necromancer class.

Does a character with WIDESPREAD FASCINATION feat qualify for the prerequisite grim fascination for the feats from the necromancer class ?

For example, if a character takes the widespread fascination : spirit to obtain the grave spell, can the character takes the become a spirit feat ?

Thanks for your future answer.


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No. It gives you the focus spell but not the fascination (which would come with the unique thrall benefits, and later access to the 12th level fascination specific feats).


I wondered the same thing, specifically because the Spirit Thrall's unique benefits are lame but the 12th level Spirit ability is awesome.


If a thrall can't move.

Is it possible to use sanguine transference on it ?


Waldham wrote:

If a thrall can't move.

Is it possible to use sanguine transference on it ?

Yes, because the Thrall never moves. The spell effect is basically you reform at the Thrall's space (destroying it) and leave a new, different Thrall in the space you left.


Same if a thrall from bloody tendrils ?


You can use Reach of the Dead to chain yourself up to 60' to a "relay" thrall (destroying it) and hit your Sanguine Transference thrall target 60' from that, trading spaces with it.

I don't love the focus thralls, but you could do a goofy trick to do long range repositions of them this way and cause problems for your enemies if your GM interpets it as a swap of you and the existing thrall, rather than destroying the target the thrall and creating a new (generic) thrall at the spot you left. Probably the intent is latter, though, so you'd destroy most focus thralls (pushing Perfected Thrall to the side and inflicting 20 HP).


Xenocrat wrote:

You can use Reach of the Dead to chain yourself up to 60' to a "relay" thrall (destroying it) and hit your Sanguine Transference thrall target 60' from that, trading spaces with it.

I don't love the focus thralls, but you could do a goofy trick to do long range repositions of them this way and cause problems for your enemies if your GM interpets it as a swap of you and the existing thrall, rather than destroying the target the thrall and creating a new (generic) thrall at the spot you left. Probably the intent is latter, though, so you'd destroy most focus thralls (pushing Perfected Thrall to the side and inflicting 20 HP).

Could be funny with Recurring Nightmare, since even if you kill it you can resummon it in a 60ft radius with a single action.

Can be a funny way hoping all over the place while inflicting Frightened whetever you choose to pop up.


Recurring Nightmare is growing on me as part of your antiflier tech anyway.

(There's also the 10th level spellshape that reduces a target's fly speed by -30 for 1 round if the spell has any effect on them. Lots of things you can drop from the sky with that.)


Waldham wrote:
Same if a thrall from bloody tendrils ?

Yes, but here we run into a bit of an issue in that sanguine transference is a bit unclear on what exactly you leave behind:

"You use the target thrall to reform your body in its space, and you leave a thrall where your body once was."

When it says you leave "a thrall" where your body once was...is it the kind you make with create thrall? Or is it the same type of thrall that you used for the spell (in your example, a tentacle thrall)?

I would personally rule it as your bog standard thrall, but it's something you (or your GM) will need to rule on. Regardless, you can target any thrall with sanguine transference, even special ones.


I agree that the Sanguine Transference contemplates a normal thrall being created in your space, even if you target (and destroy, Perfected Thrall aside) a focus point thrall as your target and arrival point.


Yeah, that was my reading as well, hence why I mentioned Recurring that you can simply resummon after it gets destroyed by Transference.

It becomes even more spicy at 16 with free sustain:

Free action resummon it up to 60ft away, 1 action teleport to it leaving behind a regular thrall, you still have 2 actions left for a regular/focus spell.


Leaving behind a standard Small/Medium Thrall also saves us the headache of having to figure out what happens if someone (for whatever reason) decides to use sanguine transference targeting something like a Conglomerate of Limbs (Huge) or Living Graveyard (Gargantuan) if the space we're leaving couldn't accommodate them.


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The Living Graveyard artwork is one of the best things ever published by Paizo.

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