Animist builds: what did people do with their animist?


Advice


Can some people post the builds on their animist characters and what they were doing?

Looking for real builds, not theorycrafting. What feats did you take and what kind of actions were you doing? Maybe a few examples of fights.

I'm working on my animist. The feats look not so great. Vessel best vessel spells for martial seems to be Embodiment of Battle and for blaster is Earth's Bile.

Be nice to see some builds, even free archetype or dual class builds would be good to see.

Silver Crusade

I've got one that I'm really enjoying. Just hit Level 8 so I'm unsure how it will scale.

It is built around Roaring Heart.

Centaur for automatic crits and +1 on shove.

Ponygait because Dungeons (and +1 to reflex doesn't suck).

Guardian Dedication (this is NOT a Free Archetype game :-() for Punishing Shove.

Athletics maxed out, including assurance.

Maxed out his land speed.

Armed with Mace and Shield.

If the combat has some mooks in it then roaring applause is just great. Go wandering off, assuredly shove 2 characters 10 feet while doing 20 points of damage and doling out level temp hit points to my friends. Often combined with Earths Bile. Has enough speed that can often push mooks into a place where I can get 3+ with Earths Bile

If that isn't a good idea, can switch to just doing some martial melee damage (haven't used it yet but planning on having Grudge Strike at L8)

Or, of course, I'm a spell caster. Fireball rarely gets old :-). Divine Wrath rocks.

Very flexible, lots of fun, powerful enough for the game I'm in.

Have even saved the small slow kineticist once when we had to retreat by letting the little bugger ride on me into the sunset :-)


That's an interesting build. Sounds like a good plan for building around Roaring Heart.


Animist is a very odd class to build for. They definitely made it so not a whole lot of casting stuff works with other classes.

Cardinal Guardians gives a bonus, but you have to use a spell from one apparition to get a bonus with a spell from another apparition. So if you cast an earth's bile to get the Cardinal Guardian's bonus, you would have to cast a spell from Lurker in Devouring Dark to get the bonus or penalty applied.

The designer seems to have included little drawbacks and limitations all throughout the abilities of the animist. You have to pay close attention to them so you don't gloss over it.

Apparition's Reflection seems powerful too. Once per hour cast a spell from a apparition slot at least 2 levels lower than your max slot. But after you do it, confused until the end of the next turn. So you're giving up a round of actions to cast another spell once per hour.

Quicken Spell 3 times per day is very good.


I've also noticed all the talk of changing spells quickly is not true. You only get to change your attuned apparitions during daily preparations. You get a third apparition at 7th and a 4th at 15th. You can't change them between daily preparation.

Circle of Spirits allows you to change your primary apparition, but not attuned apparitions the next day. So this idea you're walking around with five legendary skills all the time would require you to have that apparition for that day. There are other better apparitions to take if you want to maximizes Quicken Spell or Channeler's Stance or do melee combat.

So it's a pretty big fabrication you can switch apparitions quickly and efficiently while sustaining vessel spells, especially two. If the battlefield changes mid battle and you have to dump your vessel spells, your down two focus points. So whatever strategy you're trying to do to sustain two vessel spells to outdo a martial better work or you're going to get even weaker than the duration of the vessel spells end.

You are really reliant on vessel spells and focus points for power. Not as bad as the psychic, but more reliant than a sorcerer.

And the level 20 feats are pretty lousy. Par for the course for most casters other than the wizard or bard.


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I've also done the Roaring Heart Punishing Shove build. Guardian is uniquely great on Animist because of Guarded Advance availability at 12 for Step, Step, Raise Shield.

Liturgist lets you sustain apparition spells at 9 with Step, Leap, or Tumble.

Sixth Pillar Dedication can be good too just for Manuevering Spell.

Most people will go elf or halfelf for Elf Step at 9 though.

Druid dedication is also great for primal access and Blister Bomb.

Looking at my build, I skipped Animist feats at 4, 8, and 12.

First turn you can Focus Spell, Cycle, Focus Spell.

Next turn you can 2a Spell, then Elf Step / Guarded Advance / Manuevering Spell + Step to sustain both. Or Roaring Heart to try to reposition enemies close enough for your Elf Step sustained Earths Bile to hit both.

Also you do have the lore skills at all times. Even with just two apparitions, you have 4 lore skills autoscaling, it does not matter if they are a primary or not. By level 20 you have 4 apparitions, or 8 Master lore skills.


HalcyonHorizons wrote:

I've also done the Roaring Heart Punishing Shove build. Guardian is uniquely great on Animist because of Guarded Advance availability at 12 for Step, Step, Raise Shield.

Liturgist lets you sustain apparition spells at 9 with Step, Leap, or Tumble.

Sixth Pillar Dedication can be good too just for Manuevering Spell.

Most people will go elf or halfelf for Elf Step at 9 though.

Druid dedication is also great for primal access and Blister Bomb.

Looking at my build, I skipped Animist feats at 4, 8, and 12.

First turn you can Focus Spell, Cycle, Focus Spell.

Next turn you can 2a Spell, then Elf Step / Guarded Advance / Manuevering Spell + Step to sustain both. Or Roaring Heart to try to reposition enemies close enough for your Elf Step sustained Earths Bile to hit both.

Also you do have the lore skills at all times. Even with just two apparitions, you have 4 lore skills autoscaling, it does not matter if they are a primary or not. By level 20 you have 4 apparitions, or 8 Master lore skills.

I don't count the Lore skills much. It sounds great when you say, "They have 8 lore skills by level 20." Those lore skills are not all that great, bit like the spell lists. You might find one occasionally useful, but mostly they're just ok. You don't have much intelligence as that isn't a primary stat and I certainly wouldn't spend an item on boosting my recall knowledge too much or spend many ability boost on intelligence. Plenty of other classes can do that better and given I will have a very high wisdom, better to default to Nature and Religion as even with the lore specificity bonus I'll have a better shot using Religion and Nature to Recall Knowledge.

I think it's cool you guys are able to effectively use the Roaring Heart build. It's not something that would work well in the group I play in as we gain levels. We like using long range and trip too much to use a shove build. Most of the time I'm the only one using maneuvers because the others like to hit for as much damage as possible every round.

And the two focus spell sustained in a round would burn your focus points too fast. We don't rest between fights unless we have to. If you were doing one encounter a day, probably be ok until you just started joining the sorcerer in dropping a huge nuke and letting the well built martials do clean up.

Right now one of our groups we have a wizard that likes to drop the big nuke hammer from hundreds of feet away and a ranger archer who can shoot from 250 feet away with no penalty. We often set targets up to close the distance to us using move actions while we hammer from range.

Our martials sit there waiting for the enemy to reach us. The action calculation is much, much better when they use move actions then we get to attack them.

I have to have a strong build for the way my group plays. And the short range of the vessel spells is a real problem.

I'm working more on building the spell list to account for opening with range, then once they close landing an Earth's Bile. Then using Ignition in softer fights with the Channeler Stance bonus since cantrips benefit from Channeler's Stance. I need to ensure I can function while conserving focus points because my group won't stop to be nice to the animist. That's why I'm thinking of picking up Eldritch Archer so I can drop ignition spellstrikes from range combined with bow damage. I can cast heroism on myself to boost the bow damage and I can cast ignition all day saving my Earth's Bile for tougher fights.

That's why my psychic has such a hard time. Probably be better if they could enter every fight with full focus points, but that is not how my group wants to play. Or how our DMs run it. Collapsing, continuous encounters in dungeons or multiple encounter areas. Though you do get to unload if you're doing the hex thing where I imagine the animist shines brighter there similar to the psychic.

I'm hoping Blue Frog (or anyone else that made a strong caster) will drop his caster build. I think he might play closer to how I play and knows how to build a strong caster with some sustain that doesn't burn all the focus points in one fight or rely on strategies that require that kind of burn. And can operate from long range if needed.


This was the final build I played in a campaign we played until lvl 20:

https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=1512448

(don't mind the gear or the specific spells, it was in Foundry and couldn't be bothered to fully copy those).

Some notes:
- Free Archetype and Paragon were used.

- There were rp reasons for picking ranger, and we started the campaign with that orc AP, hence Dromaar and not Elf. It wasn't bad, but for full optimization you would probably prefer to pick rogue instead and fit in Acrobat.

- There was a Bard in the party, so EoB was devaluated and got my own reaction from Champion (also heavy armor). As I wanted to cast freely and not be locked out by battle forms also invested in using a guisarme.

- Steward of Stone and Fire, Impostor in Hidden Places, Monarch of the Fey Courts, Reveler in Lost Glee were the most used Apparitions.

- Playstyle was a mobile gish, operating in the frontline and focused on disruption and blasting. You can cast and strike, which also gives you a step and leap (and 2 sustains).

Dark Archive

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Based on my understanding of your group's standard of play (high level, dual class), I don't think this or most any other animist build is going to be considered ideal or on-par with your level of optimization with the goal of killing everything as fast as possible. That being said, this is my build that is attempting to do most everything at least adequately, using free archetype and ancestral paragon rules.

https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=1512483

Broadly, it's a pitborn nephilim elf liturgist animist with the witch, guardian and ritualist archetypes.

Elf is taken for Elf Step and the various skill focused feats, though Elf Step will be traded out quickly when Guarded Advance becomes available.

Witch is taken for arcane spells, cackle and Ceremonial Knife. Having a free familiar on the side is nice as well.

Guardian is taken for heavy armor that advances as fast as most martials until level 19, Taunt (to combo with invisibility and Shield Block), Guarded Advance, Ironclad Fortitude and Mighty Bulwark.

I'm taking ritualist just because I want to play with rituals like binding circle and it fits my character's concept of being a binder (as in the D&D 3e class).

Skill focus is arcana and religion for recall knowledge and spell related stuff and stealth to support high use of invisibility. Crafting is taken to expert to grab Magical Crafting.

The goal for this character is to play whatever I want on any given session while being competent at that role while also taking advantage of the liturgist's 9th level ability. I'm also in a party of nothing but 8 hp classes (we all play what we want, not what is ideal for party composition) so I am taking on the role of "tank" since I'm most suited for it and our party is relying more on evasiveness, control and attrition through healing resources for survivability over any raw durability.

I'm confident the class (before ancestry/archetype consideration) can handle blasting, control, healing or utility all on its own with the right apparition configurations, but again, I believe my group plays at a more standard, slower, lower power pace than your group, which seems extremely optimized for speed and damage and (I believe) clears entire dungeon floors in a single session. So, by your metrics, the class will be lacking because you're not given the time and have no need to re-attune apparitions or swap wandering feats. You seem like you want a very static build with a regular rotation and the animist is anything but static and if an animist is utilizing rotations, they should be expected to change day-to-day. The animist hardly has any builds on its own. They have some static, non-swappable options but of those most have obvious optimal and broadly useful picks. You generally either build around concept or for power and then choose whatever ancestry and/or archetype(s) for what you want to lean into.


I doubt my build will help you as it’s directly at odds with your play style. Because it is a Pathfinder Society rebuild, my goal was to transform my halfling battle oracle into something that could be used in society play. The purported flexibility of the animist led me to focus on the Embodiment of Battle for using a sling staff as ranged damage potential and gauntlets in case he needs to take advantage of reactive strike in melee range.

Normally he stays out of combat in a support-caster role. That has seemed to work in the lower mid-level range but I haven’t had the opportunity to play him very much. I do like the flexibility of the class despite it often being overstated. I just wish my sling staff didn’t take an action to reload. I’m guessing those ranged strikes will soon be replaced by a focus on spells once he gets more slots.


Angwa wrote:

This was the final build I played in a campaign we played until lvl 20:

https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=1512448

(don't mind the gear or the specific spells, it was in Foundry and couldn't be bothered to fully copy those).

Some notes:
- Free Archetype and Paragon were used.

- There were rp reasons for picking ranger, and we started the campaign with that orc AP, hence Dromaar and not Elf. It wasn't bad, but for full optimization you would probably prefer to pick rogue instead and fit in Acrobat.

- There was a Bard in the party, so EoB was devaluated and got my own reaction from Champion (also heavy armor). As I wanted to cast freely and not be locked out by battle forms also invested in using a guisarme.

- Steward of Stone and Fire, Impostor in Hidden Places, Monarch of the Fey Courts, Reveler in Lost Glee were the most used Apparitions.

- Playstyle was a mobile gish, operating in the frontline and focused on disruption and blasting. You can cast and strike, which also gives you a step and leap (and 2 sustains).

Thanks. It's super interesting to see how other people build.


John R. wrote:

Based on my understanding of your group's standard of play (high level, dual class), I don't think this or most any other animist build is going to be considered ideal or on-par with your level of optimization with the goal of killing everything as fast as possible. That being said, this is my build that is attempting to do most everything at least adequately, using free archetype and ancestral paragon rules.

https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=1512483

Broadly, it's a pitborn nephilim elf liturgist animist with the witch, guardian and ritualist archetypes.

Elf is taken for Elf Step and the various skill focused feats, though Elf Step will be traded out quickly when Guarded Advance becomes available.

Witch is taken for arcane spells, cackle and Ceremonial Knife. Having a free familiar on the side is nice as well.

Guardian is taken for heavy armor that advances as fast as most martials until level 19, Taunt (to combo with invisibility and Shield Block), Guarded Advance, Ironclad Fortitude and Mighty Bulwark.

I'm taking ritualist just because I want to play with rituals like binding circle and it fits my character's concept of being a binder (as in the D&D 3e class).

Skill focus is arcana and religion for recall knowledge and spell related stuff and stealth to support high use of invisibility. Crafting is taken to expert to grab Magical Crafting.

The goal for this character is to play whatever I want on any given session while being competent at that role while also taking advantage of the liturgist's 9th level ability. I'm also in a party of nothing but 8 hp classes (we all play what we want, not what is ideal for party composition) so I am taking on the role of "tank" since I'm most suited for it and our party is relying more on evasiveness, control and attrition through healing resources for survivability over any raw durability.

I'm confident the class (before ancestry/archetype consideration) can handle blasting, control, healing or...

Thanks for the build.

That is pretty spot on for how I build. Good memory. I do like to look at different builds to see if I can find anything interesting to try.


Angwa,

I see you use a lot of archetype material like I do. I have not tried Sixth Pillar because I read they nerfed it a bit.

How are you using Cardinal Guardians? I noticed reading the feat that you have to use a spell from a different apparition that affects a target to set up the next spell from a different apparition to benefit from the penalty or bonus.

What are your spell combinations from different apparitions for Cardinal Guardians? It doesn't appear to affect your divine spells, just your apparition spells. I am wondering what players are doing to set up Cardinal Guardians.

I did notice the step and strike thing. Skirmish Strike looks good for the build from Ranger or Rogue archetype. Synergizes well with the level 9 ability even with a bow.


John R. wrote:

Based on my understanding of your group's standard of play (high level, dual class), I don't think this or most any other animist build is going to be considered ideal or on-par with your level of optimization with the goal of killing everything as fast as possible. That being said, this is my build that is attempting to do most everything at least adequately, using free archetype and ancestral paragon rules.

https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=1512483

Broadly, it's a pitborn nephilim elf liturgist animist with the witch, guardian and ritualist archetypes.

Elf is taken for Elf Step and the various skill focused feats, though Elf Step will be traded out quickly when Guarded Advance becomes available.

Witch is taken for arcane spells, cackle and Ceremonial Knife. Having a free familiar on the side is nice as well.

Guardian is taken for heavy armor that advances as fast as most martials until level 19, Taunt (to combo with invisibility and Shield Block), Guarded Advance, Ironclad Fortitude and Mighty Bulwark.

I'm taking ritualist just because I want to play with rituals like binding circle and it fits my character's concept of being a binder (as in the D&D 3e class).

Skill focus is arcana and religion for recall knowledge and spell related stuff and stealth to support high use of invisibility. Crafting is taken to expert to grab Magical Crafting.

The goal for this character is to play whatever I want on any given session while being competent at that role while also taking advantage of the liturgist's 9th level ability. I'm also in a party of nothing but 8 hp classes (we all play what we want, not what is ideal for party composition) so I am taking on the role of "tank" since I'm most suited for it and our party is relying more on evasiveness, control and attrition through healing resources for survivability over any raw durability.

I'm confident the class (before ancestry/archetype consideration) can handle blasting, control, healing or...

You're using Cardinal Guardians and Forest Heart. Forest Heart obviously a great feat.

How are you setting up Cardinal Guardians?

This is what it says:

Quote:
You focus your divine magic to allow your apparitions to work in concert using the magic from one to weaken an enemy against the power of the next. Whenever you succeed at a spell attack with an apparition spell or vessel spell, or when a creature fails its save against such a spell, you gain a +2 status bonus to your spell attack modifier against that creature with spells granted by any of your other apparitions, and it takes a –2 status penalty to its saves against such spells. These benefits last until the end of your next turn.

So I'm reading this as you hit them with say Earth's Bile from Steward and Stone and Fire to set up a bonus to attack or a penalty to their save when you cast vision of death from Echo of Lost Moments.

So what apparition spells are being used to set up and then slam down with the penalty?

Dark Archive

Deriven Firelion wrote:
So what apparition spells are being used to set up and then slam down with the penalty?

Again, this is nothing I have a planned rotation for or anything like that. I'll just cast whatever feels fun or most appropriate dependent on what apparitions I have attuned.

One simple slot efficient combo I can think of for apparitions I almost always have on hand is cycling through earth's bile or ignition and discomfiting whispers or ill omen, utilizing Guarded Advance and liturgist synergy for free sustains and to keep my target close and focused on me, maybe throwing a Taunt out too to either further debuff or keep them close by. It's definitely not using any powerful spells available like phantasmagoria but it's easy and cheap to repeat.

I believe if you can consistently land 2 different apparitions' spells within the (roughly) 2 turn time limit, they each effectively gain the increase in attack or effective DC.

But all of this is probably after I've turned myself invisible.

This likely isn't a combination you'd ever use because your fights would probably be over before I start making progress. My group's combats are usually longer than 3-4 rounds, sometimes by a bit and sometimes by a lot, so I can easily afford these types of set ups.


John R. wrote:
Deriven Firelion wrote:
So what apparition spells are being used to set up and then slam down with the penalty?

Again, this is nothing I have a planned rotation for or anything like that. I'll just cast whatever feels fun or most appropriate dependent on what apparitions I have attuned.

One simple slot efficient combo I can think of for apparitions I almost always have on hand is cycling through earth's bile or ignition and discomfiting whispers or ill omen, utilizing Guarded Advance and liturgist synergy for free sustains and to keep my target close and focused on me, maybe throwing a Taunt out too to either further debuff or keep them close by. It's definitely not using any powerful spells available like phantasmagoria but it's easy and cheap to repeat.

I believe if you can consistently land 2 different apparitions' spells within the (roughly) 2 turn time limit, they each effectively gain the increase in attack or effective DC.

But all of this is probably after I've turned myself invisible.

This likely isn't a combination you'd ever use because your fights would probably be over before I start making progress. My group's combats are usually longer than 3-4 rounds, sometimes by a bit and sometimes by a lot, so I can easily afford these types of set ups.

Thanks for the info. I appreciate the honesty. I've tested some of these combos in action and the set up is more like you stated above where they would be better in longer fights where there is time to get going.

My group uses 4th level invisibility often, so that part I get. High level casters using it in combination with Hidden Mind are very hard to locate. It's easy to pre-buff 4th level invis since it is a static 1 minute duration.

So Earth's Bile or Ignition, then hit them with Discomfiting Whispers or Ill Omen. So the spell combinations are very important for making this work. And it does work with cantrips, so a cantrip can set up a big blaster spell.

So an idea for an AOE might be something like Phantasmal Calamity with a Falling Stars at higher level used with Quicken Apparition spell. It will blow two apparition slots quickly, but should hit hard and the one spell will set the other up.

So for a blaster, I need to be cognizant of layered blasting apparition spells to use in conjunction with Quickened Casting that activate Cardinal Guardians.

Dark Archive

Yeah, just don't forget that Apparition's Quickening dismisses apparitions for the rest of the day so you want to save it for when you are confident you're in the last combat of the day. I would think it would be a great way to help unload on a BBEG as well in a group like yours.


John R. wrote:
Yeah, just don't forget that Apparition's Quickening dismisses apparitions for the rest of the day so you want to save it for when you are confident you're in the last combat of the day. I would think it would be a great way to help unload on a BBEG as well in a group like yours.

Yep. One apparition after the third quicken. Spells start to reduce substantially.

That's one thing about Cardinal Guardians that kind of sucks. I can at least use Apparition Quickening with my divine blast spells as divine gets a few nice ones. But Cardinal Guardians is strictly apparition spells, so very limited.

That's one thing I'm noticing about the animist. It does a lot, but all with hoops to jump through. You have to be real careful about making sure players jump through the hoops or the class may seem overpowered. With the hoops, it's a very good class that requires quite a bit of system mastery.

I imagine this class can be really abused by a player with an inexperienced GM that doesn't read the animist rules too closely.

I could see some GMs banning the animist because they just don't want to take time to learn all the rules for such a fiddly class.

Even the animist reach feat Grasping Spirits is only usable once per 10 minutes. That makes it a no go for me. When I use I reach, I want it when I need it, not once per 10 minutes to use a feature like pulling the target closer when I don't even want that most of the time.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Meredith Nerissa, young merfolk noble who is crazy about humanity and wants to learn everything she can about them, even going so far as to become fluent in several of their languages and to adventure in their lands.

She is intended to be a master of mimicry, social graces, and aural magic.

Her land-dwelling chair is a magical orb of water, controlled with her mind, that can shoot high pressure water streams great distances.

She is my first ever animist character, built just a few days ago. Being so new, she might not meet all your criteria, but being the first animist character from someone who hasn't yet learned of "the good builds," I thought it might at least give you a unique perspective on the class.


Ravingdork wrote:

Meredith Nerissa, young merfolk noble who is crazy about humanity and wants to learn everything she can about them, even going so far as to become fluent in several of their languages and to adventure in their lands.

She is intended to be a master of mimicry, social graces, and aural magic.

Her land-dwelling chair is a magical orb of water, controlled with her mind, that can shoot high pressure water streams great distances.

She is my first ever animist character, built just a few days ago. Being so new, she might not meet all your criteria, but being the first animist character from someone who hasn't yet learned of "the good builds," I thought it might at least give you a unique perspective on the class.

Cool. Thanks. Always fun to look at different builds.


Deriven Firelion wrote:

Angwa,

I see you use a lot of archetype material like I do. I have not tried Sixth Pillar because I read they nerfed it a bit.

How are you using Cardinal Guardians? I noticed reading the feat that you have to use a spell from a different apparition that affects a target to set up the next spell from a different apparition to benefit from the penalty or bonus.

What are your spell combinations from different apparitions for Cardinal Guardians? It doesn't appear to affect your divine spells, just your apparition spells. I am wondering what players are doing to set up Cardinal Guardians.

I did notice the step and strike thing. Skirmish Strike looks good for the build from Ranger or Rogue archetype. Synergizes well with the level 9 ability even with a bow.

Yeah, I wasn't too impressed with the Animist's native feat choices. For me they didn't synergize with the basic chassis and in many cases add more restriction, pressure on your action economy and hoops to jump through, and you already have so many of those.

Cardinal Guardians is decent, but obviously depends on what Apparitions you take along. Any combinations of apparition/vessel spells that forces saves every round will get it rolling and there are many. Depends on what you want to do really. E.g. Mask of Terror, Nymph's Grace and Earth's Bile were spells I remembered using regularly, but obviously there were many more.

Sixth pillar was for maneuvering spell and the stance. At the level I took the stance you could fix being unarmored and +4 AC against reactions was very, very useful.

The biggest weakness with Liturgist and being in the front lines you have to watch out for by the way is getting your mobility shut down. You offload your sustaining actions to movement, so grabs and being swallowed really hurt you. Feather Step is a must-take feat.


Angwa wrote:
Deriven Firelion wrote:

Angwa,

I see you use a lot of archetype material like I do. I have not tried Sixth Pillar because I read they nerfed it a bit.

How are you using Cardinal Guardians? I noticed reading the feat that you have to use a spell from a different apparition that affects a target to set up the next spell from a different apparition to benefit from the penalty or bonus.

What are your spell combinations from different apparitions for Cardinal Guardians? It doesn't appear to affect your divine spells, just your apparition spells. I am wondering what players are doing to set up Cardinal Guardians.

I did notice the step and strike thing. Skirmish Strike looks good for the build from Ranger or Rogue archetype. Synergizes well with the level 9 ability even with a bow.

Yeah, I wasn't too impressed with the Animist's native feat choices. For me they didn't synergize with the basic chassis and in many cases add more restriction, pressure on your action economy and hoops to jump through, and you already have so many of those.

Cardinal Guardians is decent, but obviously depends on what Apparitions you take along. Any combinations of apparition/vessel spells that forces saves every round will get it rolling and there are many. Depends on what you want to do really. E.g. Mask of Terror, Nymph's Grace and Earth's Bile were spells I remembered using regularly, but obviously there were many more.

Sixth pillar was for maneuvering spell and the stance. At the level I took the stance you could fix being unarmored and +4 AC against reactions was very, very useful.

The biggest weakness with Liturgist and being in the front lines you have to watch out for by the way is getting your mobility shut down. You offload your sustaining actions to movement, so grabs and being swallowed really hurt you. Feather Step is a must-take feat.

I did take note of that. The Liturgist animist must stay mobile to take advantage of their sustain advantage. It's why nearly everyone I've read so far takes the Liturgist.

It's another reason why I think the rogue and sorc are stronger. The rogue has at least two highly functional build choices and the sorc has quite a few good bloodlines, but the animist goes from very good with the Liturgist to action starved with any other practice. Only the Liturgist could remotely be seen as S-tier and every other practice is probably B or C-tier due to action starvation trying to use vessel spells.

Maneuvering Spell. That does look very synergistic with the Liturgist and Elf Step.


Deriven Firelion wrote:


It's another reason why I think the rogue and sorc are stronger. The rogue has at least two highly functional build choices and the sorc has quite a few good bloodlines, but the animist goes from very good with the Liturgist to action starved with any other practice. Only the Liturgist could remotely be seen as S-tier and every other practice is probably B or C-tier due to action starvation trying to use vessel spells.

Maneuvering Spell. That does look very synergistic with the Liturgist and Elf Step.

It is true that Liturgist is the only one which can keep up with the action economy of other classes, but from what I experienced I still believe this is still mostly playing catch-up, and looks much more impressive on paper than in high level actual play.

Sure, elf step is 2 sustains for one action, but that is only useful when sustaining twice, which will not be evident with your table's playstyle of opening combat at long range followed by mopping up the stragglers and not allowing much time to refocus. What would be two spells worth bringing into play in such a set-up, even allowing for set-up time before entering encounter mode?

Also, Elf step and maneuvering spell imho do not really synergize in the sense that you would not be using them in the same round for the simple reason that you need to sustain 3 spells to get a payoff. They have different and incompatible uses (namely reducing action cost of sustaining either 1 or 2 spells by 1 action).

Anyway, Animist is a difficult fit for what you describe. You will have to use your high rank slotted spells in the opening volley, followed by at most 1 sustained vessel spell, likely EB for the mop up. You really won't have the gas in the tank to do this in many encounters if you are going to have to play like a Sorceror, Oracle or Wizard.


Angwa wrote:
Deriven Firelion wrote:


It's another reason why I think the rogue and sorc are stronger. The rogue has at least two highly functional build choices and the sorc has quite a few good bloodlines, but the animist goes from very good with the Liturgist to action starved with any other practice. Only the Liturgist could remotely be seen as S-tier and every other practice is probably B or C-tier due to action starvation trying to use vessel spells.

Maneuvering Spell. That does look very synergistic with the Liturgist and Elf Step.

It is true that Liturgist is the only one which can keep up with the action economy of other classes, but from what I experienced I still believe this is still mostly playing catch-up, and looks much more impressive on paper than in high level actual play.

Sure, elf step is 2 sustains for one action, but that is only useful when sustaining twice, which will not be evident with your table's playstyle of opening combat at long range followed by mopping up the stragglers and not allowing much time to refocus. What would be two spells worth bringing into play in such a set-up, even allowing for set-up time before entering encounter mode?

Also, Elf step and maneuvering spell imho do not really synergize in the sense that you would not be using them in the same round for the simple reason that you need to sustain 3 spells to get a payoff. They have different and incompatible uses (namely reducing action cost of sustaining either 1 or 2 spells by 1 action).

Anyway, Animist is a difficult fit for what you describe. You will have to use your high rank slotted spells in the opening volley, followed by at most 1 sustained vessel spell, likely EB for the mop up. You really won't have the gas in the tank to do this in many encounters if you are going to have to play like a Sorceror, Oracle or Wizard.

I've accounted for this.

High level divine spells are good for blasting. Divine list has eclipse burst, sunburst, divine wrath, and a few other spells that can blast fairly well allowing you to use all four slots for decent blasting, though no Channeler's Stance bonus.

And tell me if I'm wrong, but I read this Apparition's Reflection feat. This feat appears to allow you to cast an apparition spell two levels lower than your max level once an hour all day. Is this really how this feat works? I don't think any other class has a feat this powerful.

Most of the other classes can cast a 4 or 5th level slot every minute. But this Spellshape feat would let you cast a 2 levels lower spell all day. Now it does make you confused until the end of your next turn, but that's not the worst thing for a dedicated caster standing back from a battle.


Yeah, sure, if you don't mind being confused in exchange for a R-2 spell and likely losing a round it's okay.

Just to clarify: I think the situation where a R-2 spell in exchange for a round of confusion is the best course of action is vanishingly rare.


Angwa wrote:

Yeah, sure, if you don't mind being confused in exchange for a R-2 spell and likely losing a round it's okay.

Just to clarify: I think the situation where a R-2 spell in exchange for a round of confusion is the best course of action is vanishingly rare.

I don't know. If you're allowed to prebuff, casting invisibility or a heightened truespeech or enlarge can be nice that doesn't take a slot.

Or drop an extra big nuke every hour.

Silver Crusade

Deriven Firelion wrote:

Even the animist reach feat Grasping Spirits is only usable once per 10 minutes. That makes it a no go for me. When I use I reach, I want it when I need it, not once per 10 minutes to use a feature like pulling the target closer when I don't even want that most of the time.

This is one of several places where the animist clashes with your play style.

The system is basically built around the fact that, nearly always, "10 minutes cooldown" is identical to "once per encounter".

Which is very much NOT the case at your table.

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