Pathfinder Second Edition vs Remaster

[Dragnmstr72]

I'm looking to get back in PF after a 10+ year break. I'm confused on what is the difference between 2nd edition and the remaster branded books and which should I pick up?

Thanks!

[Teridax]

To start with the second question, my recommendation would be to pick up the core rulebooks, specifically Player Core and Player Core 2, plus GM Core if you're GMing, as these will give you the essentials of play for the the remastered rules. After that, Monster Core, Monster Core 2, and NPC Core will be especially helpful in fleshing out your adventures if you're running one. There are many other post-remaster books that I personally find excellent and would highly recommend, such as the Tian Xia World Guide, Draconic Codex, and Shining Kingdoms books, though each of those comes down to personal preference.

To answer the first question: the remaster got rid of D&D-related concepts and terminology, and updated several mechanics around the game. There are too many changes to list, but the broad ones are as follows:

1. Alignment is gone. Instead, faiths are based around edicts and anathema, alignment damage is a new damage type called spirit, and certain divine characters can be either holy or unholy, essentially the stand-ins for good or evil (with no replacement for chaos and law).

2. You can Refocus with no restrictions in-between encounters, allowing you to refill your focus pool entirely given enough time. Previously, you could only recover one Focus Point in-between encounters by default.

3. Several classes got substantial reworks: the Wizard's arcane schools now relate to actual academic schools based around certain themes, the Witch's familiar gets a special ability that triggers when you Cast or Sustain a hex, and the Oracle is essentially a completely different class from the original.

This I think is also a good place to ask specific questions about certain topics if you have any. If you're coming in after a 10+ year break, then your last edition must have been 1e, in which case there'll also be quite a few differences there!

[steelhead]

There is no ‘vs’ between the second edition and the remaster. I agree with Teridax that you should stick with the Core books at the start, but don’t get upset if you happen to buy a second edition book that predates the remaster. They can often be used with, at the most, minor adjustments that can even happen during a game on the fly with practice. There is a lot of second edition material, especially monsters, that has not been remastered but can still be used as is.

[Squark]

Teridax wrote:

1. Alignment is gone. Instead, faiths are based around edicts and anathema, alignment damage is a new damage type called spirit, and certain divine characters can be either holy or unholy, essentially the stand-ins for good or evil (with no replacement for chaos and law).

One thing that's worth adding on this note- Holy/Unholy is specifically concerned with the battle between good and evil in the cosmic sense. Sanctification means actively working with/against celestials and fiends. Which is why it's heavily, though not exclusively, tied to faith.

[WatersLethe]

Also, Remaster was kind of forced to happen when D&D threatened the stability of the OGL and Paizo felt they needed to secure their business by moving to the new ORC license, so it wasn't a profit thing, in case you were wondering.

[Blue_frog]

Also, some classes got buffs, which makes them sometimes pretty different to play.

Swashbuckler comes to mind - it now gets panache on a failure.
Oracle lost some flavor, but got a fourth slot which is a huge deal.
Alchemist got revamped - some like it, some don't.
Barbarians, Rogues, got buffs they didn't know they needed.
Psychic dedication got nerfed, indirectly nerfing magus.

And so on, and so forth.

[Arcaian]

Dragnmstr72 wrote:

I'm confused on what is the difference between 2nd edition and the remaster branded books and which should I pick up?

For lines like the Lost Omens or Adventure Path lines, where the focus is more on lore/setting info/adventure content, get whichever ones are interesting for you. Most haven't been - and don't need to be - updated, and at worst there'll be a slight changing in terms used in the Remaster. For mechanically-focused books, like the Core Rulebook (now Player Core 1), or Advanced Player's Guide (now Player Core 2), get the Remastered books - it's the most modern version of PF2, and although they are overwhelmingly similar, the Remastered books are what you'll find in online tools, discussions, and expectations for what will be used in a new game for most players at this point.

[Dragnmstr72]

Thank you all for the information. I played/GM'ed 1E for several years. I bought the 2E Core Rulebook when it first came out with full intentions of learning the new system and then life happened and gaming kind of went by the wayside and the book sat collecting dust. So when I decided to get back into things and saw player and GM Cores I didn't know if those were splat books or replacements for the Core Rulebook

[moosher12]

I'll repost most of the mechanical differences that won't be self-explanatory in your classes. It also works as a rough conversion guide for bringing various legacy entries up to speed:

• Alignment to Sanctification: Alignment no longer exists. Instead of choosing an Alignment, you may dictate any number of edicts and anathema that bind your character’s actions. Each Alignment was replaced with a corresponding Sanctification: Good Alignment to Holy Sanctification, Evil Alignment to Unholy Sanctification. Lawful and Chaotic alignments were removed, and not associated with any sanctifications. Each Sanctification has its own corresponding trait, and interacts with abilities with the Sanctified trait. Alignment damage was replaced with spirit damage, and alignment resistance was replaced with resistance to spirit damage and resistance to attacks with the corresponding Sanctification trait. See Sanctification Overhaul on page 41 for more information.
• No Spell Components: Spell components were removed. Spells with material or somatic components instead have the Manipulate trait. Spells with a verbal component instead have the Concentrate trait. Spell Component Pouches were removed from the game. Primal Symbols and Religious Symbols are no longer necessary to cast spells for Clerics and Druids, but may have other uses.
• No Spell Schools: Spell Schools no longer exist, and you need not keep track of a Legacy spell’s school. Wizards replaced Spell Schools with Arcane Schools. Arcane Schools contain spell curriculums which act as more freeform spell schools defined by a given theme, allowing overlap of one spell over multiple Spell Schools. Drop any Spell School traits (Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Necromancy, Transmutation) from any spells when converting. The Illusion trait was an exception that survived into the Remaster.
• No Activation Components: Item activation components were simplified. The Command component was replaced with the Concentrate trait, and no longer has the Auditory trait. The Envision component was replaced with the Concentrate trait. The Interact component was replaced with the Manipulate trait.
• Positive/Negative to Vitality/Void: Positive effects are now Vitality effects, and Negative effects are now Void effects.

[Nightwhisper]

Dragnmstr72 wrote:

Thank you all for the information. I played/GM'ed 1E for several years. I bought the 2E Core Rulebook when it first came out with full intentions of learning the new system and then life happened and gaming kind of went by the wayside and the book sat collecting dust. So when I decided to get back into things and saw player and GM Cores I didn't know if those were splat books or replacements for the Core Rulebook

If you're familiar with the DnD 3e to 3.5e change, the base 2e and 2e Remaster change is similar in scope. Once you know the commonly occurring differences, you can probably run material from one with the other. Personally, I'd put the difference as smaller than the difference between 3.5e and Pathfinder 1e overall, but opinions might differ on that.

[The Raven Black]

The rules are available for free on Archives of Nethys and the Pathbuilder 2e app is an awesome tool for quickly creating PCs.

[Claxon]

Dragnmstr72 wrote:

I'm looking to get back in PF after a 10+ year break. I'm confused on what is the difference between 2nd edition and the remaster branded books and which should I pick up?

Thanks!

What I'm about to say, I say only because I'm not sure if it was cleanly and clearly said already.

PF2 Remaster is 90% the same as the base PF2.

The remaster came about primarily due to shenanigans from Wizards of the Coast at the Time, which threatened the ability for any company that was using Open Game License at the time to be able to continue to operate.

So, while the team scrubbed away any remnants from the OGL that existed in the base PF2 (like alignment) they also made some changes to how certain things functioned. Basically doing some errata at the same time, because they were already going to reprint the book. You could honestly mix and match the two (remaster vs non) with little problem as long as you understand generally what the changes are/were.

In any event, I would recommend picking up the remaster stuff if you were set on buying things, but know that you don't necessarily need to with Archives of Nethys.

[Maya Coleman]

This is all really good advice here that I would have given myself! I appreciate you all and this community so much!

[thaX]

Claxon wrote:

Dragnmstr72 wrote:

I'm looking to get back in PF after a 10+ year break. I'm confused on what is the difference between 2nd edition and the remaster branded books and which should I pick up?

Thanks!

What I'm about to say, I say only because I'm not sure if it was cleanly and clearly said already.

PF2 Remaster is 90% the same as the base PF2.

The remaster came about primarily due to shenanigans from Wizards of the Coast at the Time, which threatened the ability for any company that was using Open Game License at the time to be able to continue to operate.

So, while the team scrubbed away any remnants from the OGL that existed in the base PF2 (like alignment) they also made some changes to how certain things functioned. Basically doing some errata at the same time, because they were already going to reprint the book. You could honestly mix and match the two (remaster vs non) with little problem as long as you understand generally what the changes are/were.

In any event, I would recommend picking up the remaster stuff if you were set on buying things, but know that you don't necessarily need to with Archives of Nethys.

One thing I will say about this is that the Remaster was going to happen anyway, the OGL scandal only hastened the release schedule.

[moosher12]

Yesn't, the original plan as far as I recall was that it would have been a single book to apply rule change suggestions, akin to Pathfinder Unchained. And this would have been an OGL book toward the end of Pathfinder's life cycle. Only a few classes that were considered in particular need of updates might have gotten a revamp (I'd imagine no more than 4 classes), playable as alternate versions of their originals. But beyond those suggestions, the other classes would have stayed the same except for the occasional errata until PF3E. Ultimately, it never would have amounted anywhere close to the scale of what we got. We never would have gotten remaster books perse. As such rules would have been going forward in 3E.