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I struggled to write this post, but I feel like I have managed to communicate my concerns.
“If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter”, very much applies here.
Initial reaction
When I started reading the class I got excited by hardlight and hologram sidebar, because that is a rather cool sci fi element I am interested in. Unfortunately shortly after that element got me excited the class introduces itself as something that admittedly feels like a very specialized class/archetype, something that I would have expected to be released several years after the Player Core and not … while the system only has 8 classes.
That does not mean that the final result is not going to be appealing just that I and I guess some others might have been looking forward to classes that serve in a different role, after all this is the 3rd Starfinder class that uses Charisma as a key ability score.
Weirdly if you skip past most of the spotlight and role rules… There are some cool hardlight effects in there, and I would love if that was a legit way to play the class without really interacting with the roles and spotlight.
After all if you work in with sculptures, setting them up and having them lit properly is also an expression of art, I would like to see more support for players that want to engage with this aspect of the class please.
Complexity and interruptions
My main issue as someone that GMs significantly more than he gets to play is the complexity of this class at the table and the mental load/chores this add to the GM’s workload.
I have run PF2 and SF2 at various levels and know that these games can get rather fiddly especially if you include certain spells, and if your party has a lot of reactions that trigger reliably .
The design of this class includes a lot of potential interruptions to the game as the Luminary needs to move the spotlight, and this can’t really be automated because it is a choice to move it. Once you have more than one spotlight to move things can get even more complex.
A lot of the reactions in the game have a rather specific trigger, like getting hit, a champion’s reaction, counterspell and GMs will know to give the player a moment to react when they come up… the Luminary at level 3 gets a reaction to Set a Spotlight and that triggers at the start of every creature’s turn that does not currently have the spotlight.
Since roles and spotlights matter and might affect how the GM or other players can resolve their turn.. so the start of most turns will have a tiny pause to see if the Luminary wants to use their reaction… and those delays add up and are a negative change to the game.
The class also has a number of other reactions and gets more reactions at higher levels, we saw a the potential for a similar setup for the Envoy class during the original playtest and it was not a good experience for the table.
Offline, I could see a player mark their spotlight visa markers/token rings etc. and a substantial set of printed out cards to manage the buffs, and debuffs/roles, though it gets more complicated once players unlock the ability to adjust them.
Online, at least in the VVT of my choice, a lot of those roles and (despite me trying otherwise) the spotlight a lot of this will need to be applied to the enemies by the GM…. long term macros etc. might help but that is not a level of work that I am personally interested in adding to my plate. Unless the workload changes I am not looking forward to having that class in my games, this is supposed to be fun and not a second job.
I hope development finds a way to play the class in a fashion that is less complex and involves fewer interruptions.
Theming and flavor:
This never really bothered me that much before but I feel like the stylings and flavor that is injected into this class really is less agnostic than it has been for other classes like Operative and Soldier.
While I have seen a lot of rather silly Starfinder characters over the years, that usually involved a player taking something serious like an operative and turning it into a cosplaying streamer that likes to look tougher than he really is (my own character). In SFS1 characters like that often included fun hireling that added more RP and expression potential which also involves adding flavor to a rather straightforward option.
For the first time, though I would not be surprised if this is a trend, the class already tends to be a bit ridiculous, maybe we all got over the point that bards just start singing to inspire their allies in battle, but I have heard similar feedback from some locals. In a serious adventure, where players are essentially sent on special ops missions… bringing the fashionista certainly creates a level of narrative dissonance.
The roles mechanic might also interact negatively with other peoples RP, and perception, people do tend to complain about other players messing with their presentation, but getting cast in the Romance role… feel different to that.
Of course the way things are written the player can likely not even accept the role at all, but I suspect that might cause unnecessary friction, where some generic “protective hardlight effect that needs the light to activate” might be more palatable.
As is, it almost feels like a group needs to buy into having this class at the table (somewhat similar to the Commander class), which is not really something that applies to most classes.
Feast like Comic Relief have a very real chance to really mess with the tone of an adventure or the GMs style of running the game.
Feats like Blooper inject the same sort of comedic tone into the game and … … I have issues with the idea of the BBEG slipping on a banana peel, as that also has the potential for changing the tone.
Right now I have listed a couple of reasons why I would be apprehensive at having the class at the table and if I have some input which players try to play it, but on the flipside… I am not seeing a lot of reasons to have the class present.
Supporters like bards have historically always felt like a third wheel or a 5th player, but considering the classes and the demands of most adventuring parties … I think the luminary is not really adding a lot at this point, any only a single platform adds some much needed healing in a system without a lot of focus spell healing.
I do not expect the tech core classes to add a lot of healing options either.
I guess if you have access to everything that exists in PF2 to fill out the large gaps Starfinder currently has (seriously summoning spells just do not work without PF2 at this point, Alien Core just did not cover enough basics/level ranges) this is just yet another class to throw on the pile.
If you are playing org play or your GM is just not allowing PF2 options… I am not sure if the Luminary is adding a lot of the things I have seen people asking/hope for.
Break A Leg… I have gotten through all the witch and misfortune material in PFS1 and I think that effects like that are pretty miserable. Players certainly seem to curse every time an adventure includes a lesser death, and for the GM, it gets old really fast particularly if the effect is applied without a saving throw or the incapacitation trait.
Conclusion
Right now I would not be willing to let a player play this class in one of my non-org play games, and while I have the right to not allow the class at the table before it is actually printed and published properly - I am more than apprehensive for the final release.
I really want to like the class, I even have a character concept but, the current state of things is not something I have the spoons to engage with any more, and I am optimistic that development changes that.
Complexity and interruptions
My main issue as someone that GMs significantly more than he gets to play is the complexity of this class at the table and the mental load/chores this add to the GM’s workload.
I have run PF2 and SF2 at various levels and know that these games can get rather fiddly especially if you include certain spells, and if your party has a lot of reactions that trigger reliably .The design of this class includes a lot of potential interruptions to the game as the Luminary needs to move the spotlight, and this can’t really be automated because it is a choice to move it. Once you have more than one spotlight to move things can get even more complex.
A lot of the reactions in the game have a rather specific trigger, like getting hit, a champion’s reaction, counterspell and GMs will know to give the player a moment to react when they come up… the Luminary at level 3 gets a reaction to Set a Spotlight and that triggers at the start of every creature’s turn that does not currently have the spotlight.
Since roles and spotlights matter and might affect how the GM or other players can resolve their turn.. so the start of most turns will have a tiny pause to see if the Luminary wants to use their reaction… and those delays add up and are a negative change to the game.
The class also has a number of other reactions and gets more reactions at higher levels, we saw a the potential for a similar setup for the Envoy class during the original playtest and it was not a good experience for the table.Offline, I could see a player mark their spotlight visa markers/token rings etc. and a substantial set of printed out cards to manage the buffs, and debuffs/roles, though it gets more complicated once players unlock the ability to adjust them.
Online, at least in the VVT of my choice, a lot of those roles and (despite me trying otherwise) the spotlight a lot of this will need to be applied to the enemies by the GM…. long term macros etc. might help but that is not a level of work that I am personally interested in adding to my plate. Unless the workload changes I am not looking forward to having that class in my games, this is supposed to be fun and not a second job.
I hope development finds a way to play the class in a fashion that is less complex and involves fewer interruptions.
Yep, this class sure has main character syndrome.
thematically correct, but very disruptive.
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It kind of sounds like the main issue you're facing with the mechanics is just that the class is brand new so there's no automation tool built for it yet.
I can't really agree on the flavor thing. Flavor is what you make of it and the Luminary is a tech-y buffer/debuffer. Whether it's ridiculous or not is entirely up to the GM or player... you even listed an example of another class being played in a more ridiculous fashion.
I will agree that in the current state the class is somewhat anemic, but the best way to fix that would be adding more, not stripping it down.
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I also significantly prefer when character options are presented as either somewhat generic, so you can paste your own flavor atop of it, or as diverse so myriad tones and stories can be imagined without having to tonally shift things yourself.
So much of the flavor of the class as presented is in your face flamboyant and ME focused.
Class reads like Firebrands in Space.
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For me this class represents everything wrong with games like starfinder2 everything is watered down to be the most clowny/ridicolous charachter imaginable. Also the settings at first have some serious background but get sprinkled with a sugar coat everywhere so everything feels like a birthday trip for a 8 year old and this class fits perfectly into the current state of the game. Well played
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I agree with your whole comment, but highlighting a few things to add to them.
The Luminary talks about Spotlights and Movie Genres as core class mechanics to make you really feel like you're pulling everyone into a big production during a fight.
To make everyone feel involved I like the idea of letting the other players pick their own roles during the Luminary's preprations. It's also a great way to encourage team work. Just becuse the Luminary has the tools doesen't mean they have to be the only one making all dessions, the whole party can be in on the production.
It's also really good roleplaying help for new players, as well. I've been playing SF2E with someone with no TTRPG experience, and I've been really impressed with how often the built-in flavor helps give you a springboard for ideas. I like that the Luminary is pushing you to be a bit more dramatic, extravagant, and pop culture conscious than the average class.
For the Great Absalom Relay, I used a fake microphone to do interviews. Just pointing a microphone at someone gave them the spotlight, and players who normally didn't do much role-playing really got into character and had fun with it. I'm tempted to use a flashlight to point out players or their pawns in the spotlight on their turn.
The Luminary feels like it couldn't be a class in just any scifi RPG. It feels very distinct to the tone and personality that makes SF2E more interesting than a lot of the competition.
One thing I really like about Starfinder is the fun side makes it feel more real and easier for my character to feel like they have a life outside of adventuring. Instead of just going from fight to fight, my character is looking to get some downtime to go to a Strawberry Machine Cake concert or go see a brutaris game. Sometimes this is just fiction, but sometimes it becomes part of an adventure. Either way, it's pop culture that gives you something to talk about with other characters.
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For me this class represents everything wrong with games like starfinder2 everything is watered down to be the most clowny/ridicolous charachter imaginable. Also the settings at first have some serious background but get sprinkled with a sugar coat everywhere so everything feels like a birthday trip for a 8 year old and this class fits perfectly into the current state of the game. Well played
Since buying clown shoes is optional in the game, I'm wondering what your idea of the least clowny/ridiculous character imaginable is.
The spotlight only has to move (or at 3rd level use a reaction to restore) every two turns. That’s once per combat most of the time.