I'm playing my first PF 1e campaign ever and due to some unfortunate circumstances with a Shemhazian demon, my lovely and not-at-all annoying Gnome Oracle has passed away. The same battle claimed the life of our Magus as well, leaving the Wizard and Bloodrager in dire need of help.
I've been thinking of bringing in a melee cleric of Iomedae. I want the 9th level casting so Warpriest is out of question and I don't really enjoy the idea of a reach cleric. I imagine my character to be a stoic, battle tested Mendevian Priest who mainly does his crusading by using a longsword as a two-handed weapon.
My character will be entering the campaign at level 13 (we are inside the Runeforge, playing Rise of the Runelords).
We aren't really a min/maxed group (apart from the magus critting well over 100 points of damage per turn) and none of us have any experience from higher levels of Pathfinder. The Wizard is the most experienced player of us (having loads of experience from D&D 3/3.5) and is the swiss army knife of the group. The Bloodrager wields a big stick. The Magus player is thinking of bringing in a sword&board style character.
- Can a melee cleric work as a striker/DPS? After the magus died, our main damage threat is now gone. I don't expect to be anywhere near his damage but it would be nice if I could do at least a decent amount of damage.
- Would it be better to bring in a more support/caster oriented cleric instead of a melee cleric? Given that there will be at least two melee characters in the group even if I'm more caster oriented.
We roll for stats and my results were: 8, 9, 12, 15, 16, 17.
The build so-far, there are some holes in it... What would you suggest I take? What would you change?
Build:
Race: Human
Level: 13
Class: Mendevian Priest of Iomedae
Domain: Tactics
STR 17 (+2 Racial, +1 8th lvl, +1 12th lvl) -> 21 + Belt of Giant Strength
DEX 8
CON 16
INT 12
WIS 15 + Headband of Inspired Wisdom
CHA 9 (+1 4th level increase) -> 10
Traits: Purity of Faith, ?
Drawbacks: ?
Feats:
1: Combat Casting, Toughness (Human bonus feat)
3: Power Attack
4: Shake it off (Mendevian Priest bonus feat)
5: Weapon focus (Longsword)
7: Disciple of the Sword
8: Outflank (Mendevian Priest bonus feat)
9: Greater Weapon Focus (Longsword)
11: Divine Interference
13: Greater Weapon Specialization (Longsword)
The weapon I will be using is Adamantine Longsword +1, with Training (Improved Critical) and Grayflame enhancements. Greater Magic Weapon to make it a +3 (or +4 with Grayflame).
If things look rough, I can use my Tactics domain power to grab a Quick Draw feat and take my Quickdraw Shield from my back and fight a little bit more defensively.
Shared Training spell to grant my teamwork feats for my team.
What do you think? Is this a passable character? Should I do a caster/support instead?
{paraphrased}... Shemhazian demon killed two of our party, my Gnome Oracle & Magus, leaving the Wizard and Bloodrager...
I've been thinking of bringing in a melee cleric of Iomedae, I imagine a stoic, battle tested Mendevian Priest who mainly does his crusading by using a longsword as a two-handed weapon.
My character will be entering the campaign at level 13 (we are inside the Runeforge, playing Rise of the Runelords).
** spoiler build omitted **...
looks okay. [8,9,12,15,16,17] not so good to [17+2,8,16,12,15,9] human cleric.
I'll point you two other ways that keep some divine spells...
Mage-killer build wizard with 2 monk levels for combat, defense, saves, mainly to combat other spellcasters. This will leverage your existing Wizard as you can share spells and cut costs. A BondObj amulet will give you flexibility and at 13th a Amulet of Spell Mastery (22->11k) for +6 SplLvls.
Wiz Diviner & Clr arch V Plgrm 1 a build showing how to do the Wiz-Clr build. Elion*(longbow), Gorum, Smiad*(greatsword), Feronia(bastardsword){2Wpn Fgt}, Keltheald*(halberd), Groteus*, Vale(hvy flail), Chaldira*(shortsword). Best options for Varisian Pilgrim(*). Here you'll be one or two handing a bastard sword, two gladius, a big greatsword, or bows (via Erastil, Elion).
Review Samsaran race [9,16,12-2,17+2,15+2,8]{20pt buy would have been better} with Mythic past lives to net a few witch spells from First to Fourth, Abil gains +1 Str then +Int. Aasimar{as your abil scores need help} or Human are good choices just arrange abilities as needed (racial SLAs typically need Cha 11+). You'll get headband for Int, belt for Str. Buffering cap/Aegis of Recovery with ablative barrier:C3, mage armor:C1, shield:A1, and a mix of blink:T3, mirror image:I3 will keep criticals from killing you off.
As always, Point-blank & Precise vs Wpn Finesse & Wpn Focus.
Otherwise you can apply some of the above ideas and equipment to your [16,8,15,9,17+2,12] human cleric build.
The problem with the Melee cleric is they are a medium BAB class that does not have proficiency in either heavy armor or martial weapons. The lack of martial weapon proficiency can be reduced by a good deities favored weapon, but it still means they do not have all the options. A character with martial weapon proficiency gets proficiency with some decent ranged weapons, that can be useful when melee is not an option. They also have no built-in way quickly and easily boost their combat ability. This puts them at a real disadvantage for combat especially at higher levels.
Taking power attack on a cleric reduces their chance to hit even more. A cleric with power attack is effectively a ½ BAB class when using power attack. A warpreist can get away with it because they have things that can boost them up to or past a full BAB class. Taking weapon focus, and latter greater weapon focus while casting divine favor as a swift action more than makes up for their lower BAB. Your build does take those feats, but it is using up a lot of your feats. That means you cannot take any caster boosting feats.
Having 9th level spells is great but with such a low WIS the DC of your saves are going to be lower than normal. The lower WIS also means you will get less spells per level because you do not get the extra bonus spells a higher WIS grants.
Melee focused cleric is more of a low-level option. As they level up their spell casting becomes more efficient than melee, but that means you need to be spending your resources to boost your casting, or you will not be able to perform as expected.
1st campaign ever? APL 13 party, rolled stats, non-optimized, and the GM put you up against a CR 16 Daemon. you need to have a talk with your GM about game expectations.
I know you asked about a melee cleric, but I'll mention the cleric/hinterlander build. It's a solid archer as well as a full caster.
You take 5 levels of cleric, then switch over to hinterlander. You'll want to worship Erastil to get access to longbows, so you might as well be an elf.
The advantages of this build are:
- Hinterlander is a full BAB class, so you can actually hit things.
- You only lose 1 level of spell casting.
- With the feat Erastil's Blessing you can use your Wis modifier instead of Dex for archery.
- Since you're 13th level, you already have Imbue Arrow.
- If you can fit in the two feats: Favored Prestige Class and Prestigious Spellcaster, you get that level of cleric spell casting back.
- If you can't fit in those two feats, the trait Magical Knack will get you back the spell DC progression.
The problem with the Melee cleric is they are a medium BAB class that does not have proficiency in either heavy armor or martial weapons.
A cleric with the Mendevian Priest archetype is proficient with all simple weapons, light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, shields (except tower shields), and the favored weapon of her deity.
That said, Mysterious Stranger is correct about the Power Attack feat. There are spells you can use to offset that penalty, but a large benefit of those spells is to close down the gap between the cleric's medium BAB and the high AC/CMD of more powerful enemies.
Likewise, if you're not going to prioritize your Wisdom, and you're already working with an archetype that has Diminished Spellcasting as a feature, you will need to do a deep dive into the cleric spell list and identify the spells that allow you to (A) empower your allies in combat and (B) make your character more viable in melee combat when you're not healing. Divine Favor, Heroism, Divine Power, and Greater Heroism are great ways to improve accuracy and stack damage. Minute/level spells like Weapon of Awe that close the gap on your damage dealt while also debuffing enemies are low-key very good. Greater Stunning Barrier is terrific because while most powerful enemies might still make their Will save the spell will force a saving throw for every hit until it has stunned a number of creatures equal to your caster level.
As far as feats go, you need to really prioritize what your character's priorities are, and to what extent your limited number of feats serve them and your character's theme.
Is, for example, Toughness--and the 13 HP it nets you--going to be the means by which your cleric survives in melee combat? Or will it be your healing magic?
Power Attack nets you +9 damage (and will top out at +12), but makes it a challenge to hit with your iterative attack unless you're consistently able to buff your character with the right spells. Champion of Righteousness, on the other hand, grants your character a free +2 damage bonus against chaotic OR evil creatures, and a +4 damage bonus against chaotic evil creatures. And with the affirmation system, you can pack a +2 bonus per die of channel energy.
Alternatively, Selective Channeling would require you to reprioritize your ability scores, but it would allow you to exempt living enemies from your character's healing. Purifying Channel would allow you to deal more damage via your channel energy to a single enemy than your character might achieve with 1-2 attacks--while also healing your allies, without provoking attacks of opportunity.
These are just suggestions, of course. Good luck with shaping your character!
If I continue with the melee cleric idea and focus on buffing and healing spells, the 19 WIS shouldn't be a problem but I probably should ditch the Power Attack and maybe toughness for something else.
But then again, more casting oriented (or hinterlander) would probably be more impactful in the long run...
Thank you all for the replies, gave me some food for thought :)
Campaign: RotRL {read the public AP description}.
Party: Wiz, Bloodrager, plus two new.
That's the general challenge and target.
Runelords are high level spellcasters(thassalonian wizards). Each wizard specializes in a school of "sin" magic. Throw in some sin templates on likely allies for terrain and that's a good guess.
You don't have a stealth party so that strategy is out.
It's not an undead challenge (no spoilers or surprises there).
So what do you need strategically? That's the real question.
PrCs in general are not effective but do have RP flavor(can you say NPC?). Multiclassing is better to snag what you want.
IMO Cleric is a backup martial and party support plus some undead handling.
Cleric is 3/4 BAB and "to hit" suffers more with increasing level so by 15th you've hit 75% of it. Divine spell list is mostly protection/some buffing, healing, undead/Evil control (assuming the PC is Good/Neutral).
Most healing can be done with time and a wand of infernal healing.
Varisian Pilgrim can use his blessings on the party at range which is excellent support! Nobody is gonna complain about having Luck or Travel domains.
Again if you really want a cleric, review the Guides to see if you can create the cleric you want.
I think another wizard(diviner) is excellent as your party will have two cannons. Dipping into cleric opens up the divine spell list for item activation AND gives the PC a decent weapon (still half BAB so don't let it go to your head). Ranged combat is better for spellcasters than melee as Dex>Str. In melee your job is to busy/delay an opponent until your bloodrager can come over and kill them. Review Cypher Script feat as it lessens the wizard tax by half (saving $5k+) and leaves Blessed Book ($10k) as optional.
Magus(crit-fishing melee), Arcanist(Dim Slide!), Unch Summoner(eidolon & summons) all bring high power at range tactics and work with Wizard.
Druid, Ranger, Skald with a mountain/cave abilities would be good.
Paladin is always a good choice for tough melee combatants.
Gunslinger(pistolero/musketmaster) are two at range choices. Choose Skald/Bard for buffing or another gunslinger if you do this. Your bloodrager will handle anything that gets within 10ft.
If I continue with the melee cleric idea and focus on buffing and healing spells, the 19 WIS shouldn't be a problem but I probably should ditch the Power Attack and maybe toughness for something else.
But then again, more casting oriented (or hinterlander) would probably be more impactful in the long run...
Thank you all for the replies, gave me some food for thought :)
If you go the casting route then give the Stargazer prestige class a look, it borders on too-good-to-be-true. You gain:
skills increase to 4+int
hp drops to d6 -- so this is not compatible with a melee combat role
a familiar
two witch hexes (the first at level 1!)
stars domain
two oracle revelations
a bunch of "sidereal arcana," all of which are rather nice.
Oh, and both your spell casting and domains advance with each stargazer level. It's nuts I tell you. But not if you want to be in melee.
