I know some folks have brought up issues with the AC of the Daredevil, but that seems pretty average to me, with it kind of interesting that the class is being pushed hard away from shields.
But a Martial class that ends with Master Fortitude, Master Reflex and Expert will seems pretty much caster bad, but without any of the big special abilities that martial classes like the Commander (or the play test Runesmith) have. Combined with the 8 HP and the abilities that all seem like they are designed to get you targeted a lot, it feels like this class is very, very glass cannon-ish, but without really having much of a cannon in the first place.
Like, I think it is a really cool class concept, and I really like most of the abilities in it, but I am failing to see what having bottom of the barrel martial defenses have bought this class.
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Now that I think of it, if a Daredevil's thing is they are hearty and, well, a daredevil. You'd think they could have legendary Reflex and Fortitude. Especially Reflex.
The one thing I was wondering is if the fact that, generally, legendary saves come with critical failure mitigation made the developers shy away from it on the high risk, High reward class. But I think it would be better if the class did get legendary in both fort and reflex, and just didn't get the crit failure mitigation ability, if that was what was holding it back.
This is the class that conceptually should be rushing into the room that might be trapped afterall, and the fact that their saves are terrible and they have no HP is going to make that kind of brashness a terrible idea.
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I don't disagree. It seems the Daredevil is very dependent on positioning and mobility to position itself away from AoEs and possibly range itself away from whoever can do AoEs.
I think something we need to provide feedback to the devs is specifically about ENVIRONMENT.
A large open space with sparse columns/trees lends to being able to spread out and push the enemy away, but limits the amount of Props available to the Daredevil.
But an enclosed space which offers the Daredevil lots of walls to slam enemies into, means the Daredevil is very open to attacks due to mobility being hampered.
I'm not fully sure 8HP is the right direction. I'm sure we have an idea on what would happen in situations, I think we'll need to do due diligence to reinforce those facts to the developers in our feedback.
I am hypothesizing the Daredevill will fare poorly in enclosed spaces at higher levels due to being fragile amongst AoE.
Perhaps simply making the class 12 HP per level would be a solution to all these problems without significantly altering the class itself?
It would still be a Daredevil class, requiring a lot of dexterity due to the use of light armor, with saves that don't stand out in any way, all reflecting the risks it takes, but with enough HP to indicate that it can survive the worst of it all and come back alive.
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Even if getting hit is kind of the point, the class should have more HP anyways, more so if its supposedly getting hit constantly. That's the same rationale of why barbarians have 12 + Con HP, because they are reckless (even though the other recklesness aspect, the -1 to AC when raging, was luckily removed).
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It's not that uncommon for a martial to get 2 master saves and one expert. You mentioned commander, but alchemist, fighter, gunslinger, inventor, and the two wave casters don't get legendary proficiency in any save either.
It's not that uncommon for a martial to get 2 master saves and one expert. You mentioned commander, but alchemist, fighter, gunslinger, inventor, and the two wave casters don't get legendary proficiency in any save either.
Alchemist is arguably closer to a caster in chassis, and fighter and gunslinger have legendary weapon proficiencies.
The inventor...yeah, I wouldn't expect much.
I am not personally worried about AC, mobility can compensate AC. I am worried about reflex and fortitude saves in particular.
Fighter gets legendary attacks and a pretty good will save booster, even if their will saves are not great otherwise.
Commander gets legendary DC and these tactics that are nearly spell like in their versatility. They also are not a class that should be deliberately doing risky things that could easily set off traps.
Alchemist gets all kinds of ways to mitigate saving throws and defenses.
The gun slinger is a ranged class that can stay out of most air situations.
Wave casters get spells that can all help off set this stuff.
I have largely ignored the inventor as a class and will probably continue to do so.
But the daredevil does not have any cool unique niche that replaces a legendary defense of some kind, in my opinion. They aren’t better at damage than a rogue or monk really. They don’t get extra skills, they are only a 8 HO class. They are going to get shredded by auras, emanations, and area effects. Casters are going to eat them alive.
One alternative that could be interesting is if they got a reaction where they could use acrobatics instead of their reflex for one save or athletics instead of fortitude.
Regarding saves: Perhaps it would make sense to have Galvanized Mobility apply to Ref saves as well as AC vs. reactions. IMO, that would fit in with class concept without including the Legendary risk mitigation for critical failures.
Regarding hit points: I think it could make sense for Adrenaline to add temporary hit points equal to class level (1/2 class level for the multiclass archetype) until the start of the next turn. Considering that hit points are an abstraction that includes "stamina" and adrenaline boosts stamina IRL.
Regarding props/terrain: An earth/wood kineticist would probably be one of the "best buddies" to have in the party with a daredevil, creating terrain that could be used as props.
I also thought about a Constitution KAS daredevil that used its Con modifier for Athletics and (maybe) Acrobatics checks.
I could also think it would be fun if, rather than borrow from the old 1e brawler in the unarmed combatant aspects, borrow its unarmored aspects and allow it to add its Constitution modifier instead of Dexterity for the purposes of AC. Wrestler (both the PF2e archetype and overall concept) is clearly one of the inspiration for the class and those are people known to be shirtless lol. It could be represented as their bodies being hardened from the constant risks they take.
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Enduring Adrenaline should be a level 1 class feature. That would help survivability without just being "give more base HP" because it's encouraging you to get adrenaline, which is what the class wants you to do.
As it stands now it comes far too late to matter.
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I've been thinking (and fiddling around in tests) and I think instead, the Daredevil needs to look at the Kineticist, not the Swashbuckler on how to do this "combo system" of being "ON" and unleashing its power before being turned OFF" at its beginning turn. It's essentially an Overflow Martial Maneuver Kineticist.
i feel like there's a more coherent version that looks to the Kineticist by making it a CON class that applies Class DC to Stunts or CON KAS to Athletics/Acrobatics and also auto scales either Athletics or Acrobatics.
Because then, you use Audacious Combat to only apply to Strikes and make it match the results of a +1 STR lvl. 1 Daredevil (instead of +7/+3/-1 for all parts, it's only +7 to your maneuver, then +3/-1 if striking. The Daredevil right now WANTS to make maneuvers and will do it at its highest of +7. Then Audacious Combat makes your Press Strikes match a standard martial. To solve the lack of STR to damage, you use Stunt Damage to add to your Strikes (or pushing any enemy into a Prop/Wall).
This ties a lot of their abilities together and also just drops the whole issue of STR/Light Armor, because it's never worked before and it will never work now.
This also solves the Daredevil's 8HP issue, making it more like a 12HP class. Can even make Risky more like a Burn mechanic that got dropped from 2e Kineticist.
So ya, I guess that's my philosophical armchair idea.