| deniablereply@proton.me |
Is there a specific point in which the requirement for a feat is checked for it to be used or must it always be met?
To be able to use the Twin Takedown feat the requirement is "You are wielding two melee weapons, each in a different hand", and it says "[...]. Make two Strikes against your hunted prey, one with each of the required weapons. [...]"
Now, if the user were to have two shortswords to start, struck with the one in the first hand but lost it for some reason would they still be able to continue with the second strike, even if they wouldn't meet the requirement anymore?
What if instead the user had two daggers with a returning rune on each? It would meet the requirement at the start (and also doesn't specify whether the strike is melee or ranged) but as soon as the first strike is made the thrown weapon would become ranged and "fail" the check. Then as the strike ends the dagger would fly back in the hand of the user, becoming a melee weapon again and thus the requirement would again be met for the second strike.
So, if the requirement must be met for the whole duration then you wouldn't be able to strike again in the first case and you wouldn't be able to throw the weapon in the second case, but if this weren't the case and the condition must be met only at the start you would be to make the second strike and use a thrown weapon.
| QuidEst |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Is there a specific point in which the requirement for a feat is checked for it to be used or must it always be met?
To be able to use the Twin Takedown feat the requirement is "You are wielding two melee weapons, each in a different hand", and it says "[...]. Make two Strikes against your hunted prey, one with each of the required weapons. [...]"
Now, if the user were to have two shortswords to start, struck with the one in the first hand but lost it for some reason would they still be able to continue with the second strike, even if they wouldn't meet the requirement anymore?
What if instead the user had two daggers with a returning rune on each? It would meet the requirement at the start (and also doesn't specify whether the strike is melee or ranged) but as soon as the first strike is made the thrown weapon would become ranged and "fail" the check. Then as the strike ends the dagger would fly back in the hand of the user, becoming a melee weapon again and thus the requirement would again be met for the second strike.
So, if the requirement must be met for the whole duration then you wouldn't be able to strike again in the first case and you wouldn't be able to throw the weapon in the second case, but if this weren't the case and the condition must be met only at the start you would be to make the second strike and use a thrown weapon.
I think this falls under "this is a TTRPG rather than a video game".
There isn't some rule stating how the "Requirements" section of feat works, so it is well and truly up to the GM. The rules for requirements say: "Sometimes you must have a certain item or be in a certain circumstance to use an ability."
In the case of Twin Takedown, I certainly wouldn't expect to be able to use a melee weapon ability to make thrown attacks, but some GMs would probably let it slide if you talked to them up front. There isn't going to be one definitely-correct answer on how to run requirements edge cases.
| YuriP |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
These edge cases need to be ruled by GM based on the situation.
The main rules cannot cover every edge case in the game, so depends on from the GM to adjugate such things.
Personally in this case of someone lose the secondary weapon do some kind of reaction that was able to fully disarm via reaction I would say that this disrupts the second Strike.
About the usage of Twin Takedown with melee weapons with thrown trait, I simply don't allow using them with Twin Takedown once IMO the feats is clearly made to not be used with ranged attacks. The usage o thrown trait to workaround this is just a don't wanted workaround that takes advantage from 2 rules that probably aren't just wasn't consider working together.
If the player wants to throw 2 weapons so it can take the Dual-Weapon Warrior archetype instead.
| Finoan |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A reaction that disarms is a cute hypothetical situation. But I don't feel like that is the purpose of the question. In the hypothetical, I would probably rule that it only disrupts Twin Takedown if the disarming ability says that it Disrupts. Ask again once we actually have an actual ability to look at.
For Twin Takedown with thrown weapons, I would extrapolate from the clarification on intrinsic properties and as-used properties of items and requirements.
For abilities that count the number of hands for a weapon while you're using it, such as an action with "Requirements You are wielding a one-handed melee weapon," count the actual number of hands you're using at the time.
Twin Takedown is requiring melee weapons. Using a melee weapon with the thrown trait to make a ranged Strike means that you are using a ranged weapon. I wouldn't allow it.
| graystone |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What if instead the user had two daggers with a returning rune on each? It would meet the requirement at the start (and also doesn't specify whether the strike is melee or ranged) but as soon as the first strike is made the thrown weapon would become ranged and "fail" the check. Then as the strike ends the dagger would fly back in the hand of the user, becoming a melee weapon again and thus the requirement would again be met for the second strike.
The easy way to make sure there aren't any issues is to wear free hand weapons: if you wear gauntlets then throw daggers or get disarmed, you'll always have a weapon in hand.
About the usage of Twin Takedown with melee weapons with thrown trait, I simply don't allow using them with Twin Takedown once IMO the feats is clearly made to not be used with ranged attacks. The usage o thrown trait to workaround this is just a don't wanted workaround that takes advantage from 2 rules that probably aren't just wasn't consider working together.
This is a grey area. While requiring melee weapons implies melee Strikes, it departs from other similar feats like Double Slice, that are explicit is requiring a melee weapon for the strike. It most likely isn't intended, but I don't see any issue allowing it, since thrown builds can always use some help and it's not overpowering anything. Requiring Dual-Weapon Warrior just for a dual throw ability on a ranger just seems a bit mean.
| Tridus |
Yeah, these are case by case. If someone was using Twin Takedown and got disarmed halfway through it (I know of one very annoying creature that can do this, it disarmed our Fighter of three swords in one fight), I'd not have that disrupt the action. When you took the action it was valid, and something happened out of your control halfway through to change that. Carry on. You'd have to get another weapon in that hand to do it next turn, though.
Thrown weapon case? Eh, I'd have to think about it since it's clearly a melee intended ability and this is getting around that.